Determining EV with matching card

I play a 8/5 JoB game, this should be an EV 97.29% game. There are five (5) cent and 25 cent machines. You can play 1, 3, 5, or 20 coins. The 5 & 20 coin have the RF bonus. There is a double double bonus game which has a higher EV but is a $1 which I choose not to play at this time.

Here is what I can't figure into the EV. The machine draws an extra card, I don't believe this card is from the playing deck, I assume it is a random card from a different deck. Matching this card can have a return of 1 - 5 times the wager regardless of the number of coins played. There is no extra cost to play this matching card.

I've done a search but can only find bonus games that have a bonus that is played in a different manner. I've only played this machine a couple of times for short periods and can't provide exact information how often this matching card shows up.

I've enjoyed finding this site, very information.

Quote: dbikingmann

I play a 8/5 JoB game, this should be an EV 97.29% game. There are five (5) cent and 25 cent machines. You can play 1, 3, 5, or 20 coins. The 5 & 20 coin have the RF bonus. There is a double double bonus game which has a higher EV but is a $1 which I choose not to play at this time.

Here is what I can't figure into the EV. The machine draws an extra card, I don't believe this card is from the playing deck, I assume it is a random card from a different deck. Matching this card can have a return of 1 - 5 times the wager regardless of the number of coins played. There is no extra cost to play this matching card.

I've done a search but can only find bonus games that have a bonus that is played in a different manner. I've only played this machine a couple of times for short periods and can't provide exact information how often this matching card shows up.

I've enjoyed finding this site, very information.

Sounds like a class ii machine. What state are you in?

It sounds like a Class II machine. Check to see if there is a bingo card anywhere on the screen, or if bingo is mentioned in the help screens. If so, it's not a true video poker machine. The bingo card/game determines the outcome, the rest is just for show. The match card "feature" merely ensures that you are paid the predetermined bingo prize regardless of which cards you hold or discard. There is no strategy involved if it is Class II, because you're actually playing bingo disguised as something else.

Quote: JB

It sounds like a Class II machine. Check to see if there is a bingo card anywhere on the screen, or if bingo is mentioned in the help screens. If so, it's not a true video poker machine. The bingo card/game determines the outcome, the rest is just for show. The match card "feature" merely ensures that you are paid the predetermined bingo prize regardless of which cards you hold or discard. There is no strategy involved if it is Class II, because you're actually playing bingo disguised as something else.

I don't see a bingo sticker on it. Thanks for the info, that will require another trip to the casino.

I have a photo of the front of the machine and read it more closely reference the 'matching card'. It says it could pay up to the royal flush amount.

For what it is worth this is an Indian Casino, which based on I'm reading here can be different than expected. This Casino only offers a few video poker machines. It does offer tables games and Type III slot machines. If this machine isn't a Type III machine, I'll be disapppointed.

Quote: dbikingmann

I don't see a bingo sticker on it. Thanks for the info, that will require another trip to the casino.

I have a photo of the front of the machine and read it more closely reference the 'matching card'. It says it could pay up to the royal flush amount.

For what it is worth this is an Indian Casino, which based on I'm reading here can be different than expected. This Casino only offers a few video poker machines. It does offer tables games and Type III slot machines. If this machine isn't a Type III machine, I'll be disapppointed.

There's a 99.54% chance you're going to be disappointed.

What's the paytable?

Quote: dbikingmann

It says it could pay up to the royal flush amount.

Definitely sounds like Class II. If the bingo outcome awards the prize corresponding to a royal flush, and you are dealt a royal flush but discard it, the match card mechanism "saves" you by awarding you the prize that the bingo game outcome determined.

Quote: dbikingmann

If this machine isn't a Type III machine, I'll be disapppointed.

If the machine is Class III, there would be no need for a match card feature.

It might also be a pull-tab game, which is also Class II and works just like the bingo version, except the prize is determined by opening a virtual pull-tab ticket from the central server instead of playing a virtual bingo game. With no bingo card in sight, there would be even less of an indication that the game is not real video poker. The help screens should tell all.

The match card feature definitely tells e it isn't a Class III slot. I believe SDG/Bally was the first to use this method to return wins the players forfeited by playing incorrectly.

Try throwing away a winning hand and see if the match card always gives you a winner on the winning hands you discarded. That will tell you for sure.

If you're in Washington state tribal casinos or New York lottery locations, the video poker games are based on video pull-tab technology where winners and losers are delivered from a finite pool of game outcomes to the game terminal and your outcome is predetermined as soon as you play. There is no way to determine the EV just by looking at the paytable. The contents of the finite pool are drawn down and then replenished, just like paper pull-tabs or scratch tickets at a convenience store.

In other words, when you're playing video poker on a video pull-tab machine, you're not playing with a full deck. :)

Point of clarification: video pull-tab games are class III, not class II:
"electronic facsimiles of games of chance — like video pull-tabs — are class III games" Cabazon v. NIGA, 827 F.Supp. 26, 33 (D.D.C. 1993)

Quote: dbikingmann

I don't see a bingo sticker on it.

Check the help screens, too. I have often found that the help screens show some difference on "regular" vs "Class II" machines.

Just a wild guess, but I think there's a pretty good chance you're talking about the video poker machines in the new non-smoking area of the Nisqually Red Wind. Like almost all video poker in the state of Washington, they're electronic pull tabs. Discard whatever, keep whatever, it makes no difference.

I tested this a few weeks ago: I put $10 in, played a few hands of "Deuces Wild", and was dealt 8-2-8-7-4. The machine suggested I hold the 8-2-8, of course. I discarded all five cards, pretty sure it would make no difference. I got dealt 8-J-2-J-J. I quit; that was confirmation enough for me. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXYP3Fprdtc

Quote: travisl

Just a wild guess, but I think there's a pretty good chance you're talking about the video poker machines in the new non-smoking area of the Nisqually Red Wind. Like almost all video poker in the state of Washington, they're electronic pull tabs. Discard whatever, keep whatever, it makes no difference.

I tested this a few weeks ago: I put $10 in, played a few hands of "Deuces Wild", and was dealt 8-2-8-7-4. The machine suggested I hold the 8-2-8, of course. I discarded all five cards, pretty sure it would make no difference. I got dealt 8-J-2-J-J. I quit; that was confirmation enough for me. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXYP3Fprdtc

You took the wrong video though. You should have held all the cards and hope to make the "Genie" appear. lol I think IGT uses genies anyway.

IGT also does make a Class III game with a "match card" feature. The Wizard wrote about that game.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/match-card/