House Money - Friggin' FANTASTIC!
June 19th, 2012 at 8:58:55 AM
permalink
Buzz, you're talking about areas where the state mandates a bet limit right? And it's usually something silly like $100 or less, right?
I'd say that it doesn't matter. When you take the House Money proceeds and cap the BJ bet, it's all part of the rules. Additionally, the amount of the original bet for that one hand is still well within the limit.
Of course, if those states decide to interpret it as you are interpreting it, then there will be a lower limit on the House Money bet, or House Money wont be offered in that state.
I'm sure those whacky states are the least of Roger's worries.
******************************************************************************************************
See the wiz odds about special rules that affected Let it Ride in Colorado and capped the first bet at $4. Also Colorado at one time
had a discard rack taped on top of Digital 21 table. So they might not allow you to cap a bet, if it exceeds the $100 limit. Very possible that GAMING might not care if you won it on a side bet, slot machine, or pulled it out of your wallet. I was in Sky Ute casino earlier this year. BJ limits were $5 min and $25 max. So Indian casinos may have a problem with the game too.
I agree those are least of Roger's worries, but even a benevolent dictator is always seeking to expand his empire.
I have my aide researching the above matters.
I'd say that it doesn't matter. When you take the House Money proceeds and cap the BJ bet, it's all part of the rules. Additionally, the amount of the original bet for that one hand is still well within the limit.
Of course, if those states decide to interpret it as you are interpreting it, then there will be a lower limit on the House Money bet, or House Money wont be offered in that state.
I'm sure those whacky states are the least of Roger's worries.
******************************************************************************************************
See the wiz odds about special rules that affected Let it Ride in Colorado and capped the first bet at $4. Also Colorado at one time
had a discard rack taped on top of Digital 21 table. So they might not allow you to cap a bet, if it exceeds the $100 limit. Very possible that GAMING might not care if you won it on a side bet, slot machine, or pulled it out of your wallet. I was in Sky Ute casino earlier this year. BJ limits were $5 min and $25 max. So Indian casinos may have a problem with the game too.
I agree those are least of Roger's worries, but even a benevolent dictator is always seeking to expand his empire.
I have my aide researching the above matters.
June 19th, 2012 at 11:33:30 AM
permalink
Quote: ParadigmOptional bet capping by the player is not beneficial to the house, it is beneficial to the player.
House Money side wager has such a large initial House Edge, 26% per Miplet, that allowing the player to cap their original bet only when they win the side bet first drops the overall house edge on the side bet from 26% to 5%......it doesn't change the house edge on the main bet because you can only add to the main bet once you have "won" on House Money when facing a 26% house edge first.
In addition, that 5% figure is based on the players knowing when and when not to cap their bet, which requires an additional element of strategy. I'm sure the vast majority of players, especially in the beginning, won't know exactly when and when not to add the winnings to their original wager. They'll probably be close (the key is knowing which starting hands + dealer's up card give you a positive EV), but just like blackjack itself, the demonstrated house edge will be more than the theoretically minimum house edge.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
June 19th, 2012 at 11:39:39 AM
permalink
Quote: AcesAndEightsIn addition, that 5% figure is based on the players knowing when and when not to cap their bet, which requires an additional element of strategy. I'm sure the vast majority of players, especially in the beginning, won't know exactly when and when not to add the winnings to their original wager. They'll probably be close (the key is knowing which starting hands + dealer's up card give you a positive EV), but just like blackjack itself, the demonstrated house edge will be more than the theoretically minimum house edge.
For those interested, this chart from the Wiz would probably be a good enough strategy for when to cap your bet. If your hand is green, do it, if it's red, take the winnings. This chart is for infinite decks, S17, DAS, NoRSA, and infinite resplitting, but I doubt different rules/decks would change the red/green cells that much (the actual values would change of course).
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
June 19th, 2012 at 12:00:41 PM
permalink
Quote: ParadigmOptional bet capping by the player is not beneficial to the house, it is beneficial to the player.
House Money side wager has such a large initial House Edge, 26% per Miplet, that allowing the player to cap their original bet only when they win the side bet first drops the overall house edge on the side bet from 26% to 5%......it doesn't change the house edge on the main bet because you can only add to the main bet once you have "won" on House Money when facing a 26% house edge first.
Maybe I'm still hung up on this notion because I'm viewing it as an algebraic equation in a sense. My understanding is that if the side bet is so huge, then other options must be granted to the player in order to make it a "reasonable" wager and somewhat "even things out". My question isn't so much about whether the EDGE on the original BJ hand changes but rather how this option affects the HOLD in blackjack itself -- sort of like why there are table limits even though the edge on the BJ hand is still the same.
