SUPER-AMP POKER™
September 1st, 2013 at 11:54:59 PM
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SUPER-AMP POKER™ is a house-banked, poker-based game. The game is played with a standard 52-card deck of playing cards, and is played on a SUPER-AMP POKER™ layout; with betting-spots for six players.
Object of Game
To get a better Suit Hand, Point Hand and Rank Hand than the dealer’s; and/or get a pair or better.
Rules of Play
1. Players place their Ante Bet and/or Poker Bet.
a) Ante Bet – This is an initial wager required for a player to play against the dealer’s Suit Hand, Point Hand and Rank Hand. This wager must be placed before any cards are dealt. To place this wager, a player must place their wager inside the circle labeled “ANTE”, in front of them. This wager wins, if the player’s Point Hand consists of more points than the dealer’s Point Hand. This wager loses, if the player’s Point Hand consists of fewer points than the dealer’s Point Hand. This wager pushes, if the player’s Point Hand consists of the same number of points as the dealer’s Point Hand. The point values of the cards in this game are the same as in the game of Blackjack; with the exception that all Ace cards have a point value of 11 only.
b) Poker Bet – This is a wager that doesn’t play against the dealer’s hands; instead it’s a wager that wins if the player receives a pair or better when using their five cards. The five cards a player is dealt is used for the player’s Poker Hand. This wager loses if the player doesn’t receive a pair or better for their Poker Hand. This wager must be placed before cards are dealt. To place this wager, a player must place their wager inside the circle labeled “POKER”, in front of them.
2. Dealer deals all players and themselves five cards each; cards are dealt face-down.
3. Players view their cards.
4. Players place their Mid Bet if they have an Ante Bet placed, and only if they want to continue playing against the dealer’s hands. If a player doesn’t want to continue playing against the dealer’s hands, they can fold by not placing a Mid Bet. If a player folds, all bets placed that game by that player are forfeited except for the player’s Poker Bet; their Poker Bet stays in play to win or lose.
a) Mid Bet – This is a continuation wager for a player to continue playing against the dealer’s Suit Hand, Point Hand and Rank Hand. To place this wager, a player must place their wager inside the circle labeled “MID”, in front of them. The amount of this wager must be between 1 to 3 times player’s wagered Ante Bet. This wager wins, if the player’s Rank Hand is ranked higher than the dealer’s Rank Hand. This wager loses, if the player’s Rank Hand is ranked lower than the dealer’s Rank Hand. This wager pushes, if the player’s Rank Hand and the dealer’s Rank Hand are ranked the same. Cards are ranked, from lowest to highest, as follows: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K, and A. Rank Hands are ranked in the same manner as in Poker, with the exception that the Rank Hands don’t need to have the same number of cards as each other. Example: player’s Rank Hand consists of 8-6 and the dealer’s Rank Hand consists of 8-5-4, the player’s hand is ranked higher; even though the player’s Rank Hand consists of fewer cards than the dealer’s Rank Hand. This is because, the 8 cards are of the same rank, and the 6 is a higher ranked card than the 5 card; the next card of 4 isn't looked at.
5. Dealer turns their top card face-up. This card is referred to as the Dealer’s up-card. The outcome of the Dealer’s up-card determines the House-Set Suit and House-Set Rank for the game. Example: the dealer’s up-card is the 5 of hearts; the House-Set Suit for the game is hearts, and the House-Set Rank for the game is 5.
6. Players place their Play Bet if they have a Mid Bet, and only if they want to continue playing against the dealer’s hands. If a player doesn’t want to continue playing against the dealer’s hands, they can fold by not placing a Play Bet. If a player folds, all bets placed that game by that player are forfeited except for the player’s Poker Bet; their Poker Bet stays in play to win or lose.
a) Play Bet – This is a continuation wager for a player to continue playing against the dealer’s Suit Hand, Point Hand and Rank Hand. This wager must be placed after the dealer turns their top card, face-up. This card is referred to as the dealer’s up-card. To place this wager, a player must place their wager inside the circle labeled “PLAY”, in front of them. The amount of this wager must be equal to player’s wagered Mid Bet. This wager wins, if the player’s Suit Hand consists of more House-Set Suit cards than the dealer’s Suit Hand. This wager loses, if the player’s Suit Hand consists of fewer House-Set Suit cards than the dealer’s Suit Hand. This wager pushes, if the player’s Suit-Hand consists of the same number of House-Set Suit cards as the dealer’s Suit-Hand.
7. Players have their hands set, using either the Dealer-Set Method or Player-Set Method.
Dealer-Set Method
If a player chooses to have their hand set using the Dealer-Set Method, the player must place their cards face-down under their Play Bet. The player’s hands will be set by the dealer as follows:
a. All cards of the same suit as the House-Set Suit, that are of lower rank than the House-Set Rank, will make-up the Suit Hand.
b. All cards of a higher rank than the House-Set Rank, regardless of suit, will make-up the Point Hand.
c. All cards of a different suit as the House-Set Suit, of which are of the same or lower rank than the House-Set Rank, will make-up the Rank Hand.
Player–Set Method
If a player chooses to have their hand set using the Player-Set Method, the player’s hand will be set by the player as follows:
a. All cards of the same suit as the House-Set Suit may be used to make-up a player’s Suit Hand. All cards used for a player’s Suit Hand must be placed face-down inside the square labeled “SUIT HAND”.
b. All cards of the same rank or of lower rank than the House-Set Rank may be used to make-up a player’s Rank Hand. All cards used for a player’s Rank Hand must be placed face-down inside the square labeled “RANK HAND”.
c. All cards of higher rank than the House-Set Rank may be used to make-up a player’s Point Hand. All cards used for a player’s Point Hand must be placed face-down inside the square labeled “POINT HAND”.
Note: Each of a player’s cards can only be used once, by using each card as either part of their Suit Hand, Rank Hand or Point Hand.
