7 Serious New Games for 2013 at G2E

Okay, people, there are about SEVEN MAJOR new table games coming out that are actually VERY DECENT.

This is the Short List.

Granted there are more than this list, but I am ONLY considering:
1. finely designed games, that have;
2. Major Distributor backing, and;
3. have passed stringent review by the heavyweight likes of Roger Snow (SHFL), Steve Jones/Dave Pokorny (DEQ), and Dean Barnett/Ron Marks/Bobby PietroSanto/Gary Saul of Galaxy, not to mention detailed mathematical review, done primarily by our own Charles Raymond Mousseau on all of the non-SHFL products being shown.

There are more games, but these are the TOP PRIMARY OFFERINGS from the major game distributors.
We pull the rip cord on all of these games tomorrow morning, Oct 2nd at 10AM, at the G2E Convention at the Sands Expo. Be there - or be square.

The balance of the games are great: three from SHFL, and two each Galaxy Gaming and DEQ.

Overview:
House Money: a BJ side bet for hole-card pairs, 2-card straights & straight flush that ALLOW you to cap or press your main BJ bet with this "house's money" on a side bet win - if you choose to do so! STRONG! Discussed here.

High Card Flush Play your best flush from a seven card hand - to include lenth of the flush! Bonus bets on 3-card straight flushes, 5-card flushes, etc....a bonanza of flush hand activity. Does VERY well at Harrah's Laughlin.

Free Bet Blackjack - an "All splits and double-downs are on the house," - an amazing BJ variant by our Geoff Hall of BJ Switch fame; this game is extensively known here.

Pai Gow-8 Full Poker Pai Gow comes for us at last. Players get eight cards, and play a three-card poker top instead of a two-card top. Discussed here.

Lucky Win Baccarat of Galaxy Gaming: a side bet and Progressive for Baccarat - where you can bet on a low hand of 5 or less betting an even lower hand, to be paid large on a paytable - the Fortune side bet and progressive of Baccarat, so to speak. TOUGH competition for SHFL's Dragon Bonus bet.

Suited-31 Brent Weiss' game, refined by him with DEQ participation, is on full display at DEQ's booth this G2E! Heavily discussed here, in many threads.

Three Card Mulligan, by our own and beloved Mike Shackleford. He breathes new life and rejuvenation into this SHFL workhorse.

These games are known here (with the exception of High-card Flush and Lucky Win Baccarat), as a testament to this board being way ahead of the curve. Indeed, with one exception, all of the game designers and mathematicians are board members.

Vote and comment on the new directions that table games are taking!

So how many will make it into casinos? One? None?

Quote: EvenBob

So how many will make it into casinos? One? None?

I have already played 2 of them in casinos in Nevada and will be playing a third tomorrow in the San Diego area.

So all these games are in casinos already?

I just know that the top three are.

Quote: bigfoot66

I just know that the top three are ["have installs"].

The top three are, although they are still new. High card flush has one install, and House money and Free Bet Blackjack are in either single digits or low double digits.
The next four are hot off the press, and were shown for the first time today; Suited-31 was re-worked.

These are the games that will probably make it, and get some installs, in spite of EvenBob's sour grapes. As far as I know, EvenBob is nowhere NEAR the gaming industry in real life, aside from his logins here.

I was at G2E today, and hooked up with Mike (Wizard), Geoff (Switch), Dan Dale (CrystalMath), Miplet, Dave Miller (DJ), & company for a while at the Shufflemaster booth. Mike and Geoff and everyone looked great and were in great spirits

I spent all of my other time at the Galaxy Gaming Booth and the DEQ booth, where I have three games between the two distributors:
1. EZ Pai Gow (DEQ)
2. Full Poker Pai Gow-8 (DEQ), and;
3. Lucky Win Baccarat (Galaxy Gaming), which I demo-ed to a couple of Canadian Casinos (Winnipeg and Quebec), and to Mike Shackleford, all of which were an honor.

Let me say this on having two gaming distributors, a little gaming politics here: Having two distributors is a non-issue; I am an independent game designer with good relationships to all distributors, and the relationship between the distributors are generally very professional and cordial. Furthermore, I do NOT offer similar game types between distributors, to ever pit them against one another, where the games may cannibalize one another. Notice that Galaxy has my Baccarat stuff, and DEQ my Pai Gow and Poker type games. I have neither found nor caused any conflict, and I am very sensitive in avoiding all that jazz. Also note that before I went with Galaxy on my Baccarat Progressive, I had given DEQ full first right of refusal on my games as a courtesy, even flying up to Quebec to meet with DEQ brass on this issue. On this matter, DEQ seemed most interested in using my Pai Gow products to own the Pai Gow market, and felt that their EZ Baccarat will also always retain its market share in the Baccarat arena, and recognized my right to release a game in a non-Pai Gow area, after offering it to them first. Both vendors seem to be only interested in moving what they do have in their own inventories. And this makes sense; in business, sell what you do have.

