100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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January 11th, 2015 at 7:23:36 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Doubtful.

If you have 1-2 high ADT days as the entirety of your play history, you're going to get high ADT offers.

If you have 1-2 high ADT days plus dozens of low ADT days as your play history, you're going to get mid ADT offers.



well, lets see what I will get next month.
I already made diamond this year. $50k coin-in/5k TC.
but ALL of my previous play has been 75 TC and a couple of 0 days. for those 0 days, I was passing through the area, just played my $10 freeplay and left.

oh.. and I made a couple of hundred $ in my Diamond in a day run! :)
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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January 11th, 2015 at 7:34:46 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Doubtful.

If you have 1-2 high ADT days as the entirety of your play history, you're going to get high ADT offers.

If you have 1-2 high ADT days plus dozens of low ADT days as your play history, you're going to get mid ADT offers.



This has always bothered me. And I am not specifically talking CET here. I actually play little to zero @ CET.

But here's the thing:

Player A plays once a month, puts through $10 grand in coin in. His ADT = $10 grand.

Player B, plays 8 times during the month. Twice he records big coin-in plays of say $35 grand and $30 grand. The other six visits are shorter visits, maybe stopping in for a meal and small play or maybe only playing through weekly free play offer. But those 6 visits total $15 grand coin in. That's $80 grand coin in over his 8 visits that month. His daily ADT =$10 grand as well.

So both players will generate the same offers, based on the ADT. But isn't player B really worth 8 times as much to the casino? Shouldn't he receive better offers? I think offers should be based on your ACCUMULATED total for the month, not average totals.
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.
Dieter
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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January 11th, 2015 at 7:57:37 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I think offers should be based on your ACCUMULATED total for the month, not average totals.



I inquired at a casino out here in the middle of nowhere... "I noticed that my mailer offers keep changing... How do you decide what to offer?"

They handed me a poorly photocopied memo, including tier levels. (This chain doesn't usually share that sort of information, apparently - asking at other properties, they won't tell me what the tiers are, won't tell me how it's calculated, etc.)

The memo stated that their calculation was based on the greater of theo or actual casino win for the nine month period ending two months before the mailer was sent. Their offer tiers were based on a total theo/actual level over the 9 month period, then divided by 9 to make a monthly number, and that monthly theo/actual number established what tier of offers was sent.


Fundamentally, I agree - you run so much action, they ought to reward you based on that total - shouldn't matter if you run it over 2 days or 8 days or 20 days.

Of course, their costs to take the action are lower if you run it over 2 days instead of 20, so I kind of understand why they might prefer to court the business of people who play $10k/day for 2 days, rather than $1k/day for 20 days.

And yes, they seemed to know the difference between running $10k coin in on a 99.6% VP, and running $10k coin in on a 95% slot, and they did seem to change their offers accordingly.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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January 11th, 2015 at 8:43:43 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Player A plays once a month, puts through $10 grand in coin in. His ADT = $10 grand.



This is not correct. ADT refers to the average daily theoretical WIN for the casino. If your 10k is played on 9/6 Jacks or Better you have a lower ADT than if you played 8/5 Double Double Bonus.
kewlj
kewlj
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January 11th, 2015 at 8:56:08 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

This is not correct. ADT refers to the average daily theoretical WIN for the casino. If your 10k is played on 9/6 Jacks or Better you have a lower ADT than if you played 8/5 Double Double Bonus.



Yes, ok....you are correct. But you know the point I was making.

I mean, I am an AP, so everything I do, including how much I put through a machine and in what time frame is calculated for maximum EV return.

But lets talk about a non-AP. A local. Say living here in Vegas. He stops by his local casino on Saturday or Sunday morning to wager some football. He would like to play some on a machine for a half hour, but he knows it will drive down his average. So the way the casino computes his value, they are discouraging and driving away his business. Or maybe a couple go out to the movies at their local casino. (local type casinos here is Vegas usually have non-gaming activities such as movie theaters or bowling alleys). After the movies the wife would like to play some slots for an hour, but she knows it will drive down here average, so doesn't.
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.
RS
RS
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January 11th, 2015 at 9:29:21 PM permalink
I don't know of any CET casino that caters to locals (Rio pretends to) or has bowling alleys or movie theatres. And most locals don't play much, if at all, at CET stores.
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darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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January 11th, 2015 at 9:42:00 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

I inquired at a casino out here in the middle of nowhere... "I noticed that my mailer offers keep changing... How do you decide what to offer?"

They handed me a poorly photocopied memo, including tier levels. (This chain doesn't usually share that sort of information, apparently - asking at other properties, they won't tell me what the tiers are, won't tell me how it's calculated, etc.)

The memo stated that their calculation was based on the greater of theo or actual casino win for the nine month period ending two months before the mailer was sent. Their offer tiers were based on a total theo/actual level over the 9 month period, then divided by 9 to make a monthly number, and that monthly theo/actual number established what tier of offers was sent.


Fundamentally, I agree - you run so much action, they ought to reward you based on that total - shouldn't matter if you run it over 2 days or 8 days or 20 days.

Of course, their costs to take the action are lower if you run it over 2 days instead of 20, so I kind of understand why they might prefer to court the business of people who play $10k/day for 2 days, rather than $1k/day for 20 days.

And yes, they seemed to know the difference between running $10k coin in on a 99.6% VP, and running $10k coin in on a 95% slot, and they did seem to change their offers accordingly.



This is interesting because if the memo is up to date, then CET does NOT use a daily average. They are using a monthly average. I suppose that would be called a AMT.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
kewlj
kewlj
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January 11th, 2015 at 9:43:40 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

This is interesting because if the memo is up to date, then CET does NOT use a daily average. They are using a monthly average. I suppose that would be called a AMT.



deleted. Quoted wrong post
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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January 11th, 2015 at 9:46:25 PM permalink
Quote: RS

I don't know of any CET casino that caters to locals (Rio pretends to) or has bowling alleys or movie theatres. And most locals don't play much, if at all, at CET stores.

although the thread is about CET, I believe Kewlj is talking about casinos in general or others that are based heavily on ADT.
kewlj
kewlj
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January 11th, 2015 at 9:47:02 PM permalink
Quote: RS

I don't know of any CET casino that caters to locals (Rio pretends to) or has bowling alleys or movie theatres. And most locals don't play much, if at all, at CET stores.



Perhaps you missed the very first line of my post where I said that I wasn't specifically talking about CET.

Almost all casino, including the local type that I was referring to use an average when determining a players value and I just think that can encourage players who care about that to not play at times that are going to bring their average down. That seems counter-productive on the casino's part to me.
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.

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