8. Dealer sets their hand following the Dealer-Set Method; with the exception that the dealer’s up-card is used in the dealer’s Suit Hand and Rank Hand.
9. All losing bets are taking and all winning bets are paid; starting from the player closest to the dealer’s right.
10. A new game begins.
Pay-tables and layout examples can be found here.
[IMG]http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s558/allinriverking/playersarea_zpsf37bd2ea.png[/IMG]
Final pay-tables are still being worked out, as is player strategies.
What is interesting about this game, is that some times it benefits you to have the cards set using the Dealer-Set Method, and other times it benefits you to use the Player-Set Method. You never know until the dealer reveals all of his hand. Also, betting high on a good rank hand can backfire, if the later revealed house-set rank is lower than the cards that make-up your rank hand; as those cards will end up not playing in your rank hand. Game speed is around Pai-Gow speed. But, by offering two set methods, even a novice player can play; even in the blind.
copyright 2013 O'Brien. Patent Pending.
Object of Game
To get a better Suit Hand, Point Hand and Rank Hand than the dealer’s; and/or get a pair or better.
Rules of Play
1. Players place their Ante Bet and/or Poker Bet.
a) Ante Bet – This is an initial wager required for a player to play against the dealer’s Suit Hand, Point Hand and Rank Hand. This wager must be placed before any cards are dealt. To place this wager, a player must place their wager inside the circle labeled “ANTE”, in front of them. This wager wins, if the player’s Point Hand consists of more points than the dealer’s Point Hand. This wager loses, if the player’s Point Hand consists of fewer points than the dealer’s Point Hand. This wager pushes, if the player’s Point Hand consists of the same number of points as the dealer’s Point Hand. The point values of the cards in this game are the same as in the game of Blackjack; with the exception that all Ace cards have a point value of 11 only.
b) Poker Bet – This is a wager that doesn’t play against the dealer’s hands; instead it’s a wager that wins if the player receives a pair or better when using their five cards. The five cards a player is dealt is used for the player’s Poker Hand. This wager loses if the player doesn’t receive a pair or better for their Poker Hand. This wager must be placed before cards are dealt. To place this wager, a player must place their wager inside the circle labeled “POKER”, in front of them.
2. Dealer deals all players and themselves five cards each; cards are dealt face-down.
3. Players view their cards.
4. Players place their Mid Bet if they have an Ante Bet placed, and only if they want to continue playing against the dealer’s hands. If a player doesn’t want to continue playing against the dealer’s hands, they can fold by not placing a Mid Bet. If a player folds, all bets placed that game by that player are forfeited except for the player’s Poker Bet; their Poker Bet stays in play to win or lose.
a) Mid Bet – This is a continuation wager for a player to continue playing against the dealer’s Suit Hand, Point Hand and Rank Hand. To place this wager, a player must place their wager inside the circle labeled “MID”, in front of them. The amount of this wager must be between 1 to 3 times player’s wagered Ante Bet. This wager wins, if the player’s Rank Hand is ranked higher than the dealer’s Rank Hand. This wager loses, if the player’s Rank Hand is ranked lower than the dealer’s Rank Hand. This wager pushes, if the player’s Rank Hand and the dealer’s Rank Hand are ranked the same. Cards are ranked, from lowest to highest, as follows: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K, and A. Rank Hands are ranked in the same manner as in Poker, with the exception that the Rank Hands don’t need to have the same number of cards as each other. Example: player’s Rank Hand consists of 8-6 and the dealer’s Rank Hand consists of 8-5-4, the player’s hand is ranked higher; even though the player’s Rank Hand consists of fewer cards than the dealer’s Rank Hand. This is because, the 8 cards are of the same rank, and the 6 is a higher ranked card than the 5 card; the next card of 4 isn't looked at.
5. Dealer turns their top card face-up. This card is referred to as the Dealer’s up-card. The outcome of the Dealer’s up-card determines the House-Set Suit and House-Set Rank for the game. Example: the dealer’s up-card is the 5 of hearts; the House-Set Suit for the game is hearts, and the House-Set Rank for the game is 5.
6. Players place their Play Bet if they have a Mid Bet, and only if they want to continue playing against the dealer’s hands. If a player doesn’t want to continue playing against the dealer’s hands, they can fold by not placing a Play Bet. If a player folds, all bets placed that game by that player are forfeited except for the player’s Poker Bet; their Poker Bet stays in play to win or lose.
a) Play Bet – This is a continuation wager for a player to continue playing against the dealer’s Suit Hand, Point Hand and Rank Hand. This wager must be placed after the dealer turns their top card, face-up. This card is referred to as the dealer’s up-card. To place this wager, a player must place their wager inside the circle labeled “PLAY”, in front of them. The amount of this wager must be equal to player’s wagered Mid Bet. This wager wins, if the player’s Suit Hand consists of more House-Set Suit cards than the dealer’s Suit Hand. This wager loses, if the player’s Suit Hand consists of fewer House-Set Suit cards than the dealer’s Suit Hand. This wager pushes, if the player’s Suit-Hand consists of the same number of House-Set Suit cards as the dealer’s Suit-Hand.
7. Players have their hands set, using either the Dealer-Set Method or Player-Set Method.
Dealer-Set Method
If a player chooses to have their hand set using the Dealer-Set Method, the player must place their cards face-down under their Play Bet. The player’s hands will be set by the dealer as follows:
a. All cards of the same suit as the House-Set Suit, that are of lower rank than the House-Set Rank, will make-up the Suit Hand.
b. All cards of a higher rank than the House-Set Rank, regardless of suit, will make-up the Point Hand.
c. All cards of a different suit as the House-Set Suit, of which are of the same or lower rank than the House-Set Rank, will make-up the Rank Hand.