Considering how very finely both DEQ and Galaxy Gaming acted in this minor situation together, I am very impressed. Both know and accept that I am an independent game designer, and both took games of mine that where of different areas and market segments, simply because they each felt or saw potential in them. And I agree with both of them on this.

I am more optimistic on my Lucky Win Baccarat side bet and progressive than I am on my new Pai Gow-8 by a slight margin; I think the Baccarat Market is the opposite of the blackjack market, where a REALLY good and easy-to-deal Baccarat side bet and progressive has been really missed. The game of Baccarat NEEDS something equivelant to Pai Gow's Fortune side bet and progressive, where any player can sink his teeth into it. Especially for mid-level Bacc play.

As for Pai Gow-8, it is a great game, but it is a MASTER'S game of Pai Gow Poker, limited to the more hard-core Pai Gow markets, such as California, Washington State, the East Coast, and "some" Las Vegas area casinos. I'd say 25% of pai Gow Poker could really get into it, but what a game if they do.

As for the Blackjack market, I really think Roger Snow now owns that area, with Hit-and-Run being a small speed bump in the road. Between House Money, and Free bet Blackjack, finally Blackjack variants that are superior to the base game of Blackjack itself have arrived. Double Exposure, Super-Fun-21, and the like are no where near as strong. To see such surprisingly strong entries in Blackjack is a blast out of left field, and this I did not see coming until Geoff and Roger said, "well...here ya go..."

How do you win the progressive at your Bacc side bet?

Paigowdan, it is very impressive that you have multiple games to show at G2E. I wish you the very best. I still have your article about game development from napkin to casino. I read that many time before I found this forum site. It is a must read for anyone who wants to make a go with a new casino game.

As you stated, a success at a new game is 1 in 1000 and that is being generous. With side bet, it is easier, albeit not by much. Wish I can be there with you guys but for me, it is more cost effective to pound the pavements one casino at a time.

Report back with how it is going and best wishes to you and everyone else who has a product to show at G2E.

Quote: bigfoot66

How do you win the progressive at your Bacc side bet?

Simple:
The basic Lucky Win Baccarat bet is a low hand of 5 or less winning over an even lower hand - say a banker's 4 beating a player's side 2. You can bet the banker over the player's side, the player's side over the banker's side, or you can bet both bets. A 4-hand beating an even lower hands pays 8:1 on the felt (layout) paytable.
A winning 3 pays 12:1,
a winning 2 pays 20:1, and -
a winning 1 over a 0 on the other side of the hand pays 30:1, - kind of like getting a four-of-a-kind playing Pai Gow Poker.
A rare hand, about one in 220 or so. And you can bet either side, or both sides.

Now, on the same bet, a suited 1 beating a 0 hand pays 200:1, - and a 1 in Spades beating a zero hand pays 500:1 as the top payout.

For the progressive, a 1 in Spades beating a 0 also in spades pays 100% of the jackpot; a 1 in spades beating a suited 0 in diamonds, hearts or clubs wins 10% of the jackpot meter. The top award occurs once in 955,000 hands, almost one in a million.

What we like about this bet is "that it is all about a true Baccarat hand" - beating a lower Baccarat hand, as the winning action. No poker type crap added in as the gimmick, no "three-card Banker's 7 or such-and-such," and no "you got to win by a margin of 5 or better," as in the Dragon Bonus bet, which isn't a bad side bet itself, in my opinion. But this is a pure Baccarat-based side bet for the game of Baccarat, and it both fits in well, and plays very well, and we think it's got a good shot for Baccarat, especially as an exciting progressive option. It's just a Clean, simple, and Baccarat-based side bet that is based on the game itself: A lucky win, on a low hand winning.

Galaxy Gaming was very pleased and impressed with the bet's design, and the work put into it, especially by its mathematician, Charles Mousseau, who did some additional math reports to show that it is not "AP countable," which was an important consideration and lesson for developing side bets for a Baccarat shoe game - which is essentially dealt out to the end. A LOT of work and research was done to make sure that the game was not "fraud-able," - for lack of a better description.

