Split Poker VP from IGT

This is a new game from IGT that looks very fun to me. I'm wondering what the true odds are, though, with the double bet required to activate the split feature. videopoker.com has this for Gold only, but today it's the contest of the day, open to all site members. VP.com also says it will be in casinos "soon".



In their "how to play" files, they say the value of the split card will be the same, 1 up, or 1 down. I've seen it either suited or unsuited. They also say it occurs in approx. 1 in 4 hands. I'm thinking strategy almost has to be to retain the split card in most if not all hands (like, not for 3OAK that doesn't match and the split card is not a pair of itself), but otherwise held rather than discarded with garbage, maybe even held as the 2nd pair with Aces on DDB since you get 2 chances at a FH, not just one.

What do you all think?

Edit: Here's an interesting fail holding 4 to a RF:



Here's another interesting hand, where you can both hold the pat flush and draw to the SF:

Looks interesting at least. I don't like that you have to pay double for 1 extra card.. In your last example you hit 10 flushes, and you bet 100 to win 300 (3-1 on a dealt flush). I'd also be interested in seeing some further analysis done on this though. Good/interesting find =)

You do see a lot more flushes, straights, and FH's in my (short) time playing it, with 6 cards to work with some times, but it has to be a bear of a math problem. I do want to correct something I said in the OP: it appears the split card is always suited, whether it's paired or 1 rank apart. So that's pretty helpful as a card, I think, most of the time.

Yeah I played a decent amount today. Problem is, they don't give you probabilities on how often the split card shows on the deal or draw.

pull off straight flush with split card


Wondering if this is the right play with 2 cracks at the straight.


Makes drawing to quads a bit easier.


High pair and flush draw better than 2 pair?


I'm cool with missing this since it's play money


Just Split Card, or Aces with flush draw?


Made 5 flushes...*shrug*


And here's a bug...I'd say this should say "2 pair"


It works right in Bonus though.

Quote: beachbumbabs

it appears the split card is always suited, whether it's paired or 1 rank apart

Indeed, the help screen says that when the feature is activated, the card being split will always be split into another card of the same suit, and will either be the same rank, one higher, or one lower, with equal probability. (For a split ace, the other card will be another ace, or a king or deuce with equal probability.)

The help screen also says that a split card can appear on the deal or the draw, and that there can only be one split card per hand, but it doesn't say how often a split card occurs.

Quote: JB

Indeed, the help screen says that when the feature is activated, the card being split will always be split into another card of the same suit, and will either be the same rank, one higher, or one lower, with equal probability. (For a split ace, the other card will be another ace, or a king or deuce with equal probability.)

The help screen also says that a split card can appear on the deal or the draw, and that there can only be one split card per hand, but it doesn't say how often a split card occurs.

Thanks, JB. One of the VP moderators said the split card occurs 1 in 4 hands, according to their source at IGT. I didn't see a statement like that on the help page myself. Based on my play, I think that might be accurate if you count getting a split card on the deal and holding it as 10 hands towards that total (using whatever optimal strategy might be - I found myself holding it about 2/3 of hands just guessing at when it should be retained, since even with nothing else going on, it gives you 6 cards to work with on the draw, and it was often the only pair/card I held). It definitely didn't reflect my results if you count the appearance of it once per any 10 hands as 1, dealt or drawn.

Something else interesting is that, when you have the split card, the identical card can show up in the hand. I didn't see this with split pairs, but with the 1 rank off split, I saw at least 3 times where one of the two cards came into the hand as a single and counted as a pair/flush contributor with itself. I don't know if that's a bug or designed in on purpose, but it would have to change any HE calculation if it's possible. When I get another chance to play the game, I'll try and capture it in a picture.

I also saw the bug trin mentions, where equal hand values were called as the lesser one. I'm not sure it is a bug; with the 5OAK possible, it might be better EV to hold the JoB value over 2 pair and they're pointing it out (playing DDB). I also played 1 game of Deuces, and saw it with the game calling 4OAK a FH when both were present. Since in both cases, the payoff is the same, I think that might be the source of the bug, but also may reflect a different value ranking in how you hold or the occurrence of different hands with a potential 6th card of a particular value.

Overall, I like the game even though I haven't been able to play it yet. I need to renew my gold membership!

