MultiDraw Demo - Looking for VP feedback

Hey everyone.

We are in the process of working on demos for a few video poker games so I wanted to share the first one with you and get some feedback (both positive and negative) about MultiDraw. We are still working on the demo, so we know it still is a work in progress, but please check it out.

http://www.realizegamingllc.com/dev/mdPoker/




Some questions to consider:

1. I understand most players don't like messing with the base pay scale, but there is some flexibility there to adjust the game in order to provide the MD card more frequently and with a more varied award (+5, x5, +4, x4, +3, x3 etc.)

Do players prefer to see a more volatile MD card that shows up less often with higher awards, or do they prefer to see the MD card show up more frequently with less awards?

2. Would players need or want to see the MD card on every single deal regardless if the card is providing an award to the player?

We talked about showing the card for every draw to entice the player, but it wouldn't show up in every hand or sometimes it wouldn't have an award attached to it. It could kind of "fly" by the card position or hand and off the bottom of the page or something like that.

3. Would players be interested in the game if we removed the multipliers altogether?

We are still working on the math, but one option we discussed could be to just use the additional cards as the award (+5, +4, +3, etc.). Would this option still be appealing to players?

Anything else that you like or dislike?

Thanks for your feedback.
Realize Gaming, LLC

I don't see how this is an improvement upon conventional multi-play video poker. The concept in general doesn't seem natural to video poker. Sorry, but I wouldn't put a down payment on that yacht just yet.

I really like it. There's a double adrenaline bump, on the draw, and again on the receipt of a multi card. If this were in a casino, I would definitely play it.

There's no way you can offer anything close to the paytable you have unless you charge a hefty premium for the multicard. The game is solidly +EV atm, even with the reduced top awards.

There's a glitch in the draw routine that allows a discard to be placed back in the hand.

I think the MD card frequency is fine, maybe even a bit often, but the final math will dictate how often it can show up. Ditto for the multipliers. I was winning crazy amounts for simple hands, like a simple dealt JOB that did not improve, with a +5x3 card I still won 1500 on 100.

My opinion is get the casinos to adopt this paytable and I love it.

Since that won't happen, my opinion is between that of Wizard and BBB:

I don't really care about the multi-card aspect very much at all, but the multipliers are cool. The multi-card aspect is a non-mover because you'd have to have a pretty good hand to begin with for it to matter very much. (Again, I'm assuming a sub-100% paytable)

Okay, so I get an, "Extra," flush, two pair, JoB, Trips...blah. Don't care.

The only time the multi-card draw is really going to entice me is when I'm drawing to something really good, like Quads, four-SF or four-Royal...now I want to see extra cards!

If I would change anything about the game, I would make it so that only certain drawing hands will even see the multi-card, but that it is automatic for those hands, and that any hand can receive a random multiplier.

I don't know if you would do it based on pre-draw holds, or maybe the game can determine what the player ended up with before dealing out the last card to decide if it should be an automatic multi-card. I would multi-card 2P (go for FH) all Four-Flushes, Trips (going for Quads)....that would also cover SF's and Royals under those parameters. If none of those situations are the case after four cards, then the last card is a single card.

When you do the math, unless you want to require a higher bet, you're going to find that this cannot come up very much at all. That being the case, I would save it for when it matters somewhat.

Several times I discarded 2 or 3 cards, got the same exact cards in the same positions ??? How you expect a honest appraisal under those conditions ? Combined with a pay table that ensures a winning experience. Talk about a rush to market. Time to fix or start all over. Not what you wanted to hear. No Dad wants to hear his baby is UGLY HaHa

Here is an idea and I reserve all rights to it.

Something like what you're doing but give the extra draws on only certain types of hands. I'm thinking four to a royal certainly but maybe also three to a royal and three of a kind. Player has to bet an extra coin or two per hand to enable the feature. It is possible this idea is already out there, which may be why it so easily springs to mind.

Wizard, I understand what you are saying as I wouldn't consider it an improvement to multi-play poker, just a different variation.

We have talked about using the MD card when certain hands were obtained, but overall didn't like it as much as having it appear randomly in the hand at anytime. We also discussed having the features appear in every single hand with a higher wager required to have the opportunity, but we felt that it would be too much.

