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clarkacal
clarkacal
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
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October 21st, 2010 at 8:41:02 AM permalink
How common is a full pay deuces wild machine, and what are the reasons a casino offers it? It is my understanding from the info the wizard has given on the strategy for this game the return is between 100.71%-100.77%. Does this mean that for every $100 put in you can expect $100.71-$100.77 return if you play perfect strategy?

I was thinking maybe the casino is counting on humans not being able to play perfect strategy because of errors here and there which reduce the expected return. How difficult is it to play perfect strategy correctly and quickly?

Also, if you find this game in a casino online with the full pay schedule, does this necessarily mean it is full pay or is it just a gimmick and the software reduces the frequency of the deuces or some other alteration?
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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October 21st, 2010 at 8:50:20 AM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

How common is a full pay deuces wild machine, and what are the reasons a casino offers it? It is my understanding from the info the wizard has given on the strategy for this game the return is between 100.71%-100.77%. Does this mean that for every $100 put in you can expect $100.71-$100.77 return if you play perfect strategy?

I was thinking maybe the casino is counting on humans not being able to play perfect strategy because of errors here and there which reduce the expected return. How difficult is it to play perfect strategy correctly and quickly?

Also, if you find this game in a casino online with the full pay schedule, does this necessarily mean it is full pay or is it just a gimmick and the software reduces the frequency of the deuces or some other alteration?



Yes, the reason why a FPDW machine is still profitable is that very few players play the game perfectly, and most don't even play it well enough to avoid losing. I don't think it's that difficult, myself, but it does take about two hours to learn the strategy, and then about fifty hours of casino play to get to that "perfect" plateau (with any reasonable playing speed).

In an online casino, you have no assurance that the game is fair. Very few casinos offer fullpay video poker, and I would be extremely wary of one that did.

Several Vegas casinos, such as the Fiesta (now the Fiesta Rancho) and the Gold Coast were practically BUILT on FPDW. One survey I did many moons ago showed 133 .25 FPDW machines at the Gold Coast. Those extremely successful casinos showed that you could indeed make money offering positive EV games. When Stations absorbed virtually every locals' casino in town. they hastened to destroy all the good VP, because the talking heads that run the company couldn't conceive of how that might be possible (though they had the assimilated companies' balance sheets to prove it). Another minor contributing factor to the demise of good VP was the increased skill level of the players, but even at the locals' level, this effect was small. For every savvy player who knows what a penalty card is, there are ten players who always keep AA5 from AA953 because "fives are lucky for me".
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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October 21st, 2010 at 10:45:46 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Several Vegas casinos, such as the Fiesta (now the Fiesta Rancho) and the Gold Coast were practically BUILT on FPDW. One survey I did many moons ago showed 133 .25 FPDW machines at the Gold Coast. Those extremely successful casinos showed that you could indeed make money offering positive EV games. When Stations absorbed virtually every locals' casino in town. they hastened to destroy all the good VP, because the talking heads that run the company couldn't conceive of how that might be possible (though they had the assimilated companies' balance sheets to prove it). Another minor contributing factor to the demise of good VP was the increased skill level of the players, but even at the locals' level, this effect was small. For every savvy player who knows what a penalty card is, there are ten players who always keep AA5 from AA953 because "fives are lucky for me".

This is all true but I would add that the Gold Coast no longer has any FPDW. The Palms, which is the successor to the Maloof's Fiesta, has it with good cashback benefits. A lot of the Stations still have it as well, but with no cashback. My favorite place to play FPDW is at Sam's Town near the arcade/Dunkin' Donuts because they are rarely crowded, sometimes give good cashback, and I can grab a coffee and a donut while I play. The music at Palms can also get grating, although I am still young enough to enjoy most of it. Only for a little while, though :)
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
Joined: Jun 28, 2010
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October 21st, 2010 at 11:22:40 AM permalink
The Palms has it in progressive royal format. Stations has them all over the place. Obviously none of the machines are losing money or else they wouldn't be there. The reason such games are around is because while they earn less profit per dollar played than other games, by marketing these machines it draws many more players to that particular casino. Similar to how casinos pay Bob Dancer to teach how to beat such games, they know no one is really going to do it unless he or she gets very lucky. I used to play fpdw but got very tired with and bored of it. There was just no great hands to shoot for outside of the deuces, and naturally royals hardly ever show in that game. I prefer a game that has a lot of exciting potential bigger winners.

I've seen the crowd play them at Sams Town. If that's not a group that looks like life's leftovers, I don't know what does.
petro
petro
Joined: Dec 6, 2010
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December 20th, 2010 at 12:34:49 PM permalink
mkl654321: "...they hastened to destroy all the good VP..."

I am from Australia. Here the bars/saloons are 'mini-casinos.'
Each bar has slots and a few have VP.
Some years ago a friend hit an RF worth $2000.
2 weeks later the machine vanished...
The casinos are so used to raking in the profit from slots something fairer scares them imo.

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