Assistance Working Up To Higher Denominations

Hello!

I come here asking for assistance, the first thread I made was about bankroll calculations about a good game my casino was offering, well, soon after that posting it would seem that my casino had done a complete purge of 9/6 JoB and NSUD Dueces Wild. I also highly underestimated the required bankroll anyway and by the time I found the amount required, I found out it wasn't even worth pursuing to break-even so I have mostly done recreational gambling, in fact I should say being a break-even player and just having cheap entertainment for a good value is still mostly my goal, I couldn't imagine myself trying to purely AP these machines.

Recently, my casino has remodeled, this included moving all the Video Poker machines to one room, and lo and behold, I found 4 machines that avoided the purge. These machines have the following:

1$ 5-Play 9/6 JoB (25$ Bet)
1$ 5-Play NSUD DW44 (25$ Bet)
1$ 5-Play 9/7 TDB (25$ Bet)

Now, my main problem? I cannot afford 25$ a spin at my current funds, my risk of ruin is simply to high to justify playing these games, and though I could save up some funds over a very long period, there is another part of the equation I need to make these games even above 100%, and that is the cashback.

My local casino gives 0.3% in cashback regularly, this already makes the DW44 barely +EV, however, for people with a better slot club rating, the give double comps on certain days of the week, this would make the cashback 0.6%, and all of these games +EV. However, I am a plebian that is not rated good enough, and in order to even play these, I need to work my way up to the next rating level. Currently, I reserve 100$-200$ a month to gambling entertainment, so saving up the bankroll to play the good machines is simply going to take to long, and as I said, I am perfectly fine gambling for entertainment knowing that I am playing a -EV game, but I would like to not pass up the opportunity to play the best game I can. I've made the mistake of thinking variance is on my side trying to play better paying games at a denomination I cannot afford (which is why my current BR is so low), I intend to not make this mistake again and if that means for entertainment sakes I have to play some worse games, then so be it, I'm -EV before I get a better rating anyway. This is where I would love to ask some opinions and assistance on the other available games and the best way to approach this. Before I continue, yes I know the best thing would be to just save and not play at all until I have the BR, but I play for recreation as well and in this case I am ok losing a certain amount of money and chalking it up to entertainment.

Current BR: 300$
100$ - 200$ per month set aside for gambling entertainment
Required action for better rating: 6000$
Play Speed: 250 hands an hour (yes I'm a really slow player)
Session Length: 3 hours, once or twice a month, so a total of maximum of 6 hours.

Other games offered at this casino that are available:

1$ Single Line 9/5 JoB (5$ Bet) (98.45%)
1$ Single Line Illinois/Airport Deuces (5$ Bet) (98.91%)
25c 5-Play 9/5 JoB (6.25$ Bet) (98.45%)
25c Single Line 8/5 JoB (1.25$ Bet) (97.30%)

All the nickel machines are 95% or below, I would get better returns short coining the 9/5 25c multi-play machine. At my current very low BR, I understand that I am aiming for lower variance so I am going to stick with DW or JoB as my games of choice to play. My plan basically involves playing the game that would give me the least RoR for the once or twice a month. Replenish any money I lose with my gambling money I set aside, and slowly work up the ladder and hopefully by the time I can play the good machines, I will have a reasonable BR to play them and theoretically be +EV, though I know the lifetime BR for 25$ a bet is astronomical so I still would be setting aside the money every month to gamble with just to account for variance.

My thoughts were to just short coin the 25c 9/5 Multi-Play machine until I build up more funds, then play the 1$ DW44 machines, and play those until I finally have a reasonable amount to play with on the good multi-play machines. That said, I do not have the software nor the formulas to know exact numbers and how this would pair out, theoretically I just need to lose less than what I replenish my BR with, but the longer I play the worse games, the more money I will lose in the long run, is it even worth upgrading to the slightly better paying games since I am going to be putting more action by playing at 5$ a bet instead of a quarter?