Player–Set Method
If a player chooses to have their hand set using the Player-Set Method, the player’s hand will be set by the player as follows:
a. All cards of the same suit as the House-Set Suit may be used to make-up a player’s Suit Hand. All cards used for a player’s Suit Hand must be placed face-down inside the square labeled “SUIT HAND”.
b. All cards of the same rank or of lower rank than the House-Set Rank may be used to make-up a player’s Rank Hand. All cards used for a player’s Rank Hand must be placed face-down inside the square labeled “RANK HAND”.
c. All cards of higher rank than the House-Set Rank may be used to make-up a player’s Point Hand. All cards used for a player’s Point Hand must be placed face-down inside the square labeled “POINT HAND”.
Note: Each of a player’s cards can only be used once, by using each card as either part of their Suit Hand, Rank Hand or Point Hand.
8. Dealer sets their hand following the Dealer-Set Method; with the exception that the dealer’s up-card is used in the dealer’s Suit Hand and Rank Hand.
9. All losing bets are taking and all winning bets are paid; starting from the player closest to the dealer’s right.
10. A new game begins.
Pay-tables and layout examples can be found here.
[IMG]http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s558/allinriverking/playersarea_zpsf37bd2ea.png[/IMG]
Final pay-tables are still being worked out, as is player strategies.
What is interesting about this game, is that some times it benefits you to have the cards set using the Dealer-Set Method, and other times it benefits you to use the Player-Set Method. You never know until the dealer reveals all of his hand. Also, betting high on a good rank hand can backfire, if the later revealed house-set rank is lower than the cards that make-up your rank hand; as those cards will end up not playing in your rank hand. Game speed is around Pai-Gow speed. But, by offering two set methods, even a novice player can play; even in the blind.
copyright 2013 O'Brien. Patent Pending.
September 2nd, 2013 at 12:20:24 AM
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I'm afraid this is way over the average ploppy's head. Hell, I am struggling to understand what is going on but it's late.
September 2nd, 2013 at 1:11:06 AM
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Quote: tringlomaneI'm afraid this is way over the average ploppy's head. Hell, I am struggling to understand what is going on but it's late.
Here is example hand:
Player bets ante bet @ $5 and poker bet @$5
Player gets 5 cards dealt face-down as well as dealer
Player views his cards - they are 6h,6d,6c,4d, 4h
Player has full house so he knows he won poker bet, so he bets $15 max on mid bet
Dealer turns up his top card, this is the dealer's up-card, it's the 5d, because of this the house-set suit is diamonds and the house-set rank is 5.
Player bets $15 on play bet
Player sets his hand using the player-set method, by placing his 6d in his suit hand, places his 4d and 4h in his rank hand and places his 6h and 6c in his point hand
This means players hands are as follows: suit hand has 1 house-set suit card, rank hand is a pair of 4's, and point hand is 12
Dealer turns up rest of his hand, his hand is as follows: 5d, 3h, 3c, 2c, and 6s
Dealers hands are as follows: suit hand has 1 house-set suit card, rank hand is a pair of 3's with a 5 and a 2, and point hand is 6
So, this means player's suit bet pushes because they have same amount of house-set suit cards played in their suit hand, rank hand wins 2 to 1 because player's rank hand was ranked higher and contained a pair, and point hand wins 1 to 1 because player's point hand contained at least one more point than the dealer's point hand
The player's poker bet also wins 40 to 1, because player had a full house. The poker bet doesn't play against dealer's hand at all.
September 2nd, 2013 at 11:26:19 AM
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My initial reaction is like Tring's.....there are a lot of new concepts in this game and I think it is too complicated for the average patron to grasp....they will pass and play something that has an easier learning curve than Super Amp Poker or play a game they already know. I am definitely a new game concept type of guy.....this one is just "too foreign", as PaiGowDan likes to say :-).
September 2nd, 2013 at 12:26:54 PM
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Quote: ParadigmMy initial reaction is like Tring's.....there are a lot of new concepts in this game and I think it is too complicated for the average patron to grasp....they will pass and play something that has an easier learning curve than Super Amp Poker or play a game they already know. I am definitely a new game concept type of guy.....this one is just "too foreign", as PaiGowDan likes to say :-).
Well u can only recycle the same ideas over so many times. The game is easier than people r readin in too. I over explained it because it is a new game.
Who wouldnt want a new refreshing game that can be picked up easily. Once the game is seen in action.
September 2nd, 2013 at 12:27:38 PM
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I like complicated poker games. This is interesting, but the hand you use as an example would be very, very rare, I think, in that it allows you to win all 4 bets. Great as an example, but the vast majority of the time, I would think you're going to be hedging by default on 1 or 2 of the 3 hands, and lose those bets even if 1/3 of it comes in. I think that, except in very rare cases, I would set all my cards in the point area since I already have a disadvantage in the rank and suit hands, hoping for odds to cover the 2-6 unit loss in the other two categories. A full poker hand of use would go fully into the rank pot, losing the point and suit hands for 2-4 units, likely 4 if I'm staying for a full hand, since that's the one that pays odds for a poker-valued hand. Most 5 card hands are either high-card or a pair at best, so while I get you're paying odds, there would be a high fold rate resulting in a 2 unit loss, and very costly to find out on a hand like that whether the dealer's suit or rank will be favorable having to bet the mid before seeing an upcard. I could be wrong. I would try out a simulator program, but in real life I think I would be blown out of the game very quickly. Good, though, that the poker hand stands alone on its pay.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 2nd, 2013 at 12:31:26 PM
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Beach, the dealer has a lot of chance havin to put his cards in his point hand. Because if the card in a dealers hand is of higher ranked than his up card he must put it in his point hand which happens tremendously.
September 2nd, 2013 at 12:46:32 PM
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Quote: allinriverkingWho wouldnt want a new refreshing game that can be picked up easily. Once the game is seen in action.
