Lucky Stiff Blackjack Opening
There in the corner was the lucky stiff table sitting empty so I took a seat at the table next to it and watched it for the next four hours.
As the casino filled this table finally got some action, And so too did the L-Stiff side bet.
The table location is the wost in the house (to be expected I guess) this table location
often only sees action when the other tables are at capacity.
That being said I saw way more action on the L-Stiff side bet than the table I was playing (Match Bonus) I think?
In fact I think it got more action than the other tables I could see as well. I couldn't see free bet from where I was sitting
but it was empty every time I got up and walked by , That is until the last time when I left and it was the only full BJ table.
I asked two dealers if they thought it was doing well. They said yes.
I may go back this coming weekend, One of the dealers said I was very handsome. The gloves are off now. :)
I will try and observe L-stiff again if I do.
We're hoping the table will get a better location soon. The main thing is the Lucky Stiff participation rate. If it's as high as early indicators tell us it will be, everything else should fall into place.
My guess is you were sitting at the BJ table with Double Action and Match Madness as the two BJ side bets. I believe there are two of those tables at Caribbean and they seem to get some side bet play as well. Both of those propositions are more of the instant resolution/"just get lucky" type of side bets, one on the front end using the dealer's upcard and the players two initial cards vs. a pay table and Match Madness is a mid hand resolution based on any of those three cards matching the dealer's down card.
The biggest differential for Lucky Stiff from these types of side bets is that the player's decision to stand or hit directly impacts whether the player will win the 5-1 end of hand payout in Lucky Stiff. BJ Players like control & that is what they get in Lucky Stiff.
Lucky Stiff does have the instant/"just get lucky" pays for a player Blackjack (1-1) and for players that are initially dealt pairs of 6's, 7's & 8's (10-1). However, roughly 2/3 of the 17.6% hit rate on Lucky Stiff is the 5-1 pay that the player receives when they start the hand with an unpaired Hard 12-16 (38% of their starting hands) and subsequently beat the dealer by either hitting or standing on their initial hand.
Next time you should sit at the Lucky Stiff table......even if you are not a side bet player and just stick to the main BJ bet (the main BJ bet is just regular BJ), you will get a chance to see Lucky Stiff in action when other players make the wager.
Legends is an 18 table/1400 machine tribal casino located in Toppenish, WA. Information regarding Legends can be found here: Legends Casino
We are getting good game results & player/dealer feedback at our first two installations of Lucky Stiff Blackjack at Casino Caribbean (Kirkland, WA) and Gold Strike (Tunica, MS) both of which went live in February. It is still early in the overall trial process, but we are hoping for similar results at Legends Casino.
Lucky Stiff Blackjack is a side bet installed on a regular blackjack game. Game details can be found here: Lucky Stiff Blackjack
Player may play more than one hand as follows:
1. Players must play twice the table minimum for two hands (on each hand), i.e., on a $5 game, both bets must be at least $10 per hand.
2. For three hands, it would be 5X the table minimum per hand, i.e., on a $5 game, each bet will be at least $25 per hand.
3. For more than three hands, the Dealer must get manager approval.
Many times I have been at a table during slow times, when a player wanted to spread to 2 hands, and after being told he must double his bets, he continues just playing one spot. I have been told I had to double my bets, and not so nicely, when I was only player at the table and had been so for over an hour.
No such rules when playing slots, vp, or roulette !
Quote: BuzzardDon't want to highjack this thread, but I have to ask ? Legends has this rule :
Player may play more than one hand as follows:
1. Players must play twice the table minimum for two hands (on each hand), i.e., on a $5 game, both bets must be at least $10 per hand.
2. For three hands, it would be 5X the table minimum per hand, i.e., on a $5 game, each bet will be at least $25 per hand.
3. For more than three hands, the Dealer must get manager approval.
Many times I have been at a table during slow times, when a player wanted to spread to 2 hands, and after being told he must double his bets, he continues just playing one spot. I have been told I had to double my bets, and not so nicely, when I was only player at the table and had been so for over an hour.
No such rules when playing slots, vp, or roulette !
What is the purpose of that rule?
Quote: michael99000What is the purpose of that rule?
I suppose it's to get people to play more or allow someone who might play more a shot at the table. Instead of someone playing two spots at 5$ when someone MIGHT play 10$ or more when it's full, at the worst you get same action and have a shot at getting more action. After all every seat is a piece of real estate to the casino. I personally like the rule.
Quote: beerseasonI suppose it's to get people to play more or allow someone who might play more a shot at the table. Instead of someone playing two spots at 5$ when someone MIGHT play 10$ or more when it's full, at the worst you get same action and have a shot at getting more action. After all every seat is a piece of real estate to the casino. I personally like the rule.
