Fraudulent payout?
I have a situation that happen to me and was seeing if anyone can help. So about two weeks ago my buddy and I was at harrahs New Orleans gambling. He was playing video poker by a bar that had built in machine on the counters. He inserted $20 bucks played max credit ($1.25) a few times and hit the jackpot of $1005.xx. We both waited about 15-20 minutes until the attendant came and paid him out In cash then we went on with our business. Before leaving the bar counter we order a few shots for the friends that was there also, my friend gave me about $10-20 bucks to tip the bartender. Great way to end the night right? Ok fast forward this this past weekend. I came back to harrahs New Orleans and play my normal game blackjack, after a few hours I won a couple hundred. Proceeded to the cashier and cash out my chips then all of sudden 3-4 employees told me I had to go with them they had a few questions to ask me. They interrogated for me 45 minutes demanding me to payback the $1005.xx that my friend won the previous week. They are saying that it was a fraudulent payout and he wasn't suppose to get paid. Are you kidding me?! How is that possibly? Why am I involved if you ask me, here it is. The casino said that my friend gave me half of the winnings, which is a lie. He gave me $10-20 and I tipped the bartender. So head of security 86ed me and my friend from all harrahs properties and demanded to get back the $1005.xx. We are innocent and didn't do anything wrong. I went and did my own investigation and contacted the bartender that worked at the time of the payout my friend won. His story is that my friend won legitimately and what happen was someone else came like 20-30 minutes later and claim the same jackpot. The attendant did not reset the machine after paying my friend out so the credit was still active waiting to be paid out with the blue screen that says "jack pot win".
So I contacted the head of security for harrahs again today and told what I found out within my sources and he was shocked. I told him if you are accusing me of getting half of the winnings or a large sum amount money from my friend, please show me the evidence (video) and I'll gladly pay you guys back. He wouldn't budge because they know they are lying about that. So then I proceeded to tell him what actually happen that night which he thought I would never find out. ( story from the bartender) He got real quiet and not aggressive a** he was before. He still was saying that my friend have to pay it back and it was fraudulent and ask me if he could call me back in 15 minutes. Which he never did, it been 5 hours. What should we do? Legal service? They are making us criminals and we are not.
http://lgcb.dps.louisiana.gov/
I guess you could call a lawyer; maybe some will say that is a better first step. I guess my thinking is you should get a complaint on the record.
Quote: GWAEIf the machine was not reset then how did he get the rest of the credits off of the machine?
Quote: FrudaceI believe it was still pending to be paid out. So whoever came up next just press the service button and say hey! I won. Can I get paid for this.
That would mean that your friend's original stake was still on the machine. Maybe that wasn't much money compared to $1005, but it's unusual for a player to leave without remembering to cash out that amount...
Quote: rdw4potusThat would mean that your friend's original stake was still on the machine. Maybe that wasn't much money compared to $1005, but it's unusual for a player to leave without remembering to cash out that amount...
He only put $20 bucks in and play three max spin which is $15 bucks. The jackpot was at $1000. His original stake was maybe $5 bucks at max. He probably didn't even care for it. Just suck we just into this mess over this. Ridiculous!
Quote: rdw4potusThat would mean that your friend's original stake was still on the machine. Maybe that wasn't much money compared to $1005, but it's unusual for a player to leave without remembering to cash out that amount...
I don't think it's that unusual. I've almost forgotten to cash out several times after hitting a jackpot. The slot attendants almost always tell me, "Remember, you still have some credits on the machine."
Why would you offer to pay anything back? If your friend legitimately hit the original jackpot, why would it matter how much he gave you?Quote: Frudace
I told him if you are accusing me of getting half of the winnings or a large sum amount money from my friend, please show me the evidence (video) and I'll gladly pay you guys back..
You shouldn't have said anything like that. But since you went down that road, you should've said, you're friend was the one who hit the original, legitimate jackpot, and you only received $20 to tip in his behalf. If they can prove he didn't hit the original jackpot, you'll gladly give the casino his information, because what you witnessed WAS 100% legitimate. I'm not suggesting you be a rat, but if somehow he was up to something, that you missed. I would be upset he got you involved in something sketchy without your knowledge.
There should be a computer time log on the jackpot. There should be 2 jackpot slips from 2 different employees(one for each jackpot) that include the times. It should show the 2nd jackpot being paid after you left. I would mention to them they may want to investigate both employees. One or both may be cheating the casino. Perhaps someone was trying to cover their ass and fudged the times on the jackpot slips, making it look like you guys were the 2nd jackpot claimers.
I would assume the computer generates the jackpot slip. I'm not sure if they can just edit times or what system they have. If I were you, I would find out.
2 employees usually have to verify jackpots before payment is made and then watch that the proper amount is given. Oftentimes the 2nd person just assumes it's right. 99% of the time everyone assumes the machine is accurate. Did you notice how this process works there? Sometimes it can be any 2nd employee Bartender, supervisor, change person(almost extinct) other floor person(usually the case) security, cocktail waitresses(not usually).
I'm surprised no one noticed noticed it wasn't reset. It's possible the machines key reset function may be malfunctioning.
Drich should have a better Idea how this could've happen.
I would name names of the people involved. Especially the guy you talked to on the phone or whatever.
PS. What exactly did he hit, im surprised you left that detail out.
I agree, especially since people are usually excited about hitting a jackpot.Quote: RSI don't think it's that unusual. I've almost forgotten to cash out several times after hitting a jackpot. The slot attendants almost always tell me, "Remember, you still have some credits on the machine."
But the fact that they hung out, ordered a few drinks and tipped makes it even more strange.
Quote: AxelWolfI agree, especially since people are usually excited about hitting a jackpot.
