"Royal Deal Poker": New game requesting feedback
Or did someone force you to post this ?? " Please be as candid as possible. "
May I ask if your opinion of candid is to kiss your ass.
Yes it's difficult to get a new game to fly, but I think the key thing is the game is either simple to understand or exceedingly fun to play. Basing the game on poker certainly saves one part of explaining the aims (except to those who don't know poker - I've seen dealers at 3CP try to explain hands on Friday nights!). There have been a number of poker-based games, in the UK quite a few still survive.
Quote: BuzzardIf I was polite, then I apologize !
Apology accepted. I get my felt in 2-3 days then I hit the streets.
Quote: beachbumbabsThe game I patented in July did not look like the one I started with in May, and the 2nd patent in October contained radical refinements to the July patent. The game then I sold in late October had refinements early the morning of the purchaser's appointment, necessitating a 3rd patent application that same day. Don't quit. You never know when a bit of inspiration will change your game for the better. OTOH, constructive criticism is very tough to take; use it and then leave it behind.
Babs,
I was able to get the demo completed yesterday through TG Science. There is developing interest in the Reno NV market. Please feel free to comment, good or bad. Thanks everyone.
Mike
http://tgscience.com/royal-deal-poker/
Quote: mikeabiomedNew Version
ROYAL DEAL POKER
RULES AND THEORY
TWO DECKS FROM A STANDARD 52 CARD DECK OF CARDS ARE USED WITH ONLY THE 10 THROUGH ACE CARDS (40 CARDS) PLUS TWO JOKER CARDS FOR A TOTAL OF 42 CARDS IN THE DECK.
I think this is unusual but not unprecedented or unworkable. It will certainly get people's blood going to see all those faces coming up every hand. So your jokers are fully wild, or 'bug' jokers like in PGP? I'm thinking you're using them as 'bug', since you're differentiating between wild aces and others in 3oak/4oak/5oak?
ONLY 40 OF THE 42 CARDS WILL BE USED PER PLAYERS/DEALER HAND. THE BOTTOM 2 CARDS FROM EACH DECK ARE NOT DEALT AND DISCARDED.
EACH PLAYER WILL MAKE A MINIMUM ANTE BET AND AN OPTIONAL MINIMUM BONUS SIDE BET.
You indicate an Envy bonus bet along side the bonus paytable. Did you intend that envy to be paid only to players who bet a minimum $5, like in PGP, but the game can offer the bonus at a minimum $1, and the odds will be paid to a person with the hand but not the envy to other players? Did you intend the bonus minimum to be $5? Or does any bonus bet qualify for the envy pays?
THE DEALER TAKES THE PRE-SHUFFLED CARDS AND DEALS OUT THREE CARDS TO ALL PLAYERS LEFT TO RIGHT, INCLUDING UNPLAYED POSITIONS. THE DEALER WILL PICK UP AND REMOVE ALL UNPLAYED HANDS.
So the layout is for 7 players, and the dealer gets a hand as well, right? This would be the place to include that, I think; some games that are only against a paytable do not have a dealer hand, so I think it's worth stating that.
PLAYERS MAY LOOK AT THEIR CARDS TO DETERMINE WHETHER THEY WANT TO HOLD THEIR BET, DOUBLE THEIR ANTE, OR FOLD THEIR CARDS.
I'm not sure what you mean by "HOLD THEIR BET"; do you mean stand on their ante? If so, then there's no reason to fold at this point; everyone would either stand or raise 1x their ante. If that's not what you mean, please clarify.
Also, in the table below, you mention "Lose to qualified dealer". What hand does the dealer have to have to qualify? If the dealer does not qualify, does the player then still go head-to-head on part of the bet, but perhaps the ante gets pushed back? Or is it that the player must qualify with at least a straight or 3OAK in every case to NOT lose money? (With the stripped deck, if the player does not have a pair, by definition they have a straight, right?) What happens on a hand that is one pair or two pair, but beats the dealer's hand anyway? Does the dealer pay the player anything?
ONCE EVERYONE HAS DECIDED ON THEIR NEXT PLAY, THE FINAL TWO CARDS WILL BE DEALT TO EACH PLAYER IN ORDER OF LEFT TO RIGHT.