June 19th, 2012 at 12:33:41 PM
permalink
" My question isn't so much about whether the EDGE on the original BJ hand changes but rather how this option affects the HOLD in blackjack itself -- sort of like why there are table limits even though the edge on the BJ hand is still the same. "
Colorado limit $100, Arizona $125, Sky Ute Csino $25. I am sure other Indian casinos has similar limits.
I am still waiting for my aide to clarify the situation. He is highly respected in the industry and extremely knowledgeable.
Colorado limit $100, Arizona $125, Sky Ute Csino $25. I am sure other Indian casinos has similar limits.
I am still waiting for my aide to clarify the situation. He is highly respected in the industry and extremely knowledgeable.
June 19th, 2012 at 7:12:05 PM
permalink
Indian casino table limits in Oklahoma can go as high as $1000 per hand.
June 20th, 2012 at 8:47:35 AM
permalink
Anybody have any knowledge about BJ limits on cruise ships ?
June 20th, 2012 at 11:55:51 PM
permalink
Quote: buzzpaffAnybody have any knowledge about BJ limits on cruise ships ?
I commonly see table limits of $500.
August 9th, 2012 at 1:09:01 AM
permalink
Just an FYI: House Money Blackjack* will make its market debut sometime and somewhere this month. It will happen in one of the following casinos:
Jackson Rancheria (California)
Pala (California)
Siena (Reno, Nev.)
Cannery (Las Vegas)
Bon voyage.
*Not redundant. We recently completed development of House Money Baccarat, which will have its coming out party at G2E.
Jackson Rancheria (California)
Pala (California)
Siena (Reno, Nev.)
Cannery (Las Vegas)
Bon voyage.
*Not redundant. We recently completed development of House Money Baccarat, which will have its coming out party at G2E.
August 9th, 2012 at 1:38:10 AM
permalink
Never mind my initial point - I suck at math.
Yeah, though, I'd say a side bet calling for this much strategy really shouldn't have a 5% edge...
Yeah, though, I'd say a side bet calling for this much strategy really shouldn't have a 5% edge...
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
August 9th, 2012 at 4:39:58 AM
permalink
Oooohh....Quote: PacmanWe recently completed development of House Money Baccarat, which will have its coming out party at G2E.
Looking forward to seeing that!
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 9th, 2012 at 6:25:09 AM
permalink
Shuffle has a youtube video for House Money .
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 9th, 2012 at 6:48:17 AM
permalink
Also, there is a blog entry on House money, by a mathematician who works with R.S.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 9th, 2012 at 7:15:02 AM
permalink
Dan -
Thanks for those links. The image portion of the video is kinda corny, but the audio portion is very well done. Combined, it explains the bet very well.
Interestingly, the blog has a comment that is similar to what I said in the original post in this thread.
My reaction that day was similar to the blogger's reaction.
In a nutshell, I thought it was "Friggin' fantastic!"
Thanks for those links. The image portion of the video is kinda corny, but the audio portion is very well done. Combined, it explains the bet very well.
Interestingly, the blog has a comment that is similar to what I said in the original post in this thread.
Quote: DJTeddyBearNo offense to Roger. The mechanism used to pay the side bet could have been any run of the mill BJ side bet.
"Run of the mill", "Nothing special".Quote: blogThose payouts may not look all that spectacular. In all honesty, they are not. If the game ended right here, the payback would only be about 75% and this would just be another 'nothing special' blackjack sidebet.
Quote: DJTeddyBearThe "beauty" of this bet is that it allows you to add chips to your bet after seeing your cards.
It's all about capping your initial bet.Quote: blogThe Player now has the option to add any/all of his winnings to his base blackjack wager and then play out his hand per usual.
While reading his blog, it suddenly occurred to me that, without realizing it, when I was in that "artist logo meeting", I was also acting as a mini focus group.Quote: blogAfter we 'ran the numbers', I think Roger liked it but didn't love it. I, on the other hand, told him I thought we had just come up with a nearly perfect sidebet for blackjack.
My reaction that day was similar to the blogger's reaction.
In a nutshell, I thought it was "Friggin' fantastic!"
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 9th, 2012 at 7:23:29 AM
permalink
Yup, another super-strong BJ innovation.
Between House Money, Free Bet Blackjack, and High-Hand blackjack, - two of which are backed by SMI, - the BJ market is now rough sailing for the one trying to enter. Yee-gads.