Ideally, I think we could go with the game as a three or five play game and have the card appear much less. Having so many hands may "distract" the player into thinking it appears more often than it does and I like the possibility of the MD card appearing in more than one hand.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I really like it. There's a double adrenaline bump, on the draw, and again on the receipt of a multi card. If this were in a casino, I would definitely play it.

There's no way you can offer anything close to the paytable you have unless you charge a hefty premium for the multicard. The game is solidly +EV atm, even with the reduced top awards.

There's a glitch in the draw routine that allows a discard to be placed back in the hand.

I think the MD card frequency is fine, maybe even a bit often, but the final math will dictate how often it can show up. Ditto for the multipliers. I was winning crazy amounts for simple hands, like a simple dealt JOB that did not improve, with a +5x3 card I still won 1500 on 100.

Thanks beachbumbabs. Our next focus is to get the math at the correct point to find the balance between having a fun game for the player and an acceptable and fair hold for the operators.

Yes, we are aware of the glitch. Once the card is discarded from the hand, it cannot return for that hand. Thanks for pointing this out as it is very easy to miss when we are focusing on so many other things.

I tend to agree with the appearance of the MD card being a bit much right now. Our goal is to show how the MD feature works so the VP crowd can get a feel for it before we adjust it to fit in with the correct math.

Really appreciate you sharing your thoughts!

Quote: Mission146

My opinion is get the casinos to adopt this paytable and I love it.

If I could do that the players would love me and the casinos would hate me. I played for 45 minutes the other night and ending up 40k ahead!

Quote: Mission146

Since that won't happen, my opinion is between that of Wizard and BBB:

I don't really care about the multi-card aspect very much at all, but the multipliers are cool. The multi-card aspect is a non-mover because you'd have to have a pretty good hand to begin with for it to matter very much. (Again, I'm assuming a sub-100% paytable)

Okay, so I get an, "Extra," flush, two pair, JoB, Trips...blah. Don't care.

The only time the multi-card draw is really going to entice me is when I'm drawing to something really good, like Quads, four-SF or four-Royal...now I want to see extra cards!

I kind of like having a chance at winning some of the smaller hands. I think having the possibility of getting a multiplier also helps out quite a bit on the lower hands. It is similar to the slot players who don't mind playing 300 pennies and winning 40 cents. As long as they are winning something to gain some of their money back, they can live with that outcome.

Quote: Mission146

If I would change anything about the game, I would make it so that only certain drawing hands will even see the multi-card, but that it is automatic for those hands, and that any hand can receive a random multiplier.

I don't know if you would do it based on pre-draw holds, or maybe the game can determine what the player ended up with before dealing out the last card to decide if it should be an automatic multi-card. I would multi-card 2P (go for FH) all Four-Flushes, Trips (going for Quads)....that would also cover SF's and Royals under those parameters. If none of those situations are the case after four cards, then the last card is a single card.

When you do the math, unless you want to require a higher bet, you're going to find that this cannot come up very much at all. That being the case, I would save it for when it matters somewhat.

I totally get your thinking on using the MD for only certain hands. With your parameters you mentioned above, I would also include straights where they are one card away from it. When you start considering all the hands, we felt it would be better to use the MD randomly on the draw because we wanted it to affect all the hands.

Double Double Bonus which takes advantage of a kicker for some of the bigger hands would also be an interesting use for the MD card. Imagine getting dealt four aces and the open card position reveals a MD card.....several chances to pick up the low kicker on more than one hand!

I'd be interested to find out how much VP players would be willing to bet for the MD card possibility. I think the highest game doubles the initial bet, but would players be okay with betting 3x or 4x as much?

Thanks for your response Mission

Quote: sixsisters

Several times I discarded 2 or 3 cards, got the same exact cards in the same positions ??? How you expect a honest appraisal under those conditions ? Combined with a pay table that ensures a winning experience. Talk about a rush to market. Time to fix or start all over. Not what you wanted to hear. No Dad wants to hear his baby is UGLY HaHa

I apologize for that glitch and we will fix it right away. It is a very early build and we wanted to reach out to the great people in these forums, especially the VP community since they (we) are a different breed. It is not close to being ready for market and we won't rush it to get it done. We want everything to be right with the game before we try to get it to the market.

Regardless, I do appreciate your views sixsisters and keep checking back in. We will have a final product sometime soon.

