Hoppin’ Hotness™ Revised

After taking into account, the complaints from the first version, here is the revised version.

Hoppin’ Hotness™ is a pair of new bets for Craps and Crap-less Craps games. These new bets are referred to as the Lo-Hoppin’ bet and Hi-Hoppin’ bet. The Lo-Hoppin’ bet wins – when five or more roll outcomes include the lowest die rolled during the first roll; before any seven is rolled. The Hi-Hoppin’ bet wins – when five or more roll outcomes include the highest die rolled during the first roll; before any seven is rolled.

How It Works

The Box-person/Dealers will mark the outcome of the dice rolled on the layout, with buttons labeled “ON” and “V”(the "V" buttons are larger in diameter than the "ON" buttons).

First Roll

Roll outcome totals seven – The Lo-Hoppin’ and Hi-Hoppin’ bets lose.

Roll outcome totals anything but seven – The numbered circle that corresponds to the lowest die rolled, under the Lo-Side, is marked with an “ON” button. The numbered circle that corresponds to the highest die rolled, under the Hi-Side, is marked with an “ON” button. If the lowest and highest die rolled is the same, the same numbered circle will be marked under both the Lo-Side and Hi-Side.

Subsequent Rolls

Roll outcome totals seven – The Lo-Hoppin’ bet loses, if there is not a “V” labeled button marked under the Lo-Side. The Hi-Hoppin’ bet loses, if there is not a “V” labeled button marked under the Hi-Side. The Lo-Hoppin’ bet wins, if there is a “V” labeled button marked under the Lo-Side. The Hi-Hoppin’ bet wins, if there is a “V” labeled button marked under the Hi-Side. Follow payout table below for payouts.

Payout Table
Marked buttons under corresponding side
One “V” labeled button pays ?
One “V” labeled button and one “ON” labeled button pays ?
One “V” labeled button and two “ON” labeled buttons pays ?
One “V” labeled button and three “ON” labeled buttons pays ?
One “V” labeled button and four “ON” labeled buttons pays ?

Roll outcome totals anything but seven, and one or more of the dice rolled is the same as the lowest die rolled during the first roll – The numbered circle that was marked with an “ON” button, under the Lo-Side, on the first roll is marked with another “ON” button. Once there are five “ON” buttons accumulated under the Lo-Side, one “V” button will replace them. “ON” buttons will continued to be placed under the Lo-Side as needed, until there is a total of one “V” button and four “ON” buttons.

Roll outcome totals anything but seven, and one or more of the dice rolled is the same as the highest die rolled during the first roll – The numbered circle that was marked with an “ON” button, under the Hi-Side, on the first roll is marked with another “ON” button. Once there are five “ON” buttons accumulated under the Hi-Side, one “V” button will replace them. “ON” buttons will continued to be placed under the Hi-Side as needed, until there is a total of one “V” button and four “ON” buttons.

Payouts still being calculated.... Will update when available...

I am, once again, totally confused. And this is coming from someone who had gotten the other version. Or at least I THOUGHT I had gotten it...


Confusion aside, is there a reason the "V" button has a "V" on it rather than anything else? I mean, why "V"? Similarly, is there a reason you're using a button that says "ON" rather than anything else? What does "ON" mean?

I'm sorry, I am more lost than I was before. I don't get the whole "V" thing. The rest is unclear as well.

I think you are trying to make too many "levels" and are too focused on some kind of "progressive" bet.

I don't see how you plan to have room for this bet on the layout, it is going to take up a lot of space with all the buttons needed. The buttons will need to be about the size of a cheque to be seen around the table. Then you have to consider these bets must be in center field or near the dealers, the later competing with the fire bet.

Then there is the "a seven loses unless there is a "V" then it wins......" in your instructions. I can say that the hardest thing new players have to understand is how "7" is sometimes good and sometimes bad depending on the situation and bet. The last thing craps needs is another bet where you have to explain that.

I am no math-expert, but my guess is calibrating this will not be easy at all. Does this bet "end" at a certain payout, or could an hour-long roll mean a bunch of "Vs" stacked one on top of the other? Given the number of casinos and rolls, someone has such a roll every day, statistically.

Sorry, I still vote "too complicated."

AZ -

When it ends is something I understand, at least partially.

It ends when a 7 is rolled. ANY 7. Like the All bets, a mid-hand Come-Out 7 ends this bet.

So, while there may still be monsters on this bet, it won't be as monsterous as you're thinking.


