Games @ The Cutting Edge Table Games Conference

As the other thread has been a bit derailed on the "Tito or not to Tito" debate, I thought I would start a new thread dedicated to providing overviews of some of the games at the CETGC....why not start with the Gold Award Winner: Texas Switch

Texas Switch, as the name implies, is a Texas Hold'em variant played against the dealer in the same vein as Ultimate Texas Hold'em/Heads Up Hold'em/Texas Bonus Hold'em. It actually most closely resembles Texas Bonus Hold'em as there are multiple opportunities to bet and check as the community cards are revealed. Unlike UTH or HUH where once you make a decision to bet and are done, Texas Switch allows the player to add bets after their hole cards are delivered and two additional times during the hand.

Here is the summary of betting and hand play as I recall:

1) Players start by making equal Ante and Switch wagers and are delivered two hole cards
2) If a player does not like their original hole cards, they may toss them back and get two new hole cards while simultaneously forfeiting their Switch bet.
3) If a player does not elect to Switch, their Switch bet remains in play and will lose on player hands losing to the dealer and push on player hands beating the dealer.
4) After being satisfied with their two hole cards, a player may check or bet up to 2X their Ante prior to seeing the first 2 of 5 community cards.
5) Two of the 5 community cards are revealed and the player has the option to check or bet 1X their Ante
6) The third community card is revealed and now the player must bet 1X their Ante or Fold and lose all their previous bets in action.
7) The final two community cards are revealed and the dealer reveals their two hole cards and determines the dealer's best 5 card poker hand. The dealer's hand always qualifies.
8) Then the players hands are revealed and compared to the dealer's hand. I believe all wagers in play, except the Switch bet, are paid even money on wins. As mentioned above, the Switch bet pushes on player wins and loses on player losses.
9) There is also a Bonus Bet that can be made at the beginning of the hand that pays according to a pay table on the player's hand. Unfortunately I didn't take a pic of the pay table.

I thought the game was good and obviously the attendees did as well voting it in the top spot in the competition. I met the developer at the table, David Nizgoda, who was also involved in the development of War Blackjack.

Please feel free to correct anything I have misstated above, but I think I got it right. I have to admit, I didn't get to very many of the other games on the floor as Lucky and I were busy in our own booth. Hopefully others will post summaries of some of the other independent games on the floor...DJ, this means you!

As far as the big boys were concerned, Galaxy had all of the same games they had at G2E, SHFL/Sci. Games had Zappit Blackjack and Flushes Gone Wild (both at G2D) and AGS had a new flush game variant called "Must Flush" (I didn't care for the name much) and a Texas Hold'em variant. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to play the AGS games, so perhaps someone else can summarize those two.

Quote: Paradigm

I thought I would start a new thread dedicated to providing overviews of some of the games at the CETGC....why not start with the Gold Award Winner: Texas Switch.

I played about 3 games at the conference this year. One of them was Texas Switch. I liked the game and thought it was a strong idea. I discussed the operational mechanism of the Switch bet with them, which was awkward at best.

Of course, as you might guess, I recommended a name change. This game needs Poker, Stud, Hold'em or something similar to give the game type in its name. "Texas Switch" could mean just about anything.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Texas+Switch

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Texas+Switcharoo

Quote: Paradigm

Texas Switch, as the name implies, is a Texas Hold'em variant played against the dealer in the same vein as Ultimate Texas Hold'em/Heads Up Hold'em/Texas Bonus Hold'em.

Hi Paradigm,

You forgot my game Casino Hold'em®, the First Texas Hold'em against the Casino ©2000.
Now the Number-1 On-line Poker game.
90% of On-line Casinos useing it today.

(On-Line Distributors: Playtech, Microgaming, NetEnt, Evolution Gaming, GTECH G2, RTG, Bovada and others).

(On-line Casinos: Poker Stars, 888, William Hill, Full Tilt, Party Casino, Bet365, Paddy Power, Mansion, Sporting Bet, Bwin, Betfair, Betfred, Unibet, Bodog, Bovada and others).

