100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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November 28th, 2016 at 4:26:58 PM permalink
next year I'm going to make a go at 7stars.

best game CET has is $5 single line 99.7% dw. it's $25 per spin.
they also have $0.25 spin poker deluxe (8/5 bp, 99.2%), which is 20lines. it's also $25 per spin.

advantage 99.7% dw: Better return than 8/5 bp
disadvantage: w2-G tax forms every time I hit quad 2's or royals

advantage .25 spin poker deluxe (8/5 bp): w2-g tax form only if you hit multiple royals, and lower variance.
disadvantage: .5% lower return than 99.7% dw. (but I make that up by not getting w2-g?)

(if you're going to lecture me about paying your taxes, don't bother replying.)

so which would you do if going for 7stars ($500k coin-in)?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
DRich
DRich
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100xOdds
November 28th, 2016 at 4:50:26 PM permalink
On the Deuces odds are you will not hit a royal but will get Deuces about 4 times so let's estimate you get $30,000 in W2G's. Most likely you will end up losing money on the play and get to write off the whole $30,000. If you win will most likely still be able to write off a good percentage of it.

Playing the Bonus Poker you will lose approximately $2500 more than playing the deuces. If your bankroll can handle the volatility play the Deuces.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Homelessnyc
Homelessnyc
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November 28th, 2016 at 4:54:17 PM permalink
Since when is 7* 500k coin in? It's 750k (150k tc x $5) for slots and I would guess double or more for VP especially 99%+
100xOdds
100xOdds
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November 28th, 2016 at 9:36:41 PM permalink
Quote: Homelessnyc

Since when is 7* 500k coin in? It's 750k (150k tc x $5) for slots and I would guess double or more for VP especially 99%+


5k tc per day = $50k coin in + 10k bonus tc = 15k tc.
x10 = $500k coin in = 150k tc = 7stars
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
RS
RS
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100xOdds
November 28th, 2016 at 9:55:01 PM permalink
On SPD, most royals will be W2G's.
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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100xOdds
November 28th, 2016 at 10:44:11 PM permalink
500K of coin-in on a 99.73 NSUD game gives you a theoretical loss of $1350. The same amount at 8/5 BP gives you a theoretical loss of $4000. You may get W2Gs on either game.

You can keep track of your play using your own handwritten logs and then ask for a printout from the slot club to verify it. When you file your taxes, you can declare only your net win for the year. (Or zero, if you had a loss). I know that some people abhor W2-Gs because they think you have to itemize to claim gambling losses to offset "wins" (those W2-Gs), but that isn't the case in practice. Also, playing Spin Poker Deluxe, you'll often get two or more royals at once, generating a W2-G anyway. So I wouldn't take an additional $2650 hit just because I might get fewer W2-Gs.
BobDancer
BobDancer
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Homelessnyconenickelmiracle100xOddsZourah
November 29th, 2016 at 3:40:47 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

5k tc per day = $50k coin in + 10k bonus tc = 15k tc.
x10 = $500k coin in = 150k tc = 7stars



The math is correct --- but actually less play than that is required. There are a variety of bonuses periodically in effect.

If you qualified for Level 1 or Level 2 Diamond Aspiration rewards this year you get 5K tier credits for each one next year. Collecting both reduces the play required by $33K video poker coin-in approximately.

In 2016 there was a 50% tier credit bonus for play during a few months in the spring --- up to a 25K limit. Had you played three days of $50K each during that time period (earning 15K reward credits and 30K in tier credit bonuses)), you received an additional 22.5K tier credit bonus. (that reduced your annual play requirement by $75K video poker coin-in). If you play during the last few weeks of this year to earn this years 7* award, you also get a tier credit bonus for next year. I didn't follow the rules closely on this one because I had already qualified for 7 Stars and didn't need any additional tier credits.

Keep in mind that playing exactly $50K per day on the best machine available is a way to essentially dry up all of offers.
100xOdds
100xOdds
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November 29th, 2016 at 6:56:15 AM permalink
thx everyone for your replies.


Quote: BobDancer

The math is correct --- but actually less play than that is required. There are a variety of bonuses periodically in effect.

If you qualified for Level 1 or Level 2 Diamond Aspiration rewards this year you get 5K tier credits for each one next year. Collecting both reduces the play required by $33K video poker coin-in approximately.

In 2016 there was a 50% tier credit bonus for play during a few months in the spring --- up to a 25K limit. Had you played three days of $50K each during that time period (earning 15K reward credits and 30K in tier credit bonuses)), you received an additional 22.5K tier credit bonus. (that reduced your annual play requirement by $75K video poker coin-in). If you play during the last few weeks of this year to earn this years 7* award, you also get a tier credit bonus for next year. I didn't follow the rules closely on this one because I had already qualified for 7 Stars and didn't need any additional tier credits.

Keep in mind that playing exactly $50K per day on the best machine available is a way to essentially dry up all of offers.


ahh.. forgot about the bonus promos, like one they have now till end of year (40% tc bonus applied to next year).

im aspirations 1, so I get 5k tc in feb next year.
I also have my aspirations trip (4 days + $100 folio) but must redeem by January 31, 2017 with all travel fully completed by June 30, 2017.
hopefully they will announce the next 50% tc bonus before jan 31,2017 so I can make reservations.

neither of these 2 games are near my home casino. so I don't care if I don't get offers from them since I don't plan on returning.
or are you saying it also affects offers from my home casino??
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
100xOdds
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December 7th, 2016 at 8:23:59 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

If your bankroll can handle the volatility play the Deuces.


I'm trying to calc how much bankroll I need for $5 99.7% dw.

$50k coin-in (5k tc) per day for the max +10k bonus tc.
$25/spin is 2k hands. That's not alot.
I've run bad at 80% return with that small amount of play before. (See my thread About dstp 9/5 JoB.)

Hmm.. for the whole 7stars run, that's only 20k hands.

$500k coin-in x 80% return = $400k.
Thus $100k loss?!?

No way do I have that kind of bankroll!

Looks like 20 line $0.25 spin poker deluxe (8/5 bp) it is.
Still $25/spin but I would have 40k hands per day. That would smooth out the volatility, right?

What bankroll should I have?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
ET
ET
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December 30th, 2016 at 9:44:34 AM permalink
Your offers should be better playing the Bonus than the Deuces, but likely not more than the .55 needed to make up the difference in EV between the two games.

The real question is, is the Spin Deluxe a "mistake"? I know of one Caesars property where the $5 16-10 is offered, and everything else there is pretty much junk (with one or two exceptions). If the Bonus has something like 4.5% theo and the DW something like 2.25% theo, depending on player reinvestment %s, it may be very close which game is better.

I would test both games out, and see what happens to your offers.

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