Quote: Wizard

Here is an idea and I reserve all rights to it.

Something like what you're doing but give the extra draws on only certain types of hands. I'm thinking four to a royal certainly but maybe also three to a royal and three of a kind. Player has to bet an extra coin or two per hand to enable the feature. It is possible this idea is already out there, which may be why it so easily springs to mind.

Sadly for you reserving the rights, Mission said essentially the same thing two posts up. My post before that suggested extra coin in to pay for the multicard and multipliers. Maybe that's why it came so easily.

Great minds and all that....lol.

The glitch with the discard showing up in the stack has been corrected now. Please let me know if you see anything else.

Quote: Wizard

Here is an idea and I reserve all rights to it.

Something like what you're doing but give the extra draws on only certain types of hands. I'm thinking four to a royal certainly but maybe also three to a royal and three of a kind. Player has to bet an extra coin or two per hand to enable the feature. It is possible this idea is already out there, which may be why it so easily springs to mind.

I beat you to that post, and I reserve the rights...lol ;)

Quote: RealizeGaming

I kind of like having a chance at winning some of the smaller hands. I think having the possibility of getting a multiplier also helps out quite a bit on the lower hands. It is similar to the slot players who don't mind playing 300 pennies and winning 40 cents. As long as they are winning something to gain some of their money back, they can live with that outcome.

That's true.

Quote:

I totally get your thinking on using the MD for only certain hands. With your parameters you mentioned above, I would also include straights where they are one card away from it. When you start considering all the hands, we felt it would be better to use the MD randomly on the draw because we wanted it to affect all the hands.

Straight draws are probably fine. I just feel like it comes up too often randomly and doesn't really add a ton of value, at least, not considering how much less frequently it's going to have to come up, anyway, if you want to not require an additional bet.

Quote:

Double Double Bonus which takes advantage of a kicker for some of the bigger hands would also be an interesting use for the MD card. Imagine getting dealt four aces and the open card position reveals a MD card.....several chances to pick up the low kicker on more than one hand!

I'd be interested to find out how much VP players would be willing to bet for the MD card possibility. I think the highest game doubles the initial bet, but would players be okay with betting 3x or 4x as much?

Thanks for your response Mission

Deuces Wild, all kinds of good games for something like this to come into play. It'll definitely change the strategy, too. I'll demo it some more on your site when you come up with a viable paytable/probability/frequency.

I wouldn't want to bet 3x-4x and see a hand such as JoB without the multi-card. That would get annoying in a serious hurry. I think 2x is pretty much the standard because you at least get half of your money back on hands such as that. If you don't want to only make the extra draw for certain hands, then I would focus on maybe doubling the required bet amount and reducing the frequency of the multi-draw.

Don't forget that this game would also be competing indirectly with something like Six-Card poker, a game in which you get the sixth card all of the time.

Here's a couple screens of some of the ideas discussed by my team and some members of the forum. The first two screens show the player needing to bet twice the amount in order to receive the MD card. I'm not a big fan of this option especially if the opening deal has already been displayed. I do like the double wager amount and that will probably be our base going forward.





Here's another option which allows the player to choose how many draws they would like. This is another intriguing option, but players will only want to use this when the cards are in their favor. Secondly, the pay scale for each additional card dealt into the hand as a result of the MD card would have to adjust the pay scale each time. It reminds me of a game that was on the old Bally GameMakers a number of years ago called Second Chance Poker or something like that. Basically, after the ending hand, the player had options to buy another chance (card) to improve their hand. Each time they did this the pay scale adjusted accordingly based on the number of cards left in the deck and how the hand could be improved.

We have finally finished the math for MultiDraw Jacks or Better. We were able to use 9-6 pay scale and the return on the game is 96.38% based on 1 billion simulation rounds using the simple 16 rule strategy located here at the wizardofvegas website. For each open card position, the MD card has an opportunity to appear 1 out of 9 times.

For more information on the pay scale and probabilities for each hand, click on the information button from the game screen.

Play the updated 9-6 demo by following this link:
http://realizegamingllc.com/dev/mdPoker96RTP/



Please let me know if you have any feedback on the game. A few things we are thinking about:

1. Is the frequency of the appearance of the MD card acceptable? Not too much, not too little.

2. Is the breakdown for the bonus games acceptable?



3. Would players be okay paying double amount for each game?

4. Would you like to see additional games using the MD card? I've always viewed Jacks or Better as being safe and feel like the game may shine even better when using Deuces wild or Double Double Bonus Poker.