Of course Stephen, the list was not meant to be all inclusive. In looking back I really should have just said it was like Texas Hold'em Bonus as that is the only other Hold'em variant that allows multiple betting opportunities throughout the hand....I think :-).

Quote: Paradigm

Of course Stephen, the list was not meant to be all inclusive. In looking back I really should have just said it was like Texas Hold'em Bonus as that is the only other Hold'em variant that allows multiple betting opportunities throughout the hand....I think :-).

Hi Paradigm,

To me they are all Texas Hold'em against the Casino (House).

Not only I have the First successful Texas Hold'em against the Casino ©2000.

I also Own the Patents for Texas Hold'em against the Casino (House) in the US and other Countries.

US Patents: 6,206,373 & 6,637,747

Quote: MrCasinoGames

Hi Paradigm,

To me they are all Texas Hold'em against the Casino (House).

Not only I have the First successful Texas Hold'em against the Casino ©2000.

I also Own the Patents for Texas Hold'em against the Casino (House) in the US and other Countries.

US Patents: 6,206,373 & 6,637,747

So did Galaxy Gaming lease your IP? They've had Texas Shootout since 2000 I believe. That's been my top game (aside from Blackjack) for 5 years.

Are you saying every poker table games against the house goes through your patent?


ZCore13

I am saying, I Own this two US Patents: 6,206,373 and 6,637,747

When I say they are all Texas Hold'em against the Casino (House), I mean the once that Paradigm mentioned at the beginning of this post.

Ok. I just read them. You do not hold the patents for Texas Holdem against the house. You hold patents for 2 specific variations of Texas Holdem against the house where the dealer shows one of his/her cards as an up card.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand before it was derailed... I found Texas Switch to be interesting, but very similar to Texas Shootout. In Texas Switch you have to place 2 primary bets. If you don't like the first two cards you get you have already pre-paid for the discard and receipt of 2 new cards. In Texas Shootout you place one main bet and receive 4 cards and choose which 2 of the 4 cards you want to keep to play against the house.

If I did not already have Texas Shootout and it didn't already perform great for me, I would probably have been a little more excited about it.

ZCore13

It would have been nice to meet you. I met Harry and overall, did not spend much time on the floor. You may have seen my earlier post today giving the video demo overview on our game. "Royal Deal Poker". We finished somewhere in the middle of the pack which was a bit deflating but nonetheless productive and necessary. Our game is quick and will work well for casinos who are concerned about hands played per hour etc. If you want to view the recent demo it's at TG Science.

http://tgscience.com/royal-deal-poker/

Thanks Paradigm and much success.

Hi ZCore13,

Thanks for reading the patents.

In one of the embodiment, Both the Dealer's cards are deal face down.

Quote: Paradigm

4) After being satisfied with their two hole cards, a player may check or bet up to 2X their Ante prior to seeing the first 2 of 5 community cards.
5) Two of the 5 community cards are revealed and the player has the option to check or bet 1X their Ante
6) The third community card is revealed and now the player must bet 1X their Ante or Fold and lose all their previous bets in action.

This seems like a strange feature of the game. Why would anyone bet after seeing 2 cards instead of checking, they can bet the same amount later with more information. Am I missing something? Are the bets cumulative or is it like Ultimate Texas Hold-em where you can only bet once?

Yes, the bets are cumulative, sorry if I didn't make that clear. This is why it is more like Texas Hold'em Bonus than UTH/HUH.

So if you check at one point in the hand, you have lost the opportunity to get those units in play. Each betting stage has its own betting circle, three in a row in front of the player.

If you max bet at every opportunity you would have Ante/2X/1X/1X or 5 units in action plus the Switch bet (if you hadn't used it earlier in the hand to Switch hole cards). Of course the Switch bet only pushes on wins and loses on losses.

If you min bet but wanted to stay in the hand you would have Ante/Check/Check/1X or just 2 units in action plus the Switch bet above.

Quote: mikeabiomed

It would have been nice to meet you. I met Harry and overall, did not spend much time on the floor.

