Build a Wheel Video Poker
December 23rd, 2011 at 5:24:19 PM
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I just saw a new video poker game at the Red Rock called Build a Wheel. Here are the rules.
*: The top wheel award at the Red Rock is progressive. At the time I was there on 12/23/11 it was 10,263. At VideoPoker.com it is a flat 10,000. It probably starts at 10,000 and goes up until somebody hits it. For the sake of discussion, let's just assume 10,000.
Here are the average awards for each hand.
I think a good opening math question is how many hands would the player need to play before he gets to spin the wheel. In other words, how many hands before he is dealt six low deal hands (three of a kind to flush) or one high deal hand (full house or higher), whichever comes first. For now I'll hold off on positing my answer.
- The game can be played based on 3-play or 5-play video poker. The rest of the rules shall refer to the 3-play.
- If the player bets max coins on all three hands then for the price of one hand the player may enable the "build a wheel" feature. So, a max bet would be 20 coins.
- The wheel has eight slices. Two are already filled in with 10,000* and 4,000.
- For a dealt three of a kind, straight, or flush the player is awarded one slice. The average amounts are in the table below.
- For a dealt full house or higher the rest of the wheel is filled in according to the average amounts in the table below.
- When the wheel is full the player spins it and is awarded the win where it stops. I do not know how the wheel is weighted (I'm working on getting that information).
- Before you think about Wonging the game left in high states, if the player has earned at least one slice he may invoke a surrender award, resetting the wheel to the default position with just to two initial wins.
*: The top wheel award at the Red Rock is progressive. At the time I was there on 12/23/11 it was 10,263. At VideoPoker.com it is a flat 10,000. It probably starts at 10,000 and goes up until somebody hits it. For the sake of discussion, let's just assume 10,000.
Here are the average awards for each hand.
| Hand | Combinations | Prob | Average win |
|---|---|---|---|
| Royal flush | 4 | 0.000002 | 4000.00 |
| Straight flush | 36 | 0.000014 | 4000.00 |
| Four of a kind | 624 | 0.000240 | 2188.46 |
| Full house | 3,744 | 0.001441 | 938.46 |
| Flush | 5,108 | 0.001965 | 1468.13 |
| Straight | 10,200 | 0.003925 | 952.50 |
| Three of a kind | 54,912 | 0.021128 | 650.00 |
| Two pair | 123,552 | 0.047539 | 0.00 |
| Pair | 1,098,240 | 0.422569 | 0.00 |
| Nothing | 1,302,540 | 0.501177 | 0.00 |
| Total | 2,598,960 | 1.000000 | 0.00 |
I think a good opening math question is how many hands would the player need to play before he gets to spin the wheel. In other words, how many hands before he is dealt six low deal hands (three of a kind to flush) or one high deal hand (full house or higher), whichever comes first. For now I'll hold off on positing my answer.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 23rd, 2011 at 9:40:52 PM
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I think it is 180.4229 hands.
I heart Crystal Math.
December 24th, 2011 at 6:53:09 AM
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Quote: CrystalMathI think it is 180.4229 hands.
I agree.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 24th, 2011 at 7:48:55 AM
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Quote: CrystalMathI think it is 180.4229 hands.
Lol, I like the fact you waited over 4 hours, but 'we' were never going to figure this out ;-)
So if you surrender, do you get anything? Are you just surrendering to spite other players, or do you get a small payout?
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
December 24th, 2011 at 7:49:09 AM
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It is odd to me that the weighting details are not on the help screens, but maybe they can omit it because the feature doesn't affect player strategy.
I heart Crystal Math.
December 24th, 2011 at 9:38:03 AM
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Quote: WizardofEnglandSo if you surrender, do you get anything? Are you just surrendering to spite other players, or do you get a small payout?
Yes, you get something. I played the 5¢ game and filled in only one slice for 1200. My cash-out award was $7.
Quote: CrystalMathIt is odd to me that the weighting details are not on the help screens, but maybe they can omit it because the feature doesn't affect player strategy.
I view the glass as half full. I was happy to see the average slice awards. I've never seen game rules with a wheel voluntarily disclose how it was weighted if it was weighted unevenly. In my opinion, it should be required to disclose this information. Alas, I don't write the rules.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
January 8th, 2012 at 11:54:02 AM
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So any more info on the return of the game? I can't wait to play it if the return is reasonable.
January 8th, 2012 at 2:02:14 PM
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Quote: bugsylucianoSo any more info on the return of the game? I can't wait to play it if the return is reasonable.
I think IGT will at least give me the final returns, hopefully this week. Maybe I'll get the wheel weightings as well.
What I expect to see is the return is slightly better than the base game by itself, like by 0.1%.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
January 16th, 2012 at 10:33:53 AM
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I finally heard from IGT. They would not tell me the wheel weightings. I also should have asked about the average progressive win, but I doubt they would have told me that either. What they would tell me is the average wheel win was just under 900 credits.
Armed with that information, I created the following Build a Wheel page. Please have a look and let me know what you think.
Armed with that information, I created the following Build a Wheel page. Please have a look and let me know what you think.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
January 16th, 2012 at 10:54:30 AM
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I have a couple questions:
1. in the Deuces Wild version of the game, do the wheel-filling wins need to be natural? 22K63 isn't going to get me a slice, right?
2. When you're saying that the player needs a "dealt" 3OAK or better, I'm taking that to be on the first 5 cards - as opposed to a "drawn" 3OAK or better. That being said, I must be the most unlucky VP player ever. 180 hands? Really? I can't even think of the last time I was dealt better than 2 pair on a JoB machine.
1. in the Deuces Wild version of the game, do the wheel-filling wins need to be natural? 22K63 isn't going to get me a slice, right?
2. When you're saying that the player needs a "dealt" 3OAK or better, I'm taking that to be on the first 5 cards - as opposed to a "drawn" 3OAK or better. That being said, I must be the most unlucky VP player ever. 180 hands? Really? I can't even think of the last time I was dealt better than 2 pair on a JoB machine.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
January 16th, 2012 at 11:04:53 AM
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1. For deuces wild games, deuces are not wild for purposes of earning slices.
2. Yes, "dealt" means based on the initial hand. The term for the final hand, is on the "draw."
2. Yes, "dealt" means based on the initial hand. The term for the final hand, is on the "draw."
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
January 16th, 2012 at 8:14:27 PM
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There's a sim available online for gold players at videopoker.com
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
January 16th, 2012 at 8:15:24 PM
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Quote: NareedThere's a sim available online for gold players at videopoker.com
Yes, I know. Unfortunately, I'm not gold. Even if I were, it wouldn't provide the necessary answers.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
January 16th, 2012 at 8:41:42 PM
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Quote: WizardYes, I know. Unfortunately, I'm not gold. Even if I were, it wouldn't provide the necessary answers.
Well, no. But it's always better to play the game to get a feel for it. of course, you already have.
BTW, I'm not gold either. I don't see any advantages to it.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