Are players who stood previously now required to either bet more or fold? Is a player who previously raised done betting, or can they bet again if they want? Or is there no further betting after the intial decision is made above?
IF A PLAYER WISHES TO BET MORE THAN ONE HAND, THEY MUST DOUBLE THE MINIMUM BET. ONLY A POSITION DIRECTLY TO THE LEFT OR RIGHT OF THE PLAYER MAY BE USED FOR TWO HANDS. TWO HANDS PER PLAYER IS THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED PER TABLE.
ONCE EACH HAND HAS BEEN COMPLETED, ALL CARDS ARE PLACED FACE UP TO THE DEALER FOR EVALUATION. PLAYERS MUST BEAT THE DEALERS HAND TO WIN THE MAIN GAME BET.
THE BONUS ENVY SIDE BET IS PAID TO ANYONE WHO ACHIEVES A BONUS PAYOUT RANKING, WHETHER THEY WIN, LOSE OR DRAW AGAINST THE DEALER’S HAND.
If this is similar to PGP, the wording is confusing to me. There, the Envy bet is paid to anyone who bet enough to qualify for Envy, except the position that actually had the hand. THAT person gets the odds payout, win-lose-draw against the dealer. I think you mean yours to work the same way, right?
LICENSED GAMING ESTABLISHMENTS MAY DECIDE TO INITIATE A PROGRESSIVE JACKPOT FOR A ROYAL FLUSH BONUS.
A WIN/LOSE/ODDS PAYOUT BOARD SHALL BE POSTED FOR ALL PLAYERS AND PERSONNEL FOR EASY REFERENCE.
THE CONTENT, RULES AND THEORY OF THIS GAME MAY BE SUBJECT TO REVIEW AND MODIFICATION AT THE DISCRETION AND APPROVAL OF THE LEGAL OWNER. ADDITIONS OR OMISSIONS MAY OCCUR.
ROYAL DEAL POKER
OUTCOME (HAND) PAYOUT (x 1)
ROYAL FLUSH 100
FIVE ACES 80
FIVE OF A KIND 60
WILD ROYAL FLUSH 25
FOUR ACES 20
WILD FOUR ACES 15
FOUR OF A KIND 10
FULL HOUSE 6
FLUSH 5
From here....
STRAIGHT 2
THREE OF A KIND 2
WILD STRAIGHT PUSH
WILD THREE ACES PUSH
TWO PAIRS -1
ONE PAIR -1
LOSE TO QUALIFIED DEALER -2
TIE WITH 3 OF A KIND OR BETTER PUSH
TIE WITH TWO PAIRS OR LOWER -1
FOLDS
To here...this is a scary and confusing part of the paytable. There are many opportunities for table arguments and dealer confusions in this section, at least based on this set of instructions. It's not just reading it; I took a couple of stripped decks and dealt it to myself in trying to understand how these would pay. Perhaps it will be clearer if you verify some of what I was asking about above, but I can see the rankings and conditions being very obstructive to dealing your game fast and clean, especially since that section contains at least 80% of all hands that will be dealt. I especially don't understand the "lose to qualified dealer" line, and differentiating between Ties Push and Ties Lose; they seem like a dealer trap, and worthy of some fine-tuning to simplify the paytable.
ROYAL DEAL POKER BONUS ENVY SIDE BET
HAND RANKING PAYOUT BONUS ENVY
ROYAL FLUSH 500 TO 1 $75
FIVE ACES 400 TO 1 $50
FIVE OF A KIND 250 TO 1 $25
WILD ROYAL FLUSH 100 TO 1 -
FOUR ACES 30 TO 1
WILD FOUR ACES 6 TO 1
FOUR OF A KIND 3 TO 1
FULL HOUSE 1 TO 1
FLUSH 1 TO 1
STRAIGHT 1 TO 1
WILD STRAIGHT PUSH
WILD THREE ACES PUSH
TWO PAIRS -1
ONE PAIR -1
This paytable seems very high when using 2 stripped decks plus 2 jokers, especially as you're paying 5 aces without differentiating between 5 natural and 5 wild. If this is math you had done with the single deck you started with, it may not be valid for double-deck, especially on the top 3 awards. I could be wrong, because I don't know how to correctly frame the math; however, I think it will come in severely player advantage with those big pays.