Yes, I wanted to meet you and Flip21, but it became a bit of a busy three days for me as I had some non-conference business I was forced to handle during the show as well.

In previous shows, I managed to get to a lot of the booths. At this show it was Texas Switch (as they were next door to ours), Nanoteck as I have wanted to try out the pinball/Vegas 2047 since 2014 G2E, and that was pretty much it.

Quote: Paradigm

Yes, I wanted to meet you and Flip21, but it became a bit of a busy three days for me as I had some non-conference business I was forced to handle during the show as well.

In previous shows, I managed to get to a lot of the booths. At this show it was Texas Switch (as they were next door to ours), Nanoteck as I have wanted to try out the pinball/Vegas 2047 since 2014 G2E, and that was pretty much it.

Strange that you stayed around your booth so much more this year with your new dealer... :-)


ZCore13

Ha Ha.....Lucky and I actually had Angela deal for us in 2013 when we exhibited Mulligan 21 as well. We let Wayne borrow her last year for 4 Card Split when I helped him in that booth ;-).

Angela is the best there is in my opinion, she is attractive, engaging and can explain games well given the right details on what to emphasize in the game play. She quickly absorbs what a new game is all about and translates that to an engaging experience, beyond just her looks, when attendees are at your table.

I am not inclined to toot our own horn but it is time for the Silver Award winner and Lucky and I won the Silver Award with "Half Back Blackjack". So here is a summary:

Half Black Blackjack is a blackjack variant game in the vein of Switch BJ, Free Bet BJ and Spanish 21. That is a blackjack game where the underlying rules of the main bet are altered. Here are the specific rules:

1) Players start each hand by making two equal mandatory wagers: A Main wager & a Half Back wager.
2) The dealer deals each player the normal initial two card hand and two cards to themselves, one up card and one down card.
3) After the initial deal, the player has various options which I will detail below, but prior to exercising those player options, the dealer is required to replace their initial up card if it is a 3 - 6 with the next card in the shoe. This is a one and done replacement rule as the dealer must use the replacement card regardless of its value.
4) The dealer will then go through normal protocol of offering insurance on Ace up cards or checking for blackjack on all ten value cards.
5) Player blackjacks are paid 3:2 on both the Main and Half Back wagers if the dealer does not also have a blackjack.
6) The player will act next and have the following four options:
6a) If the player has a hard or soft total of 13 - 16, the dealer will offer the player the opportunity to withdraw their Half Back wager and continue their hand with just the main wager in play.
6b) If the player has a pair they wish to split, the main wager will be used to fund the first split hand and the Half Back wager will be used to fund the 2nd split hand. No additional wagers are required on initial splits. Subsequent splits will require additional wagers equal to the Main wager. Re-split to 4 hands and on Aces is dependent on the house casino. Double after Split is allowed subject to requirements at 6c) below.
6c) Doubling of the Main wager only is allowed on two card hand totals of hard 9 - 11. Doubling on a player's first two cards will result in the player having three equal wagers in action. Doubling after split will result in two equal wagers in action.
6d) If none of the options in 6a) to 6c) are available to the player, the player plays out their hand normally with both the Main & Half Back wagers in action.
7) The dealer plays out their hand in the normal fashion according to house rules (Hit/Stand on Soft 17, etc.)
8) All winning bets in action against the dealer hand pay even money, with the exception of 3:2 on player blackjacks per 5) above.

Essentially what Half Back Blackjack offers is trading the option to pull back 1/2 your bet on your 13 - 16's (hard or soft) with the offset of the dealer getting a second chance at a more favorable up card when they are initial dealt a 3 - 6.

There is a Apple Device Only App available in the App Store by searching "Half Back Blackjack". You'll need an iPhone 5 or higher or any iPad as we needed a bit of screen real estate to properly animate the game. My apologies to Android only users or iPhone 4/4S users.

A demo video and game rules are available at www.luckyparadigmgaming.com. You will also find the strategy table for when to withdraw your Half Back wager, Double Down & Split on the back side of the rack card on the website. After the initial decision on your two card hand, you will follow basic blackjack strategy for the hitting and standing during the balance of play.

