Looking to establish a record for fastest video poker player.
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25 members have voted
HPH is very important to me because its how I figure my earn rate along with coin in. Only so many days in the month and hours in the day.
When it's fully finished I just want to know the record. IMO this is like who can eat the most jalapeños in 10 mins and now we multiply that by 6 to get my Hourly Jalapeño Eating Number.
Karma payback for all the times you suspended me.Quote: WizardWhy do I get all the negativity?
After watching and talking to him, I do believe he can do this for more than an hour. Perhaps not 100% mistake free, but close, and perhaps a few less hands.Quote: monet0412It is what it is. You guys make the rules and record the numbers. If it's so difficult why not scale down to 30 secs or 1 minute time limit because I don't see much difference? This would save plenty of time and work. I might even have people record me and submit if I only have to do 30 secs or 1 minute.
HPH is very important to me because its how I figure my earn rate along with coin in. Only so many days in the month and hours in the day.
When it's fully finished I just want to know the record. IMO this is like who can eat the most jalapeños in 10 mins and now we multiply that by 6 to get my Hourly Jalapeño Eating Number.
I don't know if the 2nd video has been analyzed yet but I thought I saw a Q 10 mistake but I was watching both machines and the hand is quicker than the eye, it could have just been 10 H QD I saw.
He even admitted he had an easy set of hands during that 10 min.
Originally, when I thought about someone going for the record, I assumed they would put it on the fastest speed. I was thinking that's going to be way too chaotic casing mistakes galore and possibly tossing out entire hands. I have tried 2 machines on super fast speed and it's a cluster FK. IIRC he actually had the machines slowed down a bit so he could keep the perfect pace. I had not even thought about doing that since It WAS against my religion to have a machine slowed down.
Quote: WizardAm I supposed to record eight hours of play and then analyze every single hand? All I am saying is that at the rate I observed, he can play 2,552 hands per hour. This is a perfectly truthful statement. The work going into just ten minutes of play is already quite a bit.
During the Olympics I heard plenty of statements like, "Yusain Bolt ran at a speed of 30 miles per hour in the 100-meter dash." Nobody, that I knew of, got all hot and bothered with such statements. Nobody ever assumed he could run at that speed for a full hour. Why do I get all the negativity?
Sorry, not trying to be negative. I agree with how you are doing it. My point to monet was that while projecting HPH with 10 mins of play might not be accurate in a real world scenario, there’s no other sane way to judge a contest like this.
Quote: IbeatyouracesQuote: 100xOddsQuote: monet0412Once again this is your thing. Do it the way you want. I only offer my perspective which is some constructive criticism. I want to stress how Denomination matters!! When I used to play FPDW every day and night I would play on 1, 2 or 3 machines depending on the Casino. This was usually at the 25 cent Denomination. At this level you can go as fast as the wind, making an error now and again and it really doesn't matter.
Now when I play Bonus Poker at the 25 Dollar Denom it is completely different. Mistakes matter and hurt beyond belief because of the dollar amount and because the game is 99.2 compared to 100.76 payback. You bet your behind you play slower and more careful. I still play that limit faster than I should but it is a completely different world all together. Also your constantly feeding the machine and cashing tickets out under 3k which takes time as well. The machine also locks up a bit more!
Honestly though depending on the Casino if I made some big error I would have them roll the machine back and pay me. Even at the 25 cent level if I mis clicked and threw a 4oak away I was talking to someone. It rarely happens when I play higher these days but I'll call them over and get it because I'm giving them crazy action.
yeah, I learned the hard way.
not $25 level but $2 level on 9/7 db. I was playing it fast like it was .25.
was dealt TJ3KA with jk suited. held jk. 1st card on redraw was Q.
could have won $50 from the straight. instead I whiffed. :(
In that nanosecond it would've taken you to hold the other two cards, you'd most likely have drawn a completely different card.
thought redraw cards are predetermined?
ie: when you press deal for your hand, you get deck #2,749,021 which has the cards in a certain order.
in my case, the 1st 5 cards were TJ3KA with jk suited.
the 6th card is a Q
Quote: AxelWolfI have tried 2 machines on super fast speed and it's a cluster FK. IIRC he actually had the machines slowed down a bit so he could keep the perfect pace. I had not even thought about doing that since It WAS against my religion to have a machine slowed down.
