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vegas702
vegas702
Joined: Nov 22, 2013
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February 18th, 2015 at 7:39:42 PM permalink
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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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February 18th, 2015 at 8:02:14 PM permalink
I think you're right that craps players won't play a simpler game. But there are a lot of people that won't play craps because it's too complicated. Therefore, a new dice game that is simpler than craps, will probably appeal to people that want to play a dice game but won't because craps is too complicated.

On the flip side, a new dice game that is more complicated than craps, probably will appeal to nobody.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
vegas702
vegas702
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February 18th, 2015 at 8:38:36 PM permalink
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charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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February 19th, 2015 at 4:49:07 AM permalink
There seem to have been a few dice games that appeared briefly in the UK. Of these only Qilin (see http://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/qilin.html ) used non-standard dice.

I have also seen one-roll Craps in the Netherlands, the "shooter" kept the dice until a 7 but bets were only on the next roll - it has the ease of being understood.

A complex game might work provided the basics can be explained in a short sentence and quirks in under 30 seconds. One of the problems I've seen with new games is there's no accompanying leaflet so the responsibility lies with the dealer to give a quick overview, and they have little time to do this. Also to catch the walk-by player, the aim has to become apparent from watching a few hands/games.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 19th, 2015 at 4:58:12 AM permalink
Craps is simple enough, it's the betting that can get complicated. My own intimidation at first came from the layout, the bets, the etiquette
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Paradigm
Paradigm
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February 19th, 2015 at 7:40:53 AM permalink
Quote: vegas702

I agree that a "simple" dice game would appeal to people who don't normally play dice. however, as far as it being successful in a casino, a 3-month or even a 6-month field trial isn't nearly enough time for a simple, new dice game to build a following from scratch, so it would still be dead in the water, in my opinion.


Building a following/player base in 3-6 mos is the challenge for every new game on the floor. That's the nature of the business......it's hard to design a great game concept.

The problem with dice vs cards is that there is only one known successful game on the floor (craps) & many would agree if that game was introduced today, it would fail. Most successful new casino games are based on variants of known games. When the only known game in the space would fail today as a new game, you are stuck trying to introduce a foreign new game concept when basing it on dice.

Introducing a foreign game concept whether it is based on cards or dice is very difficult, but in both cases, it better be simple to understand and fun to play. And if it is a dice game, it has to appeal to non-craps players, cause the current craps players aren't going to be the ones to play the new dice game.....it will be card based carnival game players that are too intimidated to play craps but want to play something else besides a new poker or BJ variant.
teliot
teliot
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February 19th, 2015 at 8:07:58 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

The problem with dice vs cards is that there is only one known successful game on the floor (craps) & many would agree if that game was introduced today, it would fail. Most successful new casino games are based on variants of known games. When the only known game in the space would fail today as a new game, you are stuck trying to introduce a foreign new game concept when basing it on dice.

Sic Bo is huge throughout Asia. It has to be the 2nd dumbest game next to roulette.
3Dice
3Dice
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February 19th, 2015 at 8:58:28 AM permalink
I'll tell you what the biggest problem is for new dice games. I created 3 Dice Football...it had plenty of action and win. The problem is the labor cost associated with a dice table. A big dice table requires a crew of 5 dealers....it doesn't matter how popular a new game is, on a Tuesday afternoon it's most likely going to be empty, and a casino doesn't want to pay 5 dealers to stand around. Casinos claim they want innovation but it's a bunch of BS...they only care about maximizing profit....so they will never invest In a new dice game long enough for it to gain traction. The other big problem is dealer training. I can't tell you how many times my table was packed and 2 deep around the table....then they would rotate dealers and put a crew that didn't even know how the dice mechanic worked....10 minutes later the table would be empty...torture!
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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February 19th, 2015 at 9:02:11 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Quote: Paradigm

The problem with dice vs cards is that there is only one known successful game on the floor (craps) & many would agree if that game was introduced today, it would fail. Most successful new casino games are based on variants of known games. When the only known game in the space would fail today as a new game, you are stuck trying to introduce a foreign new game concept when basing it on dice.

Sic Bo is huge throughout Asia. It has to be the 2nd dumbest game next to roulette.

Where does Bacarrat fall? I think this game is the simplest of all since there are so few bets, and no hit/stand player decisions. By virtue of the number of bets, it is even easier than the Big 6 wheel. Yet, it is easily the biggest table game in terms of world wide revenue.

Where new games fail is stacking the odds in favor of the house so much so that players don't "feel" like they have a chance. Why switch to a game that offers less of a chance to win, and less entertainment value? Unfotunately, the floor management side of running a casino works the opposite way. Why spend the money to try out a game that brings in the same or less money than what we already have, in hopes of building a following that will bring in the volume to turn a bigger profit?

I think new games that have been successfully introduced may cost more initially to play (3x$5 bets to "ante" and "play" the game, rather than 1x$5 line bet), but offer push opportunities and relatively huge progressive jackpots, so players "feel" like it was worth taking a longer shot. Craps has such a thin edge for the house in the base game, that it will not be beat by a new dice game. However, the real money generators for the house have been the sucker bets in the center (and now the "Fire" and "All, Tall, Small"). What makes it work is that these longshots are optional. You are not forced to pay for them by taking longer odds on the base game, but can enjoy the excitement of a chance at a big payout if you want to.

I liked "Three Dice Football". I am ahead lifetime on that game thanks to a lucky hit on a "turnover" bet. Whatever happened to "Scossa"?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
teliot
teliot
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February 19th, 2015 at 9:15:05 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Where does Baccarat fall?

Roulette has a sample space of size 37 or 38. Sic Bo has a sample space of size 216. Baccarat has a sample space of size 4998398275503360 (and it's not a dice game). Players are not just interested in the binary result of the hand, they are also entertained by the journey to get to the outcome. That said, baccarat is a brain-dead game: basic strategy is to play only Banker bets.

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