Can you imaging a House Money-Free Bet hybrid? You get 6-5 suited against a dealer's 6, get paid 4:1, chunk you main bet all the way up, then you free-double it....wow.
Between House Money, Free Bet Blackjack, and High-Hand blackjack, - two of which are backed by SMI, - the BJ market is now rough sailing for the one trying to enter. Yee-gads.
Can you imaging a House Money-Free Bet hybrid? You get 6-5 suited against a dealer's 6, get paid 4:1, chunk you main bet all the way up, then you free-double it....wow.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 9th, 2012 at 11:06:40 PM
permalink
Quote: PacmanJust an FYI: House Money Blackjack* will make its market debut sometime and somewhere this month. It will happen in one of the following casinos:
Jackson Rancheria (California)
Pala (California)
Siena (Reno, Nev.)
Cannery (Las Vegas)
No Washington Casinos on the list, but I did see it was approved by WSGC recently. It is a very nice side bet since it plays along with the main BJ bet as opposed to being a "win/lose.....OK, now let's finish the BJ hand" type of bet, recall that is the reason the player sat down at this BJ table!
House Money Baccarat.....hmmm.....it will need a side bet that is resolved before the hand is decided which on a Natural can happen right on first 4 cards. Th wheels are turning and I have an idea.......wonder if it is close to what Roger and Co. have come up with...
Shuffle is going to have some excellent fresh offerings this year at G2E.....Free Bet BJ, House Money BJ, House Money Baccarat (verdict out on this one but sounds promising), Mulligan Three Card Poker (Wiz's game) and there were a couple of other fresh SMI games at the first Focus Group that could round out a nice offering in the booth. What are we less than 8 weeks out....exciting times!
August 14th, 2012 at 11:55:21 PM
permalink
Shows what I know.
House Money will debut tomorrow at the Drift on Inn Casino in Shoreline, Washington.
It will soon be played in California, Nevada and Missouri, as well as at additional casinos in Washington.
--Roger
House Money will debut tomorrow at the Drift on Inn Casino in Shoreline, Washington.
It will soon be played in California, Nevada and Missouri, as well as at additional casinos in Washington.
--Roger
August 15th, 2012 at 9:10:12 AM
permalink
Quote: PacmanShows what I know.
House Money will debut tomorrow at the Drift on Inn Casino in Shoreline, Washington.
Whoa, that's in my neck of the woods! I might check it out.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
August 15th, 2012 at 9:50:39 AM
permalink
Quote: PacmanShows what I know.
House Money will debut tomorrow at the Drift on Inn Casino in Shoreline, Washington.
It will soon be played in California, Nevada and Missouri, as well as at additional casinos in Washington.
--Roger
Must resist spending my October Vegas bankroll. Whew, atleast its not at the Crazy Mooose or Red Dragon, or I probably would have.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
August 31st, 2012 at 10:12:37 AM
permalink
I saw the House Money installation at the Drift on Inn yesterday. I did not play it as I typically don't play high house-edge side bets, especially when I don't know the correct strategy to at least get down to the minimum house edge. However, it was getting some pretty serious action from the 2 other players at the table. By "serious action" I mean they were usually betting the same on the side bet as they were on the main bet (usually $5 or $10). This is in contrast to most players in Shoreline who usually play $1 on the side bets (whether it's 21+3 at Club Hollywood across the parking lot, or the Lucky Ladies at Goldie's, etc.)
One thing I noticed is that the dealers weren't physically "stacking" the side bet winnings onto the main bet circle. It seems like this isn't how the game was described here, so either they added this procedural wrinkle themselves for some reason, or SHFL changed the dealing procedures. What happened is that if the side bet won, the dealer would ask "would you like to stack it?" If the player said yes, they stacked the side bet winnings on top of the initial side bet, but left it all in the "house money" circle. If they player won their blackjack hand, the dealer would just pay off both stacks of chips; of course if they lost the main hand both stacks went into the house rack. If the player declined to "stack it," the side bet winnings were pushed out of the circle back to the player.
Personally I think it took a little something away from the psychological appeal of the game, but I wasn't actually playing so who knows. The players seemed to be making okay decisions about when to "stack it," although I think they were usually too conservative. For the half hour I was there, the hit rate seemed to be pretty good, although it was a small sample size. Of course, since I wasn't playing the side bet, my first hand was a straight flush and I was dealt probably 3-4 winning "house money" hands. Thankfully not too much ribbing though.