This is very interesting because 2552 is a big number. Half of that is 1276.
I'm still wondering about his potential single-machine rate at maximum speed. I think a lot of people could achieve 1276 on a game they know well. He'd probably be several hundred higher. If he can play 1700 single-machine, then the additional machine only adds 50% to his rate.
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: 100xOddsQuote: monet0412Once again this is your thing. Do it the way you want. I only offer my perspective which is some constructive criticism. I want to stress how Denomination matters!! When I used to play FPDW every day and night I would play on 1, 2 or 3 machines depending on the Casino. This was usually at the 25 cent Denomination. At this level you can go as fast as the wind, making an error now and again and it really doesn't matter.
Now when I play Bonus Poker at the 25 Dollar Denom it is completely different. Mistakes matter and hurt beyond belief because of the dollar amount and because the game is 99.2 compared to 100.76 payback. You bet your behind you play slower and more careful. I still play that limit faster than I should but it is a completely different world all together. Also your constantly feeding the machine and cashing tickets out under 3k which takes time as well. The machine also locks up a bit more!
Honestly though depending on the Casino if I made some big error I would have them roll the machine back and pay me. Even at the 25 cent level if I mis clicked and threw a 4oak away I was talking to someone. It rarely happens when I play higher these days but I'll call them over and get it because I'm giving them crazy action.
yeah, I learned the hard way.
not $25 level but $2 level on 9/7 db. I was playing it fast like it was .25.
was dealt TJ3KA with jk suited. held jk. 1st card on redraw was Q.
could have won $50 from the straight. instead I whiffed. :(
In that nanosecond it would've taken you to hold the other two cards, you'd most likely have drawn a completely different card.
thought redraw cards are predetermined?
ie: when you press deal for your hand, you get deck #2,749,021 which has the cards in a certain order.
in my case, the 1st 5 cards were TJ3KA with jk suited.
the 6th card is a Q
Nope. The rest of the 47 (48 or more of jokers are involved or if playing Peek and Play or Look Ahead poker) are still shuffling.
Quote: MaxPenOne more question. Does this guy resemble an octopus in any way? That is freakishly fast.
He is very young and tall with long arms. If he told people he was in the NBA, nobody would doubt it. He kindly let me interview in the video him so you'll see him soon enough.
Speaking of the video, I have gone through the play on the right-side machine and again found not a single error.
I'm in the process of uploading a preliminary video to YouTube (which takes a while). Once it is up, I would appreciate any help going through to see if there are any errors I may have missed. My video poker hand analyzer should be of great help as well as my optimal strategy for full pay deuces wild.
I'm not being negative but playing devils advocate... Yusain Bolt is expected to run for 100 meters only. VP players don't play 10 minutes of VP, rarely ever (especially serious ones). At the highest of levels these guy go bang it out for hours per session. Keeping this pace sounds insane... but if he indeed made ZERO mistakes on BOTH machines, I believe he could definitely keep the pace for at least an hour or two. Past that, who knows.Quote: Wizard...Why do I get all the negativity?
Quote: RomesI'm not being negative but playing devils advocate... Yusain Bolt is expected to run for 100 meters only. VP players don't play 10 minutes of VP, rarely ever (especially serious ones). At the highest of levels these guy go bang it out for hours per session. Keeping this pace sounds insane... but if he indeed made ZERO mistakes on BOTH machines, I believe he could definitely keep the pace for at least an hour or two. Past that, who knows.
What am I supposed to do then? This was a lot of work for just ten minutes of play. If you're suggesting I make a video of him playing for eight hours -- forget it. I also never claimed he could maintain this same speed for hours. When they announce a pitcher in baseball can throw a 105 MPH fast ball, does anyone say, "I bet he couldn't throw a ball 105 miles and in an hour"? I am just saying he can play at a rate of 2,550 HPH for ten minutes and will present video to prove it.