House Edge on the game varies between 0.91% & 1.33% depending on if the house Hits Soft 17, re-splitting of Aces allowed & whether split Aces receive one card only or are allowed to be hit. The 0.91% game is Stand on Soft 17, RSA & hitting split aces allowed.

Our ongoing trial at Emerald Queen Casino is the 1.33% version of the game with Hitting Soft 17, no re-split of Aces and one card only on split Aces.

I'll follow up with the Bronze Award Winner, Super Sweep Poker, in a few days.

One question Paradigm. Section 6c you say "Doubling on a players first two cards will result in the player having three equal wagers in action ".
Why is there three equal wagers,isn't one of the wagers the half wager?

Sorry, I was trying to clarify and clearly failed :-).

Say your start with a $5 Main Wager and an equal $5 Half Back wager. If you are initially dealt a hard 9-11, you may double your main wager by adding $5 to it. This will result in three $5 wagers (Main, Half Back & the Double wagers) in play on the doubled hand.

If you double post split, say you again started with $5/$5 (Main/Half Back wagers), were dealt 3/3 and split the pair. You would now have $5 bet on each of the 3's as the Main wager would be allocated to the 1st split hand and the Half Back wager would be allocated to the 2nd split hand. If the first 3 was hit with an 8, you could double by adding $5 and thus would have two $5 wagers riding on that first split hand that was subsequently doubled. You would then turn to the 2nd split hand and play it out with the $5 Half Back wager riding on it.

If that isn't clear (because a picture is worth a 1000 words), check out the demonstration video by clicking the yellow text "Demostratio Video" here: Half Back Video

Dumb question time " That is a blackjack game where the underlying rules of the main bet are altered. "

By this definition is 6/5 BJ a variant ? I have a reason for asking.

You explained it well. My mistake, I thought the half back wager was half of the main wager hence my confusion .

Quote: muleyvoice

Dumb question time " That is a blackjack game where the underlying rules of the main bet are altered. "

By this definition is 6/5 BJ a variant ? I have a reason for asking.

I don't know that there is a definitive answer when it comes to what qualifies as a BJ Variant. Personally, I would not consider 6:5 Blackjack a variant, just changing one pay event with no other liberalization of the rules doesn't seem sufficient to call it a variant. But that is just one opinion.

Going from 3:2 to 6:5 bj is almost like going from 9/6 to 9/5 JoB.

Agree it is a horrible rule that is gaining acceptance in Vegas...one of the speakers at the Conference was appalled by how much 6:5 he saw (he was from a large non NV casino), but if the tourists will play it, why not offer it and pay no lease fees for Free Bet, Switch, Spanish or for that matter Half Back.

I think 6:5 has made selling a blackjack variant in Vegas harder than 2 years ago.

But in regional markets, operators can't get away with 6:5. BJ variants that provide a better player experience, while winning 3-5% more than regular blackjack should get a harder look by operators.

Paradigm,

Your "Half Back Blackjack" is a very nice Blackjack variant (simple, easy and fun) I like it.

Thanks for all the detailed explanations. Both the games sound interesting - hope they make it to the UK sometime.

btw when you said "Half Back" I initially thought a football/rugby player in that the bet can move around and react in defence or attack; but now understand it can also mean you get half your total bet back if you get a 13-16. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_back )

Thanks Stephen!! We are hoping for great things, but lots of work still to do.

Charlie, these are the types of things that make naming so difficult. I am certain Teliiot will be chuckling when he reads your comment as we had a similar discussion with him. I could stretch your rugby concept and say that the Half Back bet can be used defensively (eg when you have a 13-16) and the game has an offensive charactersistic in doubking on 9-11, but as I said, I think that would be a stretch to fit the game to your commment :-).

Quote: Paradigm

I am certain Teliiot will be chuckling when he reads your comment.

I will affirm that this did indeed happen.

Paradigm, do U care to talk about other games in the show (as the thread subject suggested)?