Galaxy Gaming's entire crew was just fantastic and very supportive - and Galaxy had given me the green light to "fast-track" this product into this years G2E showing. I had originally done this work on Lucky Win Baccarat to be a DEQ product in January of this year, and by June of this year, DEQ had declined, while also feeling that this was a very strong product. They declined because they also felt that EZ Baccarat is a fine product, which it is indeed, and had wished me luck on Lucky Win Baccarat no matter whom I go with. This was very gracious and magnanimous of DEQ on their part, and is quite rare in the gaming industry; it show the class and the high level upon which they operate, as well as why I am fully confident in DEQ to manage my Pai Gow and Poker products.

Now, I did have concerns about the limited two-month time frame about getting a game ready for October's G2E showing, but Galaxy Gaming was on top of it all, along with Charles Mousseau, my mathematician, who produced very fine and completely accurate gaming reports on the product, to include a rare and NEW breed of gaming reports WAY above just the house edge analsysis. Charles Mousseau produced very accurate and detailed mathematical reports as to the product's ability to defend against AP play and card-counting attempts, while maintaining a modest and very fair house edge on the product - considering the fact that Baccarat shoe games are dealt to the very end of an eight deck shoe. (The use of suited combinations for the top hand awards was a principal design consideration in this area of our important "casino customer defense.") Suffice it to say that I really do do my homework when it concerns a viable game design, and I will confer with Charles over the last 1% in finalizing a gaming product. Money well spent, enought said.

Secondly, Galaxy Gaming's production department is headed by a man named Greg Flowers, - who perhaps has the very best "eye" in the industry, - knowing what a final product should "properly look like" to the final casino customer, - and I mean anyone who walks up to a casino table game with money-in-hand. His work has always been clean, crisp, and elegant, - just remarkable on all of Galaxy's table game's, and quite often I have remarked as a game designer (in particular concerning "Deuces Wild Hold 'em Fold 'em") when I came across Galaxy Products.
For Deuces Wild, I always thought: "This is a weak freakin' table game - but the production artwork is fantastic! Put THIS graphic design work on EZ Pai Gow - and I shall rule the world!" I was thinking...wow. So Greg's artwork, as superb as it is, had never gotten in the way of a product, - it just elevated and supported THE product, - which is what it is supposed to do. As a game designer, I do notice these artistic elements and aspects. Most people don't notice this consciously, they just find themselves buying in and trying a new casino game based on the quality of the presentation, - which is a HUGE part of a new casino game's allure. Simply put, the presentation is exceedingly important.

As for Lucky Win Baccarat, I am impressed with the table shown at G2E: Simple, crisp, and elegant. We decided to NOT have side bet paytables etched into the layout, as they would look like "tackly scratches" on the layout, - very important to avoid for a classy game such as Baccarat; the pay tables are displayed in a vertical High-Res screen attached to the table, leaving the table unencumbered with "busy-ness." The side bets are positioned by the TIE bet, with the player side bet to the left - and coded "player-color blue," with the Banker bet option to the left of the TIE bet - coded red, for banker. The Progressive spots are also located in the correct areas, also color-coded with appropriate LED lights, again Blue for player, Red for banker jackpots. The goal of making a new bet is indeed making it all simple, easy, and elegant to play, and Galaxy did a fantastic job on this, just clean and crisp.

After all the important work was done on the gaming math, the patent, and the literature, to see a production gaming table that a "white glove" could not find fault with, was just very satisfying to witness. I salute the Galaxy crew on this one, I have got to say. I do not know what the future holds for Lucky Win Baccarat, (it is all a gamble, as is our business), but fine homework was done in every aspect.

Someday, I'll bring Cameltoe Poker to 'Vegas and it'll be a hit!! Just you wait and see!

Quote: Paigowdan

Granted there are more than this list, but I am ONLY considering:
1. finely designed games, that have;
2. Major Distributor backing, and;

Why do U only consider "Major Distributor backing"? Backing what and who? the inventor? the house? the player? A good game is a good game regardless of who's backing. I think "Dealer Bust" by an individual is a great game.

Dan, There are only few new table games in the show. Please consider all of them, now that you're retired, you can make friends with everyone.

Quote: s2dbaker

Someday, I'll bring Cameltoe Poker to 'Vegas and it'll be a hit!! Just you wait and see!

We know about Cameltoe poker.
It is up there with "Pull my dick" Blackjack, and "Just Freakin' Blackjack" (no side bets).

When you design a good casino game for real, - instead of wasting our time our time with this poke, (which we assume is the best you can do in this area) - then we'll give you an honest assessment of what you really have.

