Facial Recognition - Bob Dancer Article
Quote: bobbartopMake sure you read this week's Bob Dancer article. I can't believe what's up with SG and facial recognition built into their new machines. Brave New World sux.
Especially DarkOz needs to check this out. lol
Quote: bobbartopMake sure you read this week's Bob Dancer article. I can't believe what's up with SG and facial recognition built into their new machines. Brave New World sux.
I like the concept. You can now play tracked without giving up your name.
Quote: rxwineLink?
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/what-i-saw-at-g2e/?mc_cid=8a3f600d7d&mc_eid=ab49827ddd
It's none of my business, rxwine, but you might like reading it every week. I do.
Quote: DRichI like the concept. You can now play tracked without giving up your name.
I guess you and I read it differently.
this is a better link to understanding the tech.
personally doesnt faze me. Just from their description of how it works I figured out how to circumvent it.
And I already have little faith in facial recognition software
Quote: darkoz
personally doesnt faze me. Just from their description of how it works I figured out how to circumvent it.
Atta boy, Dark. I have faith in you.
Quote: darkozhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/slot-manufacturers-to-show-facial-recognition-tech-at-g2e-1860065/amp/
this is a better link to understanding the tech.
personally doesnt faze me. Just from their description of how it works I figured out how to circumvent it.
And I already have little faith in facial recognition software
It's pretty hard to circumvent short of wearing full face cover (which is prohibited in most areas and will for sure get you carded and added in the system that way anyway....)
I have been at casinos before where a security officer comes up and asks my age and then the radio tells them to have me turn around (presumably for a better angle) and then they say I am good and never end up carding me, I have always assumed this is facial recognition. At some tables sitting at weird angles they will also ask you to look up or to the side instead of just checking your ID.
Also, when withdrawing cash at cages I have been asked to give my ID and look at the cameras on the wall (presumably this all gets recorded into whatever database they have).
If for whatever reason you don't register on their system and you refuse a manual carding, they will just ask you to leave, so there is really no getting around it.
Casinos and China are pretty much the cutting edge of facial recognition and behavior tracking (they both like to track every action and behavior to see how behaves good and bad, how much you play, where you go, etc....)
In Casinos (and China) you basically have to assume everything you do outside of the bathroom and hotel room is tracked and put into your profile.
Quote: GandlerIt's pretty hard to circumvent short of wearing full face cover (which is prohibited in most areas and will for sure get you carded and added in the system that way anyway....)
claim religious headscarf, wear glasses, grow a beard (your screwed if you are a woman i guess with this one),reflective infared invisible facepaint...
I am not too worried.
As I have stated elsewhere, last resort but still profitable in some venues is pay people to pu their own offers.
Doing that circumvents all facial recognition tied to players cards.
My ability to profit from other people's cards is not solely tied to an alternative identity
EDIT: I am not talking out my ass. I have already done this. One casino required ID to collect offers. I amassed a decent amount of locals who I employed to go pu their own offers for me. Decent pay for just a few minutes of work per day. Loss of profit due to paying people was made up by volume. It was a huge operation which lasted for nearly 5 years.
there was a major change and things got shut down only to have other opportunities open up at the same location.
This is how AP works
Quote: darkozmy experience is every time a casino cracks down wifh an avenue they wind up opening up another.
I am not too worried.
As I have stated elsewhere, last resort but still profitable in some venues is pay people to pu their own offers.
Doing that circumvents all facial recognition tied to players cards.
My ability to profit from other people's cards is not solely tied to an alternative identity
EDIT: I am not talking out my ass. I have already done this. One casino required ID to collect offers. I amassed a decent amount of locals who I employed to go pu their own offers for me. Decent pay for just a few minutes of work per day. Loss of profit due to paying people was made up by volume. It was a huge operation which lasted for nearly 5 years.
there was a major change and things got shut down only to have other opportunities open up at the same location.