The part of the 7 end I don't get is when the 7 end is good and when it's bad. I just get that any 7 ends it.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I am, once again, totally confused. And this is coming from someone who had gotten the other version. Or at least I THOUGHT I had gotten it...


Confusion aside, is there a reason the "V" button has a "V" on it rather than anything else? I mean, why "V"? Similarly, is there a reason you're using a button that says "ON" rather than anything else? What does "ON" mean?

The "V" stands for the Roman numeral 5. Instead of counting a bunch of 1 lammers at end, you count one "V"(5) and any "ON"'s with(or lammers with the number 1 can be used instead of "ON"'s). This is easiest for everyone involved since you need 5 or more roll outcomes to have the lowest rolled die from the first roll in it to win the Lo-Hoppin' bet and 5 or more roll outcomes to have the highest rolled die from the first roll in it to win the Hi-Hoppin' bet . Example: first roll is 5-3, each time(including first timed rolled) there is a 3 rolled, there will be a "ON" or "1" labeled lammer placed on the 3 under the Lo-Side and each time(including first timed rolled) there is a 5 rolled there will be a "ON" or "1" labeled lammer placed on the 5 under the Hi-Side; until a total of seven is rolled. Once there is five of these "ON" or "1" labeled buttons marked on a side they will be swapped out with one "V" labeled button.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The part of the 7 end I don't get is when the 7 end is good and when it's bad. I just get that any 7 ends it.

If a "V" labeled lammer is under one of the sides, the bet wins, because it means that 5 roll outcomes have had its corresponding die rolled(the one that rolled during the first roll).

Quote: AZDuffman

I am no math-expert, but my guess is calibrating this will not be easy at all. Does this bet "end" at a certain payout, or could an hour-long roll mean a bunch of "Vs" stacked one on top of the other? Given the number of casinos and rolls, someone has such a roll every day, statistically.

Sorry, I still vote "too complicated."

Pay-table will pay from 5 through 9 times only, each side will only use one "V" labeled button and four "ON" or "1" labeled buttons.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

AZ -

When it ends is something I understand, at least partially.

It ends when a 7 is rolled. ANY 7. Like the All bets, a mid-hand Come-Out 7 ends this bet.

So, while there may still be monsters on this bet, it won't be as monsterous as you're thinking.


The part of the 7 end I don't get is when the 7 end is good and when it's bad. I just get that any 7 ends it.

No, I mean can it go on and on and on. For example, I could make points of 4-5-6-8-9-10-4-4-6-5-5-8 in a monster roll, but the fire bet would "end" after 4-5-6-8-9-10. (Though I assume it could "reload" then?) But as I read this, I am unclear when you can get the top-win, or could it go on to theoretical infinity?

Quote: AZDuffman

No, I mean can it go on and on and on. For example, I could make points of 4-5-6-8-9-10-4-4-6-5-5-8 in a monster roll, but the fire bet would "end" after 4-5-6-8-9-10. (Though I assume it could "reload" then?) But as I read this, I am unclear when you can get the top-win, or could it go on to theoretical infinity?

The highest the payout would go is when there is one "V" labeled button and four "ON" or "1" labeled buttons under one side. And it will not pay until there is at least one "V" labeled button under one side.

Quote: AZDuffman

For example, I could make points of 4-5-6-8-9-10-4-4-6-5-5-8 in a monster roll, but the fire bet would "end" after 4-5-6-8-9-10. (Though I assume it could "reload" then?)

Not to thread-jack, but you can ONLY buy-in to a Fire Bet at the start of a roll. Most casinos wont let you buy in after the first roll, even if the first roll was 2,3,7,11,12. Similarly, once all 6 are hit, there is no option to reload. And, in most casinos, you aren't paid until the eventual 7-out.

Quote: AZDuffman

But as I read this, I am unclear when you can get the top-win, or could it go on to theoretical infinity?

I too am unclear. And the follow-up responses haven't helped. Maybe seeing the math, or at least the actual payouts, would help us to understand...

Example: First roll is 5-3, a "ON" lammer is placed on the circle numbered "3" under the Lo-Side and a "ON" lammer is placed on the circle numbered "5" under the Hi-Side.

Next roll is 3-1, another "ON" lammer is stacked on top of the other "ON" lammer located on top of the circle numbered "3" under the Lo-Side.

Next roll is 3-2, another "ON" lammer is stacked on top of the other "ON" lammers located on top of the circle numbered "3" under the Lo-Side.