But the fact that they hung out, ordered a few drinks and tipped makes it even more strange.
Actually I was already in the process of ordering shots before he got paid out. We left after that and didn't hang out by that area.
Quote: AxelWolfWhy would you offer to pay anything back? If your friend legitimately hit the original jackpot, why would it matter how much he gave you?
You shouldn't have said anything like that. But since you went down that road, you should've said, you're friend was the one who hit the original, legitimate jackpot, and you only received $20 to tip in his behalf. If they can prove he didn't hit the original jackpot, you'll gladly give the casino his information, because what you witnessed WAS 100% legitimate. I'm not suggesting you be a rat, but if somehow he was up to something, that you missed. I would be upset he got you involved in something sketchy without your knowledge.
There should be a computer time log on the jackpot. There should be 2 jackpot slips from 2 different employees(one for each jackpot) that include the times. It should show the 2nd jackpot being paid after you left. I would mention to them they may want to investigate both employees. One or both may be cheating the casino. Perhaps someone was trying to cover their ass and fudged the times on the jackpot slips, making it look like you guys were the 2nd jackpot claimers.
I would assume the computer generates the jackpot slip. I'm not sure if they can just edit times or what system they have. If I were you, I would find out.
2 employees usually have to verify jackpots before payment is made and then watch that the proper amount is given. Oftentimes the 2nd person just assumes it's right. 99% of the time everyone assumes the machine is accurate. Did you notice how this process works there? Sometimes it can be any 2nd employee Bartender, supervisor, change person(almost extinct) other floor person(usually the case) security, cocktail waitresses(not usually).
I'm surprised no one noticed noticed it wasn't reset. It's possible the machines key reset function may be malfunctioning.
Drich should have a better Idea how this could've happen.
I would name names of the people involved. Especially the guy you talked to on the phone or whatever.
PS. What exactly did he hit, im surprised you left that detail out.
When I said I would gladly pay them back is when they accuse me of accepting half of the winnings which did not happen. So I put them on the spot, show me the evidence that I receive that much sum of money I'll pay it back. They have nothing to show guaranteed.
And the process of being paid out was the attendant and his/her supervisor also there to make sure everything was legit and accurate. right now I'm thinking they trying to recover their loss because I'm not sure what happen on their end when they make a mistake like this and payout out two times. They might be on the hook and have to pony up the $$ themselves.
My friend hit a royal flush hearts.
If a supervisor was present at the time then I would find out who they were and ask some questions.Quote: FrudaceWhen I said I would gladly pay them back is when they accuse me of accepting half of the winnings which did not happen. So I put them on the spot, show me the evidence that I receive that much sum of money I'll pay it back. They have nothing to show guaranteed.
And the process of being paid out was the attendant and his/her supervisor also there to make sure everything was legit and accurate. right now I'm thinking they trying to recover their loss because I'm not sure what happen on their end when they make a mistake like this and payout out two times. They might be on the hook and have to pony up the $$ themselves.
My friend hit a royal flush hearts.
Did you contact gaming? This is serious matter since they accused you guys of taking something that you weren't entitled to. I would insist they clear my name.
There has to be paperwork and possibility video. The video doesn't have to show you guys at the machine. It just has to show that you weren't there or had already left when they payed the other person. The times on the jackpot slips should help prove that, unless they falsified the times.
It's mind boggling as to why they believe it was you guys that double claimed the jackpot.
How did they recognize you when you returned? I assume video? If so, they should be able to rule you guys out with a timeline.
What about the statement from the bartender? That should be good enough. Someone should remember paying the other person.
I would demand an investigation and contact gaming.
The casino should retain video footage of this jackpot due to their concerns of it being fraudulent, but do not expect them to show you this unless the issue goes to court.
Now it may be that they ran their reports and found out the machine was malfunctioning in which case they would claim this as a fraudulent jackpot but that really should have been known at the time of the payout and I doubt this is the case here.
As others have suggested, a visit/call to the gaming commission would be a good idea.
Quote: RSI don't know what kind of slips and stuff are generated when non-W2G jackpots are hit (ie: $1,000). The machine locks up and requires a hand-pay, but does not require a W2G. I suspect there'll be no "paper-trail" related to this jackpot.
You are correct. My friend receive no paper work. He just sign off on the payout.
Quote: AxelWolfIf a supervisor was present at the time then I would find out who they were and ask some questions.
Did you contact gaming? This is serious matter since they accused you guys of taking something that you weren't entitled to. I would insist they clear my name.
There has to be paperwork and possibility video. The video doesn't have to show you guys at the machine. It just has to show that you weren't there or had already left when they payed the other person. The times on the jackpot slips should help prove that, unless they falsified the times.
It's mind boggling as to why they believe it was you guys that double claimed the jackpot.
How did they recognize you when you returned? I assume video? If so, they should be able to rule you guys out with a timeline.
What about the statement from the bartender? That should be good enough. Someone should remember paying the other person.
I would demand an investigation and contact gaming.
I will contact gaming tomorrow about this.
They have all video but will not show any of it to us. The way they recognize us was because I'm a regular there and workers know me by name. they look it up that way and when I came back the following week, i gave the floor pit my reward card to accumulate points so I guessing that what alerted them that I was back in the casino. They probably do not no my friend or the other person that claim the 2nd payout. So they went after me thinking I wouldn't find out what actually happen.
When I called back and told the head of security guy about what I found out with my own investigation. He will shock, wasn't aggressive as before but still pushing that we still guilty of the payout then told me give him 15 minutes and he will call me back. He did not call back, I called back the following day. Left voicemail, didn't return a call. This is very strange and fishy. I believe I caught them in a lie.
