casino game licenses?

Forgive me for asking such a basic question, but what does a casino pay to license an established casino game? I understand that the fee must vary from game to game and venue to venue but I don't even know how the fee would be calculated. Is it a percentage of the casino's profit on the game, a flat monthly fee, or some other metric? What might an established game like 3 card poker cost versus an unproven property like Hong Kong or Mulligan Poker? I suppose that's the easy question.

On a more complex level, what is the state of the business in a post-Bilsky world? I have no sophisticated understanding of the legalities involved, but it would seem that even established Shuffle Master properties would be vulnerable to generic knock-offs, games that used familiar mechanics but didn't employ copyrighted art or names. I would imagine a fear of Shuffle Master withholding licenses for shuffling machines would be enough to prevent many properties from angering Shuffle Master. But do they have any legal recourse anymore? If the fee was reasonable it would seem an easy expense for a casino to write off. But again I don't know what a popular game costs.

Quote: BukWildSuperFly

Forgive me for asking such a basic question, but what does a casino pay to license an established casino game? I understand that the fee must vary from game to game and venue to venue but I don't even know how the fee would be calculated. Is it a percentage of the casino's profit on the game, a flat monthly fee, or some other metric? What might an established game like 3 card poker cost versus an unproven property like Hong Kong or Mulligan Poker? I suppose that's the easy question.

Casino fees vary from state to state, and is based on the number and types of games they offer. (slots, table games, sports book, etc.) Casinos also pay percentages in taxes, also varying from state to state.
Now, I believe Washington State, among others, has its gaming license types and fees. Table game Fees are often also broken down into new game, and "game variant or side bet."
Dealers and other casino workers are licensed, as are game distributors and, in some states, suppliers (such as myself).

You can check and peruse Washington State Gambling Commission, among others.

As for Bilsky, may a lawyer type may offer some info or update.

All we need is for someone to create "Easy Pai Gow" with a King High Pai Gow pushing, I am sure that would make Dan happy.

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

All we need is for someone to create "Easy Pai Gow" with a King High Pai Gow pushing, I am sure that would make Dan happy.

I already did. The non-qualifer hands of EZ Pai Gow are selectable from 10 high to Ace-high. Queen is used because it is the best fit for house edge.

Oh well my point was someone could make a copy cat game to yours as an example for the OPs question. That is why I called it Easy instead of EZ

Quote: Paigowdan

I already did. The non-qualifer hands of EZ Pai Gow are selectable from 10 high to Ace-high. Queen is used because it is the best fit for house edge.

Would you mind telling us the house edge for each?

10 high -
J high -
Q high -
K high -
A high -

In Nevada it is typical to split the win of the slot machines that are licensed to the casinos. The manufacturers pay to build the games and usually put them on the floor at an 80/20 split. The casino gets 80% of the profit and the manufacturer gets 20%.

Table games vary all over the place but are usually monthly lease fees. A well producing high end game will go for around $1000 a month and a side-bet game may go for less than $100 a month.

Quote: BukWildSuperFly

On a more complex level, what is the state of the business in a post-Bilsky world? I have no sophisticated understanding of the legalities involved, but it would seem that even established Shuffle Master properties would be vulnerable to generic knock-offs, games that used familiar mechanics but didn't employ copyrighted art or names. I would imagine a fear of Shuffle Master withholding licenses for shuffling machines would be enough to prevent many properties from angering Shuffle Master. But do they have any legal recourse anymore?

I am not a lawyer, but have had some thoughts on this issue. I believe that ultimately, Bilski as it applies to live casino games, will not be upheld. In other words, ultimately a Board of Appeals or likely higher Federal Circuit Court opinion will determine that tying a game concept to an application using cards and dice is not abstract. The risk that anyone runs in "knocking off" a game with an issued patent or a game that has an application in process is the cumulative financial risk of a damage award when an Circuit Court rules that existing patents on table games are enforceable.

The attorneys on the Forum will surely comment, but my understanding is that once you are put on notice of infrngement and requested to cease and desist, but do not, the financial award of damages from that point forward will be calculated into a courts infringement award.

Further, from a casino's perspective, if they blatantly try and rip off SHFL's games and then a court upholds that even in a post Bilski world, live card & dice games are not abstract, SHFL could effectively stop doing business with a violating casino. You can't have a competitive casino without some proprietary product from SHFL and others on the floor. Without 3CP, UTH, Crazy 4 Poker, a branded PGP, Proprietary Side Bets in BJ, etc., your competitors would steal all of your table game players. I wouldn't think that potential longer term risk would be worth it for a casino.