Next roll is 5-5, another "ON" lammer is stacked on top of the other "ON" lammer located on top of the circle numbered "5" under the Hi-Side.

Next roll is 6-5, another "ON" lammer is stacked on top of the other "ON" lammers located on top of the circle numbered "5" under the Hi-Side.

Next roll is 6-5, another "ON" lammer is stacked on top of the other "ON" lammers located on top of the circle numbered "5" under the Hi-Side.

Next roll is 5-3, another "ON" lammer is stacked on top of the other "ON" lammers located on top of the circle numbered "3" under the Lo-Side and the four "ON" lammers get removed from atop the circle numbered "5" under the Hi-Side and a "V" lammer is instead stacked on top of the circle numbered "5" under the Hi-Side.

Next roll is 5-1, a "ON" lammer is placed on top of the "V" lammer on top of the circle numbered "5" under the Hi-Side.

Next roll is 5-2, The Lo-Hoppin' bets lose because there is only four "ON" lammers placed under the Lo-Side and the Hi-Hoppin' bets win because there is one "V" lammer and one "ON" lammer under the Hi-Side.

The reason I'm using the "V" lammer is because it stands for 5 and the "ON" lammers because I really don't want to use any numbered lammers I guess it could be spelled out "ONE".

Please get this down to ONE paragraph.

If Stick says: They are coming out.... what happens to any existing Hoppin'HoppityHop Hop bets if its a Seven.
If it is NOT a seven what happens.

A Hopping hoppitty hop bet is determined when the next Seven rolls and wins in there are lammers already on it but loses if there are no lammers already on it? ??

I'll be sober in a few hours and will try again... but this is worse than figuring out why Mike got shot on Breaking Bad.

Quote: allinriverking

Payouts still being calculated.... Will update when available...

Assuming Excel and I are getting along today (and I understand the bet), I get 1 in about 1207 for the top payout and a 1 in about 52 overall hit rate.
Edit to say Ooops. I had a brain fart.
Now I get I get 1 in about 99.2 for the top payout and a 1 in about 12.9 overall hit rate.

I have tried to wrap my brain around this, and I think I might have it.

• Any seven wipes the board, and...
• If any Hoppin number had hit 5 or more times, it will be paid.

• The first non-seven roll after a wipeout will set the Lo and Hi Hoppin numbers.
• The Lo number is the lower of the two dice, the Hi number is the higher of the two dice.
• In the case of doubles, both the Lo and Hi number are marked the same number.

• For any subsequent non-seven roll, any die that matches the Lo or Hi Hopping number will be "advanced".
• Advanced numbers will be marked with lammers to show the number of times it has been hit.
• Suggested lammers include a series of "ON" lammers, and a "V" lammer to show 5 hits (which is a a payout).

Before I interject a few questions that I have, I want to make sure that what I have written above is correct.

If you make 4 numbers on the fire bet, does it pay out there and then? Or when you 7-out?

The game seems to be:

This is a game where we look at the individual dice. On the first roll, the high and low Hopping numbers are set to the high and low numbers on the dice. If you roll the low number (on either dice) 5 or more times before a 7-out you win the Low Hoppin', if you roll the high number (on either dice) 5 or more times before a 7-out you win the High Hoppin'.

Not sure what happens if the Low Hoppin' is 1, and I roll snake eyes (I assume 1 counter on the Low)

Quote: thecesspit

If you make 4 numbers on the fire bet, does it pay out there and then? Or when you 7-out?

Does not pay until the 7-out, though your win is "locked" in and will not be lost by the 7. I don't know if you make all six points, that could be a house-by-house rule. My guess is they woud wait until the end of the roll, to KISS.

Quote: Dween

I have tried to wrap my brain around this, and I think I might have it.

• Any seven wipes the board, and...
• If any Hoppin number had hit 5 or more times, it will be paid.

• The first non-seven roll after a wipeout will set the Lo and Hi Hoppin numbers.
• The Lo number is the lower of the two dice, the Hi number is the higher of the two dice.
• In the case of doubles, both the Lo and Hi number are marked the same number.

• For any subsequent non-seven roll, any die that matches the Lo or Hi Hopping number will be "advanced".
• Advanced numbers will be marked with lammers to show the number of times it has been hit.
• Suggested lammers include a series of "ON" lammers, and a "V" lammer to show 5 hits (which is a a payout).