Quote: allinriverkinga. All cards of the same suit as the House-Set Suit, that are of lower rank than the House-Set Rank, will make-up the Suit Hand.
b. All cards of a higher rank than the House-Set Rank, regardless of suit, will make-up the Point Hand.
c. All cards of a different suit as the House-Set Suit, of which are of the same or lower rank than the House-Set Rank, will make-up the Rank Hand.
I hear what you are saying, but a., b. & c. are not going to be "picked up easily".....you have three responses and the best one is "I like complicated poker games..."......I appreciate your creativeness and don't want to get in to a debate on the merits, but if you think this concept is easy for a casino patron of average intelligence, I think you are mistaken. But all the best to you on moving this forward.
September 2nd, 2013 at 12:54:13 PM
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I do understand that, river, and it's a disadvantage to the player as well that the dealer gets to count his upcard not just for suit and rank but also as points. I don't know what the overall HE is on the base game, exclusive of the poker bet (which operates independently), but that method seems like it's almost insurmountable, unless the odds pays make up for it. Dealer's effectively playing with 7 cards against your 5, and the higher the upcard, the greater the disadvantage to the player. If you have a nothing hand with 4 hearts (for example), not only do you have a less-than-25% chance of getting a favorable up-card (because you used up 4 of the 13 available), you don't find out until committing to the mid bet (3 of the 4 unit minimum to reach a full hand resolution) before you know whether you have a chance, which is still going to come at the expense of the other two bets, because with 4 set in the suit, the other 2 will almost certainly lose, as will the poker bet (you have nothing) for a total of 3 lost against a less than 20% chance of a 5 to 1 payout (assuming the dealer only has 1 in that suit; 2 and the payout brings a net loss anyway). 1 will for sure - the dealer has at least 1 card for each, where you must choose to set either rank or point and lose the other, likely both. Sorry if that's a run-on mess, just thinking it through.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 2nd, 2013 at 1:10:02 PM
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I guess the short version would be, why not let the cards talk? Except for what might be an unforgivably high error rate with dealers trying to decipher that for each hand, that would be fairer.. you already have to beat the dealer to win the rank and points bets, and dealer sets the "trump" suit, so they have at least 1 in every case. We play lots of hi-low split games where you can win both sides with a nominal 7 card hand set both ways; this could be similar in spirit.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 2nd, 2013 at 6:22:59 PM
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beach,
after re-reading my original posts, when I pasted and copied sections early this morning to the posts, I copied and pasted the wrong section. The dealer's up card can only be used for the dealer's rank hand and suit hand. It can't be part of their point hand, because only cards with a higher rank than the house-set rank can be part of the point hand. I edited it to reflect the proper way.
after re-reading my original posts, when I pasted and copied sections early this morning to the posts, I copied and pasted the wrong section. The dealer's up card can only be used for the dealer's rank hand and suit hand. It can't be part of their point hand, because only cards with a higher rank than the house-set rank can be part of the point hand. I edited it to reflect the proper way.
September 2nd, 2013 at 7:15:40 PM
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I hope this explains the game clearly, it is straight-forward
Player places ante and/or poker bet.
Player/Dealer receives 5 cards each, dealt face-down.
Player views their cards
Player places mid bet or folds ante bet.
Dealer turns up top card, this is the dealer's up-card, the suit of this card is the house-set suit, the rank of this card is the house-set rank.
Player places play bet or folds ante and mid bets.
Player lets dealer set their hand using the dealer-set method, or the player sets their hand following the player-set method.
When player selects player-set method,
a) Player places all cards of higher rank (than the house-set rank) that are of different suit (than the house-set suit), in their point hand.
b) Player places all cards of higher rank (than the house-set rank) that are of same suit (as the house-set suit), in their point hand or suit hand.
c) Player places all cards of same/lower rank (than the house-set rank) that are of different suit (than the house-set suit), in their rank hand.
d) Player places all cards of lower rank (than the house-set rank) that are of same suit (as the house-set suit), in their suit hand or rank hand.
When player selects dealer-set method,
a) Dealer places player’s cards of higher rank (than the house-set rank) that are of different suit (than the house-set suit), in player’s point hand.
b) Dealer places player’s cards of higher rank (than the house-set rank) that are of same suit (as the house-set suit), in player’s point hand.
c) Dealer places player’s cards of same/lower rank (than the house-set rank) that are of different suit (than the house-set suit), in player’s rank hand.
d) Dealer places player’s cards of lower rank (than the house-set rank) that are of same suit (as the house-set suit), in player’s suit hand.
Dealer sets their hand in the same way a player’s hand is set when the dealer-set method is selected; except the dealer's up-card is used in the dealer's suit and rank hand.
Dealer takes all losing bets and pays winning bets from right to left, starting with player closest to the dealer’s right.
A new game begins.
Player places ante and/or poker bet.
Player/Dealer receives 5 cards each, dealt face-down.
Player views their cards
Player places mid bet or folds ante bet.
Dealer turns up top card, this is the dealer's up-card, the suit of this card is the house-set suit, the rank of this card is the house-set rank.
Player places play bet or folds ante and mid bets.
Player lets dealer set their hand using the dealer-set method, or the player sets their hand following the player-set method.
When player selects player-set method,
a) Player places all cards of higher rank (than the house-set rank) that are of different suit (than the house-set suit), in their point hand.
b) Player places all cards of higher rank (than the house-set rank) that are of same suit (as the house-set suit), in their point hand or suit hand.
c) Player places all cards of same/lower rank (than the house-set rank) that are of different suit (than the house-set suit), in their rank hand.
d) Player places all cards of lower rank (than the house-set rank) that are of same suit (as the house-set suit), in their suit hand or rank hand.