This is how AP works
When you pay people to pull their offers , and these people are routinely handing you more money than what you’re paying them .. why would they continue to do that ? They can simply eliminate you and make more money, you serve no purpose but to reduce their income
Quote: michael99000When you pay people to pull their offers , and these people are routinely handing you more money than what you’re paying them .. why would they continue to do that ? They can simply eliminate you and make more money, you serve no purpose but to reduce their income
I know that is what it appears on the surface but there is more to it than that
Generally they would need bankroll and more knowledge of how to generate offers and in some situations keep the offers from dying immediately.Quote: michael99000When you pay people to pull their offers , and these people are routinely handing you more money than what you’re paying them .. why would they continue to do that ? They can simply eliminate you and make more money, you serve no purpose but to reduce their income
If he's allowing the people to play their own cards, see their own offers and collect their own free play, then yes, there's a chance someone of someone doing that. However, they would still need a bankroll and the initiative to risk it.
I believe darkoz leads us to believe it works for him a lot smoother than it actually does.
Sh*t's always going down in one way or another and casinos don't like losing a large amounts of free play for very long. They don't even like losing small amounts from multiple players who aren't giving back significant play.
Quote: AxelWolfGenerally they would need bankroll and more knowledge of how to generate offers and in some situations keep the offers from dying immediately.
If he's allowing the people to play their own cards, see their own offers and collect their own free play, then yes, there's a chance someone of someone doing that. However, they would still need a bankroll and the initiative to risk it.
I believe darkoz leads us to believe it works for him a lot smoother than it actually does.
Sh*t's always going down in one way or another and casinos don't like losing a large amounts of free play for very long. They don't even like losing small amounts from multiple players who aren't giving back significant play.
if you reread the last paragraph of my post:
"things got shut down but new opportunities arose"
you will see that I was being quite open about smoothness and shit going down.
yes and yes. smooth for a long time, then shit happened and yet new opportunities arose from the ashes
Harrah’s Joliet has been accused of violating Illinois’s Biometric Information Privacy Act by possessing the facial geometry scans and identifying information of its casino customers “without creating and following a written policy, made available to the public.” The lawsuit asks a local judge to award liquidated or actual monetary damages – whichever is higher – to the suit’s co-plaintiffs, as well as members of the class action lawsuit, “for each violation of the Biometric Information Privacy Act.” Their lawsuit contends that Harrah’s:
Failed to inform the plaintiffs and other Caesars Rewards program members in writing that it was collecting their biometric identifiers or information, the purpose and length of term for such collection, and failed to obtain their written consent before defendants' collected their facial geometry scans.
Never established and followed a publicly available written policy establishing a retention schedule and guidelines for permanently destroying scans of plaintiffs’ and other rewards program members’ facial geometry.
According to the lawsuit, a surveillance manager for Harrah’s Joliet “praised facial recognition technology installed at the casino as an effective way to report and catch cheaters” in a company testimonial posted on a website. “As other properties which belong to that network catch somebody, they send a report that goes to all of the other casinos in the network. Within an hour or two of them [sic] catching someone, maybe in Nevada or in Atlantic City, all of the casinos in that network will have that information available to them.” The plaintiffs’ lawyers stated that they seek to represent “all individuals who are members of the Caesars Rewards program who had their facial geometry scans collected or possessed by one or more the defendants in Illinois between October 15, 2014, and the present.” Lawyers for Harrah’s have yet to file any briefs responding to the allegations put forth in the lawsuit. The lawsuit was filed by the same law firm that filed a near-identical lawsuit against Joliet’s Hollywood Casino.
Quote: vegasHarrah's Joliet is getting sued over using facial recognition
Harrah’s Joliet has been accused of violating Illinois’s Biometric Information Privacy Act by possessing the facial geometry scans and identifying information of its casino customers “without creating and following a written policy, made available to the public.” The lawsuit asks a local judge to award liquidated or actual monetary damages – whichever is higher – to the suit’s co-plaintiffs, as well as members of the class action lawsuit, “for each violation of the Biometric Information Privacy Act.” Their lawsuit contends that Harrah’s:
Failed to inform the plaintiffs and other Caesars Rewards program members in writing that it was collecting their biometric identifiers or information, the purpose and length of term for such collection, and failed to obtain their written consent before defendants' collected their facial geometry scans.