I am all for being a skeptic, but sometimes it can be taken to a ridiculous extreme.
Quote: RomesI'm not being negative but playing devils advocate... Yusain Bolt is expected to run for 100 meters only. VP players don't play 10 minutes of VP, rarely ever (especially serious ones). At the highest of levels these guy go bang it out for hours per session. Keeping this pace sounds insane... but if he indeed made ZERO mistakes on BOTH machines, I believe he could definitely keep the pace for at least an hour or two. Past that, who knows.
given the effort required to check each hand, I think 10min is reasonable.
and yes, serious players usually play far longer than 10min but extrapolating the 10min play into an hr would be a good estimate of short term speed.
how about we call this fastest VP in 10min?
don't know what can be done for measurement of continuous long term speed, if any?
ie: 5000 hands (at $2 denomination) for DiaD in one sitting with quick bathroom breaks. (it helped that I was sitting right next to the bathroom entrance.)
I've done that in 8hrs altho probably not perfectly.
avg= 5000/8 = ~600 hands/hr
The reason I put this up is to hopefully get volunteers to double check the play. Maybe one person for the left side hands and another for the right. Those who have been badgering me about 10 minutes being too short are especially invited to pitch in a helping hand.
Thank you.
Quote: gamerfreakDid Ken try out a few machines before determining which to play? A sticky button would put a damper on things real quick.
No. I think he said there were only two banks of full pay deuces in the Santa Fe. The first bank we looked at, near the poker room, was satisfactory, so we went with those. He had to get an attendant to put them on fast play mode.
The video is spectacular. I love how he bangs away at the deal/draw button between hands to instantly rack up credits.
I'm 10 minutes in, and not liking my chances of finding any errors in the second half. The first half looked perfectly clean. Hand #right 219 (10:10) was a tough one for me:
Ks 9s Qc 5c Jc
I would have held QJ, but he correctly chose K9QJ instead.
Interesting hand at 19:33 -
Kh 7s 9c 6s Ts
76T is correct, but 796T is also correct. Same EV for both.
Quote: HugoSlaviaThe first half looked perfectly clean. Hand #right 219 (10:10) was a tough one for me:
Ks 9s Qc 5c Jc
I would have held QJ, but he correctly chose K9QJ instead.
Yes, that was a tricky one. The 5 is a penalty card to holding QJ, making the inside straight the marginally better play. I remember confirming that one with my hand analyzer.
Quote: HugoSlavia2nd half of video (left machine) also mistake-free.
Interesting hand at 19:33 -
Kh 7s 9c 6s Ts
76T is correct, but 796T is also correct. Same EV for both.
Thanks for confirming that!
Somewhere I have an "ask the wizard" question asking if there is any situation in video poker where the EVs are the same but the variance is not. That hand was my answer. I think that situation also occurs on the right side machine once too.
Quote: HugoSlaviaThe first half looked perfectly clean.
Thank you for checking it.
Check again without the 5 being the same suit to the QJ, it may not even revert to holding the QJ.Quote: WizardYes, that was a tricky one. The 5 is a penalty card to holding QJ, making the inside straight the marginally better play. I remember confirming that one with my hand analyzer.
I did notice he looked for penalty cards when he had K and another ss RF card and he made the right play each time.
The most time-consuming hands for me have always been when there is nothing at all to hold.
This seems to be true for him as well, his longer pauses seemed to be when he had nothing to hold.
Quote: AxelWolfCheck again without the 5 being the same suit to the QJ, it may not even revert to holding the QJ.
Good point, although in that instance, the QJ hold becomes only a tiny mistake.
My strategy knowledge includes some but not all of the penalty situations. There's a chance I missed a mistake in the video, but I did check several borderline hands to be sure.
Ken is a beast.
Quote: HugoSlavia2nd half of video (left machine) also mistake-free.
Interesting hand at 19:33 -
Kh 7s 9c 6s Ts
76T is correct, but 796T is also correct. Same EV for both.
