new game Double Blackjack goes live GVR

Charlie,
Here on this, I have got to say that seeing a two or three-card blackjack hand is so natural and utterly instinctual to a gazillion gamblers, that it is easier, I think, as BJ scoring and seeing to the gambler's eye is easier than picture-counting, which is a new gimmick. On Picture Perfect, picture-counting with a new deck is or may be tougher than flush-counting, which is already a part of the gambler's repertoire. In this regard, Geoff Hall has been wonderful as a straight-up Blackjack visionary.

Not that we can expect compete, aside from to show something here, and that is new, and that may or may not catch on.

In terms of Game Eye, Double Blackjack is also a "can't miss it it either" kind of game thing or basic mechanism....A two-card BJ hand? A three-card BJ hand? Really EASY to see, with a little thought on strategy in a new way.

THAT was a big propulsion idea or humdinger here for this very game. A bit of strategy to form it all, but that too, was the little bit of added juice. IMO. We do not know yet.

I like it, and I did it with Al, and the game seems to be holding on very well at Green Valley Ranch so far, but we still don't know yet. A week in, the field trial seems to be going well. Not as strong as Poker with a Joker, but going forward, - may be a sleeper. ....Will get numbers mid next week.

The thing about new games is that an experienced guy can spot a poor casino game, but absolutely no one can draw the line on what makes a great new game click at all, aside from "not too bad here."

Best I can say is that we made it to Green Valley Ranch, and that we have a good chance one week into the field trial.



Picture Perfect is also easy as pie, - which is a GREAT thing to have in a gambling game. But close to High Card Flush in a picture versus flush sense, and the flush eye mechanism is already known and instinctual to card players. I will say that Geoff Hall's Blackjack stuff is utterly amazing, and there he is King, to use a picture here.

People come to play at games, not to work, which is good for games with an honest and simple strategy, which was the tougher issue with Double Draw and Lunar Poker that too "fancy," I feel.

I think the common "Blackjack Eye" will help for this game, I hope so. We're waiting it out.

Quote: Paigowdan

the game seems to be holding on very well at Green Valley Ranch so far, but we still don't know yet. A week in, the field trial seems to be going well. Will get numbers mid next week.

Hi Paigowdan,
Good luck with your Double Blackjack.

This scares me...

Quote: MrCasinoGames

Hi Paigowdan,
Good luck with your Double Blackjack [game].

Awwww...Steven......Thanks, You cannot say anything else at all.
New game, new field trial.......Shoot......I'm scared again for the last time.....

No one can make a prediction about your game prior to three years out from the field trial, aside from what they'd like to see about your game, and thankfully, that's seldom said. Who the hell knows.

Being a Game Designer is a lot like being a parent, - It's kind of like what a parent tells his child at a much older age, although loving him all along: "I really didn't know if you'd get it together and be successful until you were about 43 years old, and had raised the grandkid right, and had divorced that witch....I did not know if you'd be a millionaire or be dead until you were even 39. I had a pulse on it, though." Same with a casino game after the field trial....It's like betting on BASEBALL...

ACTUALLY, THE FIELD TRAIL IS TWO FIELD TRIALS, - THE SECOND ONE WHERE THE CASINO ACTUALLY KEEPS YOUR GAME. Then....the real game begins....

Many - most - successful casino games languish at five to 25 games for two years, then either explode to 80 or more installs or die and disappear. The designer hasn't a clue. The exception to this rule is Galaxy Gaming's Texas Shoot Out [a fine poker game], which remained steady at 25 games for 15 years, refusing to either die, or to become a Hit. I called it at Galaxy "The Career Buck Sergeant." Deserves better.

Three Card Poker took about three or four years to get 100 installs, after a measles-infected childhood, and nine years got to one thousand, now at 1,500 installs and holding steady as a permanent casino game staple....EZ Pai Gow took three years for 30, and four for 100 and it stays there....Crazy-4-poker and Four Card poker stuck at 200 each....a great game gets to 50 installs and pays your bills, wondering what is next two years out. SIX years out, you're okay.

Casino games have slower childhoods than humans...almost ALL good games are extremely late starters, but they either explode in success or die many years out. The trick is to maintain 25 installs through two years and keep your daytime job. I dealt craps after being a computer programmer.

...I do not know what Double Blackjack will do for Al and I six months out, two years out, or ten years out. Absolutely NO clue.