When playing the game I'm sure I would make a number of mistakes. I'm not a big fan of being able to potentially use both cards in the split card position as I think it can be very confusing for the player. Babs also mentioned that she thought the same card(s) that were in the split card position can appear once again in the hand. If this is true I'm sure it would slow players down because they would spend more time trying to evaluate their winning hands.

I will try to play it soon to get a better feel for it. It kind of has some distant similarities to my game Fusion Poker which I'm hoping will be allowed by the patent office soon.

I forgot to post my pic:

Quote: RealizeGaming

Overall, I like the game even though I haven't been able to play it yet. I need to renew my gold membership!

When playing the game I'm sure I would make a number of mistakes. I'm not a big fan of being able to potentially use both cards in the split card position as I think it can be very confusing for the player. Babs also mentioned that she thought the same card(s) that were in the split card position can appear once again in the hand. If this is true I'm sure it would slow players down because they would spend more time trying to evaluate their winning hands.

I will try to play it soon to get a better feel for it. It kind of has some distant similarities to my game Fusion Poker which I'm hoping will be allowed by the patent office soon.

It's not "can", it's "do" sometimes appear (have only seen it on 1rank off, but have seen it several times). I'll try and get a screen grab.

Quote: beachbumbabs

It's not "can", it's "do" sometimes appear (have only seen it on 1rank off, but have seen it several times). I'll try and get a screen grab.

I'd love to see a screen of it if you get a chance. I will have to keep my eyes on the website to see when the game goes free for all members. I

Quote: RealizeGaming

I'd love to see a screen of it if you get a chance. I will have to keep my eyes on the website to see when the game goes free for all members. I

That took all of 3 hands:



Note the full house on the bottom left; 3 4's, and 3 5's (including the double count on the 5S, which counted on several other FH's as the 3OAK part). Pretty interesting game, I think.

I'll play a bit more, see if I can dupe up a split pair as well.

Two hands later, another 1 rank off:



Just 'cuz I liked getting the 4AWAK:



Last pic, just cuz of the jackpot:



I've seen a couple dozen more dupes in about 400 hands, but in every case:

A split pair does not create a dupe.
The duped card, which only appears with a 1-off rank split, is in every case the front card.
So I conclude the back card is the base card and the only one that registers as "used", whether paired or not.
A dupe card can appear on either the deal or the draw.
A duped card can complete any hand, up to a 5OAK (logically, if there's a duped card in a Royal, it wasn't needed).

Thanks for posting, Babs. I really like the concept but don't really care for the idea of having the same card in the final evaluation of the hand. Seems like it could be confusing.

Do you have the option of keeping or discarding the split card? Does it only appear on the deal, or can it be on the draw?

Quote: RealizeGaming

Thanks for posting, Babs. I really like the concept but don't really care for the idea of having the same card in the final evaluation of the hand. Seems like it could be confusing.

Do you have the option of keeping or discarding the split card? Does it only appear on the deal, or can it be on the draw?

You have all the same options as draw poker. The split card can appear on either. I did not ever see a hand with more than 1 split card in it.

Quote: beachbumbabs

You have all the same options as draw poker. The split card can appear on either. I did not ever see a hand with more than 1 split card in it.

The rules explicitly forbid multiple split cards in one hand. I wonder if New Jersey will incorrectly approve this game with the vp.com help screen rules. It's not enough to be legal there, imo, unless I'm missing something. They require optimal strategy to be mathematically calculable from the paytable and rules.

Quote: tringlomane

The rules explicitly forbid multiple split cards in one hand. I wonder if New Jersey will incorrectly approve this game with the vp.com help screen rules. It's not enough to be legal there, imo, unless I'm missing something. They require optimal strategy to be mathematically calculable from the paytable and rules.

My thinking is different as I would like two or more split cards in the hand. The problem would be trying to figure out how to determine the hands. It makes it even more complicated when the same card can be in the hand. I know it's a relatively new game, but does anyone play with the correct strategy yet?

For those that were interested in trying this game, it is the weekly contest game at videopoker.com starting this morning, so is available to all players for the week, not just gold members.

Thanks Babs. Going to give it some time later tonight.

I had an opportunity to play Split Card Poker for a bit and had a few random thoughts.

Overall, I like the game. When I first heard of the concept I thought implementing it would be an issue. It seems like it is very well implemented into their game and for the most part doesn't really slow the game down.