Rack card (click for full-size version):
One thing I noticed is that the dealers weren't physically "stacking" the side bet winnings onto the main bet circle. It seems like this isn't how the game was described here, so either they added this procedural wrinkle themselves for some reason, or SHFL changed the dealing procedures. What happened is that if the side bet won, the dealer would ask "would you like to stack it?" If the player said yes, they stacked the side bet winnings on top of the initial side bet, but left it all in the "house money" circle. If they player won their blackjack hand, the dealer would just pay off both stacks of chips; of course if they lost the main hand both stacks went into the house rack. If the player declined to "stack it," the side bet winnings were pushed out of the circle back to the player.
Personally I think it took a little something away from the psychological appeal of the game, but I wasn't actually playing so who knows. The players seemed to be making okay decisions about when to "stack it," although I think they were usually too conservative. For the half hour I was there, the hit rate seemed to be pretty good, although it was a small sample size. Of course, since I wasn't playing the side bet, my first hand was a straight flush and I was dealt probably 3-4 winning "house money" hands. Thankfully not too much ribbing though.
Rack card (click for full-size version):
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
August 31st, 2012 at 10:55:31 AM
permalink
Wait a sec...
Are you saying that, when the House Money bet won, the dealer would ask, "Would you like to stack it" and then NOT stack it?
Yeah, that realy DOES take away from the psychological aspect.
The rule card does correctly specifiy that you shouldn't touch the chips in play, but it also says the dealer will move them for you. So why didn't they?
On a side note, the rule card also says to look at the layout for the odds. Firstly, shouldn't that be "payout"? Secondly, this obviously means that the casino has the option of different paytables. While that in itself isn't an issue, why didn't ShuffleMaster spend the extra few bucks to have rule cards customized for the casino? Trust me, I'm in the printing business. It really would have been just a few bucks.
Are you saying that, when the House Money bet won, the dealer would ask, "Would you like to stack it" and then NOT stack it?
Yeah, that realy DOES take away from the psychological aspect.
The rule card does correctly specifiy that you shouldn't touch the chips in play, but it also says the dealer will move them for you. So why didn't they?
On a side note, the rule card also says to look at the layout for the odds. Firstly, shouldn't that be "payout"? Secondly, this obviously means that the casino has the option of different paytables. While that in itself isn't an issue, why didn't ShuffleMaster spend the extra few bucks to have rule cards customized for the casino? Trust me, I'm in the printing business. It really would have been just a few bucks.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 31st, 2012 at 11:02:22 AM
permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBearWait a sec...
Are you saying that, when the House Money bet won, the dealer would ask, "Would you like to stack it" and then NOT stack it?
Yeah, that realy DOES take away from the psychological aspect.
The rule card does correctly specifiy that you shouldn't touch the chips in play, but it also says the dealer will move them for you. So why didn't they?
Yes and no...technically they were "stacking" something since they took the pay off from the side bet and "stacked it" on top of the initial side bet wager, to signify that the entire amount was now "on the line" with the main bet. So they are "stacking" something (and they are moving the chips), but they aren't "stacking" it onto the main bet, which I believe was the initial intention. Whereas if the player declines, the winnings and the initial side beg wager are pushed back to the player without stacking anything.
Quote:On a side note, the rule card also says to look at the layout for the odds. Firstly, shouldn't that be "payout"? Secondly, this obviously means that the casino has the option of different paytables. While that in itself isn't an issue, why didn't ShuffleMaster spend the extra few bucks to have rule cards customized for the casino? Trust me, I'm in the printing business. It really would have been just a few bucks.
Yeah, should probably say "payout." Ask Pacman why they went cheap :).
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
August 31st, 2012 at 11:10:23 AM
permalink
Has any analysis been published of the combined HE assuming the player stacks the 'House Money' side bet win at the appropriate time?
August 31st, 2012 at 11:10:44 AM
permalink
Hey, Roger's job is to maximize profit for the Evil Empire.
As far as how gaming might interpret anything ??
In 2001 gaming made Isle tape a discard rack onto a Digital 21 table to comply with existing regs. LOL
As far as how gaming might interpret anything ??
In 2001 gaming made Isle tape a discard rack onto a Digital 21 table to comply with existing regs. LOL
August 31st, 2012 at 11:20:18 AM
permalink
Yes.Quote: MidwestAPHas any analysis been published of the combined HE assuming the player stacks the 'House Money' side bet win at the appropriate time?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
August 31st, 2012 at 11:34:30 AM
permalink
Always one spoil sport in the crowd. Most players dumb enough to play a side bet will lock up their winnings. A few will bet the "house
money", but many more will put those chips in their stack as protection against losing the current hand. And squeal with delight if they win both bets.