Chime in - when you either have an honest game, or an honest opinion.

Quote: UCivan

Why do U only consider "Major Distributor backing"? Backing what and who? the inventor? the house? the player? A good game is a good game regardless of who's backing. I think "Dealer Bust" by an individual is a great game.

Major Distributor Backing makes your game possible - if accepted!
Even if you have to give up 75% to 85% of gross revenue, it almost always makes the difference between "getting your game out at all" - and getting a zero out. For some side bets, an exception does however make sense.

Now, if you have a GOOD side bet - like Joe Centrone's "Bust it" side bet for Blackjack (THE MOST popular side bet at the Fiesta Henderson, and from an Independent game designer) - then you are very wise, as getting 50 tables out a $200 a month for a side bet rental gives you $10,000 a month - enough to retire on that alone! If you took 15%, then you get $1,500 a month - which is living in poverty if you lose your day-time job!
But you also have to consider licensing factors - to get licensed in virtually all the American Gaming jurisdictions would require about $200,000. Joe C. chose to spend for only New Jersey and Nevada, as far as I know, - SO - 50 tables of a $200 side bet in two states is actually the way to go with a side bet that has merit.
But Pai Gow Poker is a more "diffuse" game than Blackjack - and to get my 75 tables out required a presence in about 15 states - or licensing fees that I would have never been able to achieve - except by going with a bona-fide gaming distributor who was pretty much licensed everywhere in the U.S. and Canada, which left me with only Shufflemaster, DEQ Gaming, and Galaxy. And at that time, it was DEQ who had a similar "sister product" - Commission-free Baccarat, which was ALSO an "Asian Game" - so DEQ was the best fit for us all, and it worked out well.

In Joe's case, all he needed was a handful of installs in two states, as a good Blackjack side bet is EVERYWHERE, but Pai Gow games number about 1 to 9 versus total Blackjack tables, and I needed much wider state or "jurisidictional" cover, which I could not possibly afford in terms of licensing fees, unless I wanted to start up another company to compete with Shufflemaster, DEQ, and Galaxy - with just ONE yet-to-be-proven game at the time against these big boys. I simply had to sign with one, and I do not regret it.

Quote: UCivan

Dan, There are only few new table games in the show. Please consider all of them, now that you're retired, you can make friends with everyone.

I had considered them all, and I felt I had to describe those that I felt were the strongest, and those that seriously had a successful shot at making it, - even if I had to limit the list to the most researched games that were fully supported by the major distributors. Granted, there are games that come along that are absolutely brilliant but which do not have this full "research and distributor support" backbone support, PM me with any game you think is worthy of attention, and if it should be worthy of public praise as game designer - then I shall indeed publicly do so.

Update:

Now that the show is underway, these games have had strong showings. I'm talking not just developing interest in these games and making contacts in markets - but getting entries into your order books. This was especially important for games that had their debut.

To the best of my knowledge, all games in this group had recieved not only great interest, but placed some actual orders, - which is a hell of a start.

to address something from UCivan:

Quote: UCivan

Why do U only consider "Major Distributor backing"? Backing what and who? the inventor? the house? the player? A good game is a good game regardless of who's backing. I think "Dealer Bust" by an individual is a great game.

I am familiar with Dealer Bust 21 of Barrett Gaming International - if that is the game being referenced here by UCivan.

It is a decent side bet that has a handfull of installs.
Let it also be known that I provided factual information and a good review of this side bet to the administrator here, so that this side bet can be published and discussed as the decent side bet that it is. But Let's face facts: it is NOT a full blown base table game, as it is a side bet added to the game of Blackjack, and it is among a huge list of Blackjack side bets. It is NOT a great or exceptional side bet like other Blackjack side bets, such as "21+3" (which has about 1,200 installs), as well as Lucky Ladies, Pair the Square, Lucky Lucky, and the like, all have far MORE installs and player recognition and acceptance.

It is NOT a great "game" with a lot of installs, and it is also not a very popular BJ side bet with a lot of installs. It is one of MANY "Blackjack Bust" type of side bets, where all major distributors have their own versions.

To discuss the "Backing what and by who [sic: 'whom']," - you not only need a great game offering to get any sort of sales, critical acclaim, or review, but for a game or side bet to make it, you generally need a major distributor to obtain any serious presence or dominance in the gaming market.