Get a lucky round
win$1800
https://photos.app.goo.gl/0BFsm0Im5ONKkT3s1

Played this game for about 100 rounds
http://realizegamingllc.com/dev/mdPoker96RTP/

When you think about games like this, there is STP which seems to occur every 25th hand or so where you bet one extra coin per hand to get the multiplier, and the average multiplier x the frequency would be close to one to make is sort of equal to VP with a multiplier average of 1.2 per hand to get the variance right.

Similarly in your game, the multiplier is exactly like STP but it is doubled/tripled/etc based on the number of extra cards you get.
So essentially you have to reduce the frequency and increase the bet amount to get there.
The most you could ever increase the bet is to a double amount like UTP or other games you find on VP.com that give you bonus cards, extra payouts etc.
Then you adjust your multipliers to match. So for example if you put in 2 units every hand, you would get multipliers and extra cards that balance out to the double bet.

I would have the multiplier card appear once every 11 hands with a total multiplier average / extra card average of x 11, in combinations of 2 - 5x.

2x2 = 4
2x3 = 6 (2)
2x4 = 8 (2)
2x5 = 10 (2)
3x3 = 9
3x4 = 12 (2)
3x5 = 15 (2)
4x4 = 16 (1)
4x5 = 20 (2)
5x5 = 25
=176 / 16 = 11.

I would not touch the pay tables except to make it stingy.

RealizeGaming,

1.) Unfortunately, I don't believe that paytable would be approved by Gaming because it has a lower return to player (greater house edge) than does 9/6 Jacks Straight up.

A paytable that would give you more wiggle room would be 9/5 Jacks, then you might be able to adjust it on the multiplier end. Alternatively, I suppose you could always incorporate some sort of Royal Flush bonus to make up the difference.

2.) I figured there would have to be some mechanism like 50 + 50 bet, though, looks like that happened.

3.) I would still recommend only giving it a random chance of coming up on certain holds, or even making it guaranteed, but this is at least the beginning of a viable game.

I like the game, though I wish the multipliers were a touch bigger. Nothing like getting a 10x or 12x on ultimate and hitting a decent hand =P.

Quote: boymimbo

I would have the multiplier card appear once every 11 hands with a total multiplier average / extra card average of x 11, in combinations of 2 - 5x.

2x2 = 4
2x3 = 6 (2)
2x4 = 8 (2)
2x5 = 10 (2)
3x3 = 9
3x4 = 12 (2)
3x5 = 15 (2)
4x4 = 16 (1)
4x5 = 20 (2)
5x5 = 25
=176 / 16 = 11.

I would not touch the pay tables except to make it stingy.

I'd be interested to find out how to make this work. I really like the idea of higher risk - higher reward which is what I think you are referring to.

Quote: Mission146

RealizeGaming,

1.) Unfortunately, I don't believe that paytable would be approved by Gaming because it has a lower return to player (greater house edge) than does 9/6 Jacks Straight up.
A paytable that would give you more wiggle room would be 9/5 Jacks, then you might be able to adjust it on the multiplier end. Alternatively, I suppose you could always incorporate some sort of Royal Flush bonus to make up the difference.

I'm sure we have some room to play with the RTP. We also did an 8-5 Jacks or Better, but I don't remember the RTP right off the top of my head.

Quote: Mission146

2.) I figured there would have to be some mechanism like 50 + 50 bet, though, looks like that happened.

I always believed we would have to do a "double wager" format in order to get the math anywhere close to being acceptable. A number of years ago I talked to a few gaming companies and they kind of laughed at me for suggesting that players would be willing to wager more than the standard 5 coin max. Maybe it might be time for a "triple wager" to make it a very interesting game.

Quote: Mission146

3.) I would still recommend only giving it a random chance of coming up on certain holds, or even making it guaranteed, but this is at least the beginning of a viable game.

That may be something to look into and I appreciate the suggestion. Thank you for all your feedback Mission!

Quote: Mission146

RealizeGaming,

1.) Unfortunately, I don't believe that paytable would be approved by Gaming because it has a lower return to player (greater house edge) than does 9/6 Jacks Straight up.