I KNOW the game is not bad, but that means very little. Shoot, a field trial at Green Valley Ranch in Vegas, and I am scared....Game designers have a great pulse on a bad game, but zero indication on a hopeful game four months out. You cannot call a Presidential election after November 8th every the fourth year, and making an early call is ridiculous. [Good for books, though....]

Double Blackjack - I absolutely love it as an alternative Blackjack game. Cannot make a prediction at all, regardless of involvement.

Quote: Paigowdan

No one can make a prediction about your game prior to three years out from the field trial, aside from what they'd like to see about your game, and thankfully, that's seldom said. Who the hell knows.

Being a Game Designer is a lot like being a parent, - It's kind of like what a parent tells his child at a much older age, although loving him all along: "I really didn't know if you'd get it together and be successful until you were about 43 years old, and had raised the grandkid right, and had divorced that witch....I did not know if you'd be a millionaire or be dead until you were even 39. I had a pulse on it, though." Same with a casino game after the field trial....It's like betting on BASEBALL...

You are absolutely right: No one can make a prediction about new games prior to three years out from the field trial.

Quote: MrCasinoGames

You are absolutely right: No one can make a prediction about new games prior to three years out from the field trial.

You can get scared on how the new game babies are going to do. A more difficult world every new day now.

Here's my best basic strategy so far - it has a house edge of 1.302%

The higher the number, the better the play (so. for example, 3-card 20 and 2-card 17, with a value of 20, is a better play than 3-card 17 and 2-card 20, with a value of 19)

3-Card	2-Card: Bust	17	18	19	20	21
Bust	0	3	6	7	12	16
17	1	9	11	13	19	24
18	2	10	15	17	22	28
19	4	14	18	21	26	30
20	5	20	23	27	31	33
21	8	25	29	32	34	35

Sorry about the formatting, but there doesn't seem to be a way to span cells across multiple columns

Correction to the table:

3-Card	2-Card: Bust	17	18	19	20	21
Bust	0	4	6	7	12	16
17	1	9	11	13	19	24
18	2	10	15	17	22	28
19	3	14	18	21	26	30
20	5	20	23	27	31	33
21	8	25	29	32	34	35

This is the strategy with the 1.302% house edge.

Looking at the other eight "basic strategies" that do not have exceptions (in each case, one choice or the other is made for all hands that have both):
19/17 ahead of 18/18: 1.306%
20/18 ahead of 17/21: 1.307%
19/20 ahead of 20/19: 1.308%
17/20 ahead of 20/17: 1.308%
19/18 ahead of 17/20: 1.318%
18/20 ahead of 20/18: 1.319%
19/Bust ahead of Bust/17 (the strategy on the earlier table): 1.323%
20/Bust ahead of Bust/18: 1.377%

Quote: charliepatrick

Here is a fairly simple strategy - House Edge = 3.267%.

(A) Find the value of the highest hand that leaves you with two valid hands;
-- (i) If you have a choice (e.g. 21-19 or 19-21) make the best 3-card hand.

(B) Check whether to play one really good hand, also sometimes instead of playing two average ones;
-- (i) Make 2-card 21 and bust the 3-card hand, also if you cannot better 19+other;
-- (ii) Make 2-card 20, otherwise 3-card 21, also if you cannot better 18+other.

(C) With one valid hand, unless (B) applies, make best 2-card hand rather than a 3-card hand;
-- (i) Exception make 3-card 20 rather than 2-card 17.

This only costs .146% in errors.
You need to add the last exception as this saves .24%.

I finally made it out to the GVR today to see Dan's game. I'm already in the process of writing a page on it. Regarding the post above, two questions:

1. May I quote this on my site?
2. In your house edge figures you seem to be thinking of the variation with no bonus for two 21-point hands. Is this correct? The version at the GVR pays a bonus of 1 to 2 on each wager for two player 21-point hands, win or draw.

Thanks!

Quote: Wizard

Quote: charliepatrick

Here is a fairly simple strategy - House Edge = 3.267%.

(A) Find the value of the highest hand that leaves you with two valid hands;
-- (i) If you have a choice (e.g. 21-19 or 19-21) make the best 3-card hand.

(B) Check whether to play one really good hand, also sometimes instead of playing two average ones;
-- (i) Make 2-card 21 and bust the 3-card hand, also if you cannot better 19+other;
-- (ii) Make 2-card 20, otherwise 3-card 21, also if you cannot better 18+other.

