If you only play the best paytables, won't the casino know that you are AP?

Like in blackjack some people say to stay away from the S17 DD game. Is the same true for VP?

Quote: Avincow

Like in blackjack some people say to stay away from the S17 DD game.

That's my thinking, espically CET and the MLife chains. Most pros won't even play H17 DD.

Machines aren't programmed to call a skills check on you.

Quote: Avincow

Like in blackjack some people say to stay away from the S17 DD game. Is the same true for VP?

Yes its possible but far less likely. Some casinos have no mailed players for only playing good machines. Casinos have 86ed many VP pros.

There's not much you can do about it because playing inferior paytables can be costly.

Easiest way not to be identified as a strong player is to not play a strong game. Of course you probably want to play a strong game though. Use judgment/don't be reckless but the occasional restriction is just part of playing with an edge.

Not necessarily. The best paytables tend to have a higher denomination required.

I say -- it depends. Some places you can find several paytables for several different denominations. Other places, the higher the denomination the better the paytable, and the lower the denomination the worse the paytable.

The other thing is -- are you playing a paytable that's +EV off the top? Like full pay DB or DW that're slightly +EV playing straight up. Or playing games like 9/6 JOB or even 8/5 BP that are still -EV playing straight up.

Or are you only playing those games on certain (point multiplier) days? Like the 7x points days [or w/e it is] at some Boyd casinos on their 99.64% return 9/6 BPD....or the 9/6 DDB w/QQ at South Point.....etc.

Some casinos have a bunch of 8/5 JOB....but then there'll be one machine in the corner that's like 9/6/90 JOB so they can promote they have a 99.9% return game.


OR are you just playing the best games and getting freeplay back and going that route?


Same with table games. Kind of. If there are both H17 and S17 tables at the same level [which is generally unlikely], then only playing S17 might let them "know" you're an AP. But oftentimes enough, the best $5 game is a 6:5, then $15 game is 8D H17 nDAS etc, then the $25 DD H17, then $100 DD S17 RSA LS etc. So, it's not like you really have an option [well, yes you do, but at the same time, not really] as to what game you play. You're not going to be a green chipper at the shtty $5 6:5 game....you're more likely to be playing the $100 game.

Like in blackjack, once you get good, you have to learn camoflauge and use different strategies to keep playing profitably.

It would be interesting to hear from veteran VP players if they've done anything to keep from being no-mailed, 86'd, or denied comps. Although I can't think of much- the machines track your profit and loss and coin-in. Most casino managers should know to look for high coin-in players with low losses(or gains), and realize they aren't making money off of those people.

Quote: Gabes22

Not necessarily. The best paytables tend to have a higher denomination required.

Pure, unadulterated hogwash. Fpdw has the best paytable ,and you won't find it above 25c.

True, you will find some really bad paytable at 5c and below. But also at $1 and up.

Yet, some casinos do offer over 100% paytables at 50c and dollar. These are the more complicated strategy, higher variance games like ddb and db. Which means more mistakes are made and often negative ev for the player as a result.

I always wondered about VP too - is there any way, even if a manager wanted, to see how you're playing? Or are the net results all they can see?

Because if all they can see are the results, won't they have to wait for thousands of hands to ascertain whether you're an AP or not?

Quote: malgorium

I always wondered about VP too - is there any way, even if a manager wanted, to see how you're playing? Or are the net results all they can see?

Because if all they can see are the results, won't they have to wait for thousands of hands to ascertain whether you're an AP or not?

Maybe the surveillance guy inputs the player's bets into a computer to see if the bet spread correlates with the count.

Quote: Avincow

Maybe the surveillance guy inputs the player's bets into a computer to see if the bet spread correlates with the count.

Not sure if I should facepalm or chuckle.

I swear those damn VP machines are rigged. No matter how high the count gets, I just keep losing and losing! Plus, I haven't even hit a blackjack yet -- do you think it's possible for them to shuffle the video poker cards in a way so the player will never get a blackjack? Grrr!!

And the one royal flush I hit....the count was at MINUS EIGHTY SEVEN (-87)!!!!!! I'm very skeptical!! Be careful.

Quote: RS

I swear those damn VP machines are rigged. No matter how high the count gets, I just keep losing and losing!

You should know as well as I do that you can't win 'em all, unless you're on the flat side of the table.

There is no table in video poker.

IMO- counting VP is a waste of time, especially if wild cards are involved.

Quote: Bigfshead

Pure, unadulterated hogwash. Fpdw has the best paytable ,and you won't find it above 25c...

Forgive my VP/Slot ignorance... but what is Fpdw?

edit - After a little thought I'm figuring it's Full Pay Deuces Wild. Can anyone point to the Wizard Page(s) where he comments what games and necessary pay tables make a VP game +EV?

Quote: Romes

Can anyone point to the Wizard Page(s) where he comments what games and necessary pay tables make a VP game +EV?

I don't know if there's a particular list of +EV games. What I suggest you do is, go to this page and select a game; the pay tables where the return value on the "Total" line > 1 are the +EV games.

Most, if not all, pay tables also have the return (expressed as a percentage) in the table header; the ones with > 100% are +EV.

Quote: Gabes22

Not necessarily. The best paytables tend to have a higher denomination required.

Some places the best pay tables are at $5 and up. But they are almost always still -EV. The machines that pay back over 100% with perfect strategy are almost always at 25-cents. At a 1% edge and 500 hands per hour, only $6.25 per hour

Very few will use perfect strategy. Some will also play other games that wipe out any edge they might have on those machines. Many will buy meals or bring spouses that brings in money

Progressives are a little different. . .