"The inventor?" - A single independent game inventor cannot transverse the country on his dime to pitch countless casino Table Game Directors (which generally would not work anyway, like a busy table games manager what to take time out of his busy day to be pitched some new game 'x'), - or successfully sell a "National Licensing Agreement" to a major chain to get a huge number of block installs, such as MGM Resorts, Las Vegas Sands, or Stations/Ameristar/Boyd Gaming/Cannery Group, or what have you, the way a major distributor can.

This is just a simple fact of casino game-inventor life. An inventor MAY individually sell 50 or so side bets piecemeal, and make a living or retirement off of that, as Joe Centrone successfully did "as an individual," with his "Bust It!" Blackjack side bet. From what I have seen, the "Bust It!" side bet is generally considered superior; in the casino I work at, we have both "Dealer Bust 21," and Mr. Centrone's "Bust it" side bet. The "Dealer Bust 21" side bet is placed on one BJ table in a secondary pit that is open only 10 hours a week, from 7PM to 1AM on Fridays and Saturdays, - and in the "overflow" game pit. Mr. Centrone's "Bust it" side bet is placed on our "24/7" Primary Blackjack table, and recieves constant and massive action.

And his "Bust It!" Blackjack side bet is generally considered a superior version in the "dealer bust" arena of Blackjack side bets, as it has a richer, higher-paying payout table, and has a much more player-friendly house edge of 6% to 8%, - instead of player-crippling house edge 28%. Players notice this, and how the bet "feels" to play, and if it hits them too hard, they abandon the bet.

Quote: UCivan

the house? the player?

Yes - exactly. The house and their players decide; they vote with their money, their patronage, and their action. You get 1,200 installs and $240,000 in royalties @ $200 a month on just a mere side bet, then you will know that "the house and their players" have given you a great vote of confidence.

Quote: UCivan

A good game is a good game regardless of who's backing.

Yes, that's true. A good game is a good game, and Blackjack Switch is a case in point: it was originally distributed by its inventor as an individual inventor, and did so well that a major distributor (SHFL) openly courted the inventor, and gave him a fantastic offer to take his game nation-wide and world wide.

Quote: UCivan

I think "Dealer Bust" by an individual is a great game.

No.
I think "Dealer Bust" by an individual is only a good game, a decent game, - but NOT a great game by the standards and acceptance of either the gaming industry or its player population, again, if this side bet is the game in question. It has few installs at few locations, the real story here. Maybe I am wrong, maybe it'll get 1,200 installs, where casino operators will be falling all over themselves to get the game in, - you never know. But it does have a lot of tough competition from other Blackjack side bets that seem to be more popular, more profitable, more desirable, what have you. Keep in mind that the Blackjack market is very competitive, and that it already has a lot of great games out there.

House Money is a just a great side bet - I mean a screaming & howling Blackjack side bet for the Blackjack market. THIS is impressive and great.

Free Bet Blackjack is just a brilliant and utterly dominating Blackjack variant - just a Wailing S.O.B. THIS is impressive and great

But the Blackjack market is simply very tough and competitive, almost shot to hell after the recent and incredibly strong developments shown recently; don't kid yourself. Dealer Bust 21 doesn't exist in a vacuum, it exists in a brutal battlefield, and there's some very sharp stuff out there, where, if push comes to shove, it can be torn.

Deleted

Quote: Paigowdan

Major Distributor Backing makes your game possible - if accepted!
Even if you have to give up 75% to 85% of gross revenue, it almost always makes the difference between "getting your game out at all" - and getting a zero out. For some side bets, an exception does however make sense.

So far, I would have to agree with Paigowdan on this point. That does not mean that is the path that I will take. Someone has to be the first, and till it is done one cannot argue with Paigowdan.

Here are some exceptions.

Asia Poker--independent. I know the guy. He is a floor person at Borgata
Fire Bet--independent. Sold to Shufflemaster
21+3--independent. Sold to Galaxy

If one gives up 85% of gross revenue what does that tell about the this guy. If this guy could place 2 games versus 13 by the major distributor, he would still come out ahead if he kept all risk and reward himself.

Here is one thing that a major distribtor don't have that an independents have; creative force of hundreds of game developers, that it would be cost prohibitive for them to hire. Distributors have connections but I feel a great game will take hold and spread. It just will take more time.

There are pros ands cons to each, no question.
The big factors are:
- getting licensed in many gaming jurisdictions
- developing and having an experienced sales force
- time.

For many games, it may make the difference between getting a game out, versus failing to get a game out.

There are great games that never got out, and that would have done well if gotten out with distributor backing.

200 games at 15% or 20% with no expenses beats 0 (zero) games at 100% of revenue, minus expenses.