When player selects dealer-set method,
a) Dealer places player’s cards of higher rank (than the house-set rank) that are of different suit (than the house-set suit), in player’s point hand.
b) Dealer places player’s cards of higher rank (than the house-set rank) that are of same suit (as the house-set suit), in player’s point hand.
c) Dealer places player’s cards of same/lower rank (than the house-set rank) that are of different suit (than the house-set suit), in player’s rank hand.
d) Dealer places player’s cards of lower rank (than the house-set rank) that are of same suit (as the house-set suit), in player’s suit hand.
Dealer sets their hand in the same way a player’s hand is set when the dealer-set method is selected; except the dealer's up-card is used in the dealer's suit and rank hand.
Dealer takes all losing bets and pays winning bets from right to left, starting with player closest to the dealer’s right.
A new game begins.
September 2nd, 2013 at 7:43:17 PM
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honestly way above the average players head, most will walk away becaus to hard to follow, I play 24.7 365 an you lost me on the second line- just opinion not trying to be rude just trying to help to be honest
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
September 2nd, 2013 at 7:45:21 PM
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Quote: strictlyAPhonestly way above the average players head, most will walk away becaus to hard to follow, I play 24.7 365 an you lost me on the second line- just opinion not trying to be rude just trying to help to be honest
really second line player/dealer receives 5 cards each
September 2nd, 2013 at 8:04:04 PM
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Always consider the source, AllInRiverKing.
You have a Forum comprised of individuals who feel as though Table Games should have a strategy that should be moderately difficult (to keep it entertaining) telling you it is too hard. You might make a ploppy's brain explode.
You have a Forum comprised of individuals who feel as though Table Games should have a strategy that should be moderately difficult (to keep it entertaining) telling you it is too hard. You might make a ploppy's brain explode.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 2nd, 2013 at 8:12:56 PM
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Wow, is this complicated. It's also not all that much like poker. I'd play, but it'd take so long to deal and would be so error prone that it's hard to imagine how it'd be placed in a brick & mortar casino. Maybe online, where everything could be automated...
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
September 2nd, 2013 at 8:21:22 PM
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my thoughts exactly
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
September 2nd, 2013 at 8:25:42 PM
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your rank hand plays as poker, your poker hand plays as poker, just not against dealers hand.
September 2nd, 2013 at 8:33:22 PM
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stricklyap,
please give me a 5 card hand example, with an example for dealer's up card. I'll tell you as a player how I would set the hand as well as how it would be set if using the dealer's-set method. Also, a player doesn't have to set their hand, let the dealer do it. It's simple, any card of higher rank than the house-set rank goes in player's point hand, any card of same/lower rank than the house-set rank of different suit than house-set suit goes in player's rank hand, any card of lower rank than the house-set rank of same suit as house-set suit goes in player's suit hand. I can set a hand in a couple secs following these guidelines.
please give me a 5 card hand example, with an example for dealer's up card. I'll tell you as a player how I would set the hand as well as how it would be set if using the dealer's-set method. Also, a player doesn't have to set their hand, let the dealer do it. It's simple, any card of higher rank than the house-set rank goes in player's point hand, any card of same/lower rank than the house-set rank of different suit than house-set suit goes in player's rank hand, any card of lower rank than the house-set rank of same suit as house-set suit goes in player's suit hand. I can set a hand in a couple secs following these guidelines.
September 2nd, 2013 at 8:44:34 PM
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This game offers as little or as much player strategy input as you want to use with it. A lower pocket pair or trip is better to have with this game for the rank bet, because the cards are more than likely to stay as part of the player's rank hand. Because of this a player should be more apt to bet 3 times their ante bet on their mid bet. Even if it backfires, because the cards were low, they may have a chance to be of the same-suit as the house-set suit card, and because your play bet has to be the same amount as your mid bet, you have a good chance of winning still.
September 2nd, 2013 at 9:19:21 PM
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It's too complicated from a play standpoint, not just a strategy standpoint. I've no idea what the strategy is, but the game has two mid-hand betting decisions and then a hand-setting decision. That's at least one more decision point than every other game I can think of. Plus there are three hands to evaluate, not just two. I can't see this playing anywhere nearly as fast as Pai Gow Poker with just the hand-setting decision.
We've had this conversation before, but don't you work in a casino? What did your management think when you presented the game to them? Are they putting the game in, and if not, what were the reasons they gave you?
And my best advice is to change the name. It will be pronounced "Super Ramp" which will not only be confusing but is not at all an exciting name. Unless you can sign an X-Games biker to be your spokesperson or something, but that approach has been tried before (with UFC) and wasn't successful.
We've had this conversation before, but don't you work in a casino? What did your management think when you presented the game to them? Are they putting the game in, and if not, what were the reasons they gave you?
And my best advice is to change the name. It will be pronounced "Super Ramp" which will not only be confusing but is not at all an exciting name. Unless you can sign an X-Games biker to be your spokesperson or something, but that approach has been tried before (with UFC) and wasn't successful.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
September 2nd, 2013 at 9:31:14 PM
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Extremists, the casino I work in hasn't put a new game in in over 5 years... And just AMP Poker might suffice.
September 2nd, 2013 at 9:37:08 PM
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all in, games need to be easy for the average person, obviously I could sit and read and figure it out, my point being I lost interest after the first couple sentences which is what most will unless they a trying to exploit it, if someone cant run up and place a bet withouth figuring it out in seconds its going to be hard to get anyone to play- I play tiles with weak dealers and I cant even tell you how many people walk up to that game and walk away when they look at it after two seconds and think of how many placements that has
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
September 2nd, 2013 at 9:45:22 PM
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Quote: allinriverkingExtremists, the casino I work in hasn't put a new game in in over 5 years... And just AMP Poker might suffice.
That's exactly the kind of customer you want: if you can convince your own boss to take your game when they haven't put in a new product in 5 years, you'll know you have a likely winner on your hands.