I wonder if the reason they kept the creation of the split card at one card above, below, or a duplicate card purely based on the math. I personally would like the split card to be totally random cards and also not having the possibility of duplicating itself. I understand that it does help with increasing the probability of getting four of kinds, but I don't like the idea of using the exact same card to determine wins in the game. I'm partial to Fusion Poker where several cards that make up the fusion card are all different and each one is used separately in the evaluation of the final hands. Also, I like the option of the user creating the Fusion Card when it appears in the hand, but I'll save that conversation for another thread.

I would be a bit disappointed if I was dealt a duplicate split card and the remaining cards for a royal flush. I would feel like I should get paid for two royals.

In my short time of playing, if I was ever dealt a split card on the opening deal, I would always keep the split card and other cards that helped the split card. I don't recall ever throwing it away, even though I'm sure there are situations that would call for discarding it.

It was probably mentioned before, but approximately how often does the split card show up? In the time I played it seemed like it appeared a fair amount of time.

I wonder if IGT/Action Gaming utilized one of their newer patents for this game or if the game is derived from a "6 card poker patent." I know there is a ton of prior art on 6 card poker and the feel of the game makes me think of a 6 card poker game.

A good game, but love to hear what others think about it.

BTW, the picture on the opening page of videopoker.com is my wife. She is in the orange shirt. It was interesting to see her there when I logged in to play the game today!

Quote: RealizeGaming

BTW, the picture on the opening page of videopoker.com is my wife. She is in the orange shirt. It was interesting to see her there when I logged in to play the game today!

Didn't realize she consented to do that? haha

Decided to play another round just now. Got my first quint, from dealt split quads.



Hold full house with split card?

Quote: tringlomane

Didn't realize she consented to do that? haha

Decided to play another round just now. Got my first quint, from dealt split quads.



Hold full house with split card?

We consented to allow the picture a number of years ago when we attended the videopoker.com meet and great. It just surprised me to see it when going there to play split card for the first time.

Nice win!

So here's a hand I want to discuss; it seems like one where the basic strategy should vary. I could be wrong.



The initial draw was the KQh plus Kh as held, and 2 offsuit 3's. I'm playing DDB, so 2pr is the same pay as JOB. Holding 2pr is bs in DDB, but in this hand I also have 2 to a Royal and 3 to a Flush as well as the JOB. The 2Pr can only improve to a FH, because I'm using 4 cards (even though 5 are displayed) and can only draw 1 more. But only holding the K's can improve to a flush, RF, 3OAK, 4OAK, FH, or straight, with 3 slots available to be filled. So I think holding as I did was the better choice. What do you all think?

EDIT: Here's another one.



BS is to hold the 4 to a RF. I had a flush (the 3h) that I could have held, guaranteeing a 300 credit payout, and still have drawn to the RF, with 1 slot available. Instead, I held the 4 to a RF, leaving 2 slots available, but did not hit it, and lost 1/2 my equity not holding the sure thing. What do you think? Was this still the correct play? I think it was, but I don't know.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Here's another one. BS is to hold the 4 to a RF. I had a flush (the 3h) that I could have held, guaranteeing a 300 credit payout, and still have drawn to the RF, with 1 slot available. Instead, I held the 4 to a RF, leaving 2 slots available, but did not hit it, and lost 1/2 my equity not holding the sure thing. What do you think? Was this still the correct play? I think it was, but I don't know.

Holding the 4RF was definitely the better play. With a 2/47 probability of winning 4000 credits, the royal flush contributes 170.2 credits to the return of that hold.

Holding the flush, you have only two outcomes:

1/47 probability of winning 4000 credits = 85.1 credits
46/47 probability of winning 30 credits = 29.36 credits

That's 114.5 credits, which is less than the 170.2 credits from the 4RF before even considering the other hands you might get from the 4RF (1P, 2P, 3K, ST, FL).

I've bricked 2 four to a royal draws so far myself in about 500 deals. Bit shocked on that one, but since it's play money, I'm cool with that.

Quote: JB

Holding the 4RF was definitely the better play. With a 2/47 probability of winning 4000 credits, the royal flush contributes 170.2 credits to the return of that hold.

Holding the flush, you have only two outcomes:

1/47 probability of winning 4000 credits = 85.1 credits
46/47 probability of winning 30 credits = 29.36 credits

That's 114.5 credits, which is less than the 170.2 credits from the 4RF before even considering the other hands you might get from the 4RF (1P, 2P, 3K, ST, FL).

