Trade N' Place Poker - very early look

Quote: ThatDonGuy

The information button shows the information for String Multiplier Poker.

Also, it does not specify anywhere what the probability is of being dealt a Trade Card. Presumably, it would be settable on the machine (the way the Free Ride card can be set in Multistrike), but it would be nice to know when trying to do the math.

Questions:
1. What's meant by a bet of "5 + 20" (as opposed to just saying "25")? I can change the bet to, for example, "1 + 4", with a corresponding reduction in the pay table, but would a bet of, say, "1 + 3", or just "1", be possible, and if so, what happens?
2. When the player does not do a trade, are there always 3 place cards instead of two? You left that out of the description.

Quote: RealizeGaming

Hey everyone. I wanted to share our latest video poker game with the hopes of getting your feedback and thoughts. The game is called Trade N' Place Poker and it is a stud based video poker game that allows the player to create 3 horizontal hands all from a single deck of cards. If a trade card is dealt in the opening deal, the player will choose any two cards to change spots in the matrix. Once the trade is complete, the player will then place two cards, one at a time, onto the matrix. The place cards will cover up the existing card in the hand. The game is complete upon the completion of the second place card.



Trade N' Place Link = https://www.realizegamingllc.com/dev/tradeNPlace/

A few things to keep in mind. We haven't finished the math yet and the wager that will be needed to play the game still needs to be figured out.

As always, we welcome any of your comments.

Quote: Gialmere

As a player, I'm really enjoying the hemming and hawing over what to do. It's a fun game.

On the other hand, if I owned a casino, I don't think I'd enjoy seeing my players spending so much time hemming and hawing over decisions and therefore slowing down the machine's money intake.

The tribulations of game design eh?

Quote: ThatDonGuy

My main problem with the game is, if you don't get the Trade & Place card, then there's nothing for you to do; it's a glorified slot machine.

Maybe if trade & place was always available, but (a) instead of not being to do anything without a T&P card, you are shown three face down cards and select one to be your one allowed Place (similar to how you choose one of two face down cards in Pick A Pair), and (b) modify the pay tables accordingly (for example, require at least two pair to win), it would be more inviting to players.

Quote: Wizard

All due credit for creativity and for creating a challenging thinking game.

However, as others pointed out, I'm concerned the hands per hour would be too low for the game to pull its weight. I am also concerned that even if you set the return at 100%, player errors will be very high and the bottom 99% of players will get killed.

The math of this will be a huge challenge. Please don't be stingy with your math guy, this one will require a monumental effort.

Quote: Gialmere

Still playing this.

Question: Trades are voluntary but are placements always mandatory?

Also, I see on your website that the game can be played on a 5x5 grid with hands scored both vertically and horizontally. Now THAT would be intense.

Quote: SOOPOO

Just played it for quite a bit. Up a few dollars after maybe an hour? I find it pretty easy to figure out what to do. Occasionally I have to go through a few permutations. But my brain works that way.
I can see 'average Joe' being overwhelmed by many of the necessary decisions. I mean, realize how few BJ players can even play basic strategy. Butttttt..... I think 'average Joe' won't realize how poorly he is playing and may like the game.

One positive is that it is a rare hand that you don't at least win some of your bet back. Seems like a slow bleed until you hit 4 of a kind.

I'd play it if I need to accumulate points.....

Quote: gordonm888

This is on the demo game, but I wanted to show it off anyway.

Quote: LoquaciousMoFW

I have found this game most addictive, but I fear it plays too slowly for casinos.

Did have an interesting deal:


Final result was interesting too...

Show Spoiler

Quote: LoquaciousMoFW

I agree with the increased wager amount; I'd actually play this in a casino for $30 a hand, and I usually max out at $5 a deal. Of course that is probably because the RTP is currently high :) Got up to $24,000 in that session.

The dealt royal was nice, but the resulting 9 card royal interested me more.

Quote: gordonm888

I too am finding this game too be addictive.

Trade + 2 places mode: Very fun, but certainly +EV for the player with current wager size
3 Places mode: Not fun but certainly is -EV for the player

I imagine that once your mathematician figures out the EV for the player in both modes, you will adjust the frequency of the Trade + 2 places mode: downward. But if that trade mode becomes too infrequent I would not play this game - the trade decision is what is making this game fun for me. So you might want to consider increasing the initial wager size or adjusting paytable downward

I have seen that I play the game faster as I become more accustomed to it.

