Buzzard
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August 28th, 2014 at 8:22:46 PM permalink
" Louis L'Amour was an editor's nightmare but he's sold about 300 million books. " I have read them all too many times to count.
He sure as hell made history and the rule of law interesting !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Buzzard
Buzzard
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August 28th, 2014 at 8:26:11 PM permalink
" Well, mickey baby, you've been suspended at least once that I saw " You say that like it's a bad thing. So easy to be a bully on the internet. If you said mickey baby to his face, you'd be on your ass pretty soon !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Eaglesnest
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August 28th, 2014 at 8:26:45 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" Louis L'Amour was an editor's nightmare but he's sold about 300 million books. " I have read them all too many times to count.
He sure as hell made history and the rule of law interesting !



I dropped the first book I read of his like a hot potato after I saw his third gross historical inaccuracy in the first fifty pages. He's the Dan Brown of the 19th century American West. But yea verily, his books do sell. After all, not only don't people learn to read and write in high school, they sleep through history class.
Eaglesnest
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August 28th, 2014 at 8:32:02 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" Well, mickey baby, you've been suspended at least once that I saw " You say that like it's a bad thing. So easy to be a bully on the internet. If you said mickey baby to his face, you'd be on your ass pretty soon !



If people said any of the things they've said to me here to my face, the same fate would await them. In fact, I got accused of being a criminal and a tax cheat practically the first day I was here. The moderator didn't do anything--except sanction ME for reacting to being called a criminal! If calling someone "baby" might provoke a reaction, well, calling me a criminal--as well as all the other shit that's been flung in my direction--might provoke a reaction orders of magnitude greater. Seriously, would ANYONE think that calling someone you've never met a tax cheat and criminal is acceptable in the real world? Do YOU?
AxelWolf
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August 28th, 2014 at 10:59:28 PM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Well, indifference to spelling, grammar, and punctuation can cause misunderstandings, often serious ones. Add or drop a comma and you change the entire meaning of a sentence. In the "good old days," a person wouldn't have made it out of grammar school without being able to construct an English sentence. Nowadays, bad or even horrible writing is largely excused, even though those misunderstandings still persist.

Al and AxelWolf may be great gamblers, but when they post on internet boards, they're writers. If they construct bad sentences, they're failing at that task. In fact, Axel's bad grammar has made me misconstrue what he's said a number of times in the short time I've been here. Since it undoubtedly takes a formidable intellect and a great deal of effort to be a successful gambler/AP, would it be all that hard for such a person to learn to write coherently? That's what the videopoker.com denizens were probably thinking. Like it or not, even in this internet/social media world, how you write and speak connotes your intelligence, authority, and authenticity.

Quote: Eaglesnest

made me misconstrue what he's said

Anything of importance, to make you get personal, like I pointed out? Show me.

No doubt you may win the internet board writers award. That and 10 cents won't get you a pone call.

I thought you were here for this.
Quote: Eaglesnest

Hello all, I have a rather complicated question. After several months in the hospital and losing my job to boot, my bankroll is down to about 8K. I would like to boost it up to 20K or more by coming to Vegas and grinding out some AP play. I am very experienced in VP and live poker and am willing to put in long hours. I am fairly risk-averse in this context, but it would not be a disaster if I busted out. I am considering four basic strategies:

1. Play +EV VP, with the idea of playing inherently positive games and/or negative games that get boosted significantly over 100% by promos (I'm over 50 so I'm eligible for those deals). I would stay in cheap hotel rooms rather than getting an apartment, and would expect that my play would get me decent room discounts at least.

2. Play widely scattered +EV VP as well as some minimally negative (< -0.5%) plays in order to be eligible for mailers. In this scenario, I either get a local PO box (since I assume that what kind of offers you get depends on your mailing address zip code) or just rent a cheapo apartment.

3. Concentrate on live poker, milking promos such as freerolls, etc., mostly in the locals' rooms.

4. Concentrate on live poker, playing marathons on weekends at the Strip rooms when the tourists hit town.

Just about all types of promos would be valuable to me, with the exception of drawings (I'm never able to be in the right place at the right time). Even lowly "free buffet when you earn 300 points" offers are worthwhile. Basically, I would like to earn at whatever rate my play can afford and use the perks from that play to offset at least part of my overhead (food, rooms).