Thanks very much for the answer, JB, especially showing the calc so I can learn to do this myself. Really appreciate it!

Same scenario as above, this time it paid:

Quote: beachbumbabs

Same scenario as above, this time it paid:

Really nice wins. I guess that's the great thing about being able to use both cards from the split card in the final hand evaluation.

Quote: beachbumbabs

One of the VP moderators said the split card occurs 1 in 4 hands, according to their source at IGT.

Can I press you on this to get the exact wording and who said it. Thanks.

Quote: Wizard

Can I press you on this to get the exact wording and who said it. Thanks.

Not comfortable posting from another forum here, so please see your PM.

I have a draft of my new Split Card Poker page up.

As always, I welcome comments, questions, and especially corrections. In particular my wording on the rules regarding the Split Card and the programming note.

Thank you.

Quote: Wizard

I have a draft of my new Split Card Poker page up.

As always, I welcome comments, questions, and especially corrections. In particular my wording on the rules regarding the Split Card and the programming note.

Thank you.

Thanks Wizard! I notice that Joker Poker is one of the games offered. Can the joker "split" too?

I note that pairs of Jacks or Better and two pairs, are actually losing hands due to the matching bet "fee" that is required to activate the feature. Seems like a pretty steep price to pay for a feature that only appears about 1 in four hands. These have to trigger major strategy changes, no?

I don't see how the paytable percentages of nearly every game can match up with its standard poker paytable equivalent. That has to be the biggest streak of coincidence if true.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Thanks Wizard! I notice that Joker Poker is one of the games offered. Can the joker "split" too?

You're welcome. I assume that the joker can't be split, since it has no rank nor suit.

Quote:

I note that pairs of Jacks or Better and two pairs, are actually losing hands due to the matching bet "fee" that is required to activate the feature. Seems like a pretty steep price to pay for a feature that only appears about 1 in four hands. These have to trigger major strategy changes, no?

What machine player ever thinks that? The machines take your money quietly but rewards you with fanfare for anything coming back.

To correct you, between the deal and draw there is about a 40% chance of seeing a Split Card on any given hand. I have to say I think this is the best video poker variant from IGT I've seen in a while. I'm tired of multiplier and prize-wheel games. Yes, I'm sure the strategy would be very complicated, in the unlikely chance anybody ever tries to create one. Just playing it myself I am often perplexed at what to do. I predict that the inevitable strategy errors will cause a much lower return than optimal. My advice to any slot manager thinking of stalling the game, in the unlikely chance any should be reading this, would be to set it to the highest possible pay tables in Split Card mode.

Quote: Wizard

You're welcome. I assume that the joker can't be split, since it has no rank nor suit

And you'd be incorrect, Wizard. 😀

I played Split Card Poker (AC Joker Poker- Two Pair) at Resorts Atlantic City over the weekend for nickels and was dealt Joker/Joker 8s 8d 8h X for a 40,000 credit jackpot. I ditched the X and actually got a 6-of-a-kind (paid the same as 5-of-a-kind: 4,000 credits on that line).

The split card joker can also appear on the draw. According to the game rules, when a joker is a split card, it will be another joker.

Photos will be uploaded when I get home.

---

Also played a game called Royal Hunt video poker for nickels at Resorts. A triple play 15+15 credit game. Anytime you get a 2, 3, or 4 card royal, you get 6 bonus hands to draw (you can hold different cards in the main game such as a high pair, but the bonus hands will always hold the royal draw). Reminds me of Extra Action video poker.

---

Did not play Triple Wheel Poker because it looked boring.

Quote: tringlomane

I don't see how the paytable percentages of nearly every game can match up with its standard poker paytable equivalent. That has to be the biggest streak of coincidence if true.

I guess they tweak the Split Card appearance frequency to make the game pay the same as the standard paytable? That's the only explanation I can think of, other than the possibility that our kind host simply got incorrect numbers from IGT, the five-coin payback percentage instead of the ten-coin.

I found this over the weekend at the new HR casino in AC. It's a 9/6 JOB machine at quarters, when played 5-play. If nothing else, it might be a +EV game for the slot club, because the other paytables are 8/6 for 1/3 hand games.

I was playing basic JOB strategy, factoring in the best hand out of 6 cards when I had a split card on the deal, and managed to hold on OK. I'd love to know if there's a strategy for it.

Looks like a cool game!