Quote: gordonm888

One might try generating the 15 card board via monte carlo with an RNG, and then looping through all the possible decisions to generate optimum player strategy for each randomly-selected 15 card board. That would still be a massive analysis.

Quote: gordonm888

You have reduced the frequency of the "Trade+ 2 Places" in the demo game! AArgh! Its still fun , but its also still +EV. The issue is the frequency with which player can make full houses and 4oaks.

I am a gaming mathematician, and I have tried to dream up ways to analyze this game. There are 17 or 18 cards involved in the game, so looping through all the possibilities is not possible. Also, given 15 cards on the board, a Trade decision involves 75 different options and a place decision involves 15 different options.

So the total number of combinations to be evaluated to create optimum player decisions in a brute force looping code is:

Place 3
c(52,5) *c(47,5)* C(42,5) * 37 * 15 *36 * 15 * 35 * 15 = 7.6 x 10^25

Trade + Place 2
c(52,5) *c(47,5)* C(42,5) *75 * 37 * 15 *36 * 15 = 5.3 x 10^26

So, I believe that is too many to do by a brute force looping code.

One might try generating the 15 card board via monte carlo with an RNG, and then looping through all the possible decisions to generate optimum player strategy for each randomly-selected 15 card board. That would still be a massive analysis.

OR, you might allow players to play a demo game that you post online and accumulate information on the outcomes of the Trade mode and the Place 3 mode.

Can you share with us the approach for analyzing this game?

Quote: RealizeGaming

.....Trade N' Place - original 5x3 version
-use this link for trade + 2 place or just 3 places
https://www.realizegamingllc.com/demo/tradeNPlace/

Quote: charliepatrick

Nice game especially when this happens!

Quote: VladAlex1

By Alex Dunaevsky.


We haven’t started on the math analysis for this game since we’re focusing on the 3x3 version.

Our approach is to write a script that determines the best moves given specific cards on the table. We’ll test this script in the game by asking for player’s review and perhaps with an option to select a specific dealt set of cards to analyze tricky situations. Once we’re happy with the performance of the auto-play mode, we’ll take the script and run it outside the game in a terminal with no user interface. It should be able to play a billion rounds of the game in about 24 hours. We’ll only run a billion rounds once we see that it’s giving us a good RTP in shorter 5 to 20 min. simulations.

In the trade phase, the script might follow some steps like this:

1) Evaluate the 3 hands before the trade. Rank them form best to worst. Save that result for later to see if it’s better or worse after a potential trade move. Perhaps “No trade” is the best move. When ranking the hands, it might be necessary to apply the classic poker strategy and see which cards make sense to hold. Although there is no “hold” option in this game, that strategy can be used to give better rankings to the 3 hands.

2) Record the hand results of the 75 possible trade moves. Record their rankings using the same classic poker strategy.

3) Compare the possible trade moves with the original 3 hands and find the best move.

When making a swap move, the best move seems to depend on if it’s the last swap, or there are 1 or 2 more swaps to go.

For the last swap of the round, it’s a basic check of all 15 moves to see which one pays out the most.

For the first or second last swap, it would require further ranking of the hands before and after the swap to find the best 3 hands.

It’s a lengthy process to get the final script working, and we haven’t even started on the 5x3 version. It’s amazing how fast the computer can play the game, and even if it takes 3 days to simulate a billion rounds, it’s not a problem to us.

Quote: gordonm888

I have now played another 200 hands (total of 400 hands) of the 3x5 Trade N Place DDB demo game and recorded results.

400 rounds: Return was 37.025 units.

Trade + Place 2 : 286 games: Return = 41.1 units;
Place 3 : 114 games: Return = 26.7 units

Quote: RealizeGaming

Here is a pretty rare hand of two four of a kinds in one game.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: RealizeGaming

Here is a pretty rare hand of two four of a kinds in one game.

More rare than that was the fact that you were LOSING before this hand! Were you intentionally trying to lose?

Quote: GaryJKoehler

Is there any way to turn-off the sound on the app (other than by lowering the computer's sound)?