(C) With one valid hand, unless (B) applies, make best 2-card hand rather than a 3-card hand;
-- (i) Exception make 3-card 20 rather than 2-card 17.

This only costs .146% in errors.
You need to add the last exception as this saves .24%.

I finally made it out to the GVR today to see Dan's game. I'm already in the process of writing a page on it. Regarding the post above, two questions:

1. May I quote this on my site?
2. In your house edge figures you seem to be thinking of the variation with no bonus for two 21-point hands. Is this correct? The version at the GVR pays a bonus of 1 to 2 on each wager for two player 21-point hands, win or draw.

Thanks!

Hi, Wizard, what criteria do u use to decide puting s new gsme on WOO or not nowadays? Didn't u use to have 2 placements requirements when you owned the site? I could be wrong. But this is a new game under field trial. So you think it would be approved?? Per gaming control board, trial ends on 1-1-2016.

Love WOO.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: charliepatrick

Here is a fairly simple strategy - House Edge = 3.267%.

(A) Find the value of the highest hand that leaves you with two valid hands;
-- (i) If you have a choice (e.g. 21-19 or 19-21) make the best 3-card hand.

(B) Check whether to play one really good hand, also sometimes instead of playing two average ones;
-- (i) Make 2-card 21 and bust the 3-card hand, also if you cannot better 19+other;
-- (ii) Make 2-card 20, otherwise 3-card 21, also if you cannot better 18+other.

(C) With one valid hand, unless (B) applies, make best 2-card hand rather than a 3-card hand;
-- (i) Exception make 3-card 20 rather than 2-card 17.

This only costs .146% in errors.
You need to add the last exception as this saves .24%.

I finally made it out to the GVR today to see Dan's game. I'm already in the process of writing a page on it. Regarding the post above, two questions:

1. May I quote this on my site?
2. In your house edge figures you seem to be thinking of the variation with no bonus for two 21-point hands. Is this correct? The version at the GVR pays a bonus of 1 to 2 on each wager for two player 21-point hands, win or draw.

Thanks!

Dan and Dr. Al's game. A family effort. Al's germ of a game concept. And a thank you to Mike for coming on down.
And Charlie's work is very fine and informative. I'm not certain if the strategy should be a chart-based thing or a four-sentence description, but CP's description is very fine.
I regret not having a strategy offering on the Rack card. Original thinking was that BJ hands were so easy to see it was not necessary, and that it is not a common practice.
We now think it is. I will say it is always a pro-player thing to have on the rack card.

Quote: charliepatrick

Here is a fairly simple strategy - House Edge = 3.267%.

(A) Find the value of the highest hand that leaves you with two valid hands;
-- (i) If you have a choice (e.g. 21-19 or 19-21) make the best 3-card hand.

(B) Check whether to play one really good hand, also sometimes instead of playing two average ones;
-- (i) Make 2-card 21 and bust the 3-card hand, also if you cannot better 19+other;
-- (ii) Make 2-card 20, otherwise 3-card 21, also if you cannot better 18+other.

(C) With one valid hand, unless (B) applies, make best 2-card hand rather than a 3-card hand;
-- (i) Exception make 3-card 20 rather than 2-card 17.

This is outstanding work, which I'd like to quote on my site. However, it is a bit too cryptic and abbreviated for my style. Would you agree this is an accurate rewording:

1. If you can make two valid hands (17-21 points), then separate the cards in such a way to maximize the Three-Card hand.
   
2. If following rule 1 results in a higher hand of 19, and it is possible to play a 21 in the Two-Card hand and a bust in the Three-Card hand, then do that.
   
3. If following rule 1 results in a higher hand of 18, and it is possible to play a 20 in the Two-Card hand and a bust in the Three-Card hand, then do that.
   
4. If following rule 1 results in a higher hand of 18, and it is possible to play a 21 in the Three-Card hand and a bust in the Two-Card hand, then do that.
   
5. If only one valid hand can be made, then maximize the Two-Card hand.
   
6. As an exception to rule 5, play a Three-Card 20 over a 2-card 17.
   

Following your strategy, how would you play 2-2-4-7-10 and why?

Quote: RoyalBJ

Hi, Wizard, what criteria do u use to decide puting s new gsme on WOO or not nowadays? Didn't u use to have 2 placements requirements when you owned the site? I could be wrong. But this is a new game under field trial. So you think it would be approved?? Per gaming control board, trial ends on 1-1-2016.