So which course of action do you think would work best, including "don't do it"? I have put in thousands of hours at VP and live poker in the past, so I know about all the ups and downs. I would like to make about 2K a month after expenses--is this doable within the context of a low RoR? For instance, I believe $8K gives you about a 1% RoR if you play FPDW (no slot club benefits), but the earn rate is slow--less than $8/hr at 800 hph. That would equate to 250 hours a month--no way I could do that.

Any thoughts from EXPERIENCED players would be welcome (it appears, from skimming these threads, that there are many such people here). Thanks!



I'm sure you will tell us you suddenly found the keys and people are knocking down your door.

Good Luck.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
mickeycrimm
mickeycrimm
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August 28th, 2014 at 11:05:26 PM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Well, according to mickeycrimm, they are, and he's never wrong; just ask him. And I believe you're overthinking when you try to parse out my deep psychological motivations for mentioning the moderator. I am simply trying to get people off my back. Call that "passive-aggressive" if you wish, but it's actually an appeal to common decency (an oxymoronic term when referring to the internet).



You fired the first insults in this thread and you've done it in all but one post since. If you want civility then why don't you lead by example. But then, you can't quit, can you? Because you are not interested in civility. You are just trolling here.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
mickeycrimm
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August 28th, 2014 at 11:10:45 PM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Well, indifference to spelling, grammar, and punctuation can cause misunderstandings, often serious ones. Add or drop a comma and you change the entire meaning of a sentence. In the "good old days," a person wouldn't have made it out of grammar school without being able to construct an English sentence. Nowadays, bad or even horrible writing is largely excused, even though those misunderstandings still persist.

Al and AxelWolf may be great gamblers, but when they post on internet boards, they're writers. If they construct bad sentences, they're failing at that task. In fact, Axel's bad grammar has made me misconstrue what he's said a number of times in the short time I've been here. Since it undoubtedly takes a formidable intellect and a great deal of effort to be a successful gambler/AP, would it be all that hard for such a person to learn to write coherently? That's what the videopoker.com denizens were probably thinking. Like it or not, even in this internet/social media world, how you write and speak connotes your intelligence, authority, and authenticity.



Just another routine example of someone who can't see the forest for the tree's.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:00:18 AM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

Just another routine example of someone who can't see the forest for the tree's.



For the tree's what, mickey? And to which tree are you referring?
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:07:07 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Anything of importance, to make you get personal, like I pointed out? Show me.

No doubt you may win the internet board writers award. That and 10 cents won't get you a pone call.

I thought you were here for this.

I'm sure you will tell us you suddenly found the keys and people are knocking down your door.

Good Luck.



Well, I didn't receive any constructive answers, so I abandoned the inquiry. People showed an almost comical misunderstanding of my goals, methods, and objectives. There aren't very many reasonably bright people here--I had thought there might be. That was my mistake.

Whatever I might tell you (plural), I would just receive flaming and insults and be called an idiot and a liar. I've finally figured out that doing that is the ONLY reason you're here. You haven't offered a nickel's worth of constructive advice to anyone, myself included--much of what you've said is worthless or outright incorrect. I don't even believe you're an AP--just a wannabe and a poseur. A true AP would be able to describe what he does in reasonably coherent language.
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:12:10 AM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

You fired the first insults in this thread and you've done it in all but one post since. If you want civility then why don't you lead by example. But then, you can't quit, can you? Because you are not interested in civility. You are just trolling here.



Eliciting responses from someone like you is just about the last thing I would ever want to do. I would have been thrilled had you just kept a sock in it and harassed someone else instead. Something I said--I don't even know what--hit some kind of nerve with you and you came in from left field, screaming and waving your arms, face purple.