Quote: Paigowdan

"The inventor?" - A single independent game inventor cannot transverse the country on his dime to pitch countless casino Table Game Directors (which generally would not work anyway, like a busy table games manager what to take time out of his busy day to be pitched some new game 'x'), - or successfully sell a "National Licensing Agreement" to a major chain to get a huge number of block installs, such as MGM Resorts, Las Vegas Sands, or Stations/Ameristar/Boyd Gaming/Cannery Group, or what have you, the way a major distributor can.

Didn't Derek Webb do this pretty successfully on his own with 3 Card Poker? I don't remember how many placements he had, but he seemed to have quite a few in many jurisdictions.

Originally, yes, but soon after got into a distribution agreement with Shufflemaster, which got a tremendous number of games out, but was a relationship that later soured. Look at a three card poker table and you will see the Shufflemaster branding.

Derek Webb sold his other IP to Galaxy gaming, including 21+3, and is affiliated with Galaxy.

Quote: DRich

Quote: Paigowdan

"The inventor?" - A single independent game inventor cannot transverse the country on his dime to pitch countless casino Table Game Directors (which generally would not work anyway, like a busy table games manager what to take time out of his busy day to be pitched some new game 'x'), - or successfully sell a "National Licensing Agreement" to a major chain to get a huge number of block installs, such as MGM Resorts, Las Vegas Sands, or Stations/Ameristar/Boyd Gaming/Cannery Group, or what have you, the way a major distributor can.

Didn't Derek Webb do this pretty successfully on his own with 3 Card Poker? I don't remember how many placements he had, but he seemed to have quite a few in many jurisdictions.

Derek did amazingly well but the market was different then. There were fewer 'carnival' games and the casinos were actively looking for new games for their floor.

Quote: AceCrAAckers

Here are some exceptions.

Asia Poker--independent. I know the guy. He is a floor person at Borgata
Fire Bet--independent. Sold to Shufflemaster
21+3--independent. Sold to Galaxy

Switch, Fire Bet was not sold to SHFM, right? U might have only a 99 year distributionship contract, or as long as Roger is alive and is in charge.

Quote: UCivan

Switch, Fire Bet was not sold to SHFM, right? U might have only a 99 year distributionship contract, or as long as Roger is alive and is in charge.

Another bj side bet that I have seen alot called "in bet" It goes by different names like sic bo, or red dog. Your two cards and the dealers up card is used. Up card must fall in between the two cards.

Switch has nothing to do with Fire Bet. It was owned by Stassi.

Sorry. I was thinking of Free Bet, not Fire Bet.

Quote: UCivan

Switch, Fire Bet was not sold to SHFM, right? U might have only a 99 year distributionship contract, or as long as Roger is alive and is in charge.

Free Bet is exclusively licensed to Shuffle Master Worldwide aside from a couple of locations.

Quote: Switch

Quote: DRich

Quote: Paigowdan

"The inventor?" - A single independent game inventor cannot transverse the country on his dime to pitch countless casino Table Game Directors (which generally would not work anyway, like a busy table games manager what to take time out of his busy day to be pitched some new game 'x'), - or successfully sell a "National Licensing Agreement" to a major chain to get a huge number of block installs, such as MGM Resorts, Las Vegas Sands, or Stations/Ameristar/Boyd Gaming/Cannery Group, or what have you, the way a major distributor can.

Didn't Derek Webb do this pretty successfully on his own with 3 Card Poker? I don't remember how many placements he had, but he seemed to have quite a few in many jurisdictions.

Derek did amazingly well but the market was different then. There were fewer 'carnival' games and the casinos were actively looking for new games for their floor.

I have got to say this about Derek's war horse Three Card Poker: it passed the test, and STILL does. Even in spite of changing markets and increased competition, Three Card Poker is the Energizer Bunny of casino games. It just keeps going, and going, and going.....and the same for his Blackjack Side bet version of it, 21+3.

It is VERY rare that a proprietary casino games lasts so long that it outlives it patent coverage, especially with over a thousand installs. If you were a game designer, you would say, "This is just nuts, and I wish I were Derek Webb...."

For the record, Three Card poker is not a carnival game at this point. It used to be ages ago. It is now a standard casino game offering, Like Blackjack and Roulette, even in its basic three-bet form without added do-hickeys and gizmos.

To Illustrate this situation:

After the final day of G2E at the Sand's expo, I had to meet up with our gaming mathematician Charles Mousseau; he didn't have a rent-a-car this trip, so I was the ride with the "Pai Gow-8" mobile (my 2011 Ford Focus parked at Treasure Island, as parking at the Venetian was insane.)