A paytable that would give you more wiggle room would be 9/5 Jacks, then you might be able to adjust it on the multiplier end. Alternatively, I suppose you could always incorporate some sort of Royal Flush bonus to make up the difference.

2.) I figured there would have to be some mechanism like 50 + 50 bet, though, looks like that happened.

3.) I would still recommend only giving it a random chance of coming up on certain holds, or even making it guaranteed, but this is at least the beginning of a viable game.

Higher multipliers, as Romes said below your post , would be a good and exciting way to get the HE back up where it needs to be. Imo, the best way. When RG posted the 96.x%, it changed my mind about wanting to play the game.

So, yeah, let's see it get viable.

Quote: Romes

I like the game, though I wish the multipliers were a touch bigger. Nothing like getting a 10x or 12x on ultimate and hitting a decent hand =P.

Exactly my thoughts Romes. I think if we could offer higher multipliers, players may be more willing to forgive the MD card not coming up as often. To show the game, we wanted to showcase the MD card so we opted to have it appear more often trying to make a safer game.

I think we may have to explore a Double Double Bonus Poker or Deuces Wild. Jacks or Better can be such a slow (somewhat boring) game.

I would also like to see the game played in the multi-hand format (three or five hands). When using this type of format, you could also limit the MD card and offer higher rewards. It would also be exciting to have more than one hand draw an MD card.

We did pitch the idea of incorporating the MD game with Ultimate X and they liked the idea, but we haven't explored it any further.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Higher multipliers, as Romes said below your post , would be a good and exciting way to get the HE back up where it needs to be. Imo, the best way. When RG posted the 96.x%, it changed my mind about wanting to play the game.

So, yeah, let's see it get viable.

We are looking at ways to get more multipliers into the game and we are going to try a $50 + $100 format. So in terms of how it would look to most vp players it would require a 5 coin wager plus an extra 10 for the MD cards and multipliers. It will allow us to get some higher multipliers into the game and allow the +4, +5 to show up more often. We will run some tests to see how it looks and we will return with an update.

My feeling is that vp players are going to go crazy over the higher required wager, but I think after they see the game and get chance to play it, they will not mind at all. If you look at the progression, Super Times Pay started with the extra coin and over the years Ultimate X came along requiring double the wager. Maybe the next progression is triple the wager!

We updated the game once again!

We are now doing a $50 + $100 wager for the game and in turn we are able to offer a MD card one out of four times per open card position and the game returns 99.54%.

http://realizegamingllc.com/dev/mdPoker99/





*Let me know what you think about the update, as I'd be very interested in what everyone thinks. We will know work on ways to appeal to the high risk - high reward group by using higher multipliers.

We have yet another update for the game. This time we tried to focus on higher multipliers attached to the MD card. We were able to do this and still managed a very good RTP.



Here is an example of the game using the higher multiplier.



You can play any of the current three versions of MultiDraw using the bottom links. Please feel free to post any winning pictures or leave feedback about the game.

version 1: http://realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdPoker/

version 2: http://realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdPoker99

version 3: http://realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdPoker10x

I was playing around with some of our demos in order to get screenshots of decent wins and I was able to get a royal flush. Always nice to see those type of wins!

Demo: https://www.realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdDDB2/

I've been playing the demo and I enjoyed playing this game. I'm not a big VP player, but I would look for this one.

1. Is this placed in live casinos (pandemic notwithstanding)? In internet casinos?

2. If I have 4 cards to a straight and only draw 1 card, is my chance of drawing a multidraw card lower than when I draw multiple cards?

Quote: gordonm888

(snip)
2. If I have 4 cards to a straight and only draw 1 card, is my chance of drawing a multidraw card lower than when I draw multiple cards?

Yes it is lower, I think the chance of the "multi-draw" card is 25% for each card that is drawn (so in your example it has a 25% chance of being drawn, and the average is about 67%***)

***: click on the link here >>> https://www.realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdDDB2/ >>> and then click the "i" button in the top left corner.

I was just wondering because of the higher chance of getting the "MD", but is it better to keep two pairs or to keep just the high pair (if one of the pairs is "jacks or better")?

I would guess you would keep the "high pair only" in this situation, but I haven't done the "math" on it (so can't be 100% sure).