As I mentioned, Bronze Winner is next...it takes a bit of time to write them up. Hoping to get that done this weekend, stay tuned.

When I first read/see the game "Half Back Blackjack". I was thinking of names like "Money-Back Blackjack" and "Money-Back 21".

Quote: MrCasinoGames

When I first read/see the game "Half Back Blackjack". I was thinking of names like "Money-Back Blackjack" and "Money-Back 21".

PS. For the Record: I created The Number 1 Poker-Nickname (Devil-Fish) Dave Ulliott in 1997.
The origin of the Devilfish.

It was mentioned in his obituary that an opponent gave him that nickname and I have no doubt it was you.
His personality shows in his obituary :
"He did not get on with his father, claiming that he thought his name was “Shut up” until he was about 14. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11520059/Dave-Ulliott-poker-champion-obituary.html

Gone at 61. SIGH

My name (Stephen Au-Yeung) is also mentioned in his biography book (Swimming with the DevilFish).

PS. I also sold him the website DevilFishPoker.com in 2005, but I still own DevilFishPoker.co.uk

Time for the Bronze Award winner: Super Sweep Poker

I regret I did not get to this booth in order to play the game, but I have had some previous contact with the creators and the game itself and can describe the base game. I am a bit fuzzy on the mechanics of the side bet, but do my best to describe it below as well.

Super Sweep Poker can be generally described as a three card poker variant played against the dealer where the number of cards the player uses to form their best three card hand varies. The number of player cards is at least 3 and up to 5 as determined by an initial stage of each hand called "5-Card Sweep" (if you ever saw the game show, Card Sharks, you will be familiar with the concept behind the 5-Card Sweep stage of the game). Here is the game summary:

1) Players starts each hand by making two equal mandatory wagers: the Ante wager & the 5-Card Sweep wager.
2) All players receive an initial card and they will continue to receive additional cards up to a total of five provided the rank of subsequent cards is higher or lower as called by the dealer. Note the dealer deals an initial card to each player and then goes back to the first player to deal subsequent cards.
3) Beginning with the first player, the dealer will call "higher" if the player's card rank was 8 or lower, the dealer will call "lower" if the previous dealt card's rank was higher than 8 and then deal the next card to the player. Card ranks are 2 being lowest and Ace being highest.
4) Subsequent cards will be dealt to a player until they receive a card where the card rank dealt does not match the call of the dealer or ties in rank to the previous card or is a fifth card that is correctly called and dealt to the player (e.g. the player will not receive more than 5 cards).
5) Players will not keep the card that stops further cards from being dealt to them unless they have less than three cards. Players will always receive at least 3 cards, regardless of the outcome of the 5-Card Sweep portion of the game.
6) If the player successfully receives five cards in the 5-Card Sweep stage, their 5-Card Sweep wager will be paid 3 to 1 and they will receive an additional payout (4 pay tables exist) if they can form a 3 card straight or higher from their 5-Card Sweep hand (e.g. Straight 1-1, 3OAK 5-1, SF 10-1). If the player receives less than five cards, the 5-Card Sweep wager is lost.
7) The player will then determine if they want to play their best three card poker hand against the dealer. If the player decides to play, they will make a Play wager equal to their Ante wager. Otherwise the Player folds and loses their Ante wager.
8) Following the player's decision, the dealer deals out their hand and qualifies with a Queen high against a 3 card player hand, King high against a 4 card player hand and Ace high against a five card player hand. The dealer will use the same number of cards to form their best 3 card poker hand as the player.
9) Winning hands always get paid even money on the Ante wager and if the dealer qualified, even money is won on the Play wager. Both Ante and Play wagers are lost on losing hands (I believe the player must beat the dealer regardless of whether the dealer qualifies or they lose their wagers).