"Amp Poker" still suffers from successive plosives (the "p" sounds) which are awkward to pronounce cleanly. It would either come out as "Am Poker" or "Amp Oker," or you'd puff air (or spit) on whomever you were talking to. Put your hand up to your lips and try to pronounce it -- you'll see what I mean.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
September 2nd, 2013 at 9:54:52 PM
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Quote: strictlyAPall in, games need to be easy for the average person, obviously I could sit and read and figure it out, my point being I lost interest after the first couple sentences which is what most will unless they a trying to exploit it, if someone cant run up and place a bet withouth figuring it out in seconds its going to be hard to get anyone to play- I play tiles with weak dealers and I cant even tell you how many people walk up to that game and walk away when they look at it after two seconds and think of how many placements that has
I've explained craps to people and got them to play.
If someone walked up to table and asked me how to play, I would say, you get five cards in which you have to try and make a better suit hand, rank hand and point hand than mine; and/or make a pair or better using your five cards.
You split your five cards into 3 different hands if possible, a suit hand, rank hand and point hand:
Your suit hand can consist of any cards that match the suit of my up card. If you have more cards in your suit hand, than I have in mine, your play bet wins.
Your rank hand can consist of any cards that are of the same or lower rank of my up card. If your rank hand outranks mine, your mid bet wins.
Your point hand can consist of any cards that are of higher rank than my up card. If your point hand has more points than mine, your point bet wins.
However, I do get to use my up card for my rank and suit hand.
5 to 6 sentences, a few secs gets the point across.
September 2nd, 2013 at 9:57:07 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistThat's exactly the kind of customer you want: if you can convince your own boss to take your game when they haven't put in a new product in 5 years, you'll know you have a likely winner on your hands.
"Amp Poker" still suffers from successive plosives (the "p" sounds) which are awkward to pronounce cleanly. It would either come out as "Am Poker" or "Amp Oker," or you'd puff air (or spit) on whomever you were talking to. Put your hand up to your lips and try to pronounce it -- you'll see what I mean.
Am Poker, nice...
September 2nd, 2013 at 10:21:00 PM
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I play many live poker variations ,Video poker,Table games and usually know whats going on however this confused me. I'm sure after watching a few hands being played I would understand but with that explanation most people will walk away thinking, "suit,rank,point...HUH!!"Quote: allinriverkingI've explained craps to people and got them to play.
If someone walked up to table and asked me how to play, I would say, you get five cards in which you have to try and make a better suit hand, rank hand and point hand than mine; and/or make a pair or better using your five cards.
When using your five cards:
Your suit hand can consist of any cards that match the suit of my up card. If you have more cards in your suit hand, than I have in mine, your play bet wins.
Your rank hand can consist of any cards that are of the same or lower rank of my up card. If your rank hand outranks mine, your mid bet wins.
Your point hand can consist of any cards that are of higher rank than my up card. If your point hand has more points than mine, your point bet wins.
However, I do get to use my up card for my rank and suit hand.
5 to 6 sentences, a few secs gets the point across.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 2nd, 2013 at 10:30:54 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfI play many live poker variations ,Video poker,Table games and usually know whats going on however this confused me. I'm sure after watching a few hands being played I would understand but with that explanation most people will walk away thinking, "suit,rank,point...HUH!!"
You would be surprised how people want to learn a new game. I may have to give them an example if the game wasn't going, or if they just wanted to play the poker bet only to get started, then I could point out how the other bets would of worked with the hands in play.
September 2nd, 2013 at 11:26:37 PM
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river,
I like that you're responding nicely to all comers. It has to be a difficult but very useful step to paste a creative effort up here and let people who have an interest and (not including me) experience in doing this try to give constructive criticism.
I'm having trouble with something. If I have, for example, a straight flush, and the highest card in it is higher than the dealer's upcard, (which it will be more than half the time given that the hand spans 5 ranks) I can't play it in the rank hand as a SF for the odds pay. Only if I have it in the dealer's suit can I play it in the suit hand for a much lower pay scale, a maybe 20% chance. Otherwise (the majority of the time) it is best played in the points hand, where it's likely just an average count there, but since it's all 5 cards, it will probably win a 2:1 or 3:1 anyway, while losing the other 2 hands (which I foolishly bet the mid at 3x, thinking I had something going on). Heaven forbid I should split it up to play the rank hand with the bottom 3 or something; I would get up and leave right then.
By the way, does a wheel straight/SF count in your game? It doesn't look like it based on your rank count, but doesn't specify. That would be a person's best chance in the scenario above for a rank hand pay if it does.
I realize the poker hand will pay independently, but you've created a frustrating experience to a player who would understandibly want full pay for his big hand. I think this is what killed Caribbean Stud in the end; the dealer not qualifying a lot of the time a player had an odds hand, and they did not get their odds pay, even if it was big enough to get paid on the progressive. (think that started at a flush; might have been full house). I know it's why I would walk on by the game.
I like that you're responding nicely to all comers. It has to be a difficult but very useful step to paste a creative effort up here and let people who have an interest and (not including me) experience in doing this try to give constructive criticism.
I'm having trouble with something. If I have, for example, a straight flush, and the highest card in it is higher than the dealer's upcard, (which it will be more than half the time given that the hand spans 5 ranks) I can't play it in the rank hand as a SF for the odds pay. Only if I have it in the dealer's suit can I play it in the suit hand for a much lower pay scale, a maybe 20% chance. Otherwise (the majority of the time) it is best played in the points hand, where it's likely just an average count there, but since it's all 5 cards, it will probably win a 2:1 or 3:1 anyway, while losing the other 2 hands (which I foolishly bet the mid at 3x, thinking I had something going on). Heaven forbid I should split it up to play the rank hand with the bottom 3 or something; I would get up and leave right then.
By the way, does a wheel straight/SF count in your game? It doesn't look like it based on your rank count, but doesn't specify. That would be a person's best chance in the scenario above for a rank hand pay if it does.