Before I interject a few questions that I have, I want to make sure that what I have written above is correct.

Holy crap... I think you got it!

Now why couldn't the original poster make it sound that simple?


Note that it still needs a simpler way to describe it. I.E. The "one sentence" description.

Quote: thecesspit

If you make 4 numbers on the fire bet, does it pay out there and then? Or when you 7-out?

4 wins aren't paid because the bet could improve to a 5 or 6 number win. But even 6 number Fire Bets aren't paid until the 7-out.

My question is, what is wrong with craps that it needs a Hoppin' Hotness bet?

Craps is the most exciting game in the casino. It has bets out the wazoo. It is simple to understand, but complicated to play; you have to pay attention. That makes it both fun and challenging.

So again, what is the purpose of adding this bet? It doesn't amplify any of craps' positive points. If anything, it is the opposite of the thing that makes craps fun and challenging, in that Hoppin' Hotness is hard to understand and simple to play. The game moves so fast, I have enough trouble figuring out what happened without thinking about another new bet. I'd rather be there hoping for a 6, or a 9, or against a 7, or whatever.

The hop bet itself? Simple. Simple to track, simple to understand. That is an OK new bet.

My grandfather designed board games. He would carve the pieces, and make the cards, and design the rules, and then he would try to sell them. He was always trying to strike it rich, he always thought that the next game was the one where Milton Bradley would call him up with a huge contract. There were six of us grandchildren, and we would kind of not look forward to going over to his house, because he would always try to get us to play his games: "Check-a-Dice". "Let's Play House". "Wheel Race". The thing is, they were interesting. They took some strategy to play (he would always point to his temple and say, "You have to use your mind!") But they weren't any fun.

Quote: allinriverking

After taking into account, the complaints from the first version, here is the revised version.

Hoppin’ Hotness™ is a pair of new bets for Craps and Crap-less Craps games. These new bets are referred to as the Lo-Hoppin’ bet and Hi-Hoppin’ bet. The Lo-Hoppin’ bet wins – when five or more roll outcomes include the lowest die rolled during the first roll; before any seven is rolled. The Hi-Hoppin’ bet wins – when five or more roll outcomes include the highest die rolled during the first roll; before any seven is rolled.

You really have an up-hill climb here.

The Hop bet (or Turn bet) is not at all common on most Craps tables.
I would say over 50% of all Craps tables do not accept any Hop bet other than the Horn numbers that are already on the layout.
Most Craps layouts do not even show all the hop bets.
Because of this

Most craps players know nothing about a Hop bet.

A Hop bet being a one roll bet on a specific combination of the dice (both of them like 3-6 or 2-4)
There are 21 of them.
17 are these, the other 4 are the Horn numbers (1-1; 1-2; 5-6; 6-6)

So now you want to split up a Hop Bet into each die of only 1,2,3,4,5, or 6.
And you cal it lo-hop and hi hop

Out of 100 people that have a basic knowledge on Craps, how many do you really think will grasp these new bets in 20 seconds or less?
Be honest.


A 3-6 is the roll
(a proper stick call when a hop bet is made would be 9 centerfield 9; tre,6)

So, a dealer marks the 3 as low and the 6 as high
On each roll we will have a Lo and a Hi

So, one of the 1 thru 6 numbers has to hit at least 5 times before a 7 to win

Man, my 20 seconds are up.

IMO,
You need lots of Luck with this one.
More than the Luck needed for DJs Poker for Roulette

Quote: Mosca

My grandfather designed board games. He would carve the pieces, and make the cards, and design the rules, and then he would try to sell them. He was always trying to strike it rich, he always thought that the next game was the one where Milton Bradley would call him up with a huge contract. There were six of us grandchildren, and we would kind of not look forward to going over to his house, because he would always try to get us to play his games: "Check-a-Dice". "Let's Play House". "Wheel Race". The thing is, they were interesting. They took some strategy to play (he would always point to his temple and say, "You have to use your mind!") But they weren't any fun.

My "casino game design" equivalent obsession is board game design. Though I seem to be better suited for the development rather than original idea. There is precious little money in board game design. But you are far more likely to get a game produced in that industry than in the casino world. The hits are more regular as well, and people like Reiner Knizia, Donald X. Vaccarino and Uwe Rosenberg are probably doing better off than people who've had minor casino hits.