We can get technical and say the 76Ts is better as you're spending less time, even if it's just a nanosecond, pushing buttons. Therefore, you'll actually get more hands lifetime.
We can get technical and say it might depend on the position of the cards and your fingers. It may be harder to pick out and hold 3 STF cards than it would to just push hold on all 4 cards at once. Also, whenever you are playing the $100 FPDW the STF locks up (-;.Quote: IbeatyouracesWe can get technical and say the 76Ts is better as you're spending less time, even if it's just a nanosecond, pushing buttons. Therefore, you'll actually get more hands lifetime.
Variance might play a part of your decision.
Consider changing the challenge to "Fastest time to complete 500 hands with no errors". That way, as soon as a mistake is detected, the attempt is over, and the analysis can stop. This makes it more like a 110m hurdle race rather than the land speed record.
NHRA drag racing only measures speed in the last 66 feet of a quarter mile, so I don't think anyone would scoff at using a shorter, fixed interval as a fair representation of a longer performance. It makes it convenient to compare performances.
Quote: IbeatyouracesQuote: 100xOddsQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: 100xOddsyeah, I learned the hard way.
not $25 level but $2 level on 9/7 db. I was playing it fast like it was .25.
was dealt TJ3KA with jk suited. held jk. 1st card on redraw was Q.
could have won $50 from the straight. instead I whiffed. :(
In that nanosecond it would've taken you to hold the other two cards, you'd most likely have drawn a completely different card.
thought redraw cards are predetermined?
ie: when you press deal for your hand, you get deck #2,749,021 which has the cards in a certain order.
in my case, the 1st 5 cards were TJ3KA with jk suited.
the 6th card is a Q
Nope. The rest of the 47 (48 or more of jokers are involved or if playing Peek and Play or Look Ahead poker) are still shuffling.
hm.. I guess it makes sense that the draw is random.
if the machine knew what the re-draw cards were like in my assumption, then theres a chance it could be exploited.
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: 100xOdds
thought redraw cards are predetermined?
ie: when you press deal for your hand, you get deck #2,749,021 which has the cards in a certain order.
in my case, the 1st 5 cards were TJ3KA with jk suited.
the 6th card is a Q
Nope. The rest of the 47 (48 or more of jokers are involved or if playing Peek and Play or Look Ahead poker) are still shuffling.
hm.. I guess it makes sense that the draw is random.
if the machine knew what the re-draw cards were like in my assumption, then theres a chance it could be exploited.
I thought there were a variety of machines, some even programmed to select specific replacements at the initial draw (in other words, not only are the five draw cards selected, they are placed "behind" specific positions, so it doesn't matter how long or short a time you take to draw.)
Or did I pick the wrong time to quit sniffing glue?
Quote: AyecarumbaQuote: 100xOddsQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: 100xOdds
thought redraw cards are predetermined?
ie: when you press deal for your hand, you get deck #2,749,021 which has the cards in a certain order.
in my case, the 1st 5 cards were TJ3KA with jk suited.
the 6th card is a Q
Nope. The rest of the 47 (48 or more of jokers are involved or if playing Peek and Play or Look Ahead poker) are still shuffling.
hm.. I guess it makes sense that the draw is random.
if the machine knew what the re-draw cards were like in my assumption, then theres a chance it could be exploited.
I thought there were a variety of machines, some even programmed to select specific replacements at the initial draw (in other words, not only are the five draw cards selected, they are placed "behind" specific positions, so it doesn't matter how long or short a time you take to draw.)
Or did I pick the wrong time to quit sniffing glue?
yeah, I thought so too but deferred to Ibeatyouraces because he knows more about vp than me and seems sure about his answer.
oh.. and its never a wrong time to quit sniffing glue. :)
Quote: AyecarumbaQuote: 100xOddsQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: 100xOdds
thought redraw cards are predetermined?
ie: when you press deal for your hand, you get deck #2,749,021 which has the cards in a certain order.
in my case, the 1st 5 cards were TJ3KA with jk suited.
the 6th card is a Q
Nope. The rest of the 47 (48 or more of jokers are involved or if playing Peek and Play or Look Ahead poker) are still shuffling.
hm.. I guess it makes sense that the draw is random.
if the machine knew what the re-draw cards were like in my assumption, then theres a chance it could be exploited.