I realize the poker hand will pay independently, but you've created a frustrating experience to a player who would understandibly want full pay for his big hand. I think this is what killed Caribbean Stud in the end; the dealer not qualifying a lot of the time a player had an odds hand, and they did not get their odds pay, even if it was big enough to get paid on the progressive. (think that started at a flush; might have been full house). I know it's why I would walk on by the game.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 3rd, 2013 at 9:09:13 AM
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Beach,
Because of the way the game plays, lower pairs trips quads straights flushes straight flushes hold up better. This should be takin into account when player has chance to bet 3 times ante on mid bet. This is because those hands have a better chance of staying in the players rank hand. This makes it possible to pay higher payouts.
Because of the way the game plays, lower pairs trips quads straights flushes straight flushes hold up better. This should be takin into account when player has chance to bet 3 times ante on mid bet. This is because those hands have a better chance of staying in the players rank hand. This makes it possible to pay higher payouts.
September 3rd, 2013 at 4:08:54 PM
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Beach,
Also don't forget the dealer has their rank hand broken up almost as much as a player's rank hand is broken up.
example: Dealer's up card is Qh, dealer's other cards are Js, Jh, 10c, and 5d. Player's hand is Kc, 7c, 7h, 5h and 3h. Player sets their hand, only knowing the dealer's up-card, as follows: suit hand 5h and 3h, rank hand 7c and 7h, point hand Kc.
Player's play bet pushes, because the player's suit hand contains the same number of cards, that are of the same suit as the dealer's up-card, as the dealer's suit hand.
Player's mid bet wins 2 to 1, because their rank hand outranked the dealer's rank hand, and the player's rank hand contained a pair.
Player's ante bet wins 2 to 1, because the player's point hand had at least 10 points more than the dealer's point hand.
Player's poker bet wins 1 to 1 because the player's hand contains a pair.
And their are several scenarios just like this.
If these hands were in any other traditional 5-card poker game, the dealer would of beat the player's hand.
Also don't forget the dealer has their rank hand broken up almost as much as a player's rank hand is broken up.
example: Dealer's up card is Qh, dealer's other cards are Js, Jh, 10c, and 5d. Player's hand is Kc, 7c, 7h, 5h and 3h. Player sets their hand, only knowing the dealer's up-card, as follows: suit hand 5h and 3h, rank hand 7c and 7h, point hand Kc.
Player's play bet pushes, because the player's suit hand contains the same number of cards, that are of the same suit as the dealer's up-card, as the dealer's suit hand.
Player's mid bet wins 2 to 1, because their rank hand outranked the dealer's rank hand, and the player's rank hand contained a pair.
Player's ante bet wins 2 to 1, because the player's point hand had at least 10 points more than the dealer's point hand.
Player's poker bet wins 1 to 1 because the player's hand contains a pair.
And their are several scenarios just like this.
If these hands were in any other traditional 5-card poker game, the dealer would of beat the player's hand.
September 3rd, 2013 at 4:13:31 PM
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Quote: allinriverkingBeach,
Also don't forget the dealer has their rank hand broken up almost as much as a player's rank hand is broken up.
example: Dealer's up card is Qh, dealer's other cards are QS, Jh, 10c, and 5d. Player's hand is Kc, 7c, 7h, 5h and 3h. Player sets their hand, only knowing the dealer's up-card, as follows: suit hand 5h and 3h, rank hand 7c and 7h, point hand Kc.
Player's play bet pushes, because the player's suit hand contains the same number of cards that contained the suit of the dealer's up-card.
Player's mid bet wins 2 to 1, because their rank hand outranked the dealer's rank hand, and the player's rank hand contained a pair.
Player's ante bet wins 2 to 1, because the player's point hand had at least 10 points more than the dealer's point hand.
Player's poker bet wins 1 to 1 because the player's hand contains a pair.
And their are several scenarios just like this.
I am not a big Poker fan but seeing the response from the general commentators it would seem this game might be a bit too much for the average joe punter. I suspect if a demo could be viewed a lot of the game would be understood by some of the hardcore on here and you would probably get a easier hearing..
Keep plugging and good luck
Controversial sometimes, brutally honest..Always
September 3rd, 2013 at 4:47:05 PM
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YES ALL THAT BEING SAID i WISH YOU LUCK, JUST SUIT POINT RANK IS GOING TO BE HARD FOR MOST, I PLAY POKER 20 YEARS AND STILL GET CAUGHT UP WHEN IM TIRED AS TO WHICH SUIT IS HIGHER IN STUD WHEN DETERMINING THE BRING IN
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
September 3rd, 2013 at 7:24:06 PM
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Quote: strictlyAPYES ALL THAT BEING SAID i WISH YOU LUCK, JUST SUIT POINT RANK IS GOING TO BE HARD FOR MOST, I PLAY POKER 20 YEARS AND STILL GET CAUGHT UP WHEN IM TIRED AS TO WHICH SUIT IS HIGHER IN STUD WHEN DETERMINING THE BRING IN
That's why if a hand is set wrong by the player, the default way to set the player's hand is used, and the way they set it is abandoned. The default way to set a player's hand is using the dealer's-set method.
September 3rd, 2013 at 11:26:57 PM
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Quote: McDemonI am not a big Poker fan but seeing the response from the general commentators it would seem this game might be a bit too much for the average joe punter. I suspect if a demo could be viewed a lot of the game would be understood by some of the hardcore on here and you would probably get a easier hearing..
Keep plugging and good luck
If I had a demo video made, how would I get it view-able by others on here?
September 4th, 2013 at 12:47:48 AM
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Quote: allinriverkingIf I had a demo video made, how would I get it view-able by others on here?
By video on Youtube. Do a video and post the link on here..Doesn't have to be speilberg quality and you can make it private so only selected people could view it.