Any assistance or advice on this would be highly appreciated, I understand that my RoR is 100% since I am playing a -EV game no matter the BR, but I will need to play to upgrade my slot rating anyway, and I am perfectly fine losing a little money to recreationally playing worse machines, I just do not want to lose half my funds every time I go and slowly build up my BR to play at the better higher denominations. Even when I do finally get the funds, I am only getting at most 100.33%, so it's not like I am going to be making big bucks doing this anyway, I imagine variance will kill me way before I see that .33% in EV.

Hello!

Can you describe what you mean by "short coining"?

Many models of multi-play video poker can be played in a single line mode, at full coin, enabling the 800 for 1 payout on the royal flush.

If the 5 cent machines have a progressive meter, they may go positive at some point, but with a 95% base game, this is unlikely.

Quote: Dieter

Hello!

Can you describe what you mean by "short coining"?

Many models of multi-play video poker can be played in a single line mode, at full coin, enabling the 800 for 1 payout on the royal flush.

If the 5 cent machines have a progressive meter, they may go positive at some point, but with a 95% base game, this is unlikely.
link to original post

As I recall (and there may be exceptions), with 3-, 5-, and 10-play, you must bet all hands in order to bet more than 1-coin per hand; however, with 25-play or greater, you may bet 5-coins on any number of hands from 1 to max.

I also know this to be true on multi-line Ultimate X (as 3-, 5-, 10-play). I’m not so well versed on other VP with extra features.

Hello, TCS, and welcome!

I feel your pain of having a low BR and wanting to play the better, more expensive games! I don’t know whether your local offers other promotions, but maybe that’s one way to stretch your monthly gaming allotment a bit further?

You are asking good questions, and your thinking seems to be sound. The lack of responses may just be due to a bleak situation…

I just wanted to post in order to point out that short coining your $1 NSUD gives a slightly better return than the other, cheaper options you mentioned. Assuming a 250-coin RF, playing $1 on one hand would yield a 98.5018% return with a variance of 12.428072. Obviously, the strategy would be a bit different from full pay…

[EDIT:] Best of luck whatever you choose!

Oh my I should have explained this! Whoops!
As camapl just said though:

These particular machines, I cannot play 5 coins unless I play every line, the ONLY multi-play machines I can play single line 5 credits are the Super Times Pay and Ultimate X machines (both have 95% returns, not worth it). So the best I can do on these machines at my current funds is to just short coin them, better returns than the nickels machines, and no VP machine in this particular casino has a progressive jackpot.

There is a casino about 15 mins way from this one that has 7/5 JoB progressive at 25 cents single line, but it almost never gets to break even before it the progressive gets hit, there's only a bank of 10 VP machines in that entire casino so it's hard to find a spot even when the progressive isn't break-even.

Quote: camapl

Hello, TCS, and welcome!

I feel your pain of having a low BR and wanting to play the better, more expensive games! I don’t know whether your local offers other promotions, but maybe that’s one way to stretch your monthly gaming allotment a bit further?

You are asking good questions, and your thinking seems to be sound. The lack of responses may just be due to a bleak situation…

I just wanted to post in order to point out that short coining your $1 NSUD gives a slightly better return than the other, cheaper options you mentioned. Assuming a 250-coin RF, playing $1 on one hand would yield a 98.5018% return with a variance of 12.428072. Obviously, the strategy would be a bit different from full pay…

[EDIT:] Best of luck whatever you choose!
link to original post

My local casino offers me 5$ freeplay every day of the month, I simply can't put that much money into action at my current level and that's the best I will get for quite a while, I do not know if it would temporarily be better by just busting out on the better paying machines and putting in like 1k of action if I get lucky, but I am not willing to go bust again to find out in all honesty.

EDIT: And no promotions I could take advantage of, most promos at this casino are slots/bingo. There are some monthly drawings, but that would require more funds than I have and it's not worth playing on 300 bucks to get like 3 drawing tickets.

No responses is fine! I posted on here just on the off chance I could get some input and opinions, I am perfectly aware that no matter how I fudge the math, 300$ on ANY machine my RoR is going to be high and I have a while before I even build up to be able to play the 98%+ RTP games, the only saving grace I have is that I play way slower than most players, so my hourly loss isn't as bad.