I've remarked elsewhere that someone's internet persona is not necessarily a reflection of their true self. In your case, however, I think that your internet persona is a 100 percent genuine representation of how you are in real life. And that's so sad!
AxelWolf
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:17:45 AM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Well, I didn't receive any constructive answers, so I abandoned the inquiry. People showed an almost comical misunderstanding of my goals, methods, and objectives. There aren't very many reasonably bright people here--I had thought there might be. That was my mistake.

Whatever I might tell you (plural), I would just receive flaming and insults and be called an idiot and a liar. I've finally figured out that doing that is the ONLY reason you're here. You haven't offered a nickel's worth of constructive advice to anyone, myself included--much of what you've said is worthless or outright incorrect. I don't even believe you're an AP--just a wannabe and a poseur. A true AP would be able to describe what he does in reasonably coherent language.

Your back to the personal insults . Yet noting I have said to you comes close to the insulting things you say to me. What you believe is meaningless in that regards. Many credible people can confirm I am or do what I say.


care to put your 8k bankroll on it? I can have mine in escrow with a trusted member ASAP.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:18:55 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Your back to the personal insults . Yet noting I have said to you comes close. What you believe is meaningless in tat regards. Many credible people can confirm I am or do what I say.


care to put your 8k bankroll on it? I can have mine in escrow with a trusted member ASAP.



No, let's just whip out our penises and wave them around. After we do that, I still won't believe you, though.
mickeycrimm
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August 29th, 2014 at 1:22:36 AM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

I dropped the first book I read of his like a hot potato after I saw his third gross historical inaccuracy in the first fifty pages. He's the Dan Brown of the 19th century American West. But yea verily, his books do sell. After all, not only don't people learn to read and write in high school, they sleep through history class.



Just another typical example of trolling. That's all you are doing here, big fella. Trolling.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
mickeycrimm
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August 29th, 2014 at 1:27:33 AM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Eliciting responses from someone like you is just about the last thing I would ever want to do. I would have been thrilled had you just kept a sock in it and harassed someone else instead. Something I said--I don't even know what--hit some kind of nerve with you and you came in from left field, screaming and waving your arms, face purple.

I've remarked elsewhere that someone's internet persona is not necessarily a reflection of their true self. In your case, however, I think that your internet persona is a 100 percent genuine representation of how you are in real life. And that's so sad!



More typical troll drivel.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
AxelWolf
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August 29th, 2014 at 1:46:34 AM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

No, let's just whip out our penises and wave them around. After we do that, I still won't believe you, though.

LOL

From that last comment it Sounds like you admit, I would win the penis contest. I totally understand why.

You raised the stakes, I called your bluff.

It's like you calling me names, calling me outside to fight and when I get there, you run away with more name calling.

You're upset I disagree with you on a few things, so you try to discredit me in anyway you can think of?

What, you think I'm going to go off the rails? You are obviously trying to bait me.

It must be hard to be so well written yet need to seek advice and help from others about how to make AP money. It must really, really be hard that you had to ask someone with my writing ability for help.

I never need to ask advice. I may need some interesting math done or something.

No one had any good advice, you say? They tried with Skyline as a start. Anyone with great advice isn't just going to give a new member great plays. They might want to see how someone conducts themselves first. How'ed you do?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ajemeister
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August 29th, 2014 at 6:44:10 AM permalink
attention everyone in this thread... I'm sorry for opening up this can of worms. I really do think it would be for the best if a mod were able to close this thread before the mud slinging gets out of hand :(
beachbumbabs
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August 29th, 2014 at 7:04:59 AM permalink
Naw. I think it's about over, and everybody's settling down. Kind of typical new-guy pecking-order stuff, with everybody being a bit rude in all directions. So I'm not going to close it, but it would be nice to get back to your question.