I thought there were a variety of machines, some even programmed to select specific replacements at the initial draw (in other words, not only are the five draw cards selected, they are placed "behind" specific positions, so it doesn't matter how long or short a time you take to draw.)
Or did I pick the wrong time to quit sniffing glue?
I believe older machines did this. The programmers here can explain why the remaining deck continues to be shuffled on newer machines.
Quote: WizardI am all for being a skeptic, but sometimes it can be taken to a ridiculous extreme.
Did you drug test Ken?
After seeing the video, I think some performance enhancers may have been involved.
Quote: gamerfreakDid you drug test Ken?
After seeing the video, I think some performance enhancers may have been involved.
It's just sped up by 5x 😉
Hands played = 437
Time played: 10 minutes, 13 seconds
Hands per hour = 2,564
Expected units won per hour = 19.54
Expected money won per hour at quarter machine = $24.42
Much better than minimum wage.
Quote: WizardHere is a little math. The exact HPH depends on exactly when we start and stop the clock. I had to use my best judgment on that.
Hands played = 437
Time played: 10 minutes, 13 seconds
Hands per hour = 2,564
Expected units won per hour = 19.54
Expected money won per hour at quarter machine = $24.42
Much better than minimum wage.
Minimum wage has zero variance though. 😉
Quote: IbeatyouracesMinimum wage has zero variance though. 😉
Not only that but at that establishment you can't get away with that for long. You certainly can't put your players card in doing that. You can't maintain that pace forever so the hourly is inflated. 17 dollars an hour is more realistic but I could see 20 dollars but you'd have to be dedicated. I myself have done things like that for months on end... 10 hrs a day 20-25 days a month but it catches up with you. So you have to find better ways. It is such an unrealistic number, it borders on misinformation. Don't forget no insurance or sick leave or holiday pay or retirement. You won't even get mail or comps or cash back no invites... etc etc.
I've done this style of play on new machines and older coin machines. I used to laugh at the Octo Guy at the Palms doing it and later down the road I started to do it after observing the King of Sam's Town doing it before all Casinos cut the card or cut the game or took the games out.
Is it possible to do this day in and day out yes but so many better options these days. 8 dollars an hour per machine is a more realistic hourly on FPDW quarters.
You could make a case about tax free but every player I know never gets taxed at the end of the year.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces
I believe older machines did this. The programmers here can explain why the remaining deck continues to be shuffled on newer machines.
I have no inside knowledge but drawing cards from a continuously shuffled deck is harder to exploit if there is a vulnerability. There have been exploits in the past which rely on leaked or insufficient randomness when seeding the random number generator. If you can figure out the RNG seed you can know the draw cards which could make the game positive. With the continuous shuffle there is a timing element introduced so you could not know the draw cards unless you knew which shuffle was the last one when you clicked the draw button. The shuffles happen so rapidly that would be impossible.
Quote: AyecarumbaQuote: 100xOddsQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: 100xOdds
thought redraw cards are predetermined?
ie: when you press deal for your hand, you get deck #2,749,021 which has the cards in a certain order.
in my case, the 1st 5 cards were TJ3KA with jk suited.
the 6th card is a Q
Nope. The rest of the 47 (48 or more of jokers are involved or if playing Peek and Play or Look Ahead poker) are still shuffling.
hm.. I guess it makes sense that the draw is random.
if the machine knew what the re-draw cards were like in my assumption, then theres a chance it could be exploited.
I thought there were a variety of machines, some even programmed to select specific replacements at the initial draw (in other words, not only are the five draw cards selected, they are placed "behind" specific positions, so it doesn't matter how long or short a time you take to draw.)
Or did I pick the wrong time to quit sniffing glue?