Hasbro and MB don't develop and produce games from the independent, they have their own in house team. They aren't creative powerhouses in terms of new ideas. In the most part at least, Hasbro in recent years has started bringing out more interesting designs, but the market is small for the "designer" thinking games.

I walked to lunch and back today. During the 40 minutes I was walking, I thought of nothing but this game.

As a result, I came up with a variation that has many of the same concepts, but is much easier to play and to explain.

But before I divulge my idea, I gotta ask: Do you have any sort of patent protection? If so, how flexible is it? I.E. Does it cover variations?


For example, I didn't speak a word about my Poker For Roulette idea until I got a confirmation for my provisional patent application. But the way I wrote it, it covers my new 3-spin version. In fact, it actually covers my original Hit It Again idea. However the Hit It Again patent would not cover Poker For Roulette.

So, ya got a patent pending?

Quote: Mosca

So again, what is the purpose of adding this bet?

Well, It is different from all the other Craps bets that require the total of the two dice.

He wants a bet that is about the values on one die.

How about the Wheel bet then.
A little known bet that I find a few players and dealers know about.
A 6 unit bet on the "wheel the one" for example covers
1-1; 1-2; 1-3; 1-4; 1-5 and 1-6

But, Instead of the 6 separate bets, make it into one bet.
Simple.
Everyone could understand it.

The next roll wins if at least one die shows a one.

Or your idea, the wheel1 wins if it shows say 4 times before a 7, or whatever the math would come to.
Miplet likes these type of math calculations.

These can be split up in different ways and still match the common known Hop bets,
but one bets on just one number 1 thru 6.

Good Luck

From what I can tell, the OP is doing tracking of individual die faces and paying if five or more appear before a seven. Equivalent two-dice bets have been done (see e.g. "Four The Money" (U.S. 5,829,748 to Moore, Jr.)), and as a result I doubt he'll get a patent if he's even applied for one.

Plus, tracking this manually is a bad idea. Unlike the Fire Bet or Bonus Craps bets, this requires stacks of multiple lammers in different spots. If those stacks get disrupted by a throw of the dice or a boxman's suit sleeves, good luck resetting them. Plus, unlike either Fire or Bonus Craps, this bet will often have two lammers moving every turn. It will be far too slow.

This might work on an e-table, where none of those physical issues are really problematic, but I'd never recommend something so procedurally-difficult on a physical game.

If I were to do anything like this, I'd do what 7craps suggested and just make different single-face bets available, either on a one-roll basis (which is already known) or on a before-seven basis. E.g. you could do a "place single 1 bet" which pays if any non-seven total with a 1 in it appears, and loses if any 7 rolls (including 1-6). It has exactly the same odds as the don't-place 5 bet (9 winners and 6 losers) so paying 5-to-8 has a 2.5% edge. This single-place bet has the odd property of losing on a 7 but short-paying like a lay bet, so I doubt anyone would play it. And the OP's wager is equivalent to a single-place bet modified to pay only if 5 or more hit before a 7. It's like the relationship between the Replay side bet and the standard passline bet. And Replay isn't particularly successful, as far as I'm aware.

Quote: thecesspit

My "casino game design" equivalent obsession is board game design. Though I seem to be better suited for the development rather than original idea. There is precious little money in board game design. But you are far more likely to get a game produced in that industry than in the casino world. The hits are more regular as well, and people like Reiner Knizia, Donald X. Vaccarino and Uwe Rosenberg are probably doing better off than people who've had minor casino hits.

Hasbro and MB don't develop and produce games from the independent, they have their own in house team. They aren't creative powerhouses in terms of new ideas. In the most part at least, Hasbro in recent years has started bringing out more interesting designs, but the market is small for the "designer" thinking games.

This was back in the '60s, thecesspit. My grandfather was a pie-in-the-sky dreamer who always thought the next strike it rich idea was just around the corner.

I edited my previous post because of an error in my brain (aka brainos). Same error I made in June 2010. You would think I would learn from my mistakes. :+)

Uh... its his pride and joy... ain't no use telling him Hop Bets already exist and are growing in popularity particularly amongst the whoop and holler crowd.

Hop bets used to be handled by the Box.... then someone wanted to sell new layouts with the Hops already on the felt.

Now someone comes along wanting a Big Fire and Small Fire Bet simultaneously burning. Or is that hoping?

Quote: miplet

I edited my previous post because of an error in my brain (aka brainos). Same error I made in June 2010.
You would think I would learn from my mistakes. :+)

"I should avoid working the brain at 8am."