My personal experience has been that I get the same rank back for my discard way more often than I think I should, and more often than not, it seems to be the same color as the discard. But I seldom, if ever, have seen the same exact card return.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
mickeycrimm
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August 29th, 2014 at 8:24:26 AM permalink
Quote: ajemeister

attention everyone in this thread... I'm sorry for opening up this can of worms. I really do think it would be for the best if a mod were able to close this thread before the mud slinging gets out of hand :(



Ah, yes. The OP's question. I had totally forgotten. I have experienced the same phenomenan as you. I chalked it up to my eyes playing tricks on me. The hand is quicker than the eye. My cruising speed is about 1000 HPH. At that speed your eyes can play tricks on you if you are not careful. I once held a pair of tens and hit the draw button just in time to see the Ace-Queen-Ten of Hearts in the hand. To late. Then here came the King-Jack of Hearts on the draw. I probably wouldn't have hit the royal had I made the correct hold because punching in a different hold I probably wouldn't have hit the draw button at the exact same milisecond, but still it is irritating as hell when it happens.

There is one thing you can do to verify that your eyes were just playing tricks on you. You can stop and get a slot tech, if he will cooperate, to roll the hand back and see whether you discarded the 4 of Spades or the 4 of Clubs. And the slot tech is pretty much going to show you that you threw away the 4 of Clubs.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 10:07:57 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Naw. I think it's about over, and everybody's settling down. Kind of typical new-guy pecking-order stuff, with everybody being a bit rude in all directions. So I'm not going to close it, but it would be nice to get back to your question.

My personal experience has been that I get the same rank back for my discard way more often than I think I should, and more often than not, it seems to be the same color as the discard. But I seldom, if ever, have seen the same exact card return.



The question has already been dealt with in what I fear is typical fashion for this board. The entrenched cognoscenti are certain that the OP is out of his gourd and is most likely falling victim to selective memory. I alone have afforded him the benefit of the doubt, for reasons I've detailed above.

That slot and VP manufacturers will alter how a losing result is presented is beyond doubt. The greater question of whether casinos in general cheat has also been answered beyond doubt. So we should all be wary--but piling onto someone who suggests things might not be on the up-and-up, as happened to the OP and then to me when I supported his suspicions, doesn't exactly help. The OP came here for advice and got treated as if he was a fool. Nobody but me took what he said the least bit seriously.

Quite frankly, I actually think that selective memory probably WAS in play here. But automatically lifting your legs and peeing on anyone who reports suspecting casino cheating will certainly discourage information-sharing in the future and make it that much easier for casinos to cheat without fear of consequences.
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 10:14:56 AM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

More typical troll drivel.



Say it eleven more times, mickey. Trolling. Trolling. Trolling. AWWWWWWWK! Trolling trolling trolling trolling trolling. Polly wants a cracker.

It's a pretty tired cliché to accuse anyone with whom you're having an internet argument of trolling. You're not as original as I would expect someone haunting the glittering casinos of Butte, Glendive, and Dillon to be. Of course, part of what's going on here is that many, many times, you've gone into one of these twenty-machine mom-and-pop dust joints and observed something that was too good to be true, but played it anyway--and paid the price. You felt foolish, that you had been "played," and so you just chalked it up to variance rather than admit that. It's an ego thing--don't be ashamed of it, it happens to all of us at some point.
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 10:23:19 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I never need to ask advice.

No one had any good advice, you say? They tried with Skyline as a start.



It is breathtaking to contemplate the arrogance of someone who says he never needs advice. That statement alone does a perfect job of encapsulating your personality. I now have no doubt in my mind that you are NOT actually any kind of AP at all. A true AP would admit when he doesn't know something, and would seek out resources and--yes--advice. It's the only way an AP can survive; flying solo just doesn't work in the long run. You make too many mistakes (playing something that isn't as good as you think it is) and/or miss too many good plays.

I was already aware of where FPDW is available in Vegas. I know about VPFree2 and also have more up-to-date sources. So that poster's advice wasn't helpful, but I do appreciate him offering it, as he was trying to constructively answer my question--something no one else could bring their little internet selves to do.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 10:38:04 AM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

You are just trolling here.



Yup, that's obvious now.

I have to give credit to Axel for noticing this VERY early on. When I still thought that this guy was legit, Axel wrote something dismissive that I thought was kind of strange and uncalled for. But now I see.... I need to get better at reading people.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 10:40:43 AM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

I don't even believe you're an AP



lol. If you had any credibility left, this would have been the last of it...
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 10:45:25 AM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Yup, that's obvious now.