Quote: gordonm888

I've been playing the demo and I enjoyed playing this game. I'm not a big VP player, but I would look for this one.

1. Is this placed in live casinos (pandemic notwithstanding)? In internet casinos?

2. If I have 4 cards to a straight and only draw 1 card, is my chance of drawing a multidraw card lower than when I draw multiple cards?

Thank you, gordonm888.

As of right now, it is not in any casino. The virus got in the way and we are in a holding pattern, along with several of our other games, until it gets itself all figured out. Hopefully, sooner than later.

According to the math for this version of the game, each time you draw a new card, you will have a 25% chance of the MD card appearing in that card position. So technically, the fewer cards you hold, the higher chance of the MD card appearing somewhere in the hand.

Quote: gordonm888

I've been playing the demo and I enjoyed playing this game. I'm not a big VP player, but I would look for this one.

1. Is this placed in live casinos (pandemic notwithstanding)? In internet casinos?

2. If I have 4 cards to a straight and only draw 1 card, is my chance of drawing a multidraw card lower than when I draw multiple cards?

Thank you, gordonm888.

As of right now, it is not in any casino. The virus got in the way and we are in a holding pattern, along with several of our other games, until it gets itself all figured out. Hopefully, sooner than later.

According to the math for this version of the game, each time you draw a new card, you will have a 25% chance of the MD card appearing in that card position. So technically, the fewer cards you hold, the higher chance of the MD card appearing somewhere in the hand.

Quote: ksdjdj

I was just wondering because of the higher chance of getting the "MD", but is it better to keep two pairs or to keep just the high pair (if one of the pairs is "jacks or better")?

I would guess you would keep the "high pair only" in this situation, but I haven't done the "math" on it (so can't be 100% sure).

Great question ksdjdj. I can ask my math guy to see what he thinks. My method of playing would be to hold the two pair and take my chances of getting an MD card and getting one or more full houses. In the case of a pair of aces and another pair, I think I would just hold the aces.

For anyone interested, I've started a Facebook Group dedicated to Realize Gaming, LLC video poker games. Feel free to join to play all the available games, post questions and screenshots, comments, and even go live if you would like to.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/682004145971896/?ref=group_header

Quote: RealizeGaming

I was playing around with some of our demos in order to get screenshots of decent wins and I was able to get a royal flush. Always nice to see those type of wins!

Demo: https://www.realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdDDB2/

I was playing around with the "Twin Twin Bonus (DDB)" and I have started a list of hands that are better ( may be better) to go for the "higher chance of getting the MD"

Note: The dollar values stated are the "$-RTPs" for a "DDB game with the same pay-table listed above" playing 5 x $1 ($5), and the values are rounded to the nearest $0.01.

Note 2: I haven't done the math of what the MD is worth in these scenarios , instead I have only put an "MD chance" figure there

---
"4 to an inside straight (3 high)" vs "Jack - Queen (off-suit)" vs "an Ace"

Example: As, 5d, 10s, Jd, Qc

Keep "4 to a straight (3 high)" = $2.66 + "25% chance of an MD"
Keep "Jack - Queen (off-suit)" = $2.24 + "~58% chance of an MD"
Keep "an Ace" = $2.21 + "~68% chance of an MD"

---
"Jack - King (off-suit)" vs "a Jack"

Example: 5c, Jh, Kd, 9c, 2d

Keep "Jack - King (off-suit)" = $2.25 + "~58% chance of an MD"
Keep "a Jack" = $2.16 + "~68% chance of an MD"

---
"2 to a Royal Flush (1 high)" vs "a King"

Example: 10d, 5c, Qd, Ks, 6c

Keep "2 to a Royal Flush (1 high)" = $2.27 + "~58% chance of an MD"
Keep "a King" = $2.11 + "~68% chance of an MD"

---
"2 Pair (with high pair)" vs "high pair"

Example: Kh, Kd, Ad, 10h, 10d

Keep "2 Pair (with high pair)" = $8.40 + "25% chance of an MD"
Keep "high pair" = $7.24 + "~58% chance of an MD"

---
Conclusion: For the above hands, I would guess you should keep the cards that have the "highest chance of getting the MD", but I haven't done a "proper analysis" ? (I am only listing them so far)

---
Spelling not checked

Quote: ksdjdj

Quote: RealizeGaming

I was playing around with some of our demos in order to get screenshots of decent wins and I was able to get a royal flush. Always nice to see those type of wins!