Just my opinion, but the only one I have at the time.
Scale of 1 to 10, 5.5 and I grade high. LOL
money", but many more will put those chips in their stack as protection against losing the current hand. And squeal with delight if they win both bets.
Just my opinion, but the only one I have at the time.
Scale of 1 to 10, 5.5 and I grade high. LOL
August 31st, 2012 at 11:48:34 AM
permalink
Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: DJTeddyBear...why didn't ShuffleMaster spend the extra few bucks to have rule cards customized for the casino? Trust me, I'm in the printing business. It really would have been just a few bucks.
Ask Pacman why they went cheap :).
Actually, now that I think about it, those were probably the generic rule cards that ShuffleMaster printed for temporary use until the casino's own, branded rule cards are printed.
I guess I pointed the blame in the wrong direction. It is the casino that should have created and printed their own rule cards.
Although it seems odd that they would have table layouts printed and installed before they could get a simple rule card printed.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 31st, 2012 at 11:55:26 AM
permalink
Also explain to me why there are no rack cards for Switch in Blackhawk ? I have left hints here, but even if he is a self described
" benevolent dictator ", I never messed with Bad Bad Leroy Brown either !
" benevolent dictator ", I never messed with Bad Bad Leroy Brown either !
August 31st, 2012 at 12:13:46 PM
permalink
Quote: buzzpaffScale of 1 to 10, 5.5 and I grade high.
Buzz, is this your rating of House Money as a side bet compared to other side BJ side bets out there? Or is based on the fact that you aren't likely to rate any side bet high because you don't really like them?
Just curious as I think House Money is going to be very well received out in the market place as compared to competing products and a 5.5 rating out of 10 seems pretty low to me.
August 31st, 2012 at 12:42:03 PM
permalink
I tried to be objective. I rated Buffalo bonus a 6 when I first saw it. It's now spreading like wildfire ( pun intended ) in Colorado.
I rated Switch a 7, but was fearful that casino's would make in $10 in Colorado, which they did. After 20 years of $5 limit on BJ,
I did not expect average player to put out $20 to play a new game. And with no rack cards or written rules on display at Mardi gras
I worked at Eureka Casino while Ernie Moody was managing around the corner. I saw triple play poker before he went to Vegas.
A 10 on anybody's scale.
I was at blackhawk when Stacey Perry was demonstrating STREAK. Actually sat down as a pretend player to help her. Probably rated it a 9 to get around $5 max bet. Not surprising immediately after limits were raised to $100 2 years ago STREAK all but disappeared.
However on last visit Lodge had 3 Streak tables and Ameristar had 6 Streak tables.
Just my rating system, but it's the only one I have. Wish Roger nothing but the best. One of the few guys i have met in gaming who was not born on third base and thought he hit a triple.
FOOTNOTE :
Wiz rated my game a 3 1/2. Boy, does he ever rate high LOL
But I got a free prime rib dinner, compliments of the EVIL EMPIRE !
I rated Switch a 7, but was fearful that casino's would make in $10 in Colorado, which they did. After 20 years of $5 limit on BJ,
I did not expect average player to put out $20 to play a new game. And with no rack cards or written rules on display at Mardi gras
I worked at Eureka Casino while Ernie Moody was managing around the corner. I saw triple play poker before he went to Vegas.
A 10 on anybody's scale.
I was at blackhawk when Stacey Perry was demonstrating STREAK. Actually sat down as a pretend player to help her. Probably rated it a 9 to get around $5 max bet. Not surprising immediately after limits were raised to $100 2 years ago STREAK all but disappeared.
However on last visit Lodge had 3 Streak tables and Ameristar had 6 Streak tables.
Just my rating system, but it's the only one I have. Wish Roger nothing but the best. One of the few guys i have met in gaming who was not born on third base and thought he hit a triple.
FOOTNOTE :
Wiz rated my game a 3 1/2. Boy, does he ever rate high LOL
But I got a free prime rib dinner, compliments of the EVIL EMPIRE !
August 31st, 2012 at 1:00:44 PM
permalink
Sounds good Buzz....let's face it, not even Roger is good at predicting what will work and if anyone should know you would think it would the top development guy at the #1 proprietary game development company in the world! It is a very unpredictable marketplace for sure!
August 31st, 2012 at 1:08:51 PM
permalink
The market can be manipulated. For instance, you can always limit the opportunities for other games / side bets to appear soon or never appear. It's marketing 101 in any industry. Roger is a superb game designer and a marketing genius.