I have to give credit to Axel for noticing this VERY early on. When I still thought that this guy was legit, Axel wrote something dismissive that I thought was kind of strange and uncalled for. But now I see.... I need to get better at reading people.



You're STILL terrible at it. Whatever you consider being "legit," I'm not here for the purpose of starting arguments. (And by the way, you can't "read" anyone by what they post on an internet message board. That's why I continue to hold out the possibility that you may actually be quite tolerable in real life.)

Don't you realize how tired and silly it is to stick out your tongue and say, "You're a troll, nyahh, nyahh, nyahh" when you disagree with someone? You know, come to think of it, maybe you don't.

I would actually love to engage in serious discussions here, EVEN with you (despite your arrogance), EVEN with Axel (despite his kind of bizarre lack of reading and writing skills, and arrogance), and EVEN with mickeycr (ACK GAG CHOKE, sorry, can't go that far). I'm sure all of you have valuable information to share; now if you could just do it with a modicum of civility.
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 10:52:01 AM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

lol. If you had any credibility left, this would have been the last of it...



Nothing I've seen here so far has indicated any real knowledge of AP gambling on your part. You seem quite skilled at shouting people down. You DO have a major problem with criticizing things that weren't actually said and ad hominem attacks. You also quite often resort to cliché, stating the obvious, and ridicule as rhetorical tactics. None of that nonsense connotes credibility on your part, though you think it does. Your "credibility" hasn't been established by making thousands of posts on an obscure internet message board. It is obvious that being here affords you a measure of security and inflates your self-importance; this is "your" turf, as you see it. Dogpiling the newbie(s) helps you reinforce that delusion.
thecesspit
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August 29th, 2014 at 10:54:47 AM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

That slot and VP manufacturers will alter how a losing result is presented is beyond doubt.



It is? I still have my doubts it happens in VP on current machines. Meaning any machine made in the last 15 years, and that is a type III system.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:09:02 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

It is? I still have my doubts it happens in VP on current machines. Meaning any machine made in the last 15 years, and that is a type III system.



Well, I'm sure I'll be accused by Axel, Axiom, etc. of being a troll, and idiot, a delusional fool, and oh yeah, a tax cheat for saying this, but I continue to observe this phenomenon today (and some of the machines that continue to offer FP games are, in fact, over a decade old). It's not selective memory on my part, though I'm sure the internet sneerers are saying right now that it is. One thing I see a LOT--far more than random chance should produce--is when holding a ingle high card in any JOB/DB variant, and the end result is that you have three cards suited with that high card and one unsuited (for instance, hold the club Q and receive three more clubs and a heart), the "miss" card is more often than not dealt last (to give you the impression that you almost made a surprise flush from your four-card draw). Logically, this should happen one out of four times you wind up with such a (losing) hand, but my observation is that it happens more often than not. Again, I'm sure the various geniuses here are sneering, and I'm sure someone will demand footage from the helmet cam I wear during all my VP sessions as "proof," and when I don't provide, it, drop some internet poop on my head.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:11:33 AM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Nothing I've seen here so far has indicated any real knowledge of AP gambling on your part.



It doesn't matter what you have seen -- none of that changes what is true.

I'm not really an AP. More of a recreational gambler with a good job (and hence money to gamble at decent stakes) and enough knowledge of the gambling (and enough math degrees) to break even in the long term and take advantage of some very nice comps. I'm in it for the free vacations, drinks, meals at fancy restaurants, parties, clubs, pools, girls, etc, etc. It's a fun lifestyle. I will take an edge if I can get it but I'm not in it to grind away for a low hourly wage. It's important to me that I enjoy my time gambling. If I'd rather be sitting home playing video games, I'll sit home and play video games. I'd consider quitting my job and gambling full-time if I thought I could make a million a year, but I know that that is not going to happen. So I continue to be gainfully employed.

