AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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December 18th, 2013 at 7:52:39 AM permalink
Quote: Riva

It is fun but still, it's a lot of work. We have one event that takes place in a huge outdoor tent on campus over the 4-day Memorial Day weekend. That one is like a full week of 14 hour days.

I'm semi-retired so I have time to focus on this stuff. My goal is to make the games fun for the players and profitable for the house. The only way to do that is with defined processes and tight controls. Otherwise, you might as well put cash in an envelope, drop it in a basket, and hope it's still there where it reaches the altar.

Do you get paid for this?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Riva
Riva
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December 18th, 2013 at 7:55:16 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

These "Vegas Nights" have virtually disappeared in Michigan now that there are charity poker rooms everywhere.



I am also from Michigan and am VERY familiar with this issue. I have several solutions for these matters that i plan to pursue in the Legislature.

The poker rooms are soon to be extinct and the charities have nobody to blame but themselves!
Riva
Riva
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December 18th, 2013 at 7:57:10 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Do you get paid for this?



No, I like the school. I feel you have to volunteer somewhere. Plus the money goes to a really good cause.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 18th, 2013 at 7:59:10 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Riva
Riva
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December 18th, 2013 at 8:12:38 AM permalink
Quote: Dween

This is one of the reasons I have volunteered to be the Blackjack "Pit Boss" at my school/church's charity gaming night. I was tired of seeing sloppy/drunk dealers, incorrect payouts, etc. I have been battling against them for a few years, and still haven't won some of those fights... it seems that some dealers would volunteer because they could have free beer. WHILE DEALING.

I try to put in as much control as I can, and attempt to keep track of what dealers make/lose money so I can figure out why it's happening. Maybe this year I'll go iron-fist and tell them it's my way or the highway for the Blackjack Pit. More work for me, but more control.

Also, your reinvented game reminds me of Bang. It is Beat the Dealer with a field, over/under 7, and Big 6 & 8 bets added on. More action than straight Beat the Dealer. Your game idea sounds interesting, but I'm wondering what Craps bet you would add for a 3-dice game.



I have not always been in charge of our events but I know your pain. For the first few years I volunteered there i dealt craps on a table a person made using a 4'x8' sheet of plywood. You could only get about 6 players on the table and the house would not allow any bet greater than $1. The MOST we ever made in one night was $200. It was torture. Finally, I said "for $200, I'll just write the school a check!"

Shortly thereafter, I purchased a used 14' craps table for $3,000. Everybody screamed that it would take 25 years to recover the costs of the table. The VERY FIRST night we had the table in use, we recovered the $3,000 cost by 10:00 PM!!! This was done by raising the wagers to $1-$5, shave the payouts on the prop bets and hire 3 pro dealers for the night ($150 total) . We've had the table for about 10 years now and it regularly brings in about $5,000 per-night. That's probably 50 nights of action.
Riva
Riva
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December 18th, 2013 at 8:17:33 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

They just need better oversight. The ones I'm familiar with and the one I worked at are run very strictly by the rules from the state. But I agree, it got very out of hand for a while in a lot of locations.



What they need is to be out of business, in my opinion. The abuse that goes in occurs because the charity has no skin in the game. the poker room provides the building, the tables, the dealers and the charity merely provides a license. I'll post my position paper on these matters if you are interested. The bottom line is that charities should invest in their own game and control their own destiny. Currently, they do neither.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 18th, 2013 at 8:31:07 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
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December 18th, 2013 at 8:41:56 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I agree. The charity in most places only get 50% after paying the dealers and other expenses. The companies that run the rooms are making a killing. One thing in this situation is that the charities assume no risk. If by chance there is a losing night, and we had a few, the company running it assumes the loss.

One of the nights, our room manager foolishly let a known big player bet 3 x $25 at blackjack. Our normal limits were $2-$10. And as bad as he plays (I know him very well), and with the crappy charity rules, he took us for over $2600 in a very short time in one night. Of course we won it back from him in subsequent nights, but that particular charity hardly made a profit.



I've never heard of these places. So does a charity "buy" a night or series of nights by getting a permit issued, but the poker room runs a reqular schedule in a permanent facility with regular staff? "Tonight, you're playing for the March of Dimes". The next night, "Tonight, you're playing for the American Heart Association." Like that? And they play regular casino games for real money? (I get what Riva's doing)
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 18th, 2013 at 8:53:15 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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December 18th, 2013 at 8:53:44 AM permalink
Quote: Riva

Nothing about this game is proprietary. All I have done is to take a few bets from chuck-a-luck, one from craps and a few from sic bo, had a custom layout made to make it look professional and, made a new game, which i will still call chuck-a-luck (on steroids).

Still, it's a brand new game which, to the best of my knowledge, nobody had put these various bets from 3 unique games in this configuration. My question is, how does one go about determining if this idea has value and, I guess the word for it is "patentable?"

Thoughts?

Thank you


This is almost certainly not patentable, not if you -- as the putative inventor -- consider it to be nothing more than taking a few bets from game A and game B and allowing the players to bet on any combination of them. Patents must be novel, non-obvious, and useful. One of the standards for obviousness, upheld by the Supreme Court and codified in USPTO procedures, is that "[t]he combination of familiar elements according to known methods is likely to be obvious when it does no more than yield predictable results." KSR, 550 U.S. at ___, 82 USPQ2d at 1395. See MPEP 2141 at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2141.html

In short, by combining known prior bets and getting what you'd expect from that combination (a game with multiple bet spots), a patent is unlikely.

The question of whether it has value is different. There are lots of unpatented games in operation today that make plenty of money and therefore have value. There's no reason yours can't be one of them, and it sounds like it already is. However, without additional IP protection, you have little recourse for earning royalties from any other companies who copy it, and the gaming industry is full of examples where one company released a product but another copied it and became more successful. You should talk to an IP attorney to discuss options (other than a patent) for how you may obtain whatever protection is available.

On the other hand, if you want to offer a patented game for your casino nights, PM me. I have plenty.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

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