August 31st, 2012 at 1:49:03 PM
permalink
Roger is a top of heap at SMI for sure. But I will put Stacey Perry up against anybody marketing games today. !
August 31st, 2012 at 1:51:34 PM
permalink
Have not seen her for a long time. Any new games from MAO???Quote: buzzpaffRoger is a top of heap at SMI for sure. But I will put Stacey Perry up against anybody marketing games today. !
August 31st, 2012 at 1:55:35 PM
permalink
No that I know of. She caught me trying to get confidential info. LOL
Actually another employee brought my name up in a staff meeting about this dumb guy trying to get into proprietary files.
Luckily Stacey considers me family. I am almost there on my game. Probably gonna give her first shot.
See, Roger lucks out again. LOL
Actually another employee brought my name up in a staff meeting about this dumb guy trying to get into proprietary files.
Luckily Stacey considers me family. I am almost there on my game. Probably gonna give her first shot.
See, Roger lucks out again. LOL
August 31st, 2012 at 2:26:04 PM
permalink
Because of regulations in Washington, casinos are not allowed to physically stack chips on top of the player's main bet.
The player instead may simply choose to keep the House Money proceeds in action; he gets paid again if his hand beats the dealer's. Mathematically, it's the same as stacking, but I agree it's slightly less appealing from a psychological standpoint.
We have a similar issue in Australia and New Zealand.
House Money is now available for play in the following casinos:
Drift on Inn, Washington
Pala, California
Jackson Rancheria, California
Cannery, Las Vegas
It is coming soon to the following casinos:
Isle of Capri, Kansas City, Missouri
Hollywood Casino, Kansas City, Kansas
Chips Casino La Center, Washington
Chips Casino Lakewood, Washington
Circus Circus, Reno
Golden Nugget, Washington
Hard Rock, Albuquerque
Harrington Raceway & Casino, Delaware
Mystique, Iowa
Palace Casino, Washington
Siena Hotel and Spa, Reno
Wynn, Las Vegas
--Roger
The player instead may simply choose to keep the House Money proceeds in action; he gets paid again if his hand beats the dealer's. Mathematically, it's the same as stacking, but I agree it's slightly less appealing from a psychological standpoint.
We have a similar issue in Australia and New Zealand.
House Money is now available for play in the following casinos:
Drift on Inn, Washington
Pala, California
Jackson Rancheria, California
Cannery, Las Vegas
It is coming soon to the following casinos:
Isle of Capri, Kansas City, Missouri
Hollywood Casino, Kansas City, Kansas
Chips Casino La Center, Washington
Chips Casino Lakewood, Washington
Circus Circus, Reno
Golden Nugget, Washington
Hard Rock, Albuquerque
Harrington Raceway & Casino, Delaware
Mystique, Iowa
Palace Casino, Washington
Siena Hotel and Spa, Reno
Wynn, Las Vegas
--Roger
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:22:45 PM
permalink
"Coming to Missouri" but tests in the KC area...bah.
I have a feeling this is going to be a hit though. This could eventually challenge the 21+3 stranglehold in STL!
I have a feeling this is going to be a hit though. This could eventually challenge the 21+3 stranglehold in STL!
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:58:25 PM
permalink
Quote: tringlomane"Coming to Missouri" but tests in the KC area...bah.!
We will show this to Lumiere Place at G2E.
September 15th, 2012 at 4:55:22 AM
permalink
Matt Villano
Wednesday, September 12, 2012
This month, when Jackson Rancheria Casino Resort in Jackson (Amador County) debuted a table game from Las Vegas' Shuffle Master, ours became one of four regions in the country to get the chance to try it out.
Before the dealer resolves the game of blackjack, players who win the House Money bet must make an important decision: What should they do with the money they have already won? Players are only going to want to press (or "cap") their blackjack bets if they feel they've got a strong hand and the dealer has a weak one.
Once players have decided how to apply House Money wagers, blackjack proceeds as usual. House Money wagers are paid regardless of whether the dealer has blackjack (and play is stopped before players even have a chance to cap their bets).
So far, Jackson has the side bet on two blackjack tables - one table with a six-deck shoe and another table that deals double-deck. Laird said the casino already is considering adding more.
Before you head out to try the game, be warned: Winning the House Money wager is harder than you think. If you're going to bet the side circle, start small and work your way up. Just because they call it "House Money" doesn't mean you have to give it all back before you leave.