There is also a Super Sweep Side Bet where I believe the dealer's cards are also called higher or lower as they are dealt out in a similar fashion to the 5-Card Sweep stage of the players hand. The Super Sweep Side Bet begins to pay once 5 cards have been successfully called and dealt. The payouts increase on each successful cards after 5 cards and loses if the dealer's hand does not get to five cards. Pay table is (5 cards) 1-1, (6) 2-1, (7) 3-1, (8) 4-1, (9) 5-1, (10) 20-1 & 200-1 on ten cards that also include 4 Aces). I assume these are the same cards 3, 4 or 5 cards that the dealer uses to make their 3 card poker hand, but I am unsure of the hand mechanics on this side bet, perhaps another attendee of the creators can chime in here.

I don't feel like I have done the game justice here in its simplicity...the game is much harder to explain in the written word than play in practice. It really is just 3CP with the number of cards used to generate your & the dealer's 3CP Hand determined in a 5-Card game of "Card Sharks/Higher or Lower".

Here is the game's website link Katrillion Entertainment

I welcome other attendees to share the burden here and post some game summaries. I will add a "Next Step Blackjack" summary in a few days unless someone beats me to it.

Gee, looks like I will lose the play bet at least half the time with a 5 card hand. Not very exciting ?

Quote: Paradigm

I don't feel like I have done the game justice here in its simplicity...

I spent a lot of time at their booth. I'll give it a shot.

Quote: Paradigm

8) Following the player's decision, the dealer deals out their hand and qualifies with a Queen high against a 3 card player hand, King high against a 4 card player hand and Ace high against a five card player hand. The dealer will use the same number of cards to form their best 3 card poker hand as the player.

Once all players initial sweeps are done, the dealer deals three cards, and resolves the hands of players that have only three cards. If necessary, the dealer deals another and resolves the four card players hands. Again if necessary, deals a fifth card to resolve the five card player hands.

Quote: Paradigm

There is also a Super Sweep Side Bet where I believe the dealer's cards are also called higher or lower as they are dealt out in a similar fashion to the 5-Card Sweep stage of the players hand. The Super Sweep Side Bet begins to pay once 5 cards have been successfully called and dealt. The payouts increase on each successful cards after 5 cards and loses if the dealer's hand does not get to five cards. Pay table is (5 cards) 1-1, (6) 2-1, (7) 3-1, (8) 4-1, (9) 5-1, (10) 20-1 & 200-1 on ten cards that also include 4 Aces).

So far so good...

Quote: Paradigm

I assume these are the same cards 3, 4 or 5 cards that the dealer uses to make their 3 card poker hand, but I am unsure of the hand mechanics on this side bet, perhaps another attendee of the creators can chime in here.

So close... Whatever card the dealer deals last to resolve the player hands is used as the first card for the Super Sweep. All other cards are discarded.


For the record, this is similar, but not the same, as the game they offered last year. They admitted that. I don't remember last year's game, so i don't know the difference. I DO know that they did have the higher/lower thing in the game last year. When I talked to them last year, I mentioned a game called "Catch a Wave" that I played at Foxwoods about 12 years ago. (Catch a Wave is ALL about the higher/lower thing.) They mentioned that they know the game, and (I forget) either own or are renting that patent.

Thanks DJ...I was fairly certain I was screwing up the Super Sweep piece of it, appreciate you stepping in :-)!

Quote: Paradigm

As the other thread has been a bit derailed on the "Tito or not to Tito" debate, I thought I would start a new thread dedicated to providing overviews of some of the games at the CETGC....why not start with the Gold Award Winner: Texas Switch

Texas Switch, as the name implies, is a Texas Hold'em variant played against the dealer in the same vein as Ultimate Texas Hold'em/Heads Up Hold'em/Texas Bonus Hold'em. It actually most closely resembles Texas Bonus Hold'em as there are multiple opportunities to bet and check as the community cards are revealed. Unlike UTH or HUH where once you make a decision to bet and are done, Texas Switch allows the player to add bets after their hole cards are delivered and two additional times during the hand.