Demo: https://www.realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdDDB2/

I was playing around with the "Twin Twin Bonus (DDB)" and I have started a list of hands that are better ( may be better) to go for the "higher chance of getting the MD"

Note: The dollar values stated are the "$-RTPs" for a "DDB game with the same pay-table listed above" playing 5 x $1 ($5), and the values are rounded to the nearest $0.01.

Note 2: I haven't done the math of what the MD is worth in these scenarios , instead I have only put an "MD chance" figure there

---
"4 to an inside straight (3 high)" vs "Jack - Queen (off-suit)" vs "an Ace"

Example: As, 5d, 10s, Jd, Qc

Keep "4 to a straight (3 high)" = $2.66 + "25% chance of an MD"
Keep "Jack - Queen (off-suit)" = $2.24 + "~58% chance of an MD"
Keep "an Ace" = $2.21 + "~68% chance of an MD"

---
"Jack - King (off-suit)" vs "a Jack"

Example: 5c, Jh, Kd, 9c, 2d

Keep "Jack - King (off-suit)" = $2.25 + "~58% chance of an MD"
Keep "a Jack" = $2.16 + "~68% chance of an MD"

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"2 to a Royal Flush (1 high)" vs "a King"

Example: 10d, 5c, Qd, Ks, 6c

Keep "2 to a Royal Flush (1 high)" = $2.27 + "~58% chance of an MD"
Keep "a King" = $2.11 + "~68% chance of an MD"

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"2 Pair (with high pair)" vs "high pair"

Example: Kh, Kd, Ad, 10h, 10d

Keep "2 Pair (with high pair)" = $8.40 + "25% chance of an MD"
Keep "high pair" = $7.24 + "~58% chance of an MD"

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Conclusion: For the above hands, I would guess you should keep the cards that have the "highest chance of getting the MD", but I haven't done a "proper analysis" ? (I am only listing them so far)

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Spelling not checked

Impressive analysis. Thanks for spending time to put that together.

Here is a "deeper" analysis of a dealt full-house ("deeper" when compared to what I did in my previous post).

Game: https://www.realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdDDB2/

Assumptions:

. You can't get an "MD" on the deal.
. You can get a maximum of one "MD" , per game.
. Chance of an "MD" = 25% per "drawn card" .
. Average number of cards drawn when you get an "MD" = 2.90
. Average value of each "MD" card (when drawn) = 1.504
."Expected Value"/Combined average value of the "MD", if you draw it = 4.3616 (2.9 x 1.504)

Scenario:

Is it better to "keep a dealt Full-house" vs "keeping the 3 of a kind and going for the "MD" on the draw " ?

Example: 5d, 5h, 5c, 10d, 10h

Answer: It is better to keep the 3 of a kind (3oK) and go for the "MD"...

"Proof":
Keeping a dealt full-house is worth: 45
Keeping just the 3 of a kind... is worth: 66.361... ***

*** (see working below):

For a "normal game of DDB" with this game's pay-table, a 3oK is worth 26.859... (so keeping the dealt full-house would obviously be the better play, when playing a "normal game")
But with this game, you can get an "MD" card on the draw.

So , the real value of keeping a 3oK in this game is:

("Chance of NOT getting an MD" x "base value of a 3oK") + ("Chance of getting an MD" x "Expected Value of the MD" x "base value of a 3oK") = "real value"

= ( (0.75^2) x 26.859... ) + ((1- ( 0.75^2)) x 4.3616 x 26.859...) = 15.108... + 51.253... = 66.361...

66.361 (3oK) is bigger than 45 (dealt full-house), therefore the better play is to keep the 3ok, for the above scenario.

Note: This is just to prove that a "3oK" is the better play for this game, if you want to work out the real "RTP" of each play, then divide these amounts by 15 (since the total cost for this game is $15 per game).

Note 2: This is just the "proof and working" for keeping a "normal 3oK".

Note 3: From this proof, you can infer that keeping a "special^^^ 3oK" is also the correct play, when you are dealt a full-house.

^^^:"Special 3oK"s are, a "3oK in Aces", and "3oK in twos, threes or fours".