Matt Villano is a freelance writer. E-mail: 96hours@sfchronicle.com Twitter: @mattvillano
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/gaming/article/House-Money-new-blackjack-option-3860799.php#ixzz26XQc8uVV
Wednesday, September 12, 2012
This month, when Jackson Rancheria Casino Resort in Jackson (Amador County) debuted a table game from Las Vegas' Shuffle Master, ours became one of four regions in the country to get the chance to try it out.
Before the dealer resolves the game of blackjack, players who win the House Money bet must make an important decision: What should they do with the money they have already won? Players are only going to want to press (or "cap") their blackjack bets if they feel they've got a strong hand and the dealer has a weak one.
Once players have decided how to apply House Money wagers, blackjack proceeds as usual. House Money wagers are paid regardless of whether the dealer has blackjack (and play is stopped before players even have a chance to cap their bets).
So far, Jackson has the side bet on two blackjack tables - one table with a six-deck shoe and another table that deals double-deck. Laird said the casino already is considering adding more.
Before you head out to try the game, be warned: Winning the House Money wager is harder than you think. If you're going to bet the side circle, start small and work your way up. Just because they call it "House Money" doesn't mean you have to give it all back before you leave.
Matt Villano is a freelance writer. E-mail: 96hours@sfchronicle.com Twitter: @mattvillano
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/gaming/article/House-Money-new-blackjack-option-3860799.php#ixzz26XQc8uVV
September 15th, 2012 at 11:02:53 PM
permalink
We installed the game in one of our casinos (WA state) last week. Once we get a feel for how it is doing, it will likely be added in more places. I'll let everyone know how the players are responding to it.
I wish the state rules were a little clearer on a few points. Mostly the house edge, hit rate, and max wagers. With a $300 max wager cap in WA State, I assume that you may not add money to your primary wager that brings the total to over that amount, but it doesn't specify if that is true. Is an addition considered part of the primary blackjack wager or is it a separate wager? This will make a difference if you are planning to wait to play the House Money wager until the count is +1/+2/+3 to increase your chances on the primary wager so you can add to it if you win the House Money wager. The way I understand the state rules, you cannot actually put the extra money on the primary wager (it stays next to it) and it does not clarify if it is separate or included in the wager in relation to the max wager permissible.
Again, once I learn more, I will share what I find.
I wish the state rules were a little clearer on a few points. Mostly the house edge, hit rate, and max wagers. With a $300 max wager cap in WA State, I assume that you may not add money to your primary wager that brings the total to over that amount, but it doesn't specify if that is true. Is an addition considered part of the primary blackjack wager or is it a separate wager? This will make a difference if you are planning to wait to play the House Money wager until the count is +1/+2/+3 to increase your chances on the primary wager so you can add to it if you win the House Money wager. The way I understand the state rules, you cannot actually put the extra money on the primary wager (it stays next to it) and it does not clarify if it is separate or included in the wager in relation to the max wager permissible.
Again, once I learn more, I will share what I find.
September 17th, 2012 at 5:20:27 AM
permalink
Brian -
It seems to me that you should be able to cap the bet for the full amount of the side bet winnings, since the original bet was below the Washington State limit.
You might want to contact ShuffleMaster directly about this.
Then again, Roger Snow, the ShuffleMater executive who came up with the House Money idea, stops by WoV from time to time under the user name 'PacMan', so he'll probably see your comments soon enough.
It seems to me that you should be able to cap the bet for the full amount of the side bet winnings, since the original bet was below the Washington State limit.
You might want to contact ShuffleMaster directly about this.
Then again, Roger Snow, the ShuffleMater executive who came up with the House Money idea, stops by WoV from time to time under the user name 'PacMan', so he'll probably see your comments soon enough.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
September 17th, 2012 at 8:19:36 PM
permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBearBrian -
It seems to me that you should be able to cap the bet for the full amount of the side bet winnings, since the original bet was below the Washington State limit.
You might want to contact ShuffleMaster directly about this.
Then again, Roger Snow, the ShuffleMater executive who came up with the House Money idea, stops by WoV from time to time under the user name 'PacMan', so he'll probably see your comments soon enough.
Different jurisdictions have different rules; however, it is mathematically permissible to cap less than the entire amount. Of course, the player should never do this, just as he should never double down for less than the full amount.
--Roger
September 18th, 2012 at 4:56:56 AM
permalink
Roger -
Brian's point was, if you hit a House Money payment, you aren't allowed to fully cap the BJ base bet if that causes the base bet to exceed the Washington state betting limit.
It doesn't sound right to me. In my view, the total initial wager is all the law should be concerned with.