That makes sense. I always need to remember that pretty much every casino rule can somehow be tied back to them wanting more money in the bet circles.
Quote: michael99000That makes sense. I always need to remember that pretty much every casino rule can somehow be tied back to them wanting more money in the bet circles.
How exactly does 6/5 Blackjack get more money in the bet circles ?
Quote: BuzzardHow exactly does 6/5 Blackjack get more money in the bet circles ?
That rule just moves a larger % of the money that's in the circle... Into the tray.
Who knows, maybe if enough people stop playing bj because of 6/5 then casinos will stop dealing it. But the fact that it's spreading like wildfire tells me that getting people to play it hasn't been an issue.
Quote: BuzzardDon't want to highjack this thread, but I have to ask ? Legends has this rule :
Player may play more than one hand as follows:
1. Players must play twice the table minimum for two hands (on each hand), i.e., on a $5 game, both bets must be at least $10 per hand.
2. For three hands, it would be 5X the table minimum per hand, i.e., on a $5 game, each bet will be at least $25 per hand.
3. For more than three hands, the Dealer must get manager approval.
Many times I have been at a table during slow times, when a player wanted to spread to 2 hands, and after being told he must double his bets, he continues just playing one spot. I have been told I had to double my bets, and not so nicely, when I was only player at the table and had been so for over an hour.
No such rules when playing slots, vp, or roulette !
This is also (rule 1) the rule at Harrah's LV for PGP; 2x for 2 hands, 2 hands max. They enforce this because (they say) in return they don't force you to give up one hand if another player wants on the table; those spots are taken unless you voluntarily give one up. Many other places I play you're only allowed to have 2 hands if there's not someone else wanting to play. I can see it both ways, since I've sometimes been the person wanting to play with no spots available, but I generally only play PGP if I can play 2 hands, so I pay the price for doing so.
Congrats on the new placement, and especially the featured move at the Caribbean! That's a great sign!
You both deserve success and your persistence and determination will give you every chance of getting there.
The game is performing well at all locations with good player participation and holds averaging 20.4% across all installations.
We have observed that players are far more likely to stand on their stiff hands in order to preserve their chance at a 5-1 payout if the dealer subsequently busts. This type of player action results in more deviations from basic strategy and drives a higher win for the house on the main BJ bet as well as the Lucky Stiff bet. We believe that is the reason Lucky Stiff is holding 20%+ when most operators are happy with BJ holds in the 18% - 19% range after the addition of a decent side bet.
ZCore13
Good luck with Lucky Stiff.
Quote: ParadigmLucky and I are pleased to announce that Lucky Stiff has been re-installed at 7 Cedars Casino in Sequim, WA. We now have tables live at four properties with several more on the way.
The game is performing well at all locations with good player participation and holds averaging 20.4% across all installations.
We have observed that players are far more likely to stand on their stiff hands in order to preserve their chance at a 5-1 payout if the dealer subsequently busts. This type of player action results in more deviations from basic strategy and drives a higher win for the house on the main BJ bet as well as the Lucky Stiff bet. We believe that is the reason Lucky Stiff is holding 20%+ when most operators are happy with BJ holds in the 18% - 19% range after the addition of a decent side bet.
Congrats Guys!
Quote: ParadigmLucky and I are pleased to announce that Lucky Stiff has been re-installed at 7 Cedars Casino in Sequim, WA. We now have tables live at four properties with several more on the way.
Congratulations to you two. Independent developer's 4 placements is revenue-equivalent to 20 - 25 placements when a distributor is used. You could declare to have 20+ tables, congratulations.
Initially the game will be open mainly on weekends but we hope player action will lead to more open days similar to what occurred at Casino Caribbean (in Kirkland, WA) where Lucky Stiff is now open daily.
Lucky Stiff continues to put up strong drop & hold numbers at current installations. Great American Casino Kent is our 5th installation.
CONGRATULATIONS.
Quote: ParadigmLucky & I are pleased to report that Lucky Stiff Blackjack opened this week at Great American Casino in Kent, WA. Great American has 4 locations in WA.
Initially the game will be open mainly on weekends but we hope player action will lead to more open days similar to what occurred at Casino Caribbean (in Kirkland, WA) where Lucky Stiff is now open daily.
Lucky Stiff continues to put up strong drop & hold numbers at current installations. Great American Casino Kent is our 5th installation.
Hi Paradigm & Lucky,
It is nice to hear your games are doing will.
Quote: BuzzardGood luck is often when hard work and opportunity meet. Of course it helps to have a partner named LUCKY!
Thanks Buzz.....I am the "lucky one" in our partnership for sure!! Creatively, Lucky and I work really well together and we have Teliot to thank for putting us in touch 5 years ago.
Quote: ParadigmThanks Buzz.....I am the "lucky one" in our partnership for sure!! Creatively, Lucky and I work really well together and we have Teliot to thank for putting us in touch 5 years ago.
