When to break pat hands?

Call me Lazy, but, it may not be laziness. I just can't remember all the rules for when to break pat hands for every single common video poker game.

So I was wondering, does anyone here have some kind of easy to remember "rule of thumb" or general guideline for when to break pat hands?

Anything helps as long as I don't have to remember each instance individually.

Thanks!

Quote: Neutrino

Call me Lazy, but, it may not be laziness. I just can't remember all the rules for when to break pat hands for every single common video poker game.

So I was wondering, does anyone here have some kind of easy to remember "rule of thumb" or general guideline for when to break pat hands?

Anything helps as long as I don't have to remember each instance individually.

Thanks!

My reply to your post will probably offend you... so... against my better judgement,I will apologize in advance. I am one of the laziest people I know but you take it to new heights. Perhaps your just baiting us here with this question? I wouldn't say that you have a "rule of thumb" when breaking certain hands. I suppose a case could be made for pay pairs when your playing a Progressive Royal that is at 6000 coins or better. So many pat hands or paying hands to break on so many different VP games. Something like Aces Full in Double Bonus is an easy example. The point is that you should at least have some VP program that you can just plug this information in and easily see your answer. You should have some sort of program that creates instant strategies and you will be able to see when you break straights and what not. I prefer an older program that is color coded and pretty easy to read compared to the laminated ones you can buy that uses greater and less than symbols. Those guides are difficult to read compared to a color coded list.

So basically if your too lazy to figure this out with just a few moments of work, how are you going to be able to plug hours upon hours taking roller coaster swings in VP to be able to be a winning player? I don't see how that is possible but you could prove me wrong!?

I only know 1 way to do it that's not just rote memorization You have to go to WoO/JB's hand analyzer, pick the VP game through the drop-down menus, then plug in the exact.paytable they're offering. Print out or hand-write the analysis (I copy into Word, then format and minimize text size so I can put it in my wallet) for each game you commonly.play.

I know at least 2 guys who have memorized all the exceptions for each game, but they had to work at it. You can also use the training tool on videopoker.Com (requires a gold membership ) until you get 100 % accurate, but while they have standard paytables, they don't have all of them. Different paytables on the same game require different strategy, especially concerning pat hands.

Knowing the strategy to "every single common video poker game" is a feat in it of itself. If you know the strategy to every game, then you're either 1) doing it wrong or 2) Have found many circumstances where playing different games is essentially required.

All you probably need to know is JOB and DW strategies. DB/DDB would be bonuses. You don't need to know the differences between 15/9 and 16/10 DW, or JOB vs BP vs BPD (except for holding inside straights in BPD). Joker Poker is probably just flat out worthless to know, unless you have found a specific situation where you need to know it.

If you know a strategy, the easiest hands are the ones where you break a pat hand (except perhaps DB....but don't learn that game unless you have to, that game is stupid AF).

Of the ones I know that I can think off the top of my head....


every game I can think of -- break high pair, straight, or flush when drawing to 4 to royal (do NOT break a dealt SF, except in DW you break natural 9-K suited for the RF).
DDB, 9/7 DB, TDB -- hold AA over 2 pair, hold AAA over full house. [I think 10/7 DB you hold FH over AAA as well as 2pair over AA, but I haven't played 10/7 so IDK]
9/7 DB -- hold 4 to flush over high pair IF you have 3 high cards (or maybe 2 high cards?)
DW -- hold 222 over dealt SF
TDB -- hold 222-444 over FH
6/5 BP -- hold AAA over FH (what, you don't play 6/5 BP?)

First off DB is not a stupid game... complicated but well worth the time to learn currently netting 75 dollars an hour in a specific spot. You always break aces full in this game. Joker Poker is a great game and you can find full pay versions. I thought my advice was best. I know many games and strategies but I play many versions daily and for many years now but I still make specific strategy charts and take a picture just in case I get stuck. That's the real point. If you don't know the game just print up a strategy.

I've posted what I'm about to repeat a few times. You can go to the WoO strategy maker and input the pay table for whatever game you're going to play, unless it's a gimmick game like UX, and get the correct strategy and all of its exceptions, wait for it......FOR FREE!!! Print them out and take them with you.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I've posted what I'm about to repeat a few times. You can go to the WoO strategy maker and input the pay table for whatever game you're going to play, unless it's a gimmick game like UX, and get the correct strategy and all of its exceptions, wait for it......FOR FREE!!! Print them out and take them with you.

He is lazy. He said so.

In Bob Dancers class, he recommends being discrete when using these types of charts in casinos. Has anyone ever had a problem?

Quote: monet0412

If you don't know the game just print up a strategy.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

exceptions, wait for it......FOR FREE!!! Print them out and take them with you.

Quote: billryan

In Bob Dancers class, he recommends being discrete when using these types of charts in casinos. Has anyone ever had a problem?

Is this legal to use at a casino?

Quote: Neutrino

Call me Lazy, but, it may not be laziness. I just can't remember all the rules for when to break pat hands for every single common video poker game.

So I was wondering, does anyone here have some kind of easy to remember "rule of thumb" or general guideline for when to break pat hands?

Anything helps as long as I don't have to remember each instance individually.

Thanks!

What pat hands are you talking about? Are you talking about stuff like dealt straights and flushes vs 4 cars str8 flushes?

IANAL. My best understanding is the law does not prohibit a piece of paper with strategy on it. In fact, many casinos sell them in their gift shop to use at their games.

Electronic devices are prohibited. How strictly and strongly they enforce such, I don't know. Certainly everybody uses their phones at the machines. If they observe you punching in hands to an analyzer, I expect they could ask you to leave or worse.