I go by
I should avoid working the brain after 8am.

The line goes
"With every mistake we must surely be learning
Still my guitar gently weeps."

The "must surely" gets me every time.

Quote: Dween

I have tried to wrap my brain around this, and I think I might have it.

• Any seven wipes the board, and...
• If any Hoppin number had hit 5 or more times, it will be paid.

• The first non-seven roll after a wipeout will set the Lo and Hi Hoppin numbers.
• The Lo number is the lower of the two dice, the Hi number is the higher of the two dice.
• In the case of doubles, both the Lo and Hi number are marked the same number.

• For any subsequent non-seven roll, any die that matches the Lo or Hi Hopping number will be "advanced".
• Advanced numbers will be marked with lammers to show the number of times it has been hit.
• Suggested lammers include a series of "ON" lammers, and a "V" lammer to show 5 hits (which is a a payout).

Before I interject a few questions that I have, I want to make sure that what I have written above is correct.

Very nice Dween, you are correct...

Quote: thecesspit

If you make 4 numbers on the fire bet, does it pay out there and then? Or when you 7-out?

The game seems to be:

This is a game where we look at the individual dice. On the first roll, the high and low Hopping numbers are set to the high and low numbers on the dice. If you roll the low number (on either dice) 5 or more times before a 7-out you win the Low Hoppin', if you roll the high number (on either dice) 5 or more times before a 7-out you win the High Hoppin'.

Not sure what happens if the Low Hoppin' is 1, and I roll snake eyes (I assume 1 counter on the Low)

Yes only one mark Cess

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I walked to lunch and back today. During the 40 minutes I was walking, I thought of nothing but this game.

As a result, I came up with a variation that has many of the same concepts, but is much easier to play and to explain.

But before I divulge my idea, I gotta ask: Do you have any sort of patent protection? If so, how flexible is it? I.E. Does it cover variations?


For example, I didn't speak a word about my Poker For Roulette idea until I got a confirmation for my provisional patent application. But the way I wrote it, it covers my new 3-spin version. In fact, it actually covers my original Hit It Again idea. However the Hit It Again patent would not cover Poker For Roulette.

So, ya got a patent pending?

Yes patent pending includes separating the roll, to cover a bet based on their hi and lo die rolled, something that has never been applied for... and keeping track of such events til X happens...

Quote: 7craps

Well, It is different from all the other Craps bets that require the total of the two dice.

He wants a bet that is about the values on one die.

How about the Wheel bet then.
A little known bet that I find a few players and dealers know about.
A 6 unit bet on the "wheel the one" for example covers
1-1; 1-2; 1-3; 1-4; 1-5 and 1-6

But, Instead of the 6 separate bets, make it into one bet.
Simple.
Everyone could understand it.

The next roll wins if at least one die shows a one.

Or your idea, the wheel1 wins if it shows say 4 times before a 7, or whatever the math would come to.
Miplet likes these type of math calculations.

These can be split up in different ways and still match the common known Hop bets,
but one bets on just one number 1 thru 6.

Good Luck

Wheel bet is a one roll bet that covers all combinations of a select die....

" I walked to lunch and back today. During the 40 minutes I was walking "

40 minutes, are you sure Teddy? Just curious.

Quote: Mosca

This was back in the '60s, thecesspit. My grandfather was a pie-in-the-sky dreamer who always thought the next strike it rich idea was just around the corner.

I've met plenty of those guys in the 2000's as well. Watch Dragon's Den... there's always a boardgame that's worth thousands if only they could get it produced en masse. Invariably they are derivative, of limited appeal or worse, overly complex with no game-play. "It's the next Monopoly" they claim...

My friend and I have reviewed a dozen or so of other people's games. We aren't experts, but so many of them are fluff. On the other hand Eclipse has made it into it's 3rd print run, which is a hit by all accounts in the designer boardgame world.

I don't know how people feel about this bad boy, in general, but I think it would be better off as its own game. You would have to start the payouts at less than five consecutive successes, though, I think three would be a better number. I would like for there to be a new dice game at the casino, but sorry, I don't think Craps needs any new bets.

I thought Euchre Dice was a good idea, but it sucked. The best idea I thought I have ever had was Roulette Keno, which had nothing to do with dice, but alas, that sucks too!

I do think this would have potential as its own game because it would be simple, then. It'd be a mess in application during a Live Craps game.