Love WOO.

Thanks! I look at a lot of different things. In the case of Double Blackjack, Dan buttered me up with a free lunch, which put him at the front of the line.

Quote: Paigowdan

I regret not having a strategy offering on the Rack card. Original thinking was that BJ hands were so easy to see it was not necessary, and that it is not a common practice.
We now think it is. I will say it is always a pro-player thing to have on the rack card.

Agree Dan, but will also say you still need players to read the strategy info. Lucky & I have the strategy chart on back of Half Back Blackjack cards, but not a lot of players are reading it, or so their play illustrates.

Lucky just put together a "Four Sentence Basic Strategy" section on the front of our new rack card with a reference to full strategy on the back. I think this is the best answer. You will get more players to read a few sentences on the front of the rack card than figure out a lengthy full strategy chart on the back. I learn new insights every day in this biz!

Quote: Wizard

1. If you can make two valid hands (17-21 points), then separate the cards in such a way to maximize the Three-Card hand.
   
2. If following rule 1 results in a higher hand of 19, and it is possible to play a 21 in the Two-Card hand and a bust in the Three-Card hand, then do that.
   
3. If following rule 1 results in a higher hand of 18, and it is possible to play a 20 in the Two-Card hand and a bust in the Three-Card hand, then do that.
   
4. If following rule 1 results in a higher hand of 18, and it is possible to play a 21 in the Three-Card hand and a bust in the Two-Card hand, then do that.
   
5. If only one valid hand can be made, then maximize the Two-Card hand, unless the possible three-card is 21 where the two-card is 19 or less.
   
6. As an exception to rule 5, play a Three-Card 20 over a 2-card 17.
   

Following your strategy, how would you play 2-2-4-7-10 and why?

Mike, I added a clause in #5, which may need to go into #6. (Play as 4-7-10/2-2).

Quote: Wizard

Thanks! I look at a lot of different things. In the case of Double Blackjack, Dan buttered me up with a free lunch, which put him at the front of the line.

Tender morsels of delicious seafood at Tides of Green Valley Ranch. The plug for GVR was nessa.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: charliepatrick

Here is a fairly simple strategy - House Edge = 3.267%....

...
1. May I quote this on my site?...house edge...with no bonus for two 21-point hands....

Thanks and I did ignore any bonus. I accept it does seem cryptic (for instance if you cannot "better 19+" includes only making one hand) as I was trying to keep it very short.

One possible way is to go the other way, start with the one-hand options (since it seems you need to have both exceptions (i) 3-c 21>2-c 17-19 (ii) 3-c 20>2-c 17 ) and then look at two valid hands second.

(A) If you can only make one valid hand usually maximise the 2-card hand, subject to the following exceptions:
(i) Make a 3-card 21 rather than 2-card 17-19;
(ii) Make a 3-card 20 rather than a 2-card 17.

(B) If you can make two valid hands, determine the value of the highest hand, if you have a choice (e.g. 21-19 or 19-21) select the best 3-card hand. Play two hands subject to the following exceptions;
(i) If the value of your highest hand is 19 or less and you could make a 2-card 21 (while busting the other hand) then play the 2-card 21.
(ii) Similarly play a 2-card 20 if the value of your highest hand is 18 or less.
(iii) Similarly play a 3-card 21 If the value of your highest hand is 18 or less.

However I'm happy with whatever wording you decide is clearer to someone new to the game and covers all the bases.

Quote: charliepatrick

(C) With one valid hand, unless (B) applies, make best 2-card hand rather than a 3-card hand;
-- (i) Exception make 3-card 20 rather than 2-card 17.

Quote: charliepatrick

(B) If you can make two valid hands, determine the value of the highest hand, if you have a choice (e.g. 21-19 or 19-21) select the best 3-card hand. Play two hands subject to the following exceptions;
(i) If the value of your highest hand is 19 or less and you could make a 2-card 21 (while busting the other hand) then play the 2-card 21.
(ii) Similarly play a 2-card 20 if the value of your highest hand is 18 or less.
(iii) Similarly play a 3-card 21 If the value of your highest hand is 18 or less.

Thanks, I like the second wording better. However, it doesn't seem to include the 3-card 20 exception as found in your original strategy. Can you comment on that? In other words, did the original strategy omit the case of a 3-card 21 vs. 18 or less, or where it says 20 was it supposed to say 21?