Controversial sometimes, brutally honest..Always
September 4th, 2013 at 1:18:58 AM
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post deleted
September 4th, 2013 at 1:43:33 AM
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Player's betting area
Area in front of Dealer
Area in front of Dealer
September 4th, 2013 at 10:15:42 AM
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Beach, I know you figured out that sometimes the player's rank hand gets broken up. I wanted to point out to you, that the dealer can never get a flush, straight-flush or royal-flush for their rank hand, because of the way they are required to set their hand.
September 4th, 2013 at 10:34:29 AM
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river,
Interesting comment; I thought the dealer could get any of those if they exposed the highest rank of the hand, for example the ace of a royal, the rules would require that hand be set in the rank in toto. However, I see in the dealer's diagram, the rank hand must be in a different suit, so it would all go to the suit hand. I did not get that understanding from my first reading of the rules; maybe part of the paste/edit you did after I asked about a different point.
Interesting comment; I thought the dealer could get any of those if they exposed the highest rank of the hand, for example the ace of a royal, the rules would require that hand be set in the rank in toto. However, I see in the dealer's diagram, the rank hand must be in a different suit, so it would all go to the suit hand. I did not get that understanding from my first reading of the rules; maybe part of the paste/edit you did after I asked about a different point.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 4th, 2013 at 10:41:08 AM
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Quote: beachbumbabsriver,
Interesting comment; I would think the dealer could get any of those if they exposed the highest rank of the hand, for example the ace of a royal, the rules would require that hand be set in the rank in toto.
They can't because read layout, they can' put cards of the same suit in their rank hand. If the card is of same suit and lower in rank, that card must go in their suit hand; if it' s of same suit and higher rank it must go in their point hand. The only card of the same suit as their up card is their up card itself can be part of their rank hand.
September 4th, 2013 at 10:46:03 AM
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river...I amended my post about 2 minutes after posting it to reflect what you're saying, probably while you were writing this. Thanks for the clarification anyway.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 4th, 2013 at 11:47:02 AM
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No prob Beach, the dealer-set method a, b and c haven't been edited. I only edited the words "and point hand" from rules. I know the rule page was very lengthy, I think the diagram works better, as most of it will be on table layout.
September 4th, 2013 at 2:25:56 PM
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Allin, the fact that you are contemplating three boxes with 5 lines of text each at every player station on the layout should tell you that "Suit Hand", "Rank Hand" and "Point Hand" are not easily understood concepts.
This game is DOA with all three concepts in place......simplify, simplify, simplify......or AMP Poker will be dead on arrival.
This game is DOA with all three concepts in place......simplify, simplify, simplify......or AMP Poker will be dead on arrival.
September 4th, 2013 at 2:31:29 PM
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Quote: ParadigmAllin, the fact that you are contemplating three boxes with 5 lines of text each at every player station on the layout should tell you that "Suit Hand", "Rank Hand" and "Point Hand" are not easily understood concepts.
This game is DOA with all three concepts in place......simplify, simplify, simplify......or AMP Poker will be dead on arrival.
The diagrams shown would be in the brochure, not as much writing on the table.
September 4th, 2013 at 2:58:17 PM
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Quote: allinriverkingThe diagrams shown would be in the brochure, not as much writing on the table.
Let me rephrase: The fact that you need a "brochure" with diagrams and three boxes with five lines of text should tell you the game is too complicated.
Why are you not listening to what everyone on the Forum is telling you? There are smart people on this Forum that know a lot and play a lot of table games. This is not your average "ploppie" crowd. The vast majority know the math, the strategies both simple ones and complicated ones.....dare I say there are some very bright table game minds on this Forum!
The majority of this "very bright" crowd is telling you that Amp Poker is too complicated which means the average casino patron's brain is going to explode in the time between explanations of the "Suit Hand" and the "Rank Hand".....you will never even make it to the "Point Hand" before the potential Amp Poker player is sitting down at 3 Card Poker on the next table.
September 4th, 2013 at 3:07:19 PM
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September 4th, 2013 at 3:15:24 PM
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Quote: ParadigmLet me rephrase: The fact that you need a "brochure" with diagrams and three boxes with five lines of text should tell you the game is too complicated.
Why are you not listening to what everyone on the Forum is telling you? There are smart people on this Forum that know a lot and play a lot of table games. This is not your average "ploppie" crowd. The vast majority know the math, the strategies both simple ones and complicated ones.....dare I say there are some very bright table game minds on this Forum!
The majority of this "very bright" crowd is telling you that Amp Poker is too complicated which means the average casino patron's brain is going to explode in the time between explanations of the "Suit Hand" and the "Rank Hand".....you will never even make it to the "Point Hand" before the potential Amp Poker player is sitting down at 3 Card Poker on the next table.
I didn't ask anyone's opinion. I simply posted for people to be informed of a new game, that isn't the same ole run of the mill, slightly tweaked, variation of a game already on the market, that over time has become boring and/or tedious to play. This game is easy to play. Maybe I'm just really smart (which I doubt it), to be able to play this game. This game is a poker game, that allows a player's weaker hand, to actually beat the dealer's stronger hand sometimes; and vice verse.
September 4th, 2013 at 3:19:10 PM
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It's also a game in which players, that care to learn of the strategies, can reduce the house edge, over the ploppies, that just sit down and have their hand set, using the dealer's set-method.
September 4th, 2013 at 3:31:53 PM
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Quote: allinriverkingI didn't ask anyone's opinion. I simply posted for people to be informed of a new game, that isn't the same ole run of the mill, slightly tweaked, variation of a game already on the market, that over time has become boring and/or tedious to play. This game is easy to play. Maybe I'm just really smart (which I doubt it), to be able to play this game. This game is a poker game, that allows a player's weaker hand, to actually beat the dealer's stronger hand sometimes; and vice verse.
Since you asked for no opinion including what I feel is valuable info from Paradigm, I will leave you with this thought..............
nothing
Edward Snowden is not the criminal, the government is for violating the constitution!