The thing is, you have more than twice as many opportunities to make any of those big hands, not just because there are 2 of every card, but you've gotten rid of almost 2/3 the deck that would get in the way of those cards coming. So, for 5OAK, you only need 5 of 8 cards in any of only 5 ranks, and there are only 42 total cards; that's got to happen much more often than 1 in 250 hands; I would expect to see it maybe 1 in 100. And if 5OAK includes 5 Aces/Wild, then that's 5 of 10 cards out of only 42, which you're going to see more than the others. I could easily be wrong about this.
The good thing about this paytable is that it's much easier for a dealer to know when to pay, when to push, and when to take in the losing bet. If your other paytable can get clean like this through some fine-tuning, I think it will be worth doing.
Again, I hope this is helpful, not discouraging. I look forward to your clarifications. /end BBB
Thanks!
Quote: beachbumbabsHi, Mike! Since you specifically want my comments, I'm going to do that below, within your rules. My comments will be in lower case, ok? I am confused about several things, but only reading these rules, not trying to incorporate information from prior versions, because I don't know what you've changed and what you're carrying over from previous versions but didn't mention here. Hope you find this helpful, as that is my intent.
Babs, I didn't expect such a refined response. Thanks for that, now I will do my best to explain and answer your questions.
1. The jokers are used as aces, straights and flushes (and of course royal fluses) only. They are not "wild" or to be used for any other purpose.
2. The envy is paid as with PG Poker Yes, the bonus minimum is $5.00 which qualifies for the bonus envy for the top 3 hands. $75 $50 and $25.
3. The dealer is now dealt a hand along with up to 7 other players. Formerly, I omitted the dealer as a hand participant.
4. The paytable does "seem" high, however, it equates to a house edge of over 5% without the bonus being played, and a range from approx. 3.5% with a full table (7) players to about 6.8% with one on one with the bonus played. I will have to double check the true odds but that gives you an idea of the range. All of the number calcs were done by Stephen How who has a very good reputation in the field. Did you go to the website? http://tgscience.com/royal-deal-poker/
5. Believe it or not, there have been so many changes, I'm still learning the total package. Kind of ironic since I've been directly involved from the start. Rail City in Sparks NV wants to be the trial casino but I'm at best, a couple of months away. Ideally, I'd like this to be a video poker app.
Quote: beachbumbabsHi, Mike! Since you specifically want my comments, I'm going to do that below, within your rules. My comments will be in lower case, ok? I am confused about several things, but only reading these rules, not trying to incorporate information from prior versions, because I don't know what you've changed and what you're carrying over from previous versions but didn't mention here. Hope you find this helpful, as that is my intent.
Sorry, the deal always qualifies.
Thanks for the TGS link; the description and paytables there helped enormously in understanding where you're going. I think the game plays very well there, especially as an automated/VP game, rather than hand-dealt, because the intertwined paytables are still pretty unusual. I appreciate your answers here as well, and that you took my critique as intended.
As a VP game, I think you've got a winner there. As a table game, I think it can be done but it's going to be tough to teach the dealers to pay the spots consistently (losing ante while beating the dealer, pushing the play, pushing the bonus; I see arguments and confusion ahead). Sort of bizarre that 3OAK pays 1:1 but is outranked by 2 pushing hands when determining whether you or the dealer won (just had that, where I had a natural 3-10's but lost to a wild straight, so lost ante and play but pushed bonus). Definitely worth having the computer sort the pays out rather than a person.
Looking forward to hearing that it's been installed on a console somewhere soon!
I thought that was strange as well about the 3 OAK. TGF computers. I'm still getting used to Charles' video but I like it just the same. I've had a wild royal but not a natural yet. Imagine playing in a casino with $100 and a $25 side bet (table game) while hitting the natural royal or 5 aces? It's a heck of a payday. Using the VP application, the bet would be closer to $1 X 5 or $5 a pop. If you haven't noticed, I have a weakness for video poker. :)
I didn't realize in the beginning I would borderline burnout doing this..Thanks for the positive comments!