Maybe you could set it up so that the player chooses his/her number(s) to bet on prior to even making the first roll, and a Seven still always loses.

Quote: allinriverking

After taking into account, the complaints from the first version, here is the revised version.

Hoppin’ Hotness™ is a pair of new bets for Craps and Crap-less Craps games. These new bets are referred to as the Lo-Hoppin’ bet and Hi-Hoppin’ bet. The Lo-Hoppin’ bet wins – when five or more roll outcomes include the lowest die rolled during the first roll; before any seven is rolled. The Hi-Hoppin’ bet wins – when five or more roll outcomes include the highest die rolled during the first roll; before any seven is rolled.

If one plays Craps in WinCraps for example the idea for the bets become very clear.


There is a counter for the values 1 thru 6 for Lo and the same for Hi 1 thru 6

Each roll of the dice produces one Lo and one Hi number 1 thru 6
Each counter is increased.

This is very easy to code and I may do it for fun later.
What are the payouts?

Once you see how the counters increase with each roll, this is way easy to follow.

The markers on the table could be placed in a line so everyone can see the current Lo and Hi count for each value of 1 thru 6.

I happened in the pic to 7out with a 3-4.
The 3 went (added 1) to the Lo-3 counter
The 4 went to the Hi-4 counter (11-16 in the pic) and that one ended at 5.

So I guess I won the Hi-hop bet

I lost the Lo-Hop

Did I win enough to go to I-Hop?


I had to play some more


The Lo-1 hit 7 times
Lo-2 hit 5 times
Hi-5 hit 6 times
Hi-6 hit 5 times

A mini-Jackpot?
Is there a jackpot if all hit 5 times?
That would be hard for the Lo-5,6 and Hi-1,2 Need lots of doubles for that

The game only requires the use of 5 marking lammers for each base dealer. There are not going to be lammers all over the place. And the dealers are not going to mark something every roll, just when the dice combination includes the same die that was marked during the first roll. It's quick. If dice bounce off marked lammer, there shouldn't be much concern, for as only one spot is marked on that side now; instead of multiple numbers being marked on one side and leading to confusion which spots were marked. The only thing that the dealer has to pay attention to, is if the number that is marked on the first roll is rolled, that dealer must add another lammer to that pile.

Next question: how will this bet increase revenue for the casino, over and above the expense of changing the felt, training the dealers, advertising the bet, and slowing the games down to explain and collect and pay it it real time? Does it generate new money, or siphon bets that would have been made anyhow? If it just causes a player to lose a little faster is it worth the trouble?

Quote: allinriverking

Example: First roll is 5-3, a "ON" lammer is placed on the circle numbered "3" under the Lo-Side and a "ON" lammer is placed on the circle numbered "5" under the Hi-Side.

So the Lo and the Hi are then points.
First roll 3-5 from your example establishes the Lo and Hi point
I understand the concept of establishing points
There is one point for Lo (3) and one point for Hi (5)

Next roll 2-4. Nothing added to the Lo-point of 3 or the Hi-point of 5.
3-6
Lo now at 2, Hi still at 1

4-4 no change
1-4 no change
2-6 no change
3-4 a 7
Lo-point goes to 3
Hi-point still at 1
But since a 7 rolled total, they both now lose.

A new bet can be made after any7
Next roll sets the new Lo and Hi points

Much harder to win than how I thought it was played.

Quote: guido111

So the Lo and the Hi are then points.
First roll 3-5 from your example establishes the Lo and Hi point
I understand the concept of establishing points
There is one point for Lo (3) and one point for Hi (5)

Next roll 2-4. Nothing added to the Lo-point of 3 or the Hi-point of 5.
3-6
Lo now at 2, Hi still at 1

4-4 no change
1-4 no change
2-6 no change
3-4 a 7
Lo-point goes to 3
Hi-point still at 1
But since a 7 rolled total, they both now lose.

A new bet can be made after any7
Next roll sets the new Lo and Hi points

Much harder to win than how I thought it was played.

Everything you said is correct Guido, except the 3-4 is a seven so i changed it that it doesn't receive a mark even because of two complaints over that. Although my first option of that i liked because it makes a seven not so bad... So I guess the seven issue could go either way... I like the way you stated best for the seven afterall it does contain the 3 in it in your example..

Quote: Mosca

Next question: how will this bet increase revenue for the casino, over and above the expense of changing the felt, training the dealers, advertising the bet, and slowing the games down to explain and collect and pay it it real time? Does it generate new money, or siphon bets that would have been made anyhow? If it just causes a player to lose a little faster is it worth the trouble?