They used to be that way in the early days, but not anymore. And in the last few years, that method has been illegal in Nevada. There is now a regulation that all VP must be continuously shuffled.
Quote: WizardHere is a little math. The exact HPH depends on exactly when we start and stop the clock. I had to use my best judgment on that.
Hands played = 437
Time played: 10 minutes, 13 seconds
Hands per hour = 2,564
Expected units won per hour = 19.54
Expected money won per hour at quarter machine = $24.42
Much better than minimum wage.
I would summarize this as such..... The "World Record", as verified by the Wizard of Vegas for hands per hour with no errors using two machines at FPDW? is 2564. This is over a 10 minute period.
I am still awaiting a contestant to establish a record on one machine. I think you should offer Ken the option of setting this standard as well.
If another forum member wants to try and beat the mark or marks, are you going to film and watch? Please protect yourself from wasting time (a la DJATC eating 20 or so MvNuggets on the 100 McNugget challenge!)
Quote: SOOPOOI would summarize this as such..... The "World Record", as verified by the Wizard of Vegas for hands per hour with no errors using two machines at FPDW? is 2564. This is over a 10 minute period.
I don't want to put in the "no errors" part. If he made a tiny error on a very marginal play, it shouldn't negate the whole thing. I may state something like "using any number of machines." I may also replace "hands" with "decisions," to avoid people they can break the record on a 100-play machine. Also, no need to bring up FPDW. I don't want to have a separate record for every game and pay table. So, what do you think of:
"The 'World Record', as verified by the Wizard of Odds, for decisions made per hour is 25xx. This was done on two adjacent machines playing deuces wild over a 10-minute period. Although an accuracy penalty is applied for errors by the record keeper, none were made."
Quote:I am still awaiting a contestant to establish a record on one machine. I think you should offer Ken the option of setting this standard as well.
Yes, I plan to do that. I think I will wait a month or two before doing that. In the meantime, if anyone on the forum can get to about 2,000 HPH on one machine, let me know. I think the speed on one machine is not that much less than two.
Quote: WizardIn the meantime, if anyone on the forum can get to about 2,000 HPH on one machine, let me know. I think the speed on one machine is not that much less than two.
This has to be a joke. Even on turbo this would be some feat on single line VP one machine only. I will wager up to 10k on the under for 1800 HPH with some stipulation. Let's say you find a single line machine that is set to what I call lightning speed at best your looking at 12-1400 HPH. I mean 1800 HPH is a hand every 2 seconds.
Quote: monet0412I will wager up to 10k on the under for 1800 HPH with some stipulation. Let's say you find a single line machine that is set to what I call lightning speed at best your looking at 12-1400 HPH. I mean 1800 HPH is a hand every 2 seconds.
I think you're low. Ken did 1275 per machine, and they were slowed down, and obviously his attention was divided. 2 seconds per hand is probably sufficient for an expert player to act, so under perfect conditions, the 1800 barrier should be vulnerable.
Quote: HugoSlaviaI think you're low. Ken did 1275 per machine, and they were slowed down, and obviously his attention was divided. 2 seconds per hand is probably sufficient for an expert player to act, so under perfect conditions, the 1800 barrier should be vulnerable.
This thread broke my back along with the last two comments. I request to be banned from the site and that all my posts/threads be nuked and I thank everyone for the time we had together discussing topics in this forum.
Quote: monet0412This thread broke my back along with the last two comments. I request to be banned from the site and that all my posts/threads be nuked and I thank everyone for the time we had together discussing topics in this forum.
I'm sorry to see you go. You were a good member. We can't do anything about the old posts. I'm going to put this down as an "indefinite suspension." You are welcome back anytime after you serve the 30-minimum period for self suspensions.
Quote: HugoSlaviaGood video, thanks! I watched it while reading a science book and smoking a pipe. :)
:-)
Quote: JohnzimboNicely done by all! Did anyone ask Ken if he is, or considers himself, ambidextrous? I know I couldn't operate either of my hands as quickly as he does, especially my left.
No, I should have thought to ask. If I see him again, I will.