That's why I said print it out and carry a hard copy.

FYI all of my information is for Vegas only!

Let's ask other questions... what looks worse than you looking at your phone or printed chart or punching in hands to analyze?

1. Players that wear huge headphones at the machine and bring a cooler. (Guilty)

2. Players that play one machine for 8 to 12 hours and hardly leave the machine. (Guilty)

3. Players who bring bottles of water to the bar and never order from the bartender while banging out some 3x Royal Progressive and get upset at the bartender when they keep getting asked if they want something to drink. (Sorta Guilty)

4. Players who get nasty with the slot attendants and don't tip on hand pays ever. (Done this a few times as well)

5. Players who play two machines as fast as possible and don't order drinks or go to the bathroom. (Guilty)

Many other things to list but I'll stop here. Honestly nobody cares if your looking at porn on your phone or looking up some hold on your phone. Nobody cares if your looking at a strategy chart for VP or texting your friend. Too much paranoia on this site and in the real world at times for me. I have actually played BJ with a strategy chart next to me for fun. As BBB said they sell them in the Gift Shop. I have actually messed with the floor and dealers telling them I am counting cards while drinking double Johnny Walkers.

Players don't get in trouble for looking at strategy charts or holds up on the phone. They usually get in trouble for doing some shady things like abusing promotions, leaving hands on machines so they can switch later, running 40 people through the club and many other things that aren't exactly kosher but are necessary if you want to make some easy money with low risk of trouble.

I see basically the same advice given from the few posts in here and the consensus is to print up your strategy. My friend swears by practicing on the computer for 15 mins a day to learn/stay sharp but I have always practiced in the Casino and when I got stuck I looked up the hold. I remember when the Book wouldn't allow cell phones but they finally had to give in on that law/rule. Same thing goes for your phone and machines... nobody cares about you and your cell phone.

Quote: billryan

In Bob Dancers class, he recommends being discrete when using these types of charts in casinos. Has anyone ever had a problem?

I personally have never had a problem with any charts. I would like to know why this person isn't as discreet when he has his monthly dinner and another person has him look at a list of players and isn't so discreet about suggesting who they might want to watch. I'd also like to know why years ago when this person was going around town teaching classes it didn't seem they were so discreet the next day when he left and all the Full Pay machines were all cut? I might be a little bitter about that so forgive me if I offend.

IANAL,

But I haven't seen anything saying strictly using an electronic device is illegal. From what I remember, it says it's illegal if you're using it to cheat or gain an advantage or something along those lines....I don't remember it verbatim. I don't think the word electronic/electrical/etc. is used, just simply a device. I don't see how a strategy chart on your phone or on paper would be any different.

Of course, typing in hands into a calculator murks up the waters and I believe it can be argued both ways (to be legal and illegal).



Learn the strategy and play it. If you are so bad at the game you have to look at the strategy chart frequently, you don't know it well enough -- go home and learn it. If you're looking at it very infrequently for only those really confusing hands (like the AJT5 suited, K off in JOB), you're giving up hardly nothing if you play that hand and similar hands incorrectly, assuming you're playing the best or next-best hand (ie: and not something stupid like K only). If you want to perfect your strategy, then either remember the confusing hands or write them down or something like that, so you can analyze it later and learn it better.


The only time off the top of my head that I'd recommend using a strategy chart is if you got last second notice on a play with a wonky strategy and it's a short-time thing where it'll be gone by the end of the day or a few hours or whatever (ie: not enough time to learn the strategy).


I played a game a while back that had a pretty weird strategy. Always hold 4 card SF's, 3 card SF over 4 to straight, hold all high pairs over two pairs, always hold 3 of a kinds over full house, and I think hold TJQ/JQK suited over a dealt straight, and I think some others I don't remember (probably sh*t like 34 suited and 9T suited)....those were deviations from normal strategy on a game that already has a weird strategy...so it was a bit confusing to say the least, but even that was relatively simple compared to something, like say, 8/8/8 AA (or w/e the full pay version is).

You know what game is messed up is Triple Treys. WTF at the strategy on that game

Quote: AxelWolf

What pat hands are you talking about? Are you talking about stuff like dealt straights and flushes vs 4 cars str8 flushes?

yes this

Quote: Neutrino

yes this

Assuming non wild games, under normal conditions you will never be tossing out pat flushes or straights for straight flush draws. Most of the time you would keep all dealt full houses(see exceptions for bonus games that have premium 4 of a kinds).

As far as pay pairs VS 3 card Royal draws, that's going to depend on what game you are playing .On JOB and bonus poker you will normally be holding the pay pair. With Double/triple Bonus variants it will depend on various factors, even then, it will change depending on what 3 card royal, and or, the pay pair you have( such as aces).

I don't know what other pat hands you would be referring to(I can't think of any that don't seem obvious).

Quote: djatc

You know what game is messed up is Triple Treys. WTF at the strategy on that game

Give up the 1% and use the auto hold. You would be giving up way more than 1% playing it on the fly. IIRC you toss out pairs and do other crazy stuff for even just a lone 3.

Its a fun game when you are catching the three 3's and entering the bonus round, not so much when you cant seem to do that.

Quote: AxelWolf

Give up the 1% and use the auto hold. You would be giving up way more than 1% playing it on the fly. IIRC you toss out pairs and do other crazy stuff for even just a lone 3.

Its a fun game when you are catching the three 3's and entering the bonus round, not so much when you cant seem to do that.

That sounds like a Spielo game called, "Triple Ace Poker," do you guys have a paytable and how the Bonus works?