We always arrange some sort of "space-time" meeting coordinates at table game 'x' at some casino 'y' - best way to guarantee a hook up: "Meet me in the Crap pit at the California Hotel at 6PM," etc...Our plan was to meet up at a Ultimate Texas Hold 'em table at the Venetian pit, in case our cell phones died during the exit rush on the last day. A Good plan.

Okay. I go to the UTH table in the Venetian pit, nearest the exit hallway from G2E, after pulling $300 from the ATM by the cage. Standing by the table, I was going to buy in on the UTH table, and wait for Charles as he was late, so I stood behind the seat while a middle aged lady jumps on the game with an $80 buy in. Okay. $10 table limit, so I watch, as she bets a dime each on Trips, Ante, and Blind. Gets dealt Ah-7h hole cards. For some reason she CHECKS. (??!!WTF) The Flop comes: Jh-Kh-10H, I swear to God. I'm thinking, "Fuck me, - and fuck Charles for being late." (I also thinking, "But she is not going to get the royal, - good luck to YOU, lady!) The lady says out loud, "I'm not sure...but I think I have a heart flush".....she bets 2x on the advice of her husband....more WTF.....Players on the table then check or bet, and the turn and River come, and are 5c and Qh! Her husband starts screaming and dancing, and the lady is like, "What did I do?? Did I do something wrong??" She got the Royal. Her husband walks over to her, and kisses her on the top of her head, with a floorman is already there, and tells the dealer to halt the game until "upstairs reviews the tape..." He also announces that the UTH table is in a state of "no action," due to the Royal that was dealt.

Now for the Three card poker praise...I turn my back to this UTH table (that is now in a state of suspended animation for surveillance to examine the legitmacy of a royal, - with a floorman staring down the table like he is a cop ready to do a take-down) - and I turn to face a quiet Three Card before me. Actually looks very appetizing to me, it is the only poker game my wife plays, and she got me hooked. Really. Just a very elegant and clean little poker game, often very delightful. So I sit down and drop $300 (three c-notes) with my Grazie Venetian players card, and get $200 in quarters, $90 in nickels, and ten white ($1). (Typical Las Vegas Sands dealer training - "Give them quarters so that they PLAY quarters...") Cocktail waitress comes over, and at this point in time I seriously needed a triple shot of that juice, - and I'm talking something George Thorogood. I order a double vodka neat, soda back, giving her a nickel to take the order alone - and begin to play Three Card Poker. And I am playing in a "steady-state" win and lose hand-per-hand kind of play, drinking vodka, and chatting up a pretty Chinese dealer. I am HAPPY....

Then...Charles Mousseau comes over, and see me playing Three Card, and says: "Dan, really, - are you a moron? Three Card Poker?? Really!!- Let's hit the UTH table!" - THEN he sees the Royal displayed, and the dealer dumping the card decks to prove the decks, and the floorman on the phone (obviously to surveillance), and buys in to play some three card, with an attitude of "Okay, I can slum it with you for 15 minutes, then we go UTH...." Charles just LOOKED at the other UTH table, saw the hands, and said in a second: "With a dime each on Trips, Ante and Play, The lady wins $5,290, with $30 still up in action..." without batting an eye, or to take a moment or to stop and think and calculate. He just saw the final and correct payout in a moment's glance while at the three card table. He could be a floorman, and a good one.

He starts betting $10 on the ante with no pair pair plus, just bare minimum Ante play percentage play, (a la Mikle Shackleford: "No bonus bets, please..."), like he was playing $3 pass line and come bets with max odd, the lowest house edge mentailty, and using exactly that mentality on this game...THEN his gambling hands go on "autopliot," and I watch him go up to $10 Pair Plus bets with quarters on the Anr/Play. He gets a jack-high straight, gets $60 on the PP, and $50 on the Ante, with $25 on the Play, and this anal "mathematician" betting strategy goes out the window as he actually gambles big and wins...and he lets his anal mathematician's hair down, and he just gambles and wins: Pairs, flushes...getting paid multiple quarters per hands, and loving it. He then abandons his anal mathematician snobbery, and admits "Three Card Poker is a delightful little ditty of a game, I must say, and I can see why it has the installs and longevity it clearly has..." No shit. Wish I invented it, but it was Derek, - and hats off to him for it, really. Along with 21+3, a great re-intro of the game as applied to the game of blackjack. Even after the Ultimate Texas Hold 'em table was re-open for new play, Charles was like "Well...we can play a couple of more hands of Three-Card, really, Dan," - to which I said okay. He won, but I got creamed, and then we went to UTH.