Here is the summary of betting and hand play as I recall:

1) Players start by making equal Ante and Switch wagers and are delivered two hole cards
2) If a player does not like their original hole cards, they may toss them back and get two new hole cards while simultaneously forfeiting their Switch bet.
3) If a player does not elect to Switch, their Switch bet remains in play and will lose on player hands losing to the dealer and push on player hands beating the dealer.
4) After being satisfied with their two hole cards, a player may check or bet up to 2X their Ante prior to seeing the first 2 of 5 community cards.
5) Two of the 5 community cards are revealed and the player has the option to check or bet 1X their Ante
6) The third community card is revealed and now the player must bet 1X their Ante or Fold and lose all their previous bets in action.
7) The final two community cards are revealed and the dealer reveals their two hole cards and determines the dealer's best 5 card poker hand. The dealer's hand always qualifies.
8) Then the players hands are revealed and compared to the dealer's hand. I believe all wagers in play, except the Switch bet, are paid even money on wins. As mentioned above, the Switch bet pushes on player wins and loses on player losses.
9) There is also a Bonus Bet that can be made at the beginning of the hand that pays according to a pay table on the player's hand. Unfortunately I didn't take a pic of the pay table.

I thought the game was good and obviously the attendees did as well voting it in the top spot in the competition. I met the developer at the table, David Nizgoda, who was also involved in the development of War Blackjack.

Please feel free to correct anything I have misstated above, but I think I got it right. I have to admit, I didn't get to very many of the other games on the floor as Lucky and I were busy in our own booth. Hopefully others will post summaries of some of the other independent games on the floor...DJ, this means you!

Has anyone seen/done the math on the version presented at the trade show?

There was a comment that the version demo'd had a player advantage of 35%? Any veracity to that?

Quote: 21Flip

Has anyone seen/done the math on the version presented at the trade show?

There was a comment that the version demo'd had a player advantage of 35%? Any veracity to that?

This comment was made by "Hittem", a brand new member on 11/13/15 in their first post & nothing since. He/she provided no support for such a claim. I don't know if it is true, but am not moved much by an unsubstantiated claim from a brand new member. I welcome Hittem to post the copy of the math analysis they reviewed or produced themselves that supports the 35% player advantage assertion.

Quote: Paradigm

This comment was made by "Hittem", a brand new member on 11/13/15 in their first post & nothing since. He/she provided no support for such a claim. I don't know if it is true, but am not moved much by an unsubstantiated claim from a brand new member. I welcome Hittem to post the copy of the math analysis they reviewed or produced themselves that supports the 35% player advantage assertion.

If true, he shouldn't have said anything and destroyed the game if installed anywhere.

Next Step Blackjack was a repeat game from the 2014 TG Conference that was also exhibited at this year's show. The game is a product of Innovative Gaming Concepts and their updated website can be found here: Next Step Blackjack.

Next Step Blackjack is a blackjack side bet that revolves around the player receiving a blackjack in their first two cards, but also pays 3-1 if the dealer gets a blackjack. If the player receives a blackjack after making the Next Step Blackjack side bet to start the hand, the player is offered the opportunity to shake 4 dice in a pai gow cup. The result of the four dice roll is compared to a pay table to determine the side bet pay odds, which are never below 10-1. There are various pay tables available and the one posted at the website is goes all the way up to 1000-1 if the player received a blackjack of A/K of Hearts and subsequently rolls a value of 21 when shaking the four dice.

I had heard some good comments about the game from some attendees and thought this game had a good shot at the podium based on the success of blackjack side bets receiving favorable votes in the past several shows (e.g. War Blackjack & Pick'em Blackjack). The only negative comment I heard was the potential problems using dice (e.g. dice getting bumped while PG Cup lid is removed, resolution when dice are stacked after the roll, etc.). One attendee did tell me that the dice were in fact knocked slightly when they played the game and they imagined that could create some controversy on the floor.

I think the positives here are that the large pay out potential on a BJ side bet offset by the frequency of the win (and I am a proponent for more dice games on the casino floor!). You are only rolling the dice every 21+ hands (the frequency of getting a blackjack). The developers have soften that low hit frequency by paying 3-1 on a dealer blackjack as well.