I dispute the first statement and confirm the last two. :-)
Thanks Buzz and all for the well wishes. Let me also announce that we'll open our 6th table at Resorts Casino in Tunica, MS, next week as part of its grand re-opening on Friday, June 27th. Lots of VIP invitations going out for the weekend, which includes an Oak Ridge Boys concert and a remodeled casino floor and buffet.
So Tring and Mikey, let me know if you'll be in town that week or the next.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Congrats again gentlemen. See you at G2E?
ZCore13
Thanks and yes sir ... God willing!
Quote: LuckyI dispute the first statement and confirm the last two. :-)
Thanks Buzz and all for the well wishes. Let me also announce that we'll open our 6th table at Resorts Casino in Tunica, MS, next week as part of its grand re-opening on Friday, June 27th. Lots of VIP invitations going out for the weekend, which includes an Oak Ridge Boys concert and a remodeled casino floor and buffet.
So Tring and Mikey, let me know if you'll be in town that week or the next.
June 27th? Bah...I think g/f has to work that weekend. We might be going this weekend possibly... :-\
And congrats on the new installs! But Resorts Tunica is a tougher nut that's for sure. I dunno if the "remodeled" floor/buffet is going to help matters. On weekdays table games are a graveyard usually. And it's mostly min bettors. But then again, min bettors do love their side bets... ;)
Quote: tringlomaneJune 27th? Bah...I think g/f has to work that weekend. We might be going this weekend possibly... :-\
And congrats on the new installs! But Resorts Tunica is a tougher nut that's for sure. I dunno if the "remodeled" floor/buffet is going to help matters. On weekdays table games are a graveyard usually. And it's mostly min bettors. But then again, min bettors do love their side bets... ;)
Thanks Tring ... I won't get there until Mon night (6/23), so will probably miss you this trip.
You're right about player activity at Resorts, at least historically over the past few years. But new management has come in recently and made some positive changes. A new, popular and engaging GM has inspired a new attitude and mindset at the property. His move to hire a new Director of Table Games and Player Development has resulted in bringing back a graveyard shift, adding player BJ tournaments and other promotions, and improving the morale of dealers and floor personnel -- not to mention adding a couple of new games, something that hasn't happened at Resorts in years!
But no doubt it is a 'tough nut' to crack in this struggling market.
Quote: ParadigmLucky & I are pleased to report that Lucky Stiff Blackjack opened this week at Great American Casino in Kent, WA. Great American has 4 locations in WA.
Initially the game will be open mainly on weekends but we hope player action will lead to more open days similar to what occurred at Casino Caribbean (in Kirkland, WA) where Lucky Stiff is now open daily.
Lucky Stiff continues to put up strong drop & hold numbers at current installations. Great American Casino Kent is our 5th installation.
I've played at the Great American Casino location in Tukwila, but not Kent. The one in Tukwila is very nicely decorated in a retro American style if I remember correctly, and just generally looked like a very classy place. Unfortunately their DD game was double on 9-10-11 only and NDAS, which I found to be...excessive.
Anyway, good luck.
Quote: ParadigmLucky & I are pleased to report that Lucky Stiff Blackjack opened this week at Great American Casino in Kent, WA. Great American has 4 locations in WA.
Initially the game will be open mainly on weekends but we hope player action will lead to more open days similar to what occurred at Casino Caribbean (in Kirkland, WA) where Lucky Stiff is now open daily.
Lucky Stiff continues to put up strong drop & hold numbers at current installations. Great American Casino Kent is our 5th installation.
I've played at the Great American Casino location in Tukwila, but not Kent. The one in Tukwila is very nicely decorated in a retro American style if I remember correctly, and just generally looked like a very classy place. Unfortunately their DD game was double on 9-10-11 only and NDAS, which I found to be...excessive.
Anyway, good luck.
But all GA locations are above average for WA card rooms IMHO. Kent is in a nicer area than Tukwila & the Kent Police Dept has a station at the other end of a shared parking lot, so you definitely feel safe leaving in the wee hours of the AM.
Their Everett location has one of the few House Money BJ side bets I have seen in WA, so management isn't afraid to try new games on the floor. And clearly they are giving Lucky Stiff a shot, so we love them for that!
Quote: ParadigmSo what are the chances an Admin can take this "future of table games" & "online gaming" and put it on another thread with an appropriate title? There is a hijaking protocol out there somewhere.
Sorry about that, Paradigm. Guilty as charged. Future of Gaming discussion split to HERE.
Quote: NowTheSerpent
Congratulations. I was reading about this bet and Mulligan 21 at your site. Looks like good clean fun, a nice fast-paced side bet.
Thanks Serpent ... and welcome to the forum.