And this shows the utter stength of three-card poker from Derek Webb. It outlived even its own patent protection - which is very fine - to become the "grandson child" that created an absolute permanent standard and legacy in the gaming business. The day will come when the patents on EZ Pai Gow, Lucky Win Baccarat, and Pai Gow-8 will expire, - and I would like to think that people are still playing my gambling game creations, fuck the money after I am dead. And three-card poker is simply now a primary main stay casino, and NOT a carnival game. It is just a regular, standard, and permanent casino table game.
Now, a few things also happened on the Ultimate Texas Hold 'em game, which I will discuss later. And that game is Roger's legacy.

I played all the new SHFL games at G2E. Many of them were quite good. I didn't make it to the Galaxy/DEQ games unfortunately. (I was hooked by the SHFL dealers, one of whom was one of the models on the SM electronic BJ game.) Reviews forthcoming.
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Charles is one of the coolest guys ever.

What Dan is failing to mention in his narrative is the connection between me going to quarters and Mattie from New Jersey pulling up next to me and buying in for $50 and I needed someone to chat up and attempt to impress. Yeah, I know nothing is going to happen but old habits die hard. Plus, I could listen to that accent all night long.

I can see why it has the installs and longevity it has, but I guarantee you I wouldn't use the word "delightful" to describe it from my point of view. You'll recall, I lasted about another 3 seconds after the UTH table reopened.

I thought 3CP was still patent protected until 2017? The earliest 'Brit-Brag' patent I can find was filed 19 July 1995, with it being granted 11 November 1997.

Quote: THESWEENEY

I thought 3CP was still patent protected until 2017? The earliest 'Brit-Brag' patent I can find was filed 19 July 1995, with it being granted 11 November 1997.

No. Different game. As far as I know, 3CP is recently expired , which is why there are tons to pair-plus side bets for various new games coming out.

However:
1. the "Three Card Poker" Trademark is still in effect, with its branding, and many casino operators may continue 3CP are a fair price with SHFL. And,
2. The new do-hickeys added to 3CP are more newly patented, extending the game if you wish to use 3CP with them (as a casino operator).

Quote: Paigowdan

No. Different game. As far as I know, 3CP is recently expired , which is why there are tons to pair-plus side bets for various new games coming out.

However:
1. the "Three Card Poker" Trademark is still in effect, with its branding, and many casino operators may continue 3CP are a fair price with SHFL. And,
2. The new do-hickeys added to 3CP are more newly patented, extending the game if you wish to use 3CP with them (as a casino operator).

I don't think you'll find an earlier patent than this for Derek and, as far as I know, Brit Brag was the early working title for 3CP. In the UK we play Three Card Brag, with the only difference being a small variation in hand rankings. A prial of 3's is the nuts, followed by aces, kings, etc. With straights, A23 is top, followed by AKQ, KQJ, etc.

I'm pretty sure Derek would have attended the Rainbow Casino on a Wednesday night to play the brag tournament and, more than likely, had his eureka moment whilst I was dealing to him, trying to figure out the ninth effing side pot in the five pound madfest that was Wednesday night.

I'm not bitter though!

I show the Patent #5,685,774 filed in July of 1995 as well. Keep in mind that in the US, patents have a 20 year life from date of filing. So it appears 3CP is protected through July of 2015 based on what I can find.

Under some conditions a patent is 20 years. Under other conditions it is less.
Perhaps a lawyer here can inform of us of the real legal date of the experiation of Three Card Poker.
Nonetheless, three card poker seems to be going forward very well, both strong and protected.

You know what Dan, you are right on that. I think there is a before and after date that determines if a patent is good for 17 years or 20 years....I thought that was a 1985 filing date, but clearly we need RichN or Muskin to chime in. I bet that ME also knows.....he is really good with the patent stuff as well.

While waiting for an expert, please remember that free advice is worth the price !

Anyway i think for an utility patent the cutoff date is June 8, 1995. !7 years before that date, 20 years later.

Patents can be extended, but it really take " AN ACT OF CONGRESS" only cases I know of were for pharmecuticals , delayed to market because of government testing.

Before accepting this answer, consider the source. LOL

I was only off a decade!! That sounds accurate Buzz which makes 3CP good for 20 years or until July of 2015....I will take that answer for that price and value it accordingly (but I also think it is right!).

On all my FREE advice, I offer a double-your-money-back guarantee !

I thought it was 2015 too which is what I told Mr. Foxwoods.