Never established and followed a publicly available written policy establishing a retention schedule and guidelines for permanently destroying scans of plaintiffs’ and other rewards program members’ facial geometry.
According to the lawsuit, a surveillance manager for Harrah’s Joliet “praised facial recognition technology installed at the casino as an effective way to report and catch cheaters” in a company testimonial posted on a website. “As other properties which belong to that network catch somebody, they send a report that goes to all of the other casinos in the network. Within an hour or two of them [sic] catching someone, maybe in Nevada or in Atlantic City, all of the casinos in that network will have that information available to them.” The plaintiffs’ lawyers stated that they seek to represent “all individuals who are members of the Caesars Rewards program who had their facial geometry scans collected or possessed by one or more the defendants in Illinois between October 15, 2014, and the present.” Lawyers for Harrah’s have yet to file any briefs responding to the allegations put forth in the lawsuit. The lawsuit was filed by the same law firm that filed a near-identical lawsuit against Joliet’s Hollywood Casino.
I don't know much about Illinois Law, but what was the result for the filing against the other IL casino that you mentioned?
As to SG, I did not know they were working on that. I can't think of any good comments that haven't already been said.
Quote: rxwineIs it illegal for a casino to photograph or scan a fingerprint when your hand hovers above part of a panel?
That is an interesting question. I just did some research on IL out of curiosity, and it appears casinos are not the only companies under fire, pretty much every major tech company is also being sued for similar biometric data gathering without proper warnings.
It appears most biometric protection is state level, and IL seems to have some of the stronger protections.
Is there any chance it is or was happening now in Canada?
“All people entering this casino must provide valid ID and consent to search.”
Erase the word casino and substitute the word ‘bookstore’ or ‘stadium’ or ‘restaurant’.
Quote: SOOPOOIs this legal? (A hypothetical).
“All people entering this casino must provide valid ID and consent to search.”
Erase the word casino and substitute the word ‘bookstore’ or ‘stadium’ or ‘restaurant’.
I am pretty sure in most states any establishment can enact such a policy if clearly posted and not used to discriminate.
Many Stadiums already do a wand and search to all general ticket holders... Same with many amusement parks...
For most stores it would not be worth it. Casinos are unique in that they are large open places that need to quickly remove any minors that may wander through so by necessity they need to have a more proactive policy.
Quote: SOOPOOIs this legal? (A hypothetical).
“All people entering this casino must provide valid ID and consent to search.”
Erase the word casino and substitute the word ‘bookstore’ or ‘stadium’ or ‘restaurant’.
Sounds like every nightclub in Vegas and elsewhere.
But once they allowed you in they can’t ask for ID (except to verify legal age)?
My point is casinos already can figure out who is there, just not worth the inconvenience.
Quote: SOOPOOSo casinos can ask for ID before allowing you to enter? As long as they do not discriminate.
But once they allowed you in they can’t ask for ID (except to verify legal age)?
My point is casinos already can figure out who is there, just not worth the inconvenience.
Not only can they, they often are obligated to.
For W2s for big wins, for chips exchanges exceeding the max per 24hr time period that need to be reported, and of course to verify age or verify you can be there (if you look like a banned player whether self imposed or casino imposed).... And, for player card offers (many require showing photo ID to ensure you are the cardholder)... To verify hotel checkin etc....
And, pretty much any other reason they want as long as it is not to discriminate...
Casinos generally don't ID at the entrance (far too many large entrances), so there are many transactions and encounters that can trigger a carding on the floor. I have seen some casinos (generally smaller, some places in the mid west I think) that have entry control points where everyone is carded before entry, but these are rare in my experience...
You don't have to present them an ID (except for the legally mandated encounters, like tax verification), but they can also remove you for no identifying yourself.