Axel is the real deal though, and several people on this forum know it and have first-hand knowledge, including me. You have to understand that a lot of people on this forum have met and gambled with him, and several are even pro AP's who work with/for him. So when you say that you do not believe that he is a real AP, a significant portion of the readers just chuckle and say "what an idiot", because they know for a fact that you are wrong. So, yeah, it destroys any credibility you had left (not that you had much left at that point anyway -- the ranting about how casinos all cheat and VP machines are gaffed had pretty much already destroyed that)
Boz
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:14:27 AM permalink
I'm just proud of myself that I am following what I told myself after my last suspension. After reading 18 pages of this it would be very easy for me to say what I think and end up on vacation. Good boy Boz!
texasplumr
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:19:45 AM permalink
I don't know the true definition of a Troll. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

But if I see a guy on two different threads discussing his dislike for certain members and the Forum in general.

Is that a Troll?
Stupid is a choice
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:31:29 AM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Well, I'm sure I'll be accused by Axel, Axiom, etc. of being a troll, and idiot, a delusional fool, and oh yeah, a tax cheat for saying this, but I continue to observe this phenomenon today (and some of the machines that continue to offer FP games are, in fact, over a decade old). It's not selective memory on my part, though I'm sure the internet sneerers are saying right now that it is. One thing I see a LOT--far more than random chance should produce--is when holding a ingle high card in any JOB/DB variant, and the end result is that you have three cards suited with that high card and one unsuited (for instance, hold the club Q and receive three more clubs and a heart), the "miss" card is more often than not dealt last (to give you the impression that you almost made a surprise flush from your four-card draw). Logically, this should happen one out of four times you wind up with such a (losing) hand, but my observation is that it happens more often than not. Again, I'm sure the various geniuses here are sneering, and I'm sure someone will demand footage from the helmet cam I wear during all my VP sessions as "proof," and when I don't provide, it, drop some internet poop on my head.



Care to put money on this? If what you say is true it is easily verifiable. You can pick the machine and the game (it has to be real video poker at a real casino in Las Vegas, not some pull-tab game in Montana or New York). I'll meet you and you can play, and we can record the results. If you're willing to risk at least $1000 I'll give you 5:1 odds (I'll risk $5000 against your $1000) that you don't get the offsuit card in the last position 35 or more times out of the first 100 where that draw occurs (3 suited card and 1 offsuit card).

If you're not willing to risk $1000 I'm sure that you can easily find someone else willing to take the bet for less money. If you are right this is easily your best advantage play, since I'm sure that you can make the same bet with several people and just keep winning more and more money. That $8000 will be a real bankroll before you know it.
DrawingDead
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:37:06 AM permalink
He's not new to any of this. He's done this many, many times on multiple related discussion boards under many screen names for years now. Always the same. Always. He had at least three different identities on AllVegasPoker as he'd get repeatedly kicked off as an excessively disruptive serial antagonist, then come back with a different screen name after moving where he had a different IP address, provoke more uproars, lather, rinse... He's not going to stop, and nobody here is going to change or limit his behavior. You either want to have it & choose to tolerate it & have anyone else continually adapt around it, or not. Those the two choices. Only those two. Whatever. He will not become remade by anyone connected with this site into someone with a different character. This is what he does, and those will be the two choices. There is no door #3 to pick. In the AVP archives he can be found under the screen names Beaverdance, Greenslime, and others the name of which escape me at the moment.
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:39:04 AM permalink
Right now I see no real difference between him and Rob Singer. Is he Rob Singer?

Hopefully he will be nuked soon and the problem will go away.
DrawingDead
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:41:27 AM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Is he Rob Singer?

If you meant that literally: no.
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 11:53:36 AM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

If you meant that literally: no.



I did mean it literally. I'm not even sure how to interpret it non-literally :)
DrawingDead
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:02:07 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I'm not even sure how to interpret it non-literally :)

Well, it's like there are times in life when I've tried to channel my inner (rather deeply hidden) hunk movie star character, to summon everything I can muster to figuratively be George Clooney. Not very successfully for very long, but still...
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:02:45 PM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

Well, it's like there are times in life when I've tried to channel my inner hunk movie star character, to summon everything I can muster to figuratively be George Clooney. Not very successfully for very long, but still...



