Red Double Baccarat

I had been contacted a while back by a game developer from Australia who has a very interesting Baccarat variant that is working its way to market. I believe it is live overseas, but do not have much of any info to share on that.

The game is called Red Double Baccarat. In a nutshell the game of regular Bacc stays the same, but after the Player and Banker receive their initial 2 cards, players have the option of placing a Dragon Player or Dragon Banker wager, which pay specific odds depending upon the strength of both starting hands, which are displayed on the table sign immediately following the initial deal.

Aside from to % unit payouts, which can be resolved by any Tito type system or electronic table, it’s seems like a very promising/innovative concept.

Does anyone have any thoughts or comments?

Red Double Website

I always feel those games where the cards are exposed never turn out as well as they sound. It appears it's not a total face up game, but being able to wager after seeing cards is the same concept. You give the player the "advantage" of knowing what's out there. But the casual player will bet once when there's a 7-0 option to find out they won 15cents to the dollar and never play again.

AGS had a some type of face up baccarat title that never panned out, Deal & Reveal from Shuffle is nothing, Double Exposure/Face Up BJ was popular for a bit and now you rarely see it, and a few more.

Maybe that Face Up Pai Gow game from Shuffle can create some noise, but other than that, these games don't seem to stick. They sound so good, but don't go very far.

Also, that paytable makes my head hurt. Way too large for the common gambler.

Pass for me.

Quote: SM777

I always feel those games where the cards are exposed never turn out as well as they sound. It appears it's not a total face up game, but being able to wager after seeing cards is the same concept. You give the player the "advantage" of knowing what's out there. But the casual player will bet once when there's a 7-0 option to find out they won 15cents to the dollar and never play again.

AGS had a some type of face up baccarat title that never panned out, Deal & Reveal from Shuffle is nothing, Double Exposure/Face Up BJ was popular for a bit and now you rarely see it, and a few more.

Maybe that Face Up Pai Gow game from Shuffle can create some noise, but other than that, these games don't seem to stick. They sound so good, but don't go very far.

Also, that paytable makes my head hurt. Way too large for the common gambler.

Pass for me.

That’s all definitely fair.

I think Face Up PG from shuffle will do pretty well. Players appear to be pretty fond of the open dealer hand mechanism, at least so far in the early stages. I think I recall 7up PG had debuted about a year ago in CA (don’t quote me on that however).

One little point about the pay table... Players never see the entire pay table at one time, as the specific Player Dragon and Banker dragon odds for the hand in progress are the only odds visible to the players each hand (the table sign displays the odds each hand, thanks to programmed card reading shoe). I do happen to agree with that 15c to the dollar payout statement. I believe the developer is also developing more live table friendly pay tables. But I don’t have much of any insight into those.

Definitely an interesting/different concept, we shall see how it works out for them.

Quote: mrsuit31

That’s all definitely fair.

I think Face Up PG from shuffle will do pretty well. Players appear to be pretty fond of the open dealer hand mechanism, at least so far in the early stages. I think I recall 7up PG had debuted about a year ago in CA (don’t quote me on that however).

One little point about the pay table... Players never see the entire pay table at one time, as the specific Player Dragon and Banker dragon odds for the hand in progress are the only odds visible to the players each hand (the table sign displays the odds each hand, thanks to programmed card reading shoe). I do happen to agree with that 15c to the dollar payout statement. I believe the developer is also developing more live table friendly pay tables. But I don’t have much of any insight into those.

Definitely an interesting/different concept, we shall see how it works out for them.

I think you're almost better off not even offering that bet on hands that will only pay 15cents to the dollar. It will ruin the game the first time a casual player plays it. They'll never return to that table. They don't grasp the concept of odds and probability.

Quote: SM777

AGS had a some type of face up baccarat title that never panned out...

Which game is this? Do you have its name?

Quote: UCivan

Which game is this? Do you have its name?

No. It no longer shows up on their website either. I searched for it, but couldn't find it.

They may have had to eliminate it once they signed the deal with Dai Bac. Not sure.

Quote: SM777

No. It no longer shows up on their website either. I searched for it, but couldn't find it.

They may have had to eliminate it once they signed the deal with Dai Bac. Not sure.

Do you recall how it worked? It's hard to imagine playing baccarat face-up.

Also, is "Face Up Pai Gow" from Shuffle the same as "7 Up Pai Gow"? "7 Up PG" is popular at Thunder Valley Casino, CA. It was invented by a floor manager at Thunder.

Quote: UCivan

Do you recall how it worked? It's hard to imagine playing baccarat face-up.

Also, is "Face Up Pai Gow" from Shuffle the same as "7 Up Pai Gow"? "7 Up PG" is popular at Thunder Valley Casino, CA. It was invented by a floor manager at Thunder.

I don't recall how it worked. I would guess it is similar to this, where you see cards and can then bet, or see one card and then bet with a push mechanism. Whatever it was, it just didn't work.

Same game from visiting the booth at G2E. They bought it from Thunder Valley's creator.

Just to specify one thing for Red Double. The standard game of bacc is in play (although the player is not required to place a standard Player or Banker wager to play the second Red Double Sragon round of betting, IIRC). Players can simply play standard Player vs Banker Bacc, then have the optional second Red Double round of betting.

It's a side bet parlayed to the main bet, similar to House Money to Blackjack.