Quote: Paigowdan

Tender morsels of delicious seafood at Tides of Green Valley Ranch. The plug for GVR was nessa.

Hmmm... Sounds like the same item you ordered when we went there on 11/14.

For the record, that seafood place also has a really good steak!

I invite everybody to visit my new page on Double Blackjack. As always, I welcome questions, comments, suggestions, and especially corrections.

" A three-card BJ hand? Really EASY to see, with a little thought on strategy in a new way. " That is the main hurdle as I see it.
Heading out the door, will comment more in detail later.
You have been warned. As I told you once before , Dan. Good Luck is when Hard Work Meets Opportunity. So I wish you
GOOD OPPORTUNITY !

Quote: Wizard

I invite everybody to visit my new page on Double Blackjack. As always, I welcome questions, comments, suggestions, and especially corrections.

Mike,
The page on Double Blackjack looks very good.
I do have two changes to request:
1. #8 in Rules says “The player's Two-Card hand shall be compared to the dealer's Two-Card hand. [then it reiterates the same thing] Likewise, the player's Two-Card hand shall be compared to the dealer's Two-Card hand. [second clause should say Three-card hand….]
2. Game inventors must include Al Lwin, the game’s co-developer (and financier, and all-around wonderful soul if you know the guy). So the bottom should read:

I would like to thank:
• Dan Lubin and Al Lwin, the game inventors, for supplying to me the math report by Stephen How. This saved me the time from analyzing it myself.
• Charlie Patrick, for the use of his strategy above.

Thanks Dan for those corrections.

Quote: Wizard

...new page on Double Blackjack...

The page looks good. I don't know whether you need to imply "Make 2-card 20, otherwise 3-card 21" for the exception rule for two 18- hands.

Here's another "simple" strategy, although I haven't worked out the house edge yet;

First, add up the values of the five cards, always counting Aces as 1 (even if one or two will end up being used as 11).
Next, look in the column with that number on the top, and go down until you can make a 2-card hand with that value; set the 2-card hand to that number.
For example, with KK754, that is 36, so look down the 36 column; you can't set a 2-card 21 or 18, but you can set a 2-card 17, so set the hand to K54/K7.

Numbers in green indicate that the 3-card hand is 16 or less
Numbers in red indicate that the 3-card hand is 22 or more
In the <34 column, if "3/" appears in a box, set the 3-card hand to that number instead of the 2-card hand

<34	34	35	36	37	38	39	40	41	42	>42
21	21	21	21	17	17	18	19	20	21	21
20	20	20	18	20	21	21	20	21	20	20
3/21	17	18	17	18	18	19	21	19	19	19
19	13	17	19	19	20	20	18	18	18	18
18	19	14	20	21	19	17	17	17	17	17
3/20	18	19	15	16
17	14	15	16
3/19	15	16
3/18	16
3/17

Don,
I like.
Still, what we did do at this point is create a 7x7 grid (all combo's of 17 to 21 + foul) as a Basic Strategy Chart for the game on one side of a strategy card, and a four-sentence plain English on the other side. Use the look-up chart to get the best hand setting result, or follow the plain English strategy, to set the hand.

We will print up strategy cards, to make available to the players the strategy.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Here's another "simple" strategy, although I haven't worked out the house edge yet

The House Edge is 1.4819% - if you make the following change:
If the total with Aces = 1 is between 24 and 33 and you have at least one Ace, add 10
If the total with Aces = 1 is 23 or less and you have at least two Aces, add 20

Without this "fix", you get a situation like A K 8 4 4, where if the Ace = 1, this is 27, so set 8 4 4 / A K, but if the Ace = 11, this is 37, so set A 4 4 / K 8.

Pardon the bump...

Is this game still at GVR? How about other Vegas casinos? I'm working on my itinerary for a Vegas trip in late June, and have to sync up the bus schedules...

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Pardon the bump...

Is this game still at GVR? How about other Vegas casinos? I'm working on my itinerary for a Vegas trip in late June, and have to sync up the bus schedules...

Yes. It passed its field trial (see Nevada Gaming rules Double Blackjack), and is at GVR opposite Poker with a Joker (aka Wild 5 Poker).

GVR is happier with Poker with a Joker as it gets tremendous action, but Double Blackjack is hanging in there.

Well, I just discovered this thread and I must say that this sounds like a fun game. I'll search it out on my next trip to Vegas.