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Can someone check if the "MD" figures I used are correct, and also the general math...? (thanks)

It took me an hour or so just to work out and write this post, so hopefully someone better (more efficient?) can take it from here?

Spelling not checked thoroughly (if you are wondering why I often write something like this at the end of my posts, it is mainly because I have trouble concentrating, especially when I read/write long posts)

Quote: ksdjdj

Here is a "deeper" analysis of a dealt full-house ("deeper" when compared to what I did in my previous post).

Game: https://www.realizegamingllc.com/demo/mdDDB2/

Assumptions:

. You can't get an "MD" on the deal.
. You can get a maximum of one "MD" , per game.
. Chance of an "MD" = 25% per "drawn card" .
. Average number of cards drawn when you get an "MD" = 2.90
. Average value of each "MD" card (when drawn) = 1.504
."Expected Value"/Combined average value of the "MD", if you draw it = 4.3616 (2.9 x 1.504)

Scenario:

Is it better to "keep a dealt Full-house" vs "keeping the 3 of a kind and going for the "MD" on the draw " ?

Example: 5d, 5h, 5c, 10d, 10h

Answer: It is better to keep the 3 of a kind (3oK) and go for the "MD"...

"Proof":
Keeping a dealt full-house is worth: 45
Keeping just the 3 of a kind... is worth: 66.361... ***

*** (see working below):

For a "normal game of DDB" with this game's pay-table, a 3oK is worth 26.859... (so keeping the dealt full-house would obviously be the better play, when playing a "normal game")
But with this game, you can get an "MD" card on the draw.

So , the real value of keeping a 3oK in this game is:

("Chance of NOT getting an MD" x "base value of a 3oK") + ("Chance of getting an MD" x "Expected Value of the MD" x "base value of a 3oK") = "real value"

= ( (0.75^2) x 26.859... ) + ((1- ( 0.75^2)) x 4.3616 x 26.859...) = 15.108... + 51.253... = 66.361...

66.361 (3oK) is bigger than 45 (dealt full-house), therefore the better play is to keep the 3ok, for the above scenario.

Note: This is just to prove that a "3oK" is the better play for this game, if you want to work out the real "RTP" of each play, then divide these amounts by 15 (since the total cost for this game is $15 per game).

Note 2: This is just the "proof and working" for keeping a "normal 3oK".

Note 3: From this proof, you can infer that keeping a "special^^^ 3oK" is also the correct play, when you are dealt a full-house.

^^^:"Special 3oK"s are, a "3oK in Aces", and "3oK in twos, threes or fours".

----
Can someone check if the "MD" figures I used are correct, and also the general math...? (thanks)

It took me an hour or so just to work out and write this post, so hopefully someone better (more efficient?) can take it from here?

Spelling not checked thoroughly (if you are wondering why I often write something like this at the end of my posts, it is mainly because I have trouble concentrating, especially when I read/write long posts)

Great information, ksdjdj.

I do agree with your belief that breaking up a full house by keeping the trips is the correct play. I also wonder how much that would change if there was still possibility of getting a MD on the draw of the game, even without any open card positions (similar to Double Super Times Pay). My guess is that it will get added to the game at some point to provide the opportunity for the MD card on dealt winning hands.

Quote: RealizeGaming

Great information, ksdjdj.

I do agree with your belief that breaking up a full house by keeping the trips is the correct play. I also wonder how much that would change if there was still possibility of getting a MD on the draw of the game, even without any open card positions (similar to Double Super Times Pay). My guess is that it will get added to the game at some point to provide the opportunity for the MD card on dealt winning hands.

I like the current way with no MD on pat hands and a variable overall probability of MD based on number of cards drawn. Creates the opportunity for mistakes which, theoretically, might result in the casinos allowing for a lower house edge for players who take the time to develop/learn optimal strategy.

So far, I like this version the most (see link below) mainly because you have a chance to get the MD*** on the deal as well as the draw

***: When you get the MD on the deal you would probably use a "standard DDB VP strategy", and if you don't get an MD on the deal then you need to play "like you would with ...mdDDB2", if you want to get the best potential RTP.

http://www.realizegamingllc.com/demo/MDDelux/

Edited Post (about 445 pm)

I agree with you in terms of how to play.

We recieved mixed reviews when using the MD on the deal. I like it, but it takes a bit to get used to it, especially after playing the first version where the MD card can only appear on the draw.