And I didn't even think about short coining NSUD! That does come out slightly better than going for 9/5 JoB! Thank you for that little tidbit! :). I still have to put in 6000 before I get that higher return though sadly.

Quote: TheCapitalShip

These particular machines, I cannot play 5 coins unless I play every line, the ONLY multi-play machines I can play single line 5 credits are the Super Times Pay and Ultimate X machines (both have 95% returns, not worth it). So the best I can do on these machines at my current funds is to just short coin them, better returns than the nickels machines, and no VP machine in this particular casino has a progressive jackpot.
link to original post

(trimmed)

Single coin. Once you've decided not to buy the full pay royal, you probably want one coin (per line) at a time. With your stated play speed of 250 hands per hour playing 25 cent machines, you should still hit $1/minute coin in, which some casinos use as a threshold for "actively playing", which may qualify you for some promotions.

Yes, single coin deuces strategy is quite different from standard.

You're absolutely right to stay away from the "novelty" feature video poker. They're fun, but the paytables are harsh. (Still waiting for my DSTP dealt royal, or even back to back dealt UX 4ok/2222. I've decided not to hold my breath.) Wheel Poker generally seems to be OK, but the strategy is different.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: TheCapitalShip

These particular machines, I cannot play 5 coins unless I play every line, the ONLY multi-play machines I can play single line 5 credits are the Super Times Pay and Ultimate X machines (both have 95% returns, not worth it). So the best I can do on these machines at my current funds is to just short coin them, better returns than the nickels machines, and no VP machine in this particular casino has a progressive jackpot.
link to original post

(trimmed)

Single coin. Once you've decided not to buy the full pay royal, you probably want one coin (per line) at a time. With your stated play speed of 250 hands per hour playing 25 cent machines, you should still hit $1/minute coin in, which some casinos use as a threshold for "actively playing", which may qualify you for some promotions.

Yes, single coin deuces strategy is quite different from standard.

You're absolutely right to stay away from the "novelty" feature video poker. They're fun, but the paytables are harsh. (Still waiting for my DSTP dealt royal, or even back to back dealt UX 4ok/2222. I've decided not to hold my breath.) Wheel Poker generally seems to be OK, but the strategy is different.
link to original post

My apologies for the improper term! I always called it short coining haha. I honestly like the novelty feature video poker, and I would play them if the paytables were decent, but they are harsh, of course they know their customers quite well, because I see the 95% special feature machines and especially the bar tops packed constantly.

As for promotions, the only reason I even get 5$ mail ins was when I got lucky on a bartop machine and I was playing 1$ a hand on the 9/5 JoB, I put in around 280$ of action that night and I was playing slower than usual as well, I will see if playing 1$/minute will get me some promotions, or even just keep giving me the 5$ free play, I will certainly take something over nothing.

The promotions are often promoted as "must be actively playing with your card inserted at (time) to be eligible for the random drawing".

I don't know exactly where you're playing, but it seems to be a fairly common scheme.

I won a few, a long time ago. I didn't even notice until someone from the club booth came over and let me know I had won extra freeplay, but would have to pull and reinsert my card to activate it.

Quote: Dieter

The promotions are often promoted as "must be actively playing with your card inserted at (time) to be eligible for the random drawing".

I don't know exactly where you're playing, but it seems to be a fairly common scheme.

I won a few, a long time ago. I didn't even notice until someone from the club booth came over and let me know I had won extra freeplay, but would have to pull and reinsert my card to activate it.
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Ooooh! If they are running that type of promotion on VP/Slots then I have no idea about it, the only promotion that I know they have is a random drawing for sitting at the table games, all the other ones I know about are either not really relevant to me, or I have no interest in them (X points for a gift, X points for beer/wine are the two that come to mind).

They do drawings every Saturday for monthly themed drawings, but that requires swiping the card every single day and it is about a 40-45 min drive there so not really worth it for me, I will have to see if active play will qualify me for anything I don't know about though, that would certainly be a pleasant surprise for me.