My point about getting you involved was this:
If the casino has the rule because of a misinterpretation of the law, you might want to contact the casino.
If that's the correct interpretation of the law, you would be a logical choice to confirm it.
Brian's point was, if you hit a House Money payment, you aren't allowed to fully cap the BJ base bet if that causes the base bet to exceed the Washington state betting limit.
It doesn't sound right to me. In my view, the total initial wager is all the law should be concerned with.
My point about getting you involved was this:
If the casino has the rule because of a misinterpretation of the law, you might want to contact the casino.
If that's the correct interpretation of the law, you would be a logical choice to confirm it.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
September 18th, 2012 at 7:17:48 AM
permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBearRoger -
Brian's point was, if you hit a House Money payment, you aren't allowed to fully cap the BJ base bet if that causes the base bet to exceed the Washington state betting limit.
It doesn't sound right to me. In my view, the total initial wager is all the law should be concerned with.
My point about getting you involved was this:
If the casino has the rule because of a misinterpretation of the law, you might want to contact the casino.
If that's the correct interpretation of the law, you would be a logical choice to confirm it.
Thanks for clarifying. I will investigate today.
September 18th, 2012 at 9:01:19 AM
permalink
I just analyzed this yesterday. You can find my results in my blackjack appendix 8. As always, I welcome all comments and corrections.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
September 18th, 2012 at 9:52:00 AM
permalink
Wiz, it might be helpful to note the appropriate basic BJ play that follows capping your HM winning bet on to your BJ main bet. I realize this is repetitive from basic BJ strategy page, but since the unit cost of doubling or splitting is significantly increased after an HM win that necessitates a capping decision, it may be worth noting somewhere in the write up.
As an example, on some of the pairs, you are going to stack the 4 House Money units on top of your original BJ bet (for a total of at least five units) and then split that pair and be required to add 5 more units to the hand. Casual players making the HM side bet need to be prepared for those increased betting levels which they may not realize are required to get the HE down to the 2.79%.
I also seem to recall that Roger indicated that the HE was around 5% so I was pleasantly surprised to see your 2.79% HE.
As an example, on some of the pairs, you are going to stack the 4 House Money units on top of your original BJ bet (for a total of at least five units) and then split that pair and be required to add 5 more units to the hand. Casual players making the HM side bet need to be prepared for those increased betting levels which they may not realize are required to get the HE down to the 2.79%.
I also seem to recall that Roger indicated that the HE was around 5% so I was pleasantly surprised to see your 2.79% HE.
September 18th, 2012 at 10:54:04 AM
permalink
Sick Question from a sick mind :
I get AK suited. Dealer has an Ace up. Will I be paid before he asks for insurance. The count ( forgive me Dan ) is +14 and I want to insure my full bet ( original and side bet winnings )
Also would I bet correct in saying I will hit side bet about 1 in 5 times ( math illiterate ) and 2 out of 3 times hit will pay 1-1 .
Don't sound that exciting to me. Or am i wrong again ?
I get AK suited. Dealer has an Ace up. Will I be paid before he asks for insurance. The count ( forgive me Dan ) is +14 and I want to insure my full bet ( original and side bet winnings )
Also would I bet correct in saying I will hit side bet about 1 in 5 times ( math illiterate ) and 2 out of 3 times hit will pay 1-1 .
Don't sound that exciting to me. Or am i wrong again ?
September 18th, 2012 at 11:05:26 AM
permalink
Where is the omnipresent " BENEVOLENT DICTATOR " when i have a question ??
September 18th, 2012 at 11:34:13 AM
permalink
You're looking for an answer in only 10 minutes?Quote: buzzpaffWhere is the omnipresent " BENEVOLENT DICTATOR " when i have a question ??
Unlike you, he has more important things to do. He's running his empire.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
September 18th, 2012 at 11:41:45 AM
permalink
Unlike you and I, he is omnipresent and all-knowing. Usually he puts me back in my cage in a time interval much shorter
than today. But then G2E is around the corner and he is probably checking for possible flaws in Shufflemaster's shield of
invulnerability.
I thought perhaps a certain dealer might know the insurance answer. If I get a 9 to 1 payoff, I deserve the right to re-invest that
money in an insurance bet that averages 8 % return. Remember, the True count is + 14 !
than today. But then G2E is around the corner and he is probably checking for possible flaws in Shufflemaster's shield of
invulnerability.
I thought perhaps a certain dealer might know the insurance answer. If I get a 9 to 1 payoff, I deserve the right to re-invest that
money in an insurance bet that averages 8 % return. Remember, the True count is + 14 !