You must get tons of babes.
DrawingDead
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:06:45 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

You must get tons of babes.

Yes, tons, briefly, all of whom seem to want to sell me a fantastic time-share investment opportunity. Like I said, not very successfully for very long.
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
mickeycrimm
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:41:59 PM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Say it eleven more times, mickey. Trolling. Trolling. Trolling. AWWWWWWWK! Trolling trolling trolling trolling trolling. Polly wants a cracker.

It's a pretty tired cliché to accuse anyone with whom you're having an internet argument of trolling. You're not as original as I would expect someone haunting the glittering casinos of Butte, Glendive, and Dillon to be. Of course, part of what's going on here is that many, many times, you've gone into one of these twenty-machine mom-and-pop dust joints and observed something that was too good to be true, but played it anyway--and paid the price. You felt foolish, that you had been "played," and so you just chalked it up to variance rather than admit that. It's an ego thing--don't be ashamed of it, it happens to all of us at some point.



That 8K bankroll you got is about what I make in an average month. And yes, you are trolling again.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
mickeycrimm
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:58:35 PM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

The question has already been dealt with in what I fear is typical fashion for this board. The entrenched cognoscenti are certain that the OP is out of his gourd and is most likely falling victim to selective memory. I alone have afforded him the benefit of the doubt, for reasons I've detailed above.

That slot and VP manufacturers will alter how a losing result is presented is beyond doubt. The greater question of whether casinos in general cheat has also been answered beyond doubt. So we should all be wary--but piling onto someone who suggests things might not be on the up-and-up, as happened to the OP and then to me when I supported his suspicions, doesn't exactly help. The OP came here for advice and got treated as if he was a fool. Nobody but me took what he said the least bit seriously.

Quite frankly, I actually think that selective memory probably WAS in play here. But automatically lifting your legs and peeing on anyone who reports suspecting casino cheating will certainly discourage information-sharing in the future and make it that much easier for casinos to cheat without fear of consequences.



I couldn't have been nicer to the OP in my response. I didn't call him out of his gourd. I didn't pile on. I didn't treat him like a fool. I didn't pee on him. These are all words that came out of your wild imagination. I simply gave him my honest take on the phenomenon.

I think you and the Unabomber have a little bit in common. You both suffer from "why won't you listen to me?" syndrome.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 1:00:33 PM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

That 8K bankroll you got is about what I make in an average month. And yes, you are trolling again.



Come on! He is an expert AP! Through decades of advantage play he has managed to amass a whole $8000...

He would be up more if those machines were not cheating him.
AxelWolf
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August 29th, 2014 at 1:24:29 PM permalink
I was civil to the OP and everyone. Someone came and started name calling and stirring up @#$!.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
mickeycrimm
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August 29th, 2014 at 1:36:12 PM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

He's not new to any of this. He's done this many, many times on multiple related discussion boards under many screen names for years now. Always the same. Always. He had at least three different identities on AllVegasPoker as he'd get repeatedly kicked off as an excessively disruptive serial antagonist, then come back with a different screen name after moving where he had a different IP address, provoke more uproars, lather, rinse... He's not going to stop, and nobody here is going to change or limit his behavior. You either want to have it & choose to tolerate it & have anyone else continually adapt around it, or not. Those the two choices. Only those two. Whatever. He will not become remade by anyone connected with this site into someone with a different character. This is what he does, and those will be the two choices. There is no door #3 to pick. In the AVP archives he can be found under the screen names Beaverdance, Greenslime, and others the name of which escape me at the moment.



Thanks for the enlightenment, DD.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 1:43:13 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I was civil to the OP and everyone. Someone came and started name calling and stirring up @#$!.



Sorry 'bout that
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 4:17:07 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Right now I see no real difference between him and Rob Singer. Is he Rob Singer?

Hopefully he will be nuked soon and the problem will go away.



Actually, "Rob Singer" is a fiction. And no, I'm not him.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 4:22:44 PM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

Actually, "Rob Singer" is a fiction. And no, I'm not him.