It sorta gives the game two sub-points that need to be rolled at least five times; first time when setting them counts towards the five or more times needed. It's a multi-roll bet that has a higher hit frequency than the fire or the All's offers, and multiple payouts per bet, of which the All's does not offer.

Quote: allinriverking

Everything you said is correct Guido, except the 3-4 is a seven so i changed it that it doesn't receive a mark even because of two complaints over that. Although my first option of that i liked because it makes a seven not so bad... So I guess the seven issue could go either way... I like the way you stated best for the seven afterall it does contain the 3 in it in your example..

Got it. Thanks.

I also like the idea on a 7 it could cause the players bet to win.
edit

And the base dealers now have a lot of extra work to do.
I guess the stickman can remind them if each point needs to be increased.
But the base dealer is really watching his layout, and taking losing bets first, paying winning bets, moving bets that need to be moved
even before thinking about increasing a point for a side bet.

maybe this could be a better bet for the stickman to control.

Quote: guido111

Got it. Thanks.

I also like the idea on a 7 it could cause the players bet to win.
edit

maybe this could be a better bet for the stickman to control.

That would work too... since it's only lammers being added...

Here goes again, trying to make it the easiest as possible to understand and deal.

Establish two mini points, from the roll outcome that establishes the point.
- The lowest die rolled establishes the lo-mini point.
- The highest die rolled establishes the hi-mini point.
- If the lowest die and highest die rolled are the same, the lo-mini point and hi-mini point will be the same.

A mini point bet wins, when at least five rolls contain the corresponding mini point; before the next come-out roll. The roll in which the mini points are established, isn’t counted towards their needed goal.
- The lo-mini point corresponds to the lo-mini point bet.
- The hi-mini point corresponds to the hi-mini point bet.

HOW IT WORKS
After a point is established, the Stickperson will place a lammer labeled “ON”, inside the betting square labeled “LO-MINI POINT BET”, on the number that corresponds to the lowest die rolled when establishing the point. This number is referred to as the lo-mini point.

The Stickperson will then place a lammer labeled “ON”, inside the betting square labeled “HI-MINI POINT BET”, on the number that corresponds to the highest die rolled when establishing the point. This number is referred to as the hi-mini point.

Each roll before the next come-out roll, the Stickperson will place a lammer labeled “I”, inside the betting square labeled “LO-MINI POINT BET”, when a roll contains the lo-mini point.

The Stickperson will also place a lammer labeled “I”, inside the betting square labeled “HI-MINI POINT BET”, when a roll contains the hi-mini point.

Once a betting square has five lammers labeled “I”, a lammer labeled “V” will replace them.

If the next roll is the come-out roll, all losing mini point bets will be taking, all winning mini point bets will be paid, all lammers will be removed from the betting squares and the mini point bets will be opened to be bet again.

Payouts will be paid for getting five, six, seven, eight or nine rolls that contain the corresponding mini point. If more than nine rolls contain the corresponding mini point, the bet receives the payout for getting nine rolls.

Also for the individual that said "if he even applied for a patent", I will be posting the Provisional Patent Application Registration Number later. If anything, but to address the such condescending attitude that has been directed towards a member of this forum. I just don't understand some of the attitudes from some of the members on here. I thought this was a professional forum.

Quote: allinriverking

Also for the individual that said "if he even applied for a patent", I will be posting the Provisional Patent Application Registration Number later. If anything, but to address the such condescending attitude that has been directed towards a member of this forum. I just don't understand some of the attitudes from some of the members on here. I thought this was a professional forum.

You'll find all kinds of people on the forum...some thick skin is required!!

Having read the entire thread, here is my two cents worth.... The bet makes an already 'crowded game' like craps even more so. It seems like it will add too much work for the dealers to be worthwhile for a casino to opt to have it. I admire the work you have put into it, but I see very little chance for success.

Quote: SOOPOO

Having read the entire thread, here is my two cents worth.... The bet makes an already 'crowded game' like craps even more so. It seems like it will add too much work for the dealers to be worthwhile for a casino to opt to have it. I admire the work you have put into it, but I see very little chance for success.

This. It is admirable work, certainly. But it doesn't improve the game for either the player or the house, and may even detract from it.

I still maintain that it wouldn't be bad as its own game, you just bet on the number(s) before the first roll and start the payouts at three successes.