Criticism of new dice games

Quote: vegas702

I like suggestion #2.

There is no one here who knows dice games better than Paradigm. Anything he says, you should listen to very carefully. Including that he is on his sixth game.

You must know that I did the original math on Three Dice Football in April, 2008. This is not news to me. Seven years later, time to move on.

.....

.....

Quote: charliepatrick

I have also seen one-roll Craps in the Netherlands, the "shooter" kept the dice until a 7 but bets were only on the next roll - it has the ease of being understood.

.

I played this in Amsterdam, it was on a mini Craps like table, with just one dealer i think, if memory serves (which may not be too reliable, it was a while ago, and in Amsterdam!) Two dealers at the most. I enjoyed it. Rocket 7 i think it was called?

I second all the comments about listening to Paradigm, he's very knowledgeable about designing new games... he gave me some helpful advice recently that i havn't followed...yet:) He mentioned earlier in the thread trying it on a BJ size table, and i think this is key. If it was the staffing costs that caused it to fail initially, then it probably won't fly on a Craps size table with 3/4 dealers. If you can keep the elements that made it popular with the players, but downsize it to a BJ size table with just one dealer, then it might be worth trying.

Good luck.

Quote: Paradigm

2) Figure out why the game failed, if the game can be fixed do so & get a field trial for the new version (Go get'em Money$uit31)

Quote: vegas702

Great advice paradigm!
I like suggestion #2. =)

I do too ;)

But as many others have said, all the advise given by Mike is very valuable. We have known each other for a very long time at this point and have both tried to help each other settle with things we didn't want to do/give up/change in our games. Unwillingness to change is a self induced death sentence.

.....

Quote: vegas702

...

by the way I've seen your game mentioned on the forum and finally got around to checking it out. Very nice game!!!

Much Apprecited!

All I was saying was to just be open to change. It took me a very long time before I finally accepted what Mike and many others on the forum had to say, and alter a few things which made significant improvements to a number of areas for my game. I was very hardheaded at first for a long time...

Based on your responses, I can see that you are certainly listening to what everyone has to say. With that, you choose what you think is best.

No matter what I wish you luck!

Quote: 3Dice

The problem is that it is very expensive to try a new concept in electronic format. You are dealing with software, hardware, programming, compliance approvals. So very expensive proposition to a manufacturer on an unproven concept. As opposed to a table game where you just print a felt for $100 and see what happens.

This is 100% on point. Every failed venture in the electronic space costs a bundle plus the opportunity cost of not having the engineers working on refining existing products and games that are proven revenue-producers.

My opinion on new dice games :

1) try to attract current craps players
2) keep the same size / shape table
3) use the same number of dealers
4) keep the flow of the game the same (come-out phase and point phase)
5) keep the option to bet both "with"and "against" the house

My approach to inventing a new dice game is to only "slightly" change craps (for some better payouts, longer rolls, etc.)

"Sub-crap-tion" ... just subtract the dice instead of adding the dice.

It may even be a bit simpler because there are only 6 different outcomes (0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5) instead of the 11 in craps.

How about a craps variant that uses dice other than d6s?

Quote: darthxaos

How about a craps variant that uses dice other than d6s?

Perhaps 8 sided? Getting a double 8 would be a good thing in Asia.

Quote: darthxaos

How about a craps variant that uses dice other than d6s?

Gamblers are very reliant on the known, trusted, and familiar game play methods and practices, particularly with their money on the line, and are not very comfortable with totally brand-new concepts, especially if they seem too new or alien.

Anything that is excessively novel, or comes out of left field, and may elicit a response of "Hmm....I don't know about that - let me stick with my trusted and true..."

Quote: Paigowdan

Gamblers are very reliant on the known, trusted, and familiar game play methods and practices, particularly with their money on the line, and are not very comfortable with totally brand-new concepts, especially if they seem too new or alien.

Anything that is excessively novel, or comes out of left field, and may elicit a response of "Hmm....I don't know about that - let me stick with my trusted and true..."

Given how dead Sic Bo is for most of the day at my casino, you have no idea how true this is. Furthermore, the issue with dice games is that there may be a bit of a learning curve. The most popular games that aren't the basics seem to be based in poker - simply put, most people know how to play poker.

So if you're going to do a dice game, making it based in craps - two dice, six sides, for example - is a good way to go.

Or if you really don't want to use the traditional dice, I suppose there is one other idea, if there's a way to make it work - poker dice. I have a set of nine dice (Square Shooters - bought them as a novelty) that could be useful as a poker game if I could figure out the math. Two jokers (nine dice, six sides on each, so 54 sides) increase the number of hands, but the real difference is that there are only so many ways those dice could be arranged (if you take five dice at random and roll them, it's 9 nCr 5 times 6^5 possible results (the answer is 979,776 possible hands, but the only way to factor them in without sheer brute force is...well, a hell of a computer program. Maybe Excel.)

There was a new game at Coventry using 5-Poker Dice. Neat idea using Craps like place bets where pair 4s or less was 7-out and others paid various odds. I think people know Poker Dice. Then there's Yahtzee. (If you're really into dice, there's a new game "Roll for the Galaxy" based on "Race For The Galaxy", but that's a totally different thread!)

Quote: charliepatrick

There was a new game at Coventry using 5-Poker Dice. Neat idea using Craps like place bets where pair 4s or less was 7-out and others paid various odds. I think people know Poker Dice. Then there's Yahtzee. (If you're really into dice, there's a new game "Roll for the Galaxy" based on "Race For The Galaxy", but that's a totally different thread!)

Given how Sic Bo exists using three dice, it's made me wonder why Yahtzee or a variant hasn't been turned into a casino game - I guess someone figured it out.

I guess I have an idea for a table game version of competitive five-dice poker - something perhaps like Mississippi Stud, in which players use a popper to get their own dice, which only they can see, and then the dealer reveals three individually dropped dice one at a time. The trick is the expense of designing the table for it.