This is similar to what has evolved in Super 4 Progressive Blackjack side bet that originally paid only when the dealer got a blackjack but I believe now offers some return on a player blackjack as well. AGS' Counts Kustom blackjack side bet is similar in that the player gets to spin an RNG device on a player blackjack...they added a modest pay on any player Ace card to once again soften the sub 5% hit rate if wins are limited to only a blackjack.

So I am running out of games that I got to see or am familiar with from other shows that were also at this year's show. 21Flips game was present and has been slightly revised I believe from the initial version that was live at the NC Cherokee Casino, Royal Deal Poker was there and others. I leave the floor open to other attendees or the game's owners to add game summaries and/or comment on their experience at the Conference.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

If true, he shouldn't have said anything and destroyed the game if installed anywhere.

True and it will get some installs as it won the Show...but somehow I think the math will be vetted before then :-).

I would love to see the math on this.I played catch a wave and to even get to 5 cards is not that easy.Catching the wave meant making five correct guesses for a total of six cards.You could stop any time you wanted then the dealer would play out his hand to compete against yours,following house rules as to stay or draw another card.It was a fun game .

I believe you are referring to Super Sweep Poker and the BMM Testlabs report is available in full at the website via a link on the Odds tab at the bottom of the summary page.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

If true, he shouldn't have said anything and destroyed the game if installed anywhere.

Amen to that.

There's been mistakes in the past.

Of course after someone empty's the rack a few times they would probably pull the game. That's not really something you can milk for long before AP's are standing in line for a seat.

It would definitely be a very popular game indeed.

Quote: AxelWolf

There's been mistakes in the past.

Agree Axel and most have been AP play via collusion or the like. I don't know of a game that has actually been released with a built in 35% player edge...but I bet you have stories you could tell me :-). My point was that this game was not put together by a novice in the business and I highly doubt the main game math is that wrong without a dealing mechanics issue (hole carding, etc.) or a collusion issue.

In playing the game, losing or pushing all the time on the Switch bet seemed tough enough of a rule to offset getting a new set of hole cards. But perhaps if you knew the 12 cards in play at a full table and/or enough of the replacement cards requested, you could gain an edge. I don't doubt that an AP Report should be done on this game prior to installation...that is what I would demand if I was an operator. I do doubt that without 6 player collusion and perfect play you could gain 35%.

Suggesting such an edge is obtainable as an initial post does not appear credible, but again, I haven't seen the game's math report. However, as was suggested, why post that here if it was true? Why not just wait to burn out the game if it is launched with such a glaring opportunity? Something just doesn't seem right with the story.

Quote: AxelWolf

Amen to that.

There's been mistakes in the past.

Of course after someone empty's the rack a few times they would probably pull the game. That's not really something you can milk for long before AP's are standing in line for a seat.

It would definitely be a very popular game indeed.

A game could be a +75% player advantage at a show. It doesn't hit my floor until I see 3rd party math on it. No chance for AP's killing it for a time.


ZCore13

Next step blackjack reminds me of Wheel of Madness. Usually only one chumps betting it, dealer catering to him, then have to sit there will he pushes a spin button, wheel spins, he gets paid. I always left any such table and I am sure I am not alone. Sureaint gonna waste my time watching some chump rolling dice.

Quote: Paradigm

True and it will get some installs as it won the Show...but somehow I think the math will be vetted before then :-).

And that was the thing that made me wonder.

I don't want to disparage a game or its development team, especially based on a one-post allegation in a forum.

That said, it seemed like an odd allegation to be made. If true, then it taints the win of the competition for Best New Game... If you have one set of pay-tables for the marketing, and another "less fun" version for the actual install...

It wouldn't be the first time a bait-and-switch was pulled.

I don't know if the development team for Texas Switch participates in the forum here. If they do, I would love to hear their side of it.

Again, this is an anonymous allegation, and those tend to be about accurate as a blind man with a sniper rifle...

EDIT: Actually, I think the Wiz did a video of the version being presented at the conference. So, that actually would answer the question of "is the conference version the same as the certified/install version".