The game can be played at htpp://tgscience.com/royal-deal-poker/
Mike
Quote: mikeabiomedJust to let the forum members know, the game has recently been corrected and revised payouts are in order with the rules. I want to thank both Stephen How and Charles Mousseau for working with me on the changes. I appreciate their dedication and determination.
The game can be played at htpp://tgscience.com/royal-deal-poker/
that would be http://tgscience.com/royal-deal-poker/Reno Mike
If I play dealer heads up, never bet the bonus, figure out best strategy, what is the HE ?
And don't expect the young and stupid to understand the joker is a " bug" . Even after being told twice.
We already know the game has a couple bugs (the jokers), so this must be a feature. Can this feature please be included in the live casino version?
http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/comics.html#prettyPhoto[pp_gal]%20nofollow/2/
I am aware of this "bug". CR Mousseau has been notified to update the certified payouts and make the corrections but I have not heard from him. Yeah, I'll make a few people happy if it's not changed! May even play it myself.. Buzzard, you in? :)
http://tgscience.com/royal-deal-poker/
Quote: mikeabiomedUtility patent filed. The rest will be history. Thanks Dan!
Go get 'em, mike! Good luck with it!
http://tgscience.com/royal-deal-poker/
Mike
I started playing after about 3 hands and got suspicious and thought it was gaffed.
I didn't read the part about it using a funny deck.
What's going to be VERY ANNOYING to players is...... getting monster hands and still frequently getting beat.
IE QQ JOKER dealt and the house makes a bigger hand.
I seriously dislike games where cards are taken out.
Yes, it's a different deck however, the house edge is comparable to most table games so the theory that you get "beat" frequently won't hold up. If you get a monster hand it's no different from getting a twenty, twenty one, or blackjack and pushing or losing. It will happen on occasion, however, there is a bonus side bet which has it's own separate payout, regardless of the dealer's hand. I appreciate your post.
Mike
Quote: mikeabiomedThanks AxelWolf.
Yes, it's a different deck however, the house edge is comparable to most table games so the theory that you get "beat" frequently won't hold up. If you get a monster hand it's no different from getting a twenty, twenty one, or blackjack and pushing or losing. It will happen on occasion, however, there is a bonus side bet which has it's own separate payout, regardless of the dealer's hand. I appreciate your post.
Mike
Hey Mike,
I haven't had a chance to play the new version. What is the hit rate on the game? Try not to rely to heavily on the HA to convince a player that they will inevitably hit/win. I can make a game with a positive 7000% in the players favor, while having a hit rate of 1 in 100,000 hands. Great house edge, but no one is going to win.
Best of luck with getting a trial! We all know how much of a pain in the ass that is... But as we have all seen many games get trials that no one ever expects to... And some just don't ever pick up any steam...
Good luck bud.
Quote: mikeabiomedMrSuit31, Yes, I've gotten very close with the field trial. PIA is a kind way of expressing it. Give me a few and I will get you the hit rate. It may vary whether or not there is a bonus side bet made. Thanks for the kind words. Standby on your question.
You should be able to get a hit rate on the base game and side wager... I look forward to seeing what that is...
People don't like getting what seems like an extra strong 3 card hand and still losing.Quote: mikeabiomedThanks AxelWolf.
Yes, it's a different deck however, the house edge is comparable to most table games so the theory that you get "beat" frequently won't hold up. If you get a monster hand it's no different from getting a twenty, twenty one, or blackjack and pushing or losing. It will happen on occasion, however, there is a bonus side bet which has it's own separate payout, regardless of the dealer's hand. I appreciate your post.
Mike
When you get dealt 2 aces or kings you expect to win a significant amount of time.
It's going to be frustrating. Hell I though it was gaffed. I realize people will know it doesn't use all the cards. I just don't think the average person will warm up to the idea especially when you are always getting dealt hands that seem good but really are not that strong . It's like getting dealt pocket aces then quickly looking back you realize its just fours.
Quote: mikeabiomedYes, you will forfeit the bonus bet if you fold. That is why you should never fold while playing the bonus bet.
So then if you should never fold ,there is no strategy to the game .To me that equals BORING.Sorry but I think most players that play table games like to think, even if it's just a little bit.
Isn;t there a way you could tweak the pay table so players could still win the bonus even if they fold.I think players would like that a lot more.