Rob Singer is not a fiction (the name is fictional; the person is not). The Wizard met him. He has a picture of him on his website.
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 4:27:03 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Come on! He is an expert AP! Through decades of advantage play he has managed to amass a whole $8000...

He would be up more if those machines were not cheating him.



I am presently low on cash because of a long injury/illness and recovery. But a genius like you should recognize the difference between bankroll and total assets. That $8000 is what I'm willing to risk right now. I have other resources. But if I lose that $8000 playing what SHOULD be +EV games, that will be my threshold of suspicion. There's a pretty low probability of playing .25 FPDW and suffering such a loss if the machines are honest. I'm currently on hiatus to take care of a relative who was in a bad accident. I'll be back in Vegas in a few weeks, but 140 hours of play have so far resulted in a $700 loss, which may be well within the realm of reasonable expectation but is enough to raise a red flag, given that expected results for that amount of play should be in the +$1000 range. I play FPDW all but perfectly, so nothing is really different from my prior successful experiences.

Please piss on the above, Axiom, Axel, Mickey. I'll be disappointed if you don't.
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 4:34:05 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Rob Singer is not a fiction (the name is fictional; the person is not). The Wizard met him. He has a picture of him on his website.



That's why I said " 'Rob Singer' is a fiction" and not "Rob Singer is a fiction." Putting quotation marks around the name, I was referring to the internet fictional persona, not the real-life person who assumes the name. But even so, the person to whom you refer isn't really named that. I don't know what his name actually is. (And if he gives some other name on the Wizard's site, that's almost certainly fictional, too.)

I think I'll create "Singer's Law" to refer to the fact that in any discussion about video poker that degenerates into personal attacks, some poster will fling what he thinks is the ultimate weapon by calling another poster "Rob Singer." He truly is the stuff of legend in the stinky pit that is internet gambling discussion boards.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 29th, 2014 at 4:38:06 PM permalink
Quote: Eaglesnest

That's why I said " 'Rob Singer' is a fiction" and not "Rob Singer is a fiction." Putting quotation marks around the name, I was referring to the internet fictional persona, not the real-life person who assumes the name. But even so, the person to whom you refer isn't really named that. I don't know what his name actually is. (And if he gives some other name on the Wizard's site, that's almost certainly fictional, too.)

I think I'll create "Singer's Law" to refer to the fact that in any discussion about video poker that degenerates into personal attacks, some poster will fling what he thinks is the ultimate weapon by calling another poster "Rob Singer." He truly is the stuff of legend in the stinky pit that is internet gambling discussion boards.



You are posting almost exactly the same BS that he posts so I think it was natural to ask if you were him. Your claim that the non-flush card is more likely to show up last is equally ridiculous as his "Singer flip" theory.
Eaglesnest
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August 29th, 2014 at 4:46:02 PM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

I couldn't have been nicer to the OP in my response. I didn't call him out of his gourd. I didn't pile on. I didn't treat him like a fool. I didn't pee on him. These are all words that came out of your wild imagination. I simply gave him my honest take on the phenomenon.

I think you and the Unabomber have a little bit in common. You both suffer from "why won't you listen to me?" syndrome.



Do you really think I care about what people like you think about me or whether you listen to me or not? You've spent a wasted life slithering from one stinky Montana machine parlor to another, probably inhaling several metric tons of cigarette smoke and burning tens of thousands of gallons of gas (it's a long way from Libby to Billings) in the process. At some point you may have even enjoyed doing that, but I suspect that you've woken up in the middle of the night many times realizing that you now can't do anything else. You're stuck. The only emotion I feel toward you is pity, if for no other reason than you've been crisscrossing one of the most beautiful states in America and what you've stopped to experience is...its keno machines.

All that said, I still don't know what particular "berserk button" of yours I might have pushed. If you could explain just what it is that set you off, I could avoid it in the future. Otto in "A Fish Called Wanda" continually warned, "Don't call me stupid!" and was then inevitably called stupid on a number of occasions. Indiana Jones didn't like snakes and kept winding up in pits full of them. You may not like anyone suggesting that VP machines aren't random. Who knows?
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