How do cards work in video poker?
Quote: mickeycrimmYou really are a bore.
When something like you insults me, I consider that a compliment. Fire away.
Some of us know all about the near misses and states legislating slot rules to no longer allow that. We know that online casinos have been caught cheating and there is, with no doubt in my mind, cheating going on by a few on-line casinos because well, there have been investigations and analysis done by a few members on this site, some of whom are amateurs like myself, and some by professionals who do math for a living, who have found cheating games on on-line casinos.
Brick and mortar casinos though? Each state has regulations carefully drawn up to prevent cheating machines. Certainly, outside of Vegas, maybe in the corner stores, there might be a few slots or VP machines that are rigged to pay below the state minimum. But there's absolutely no need for a casino to take the risk of getting caught cheating the customer and get heavily fined because the HA takes care of itself. The game makers themselves have PAR sheets for slots and have to conform to randomly dealt cards as per the state's gaming regulators, before they even get to the floor. IGT and the major game makers need to conform to the law too.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceHe likes to change the subject when he is clearly wrong. Remind you of anyone else on this site? I think you nailed it a week or so ago... what was it you called him... someone Jr?
Axiom, your arrogance is only exceeded by your utter lack of social graces. Or at least, those of your internet persona; you may be tolerable in real life.
If you are really saying that my mentioning table games was "changing the subject because I was clearly wrong"... well, such a childish attack isn't worthy of you. Again, why can't you disagree with me in a civil manner without being insulting? I'm really curious as to what personality defect makes this so hard for you. My experiences differ from yours; therefore our perceptions also differ. Why can't you just leave it at that without all the insults and ad hominem attacks? I'm really, truly curious why an intelligent person such as yourself is so seemingly incapable of basic civility. Again, I'm willing to chalk it up to your internet persona being different than your true nature. God, at least I hope so.
Quote: boymimboIt's quite simple. You argued a 114% machine on a VP machine in Montana that you thought was cheating you, but like in many states, it's a Class II machine which means that the pay table has nothing to do with the theoretical pay table. Then you recalled a 1988 lawsuit that didn't exist and dissed someone else for not believing you.
But there's absolutely no need for a casino to take the risk of getting caught cheating the customer and get heavily fined because the HA takes care of itself.
Yes, it is really simple. You just said that the machine "IS." Had you used whatever reading comprehension skills you possess, you would have perceived that this was IN THE PAST. More than twenty years ago, in fact. And the 1988 lawsuit did, in fact, exist. Can you prove that it didn't? I want research and a citation from you proving your contention! NOW! (And BTW, Class II machines weren't used in Montana back then, and the gaming compacts with the various tribes were still being ironed out. You shouldn't confuse 1990 with 2014. 2014 is twenty-four years later than 1990.)
If there was an actual risk of being caught and punished, your statement would make some sense. But there's no risk; the few times casinos have been caught cheating by regulatory agencies, the punishments were tiny wrist-slaps. Given the huge potential reward and the infinitesimal risk from cheating, it would indeed be a rational decision for a casino to cheat, especially if there were immediate pressure to boost the bottom line. The house edge may not, in fact, be sufficient in and of itself for the entity to show a profit. Look at what Harrah's/CET did (minus $31 billion) with some of the tightest (highest HE) casinos in the world.
I don't mind if you or anyone else thinks that casinos have the ethics of Mother Teresa. That same thinking prevailed when regarding Enron, AIG, and all the various collapsed banks and car companies of the recent depression. Why would they CHEAT when they were so profitable?
Quote: BuzzardWould cost someone a suspension to say what I think of you. Do you own a 10 gallon hat ?
As with many of the other denizens of this site, your disdain for me is actually a handsome compliment. I shudder to think of what it would mean if you LIKED me.
I haven yet. Had I done so, It would have been because I had a sensation telling me I was hungry. A Physiological need I guess. Strange question to ask, considering it had nothing to do with making your point. I guess you do that often.Quote: EaglesnestBecause I wish to. Why did you eat dinner tonight?
Oh please don't bring up that kind of stuff, I already seen BBM.Quote: EaglesnestAs with many of the other denizens of this site, your disdain for me is actually a handsome compliment. I shudder to think of what it would mean if you LIKED me.
Quote: EaglesnestAs with many of the other denizens of this site, your disdain for me is actually a handsome compliment. I shudder to think of what it would mean if you LIKED me.
Keep that up and I will drop you off my Xmas card list.
Quote: EaglesnestAs with many of the other denizens of this site, your disdain for me is actually a handsome compliment. I shudder to think of what it would mean if you LIKED me.
So, no one on this site thinks much of you and you are happy about that. Why are you still here?
Why did you eat dinner tonight?Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, no one on this site thinks much of you and you are happy about that. Why are you still here?
Quote: Eaglesnest!(And BTW, Class II machines weren't used in Montana back then, and the gaming compacts with the various tribes were still being ironed out. You shouldn't confuse 1990 with 2014. 2014 is twenty-four years later than 1990.)
I could be wrong, but I didn't think Bally had video poker in 1990. I thought their agreement between Bally and IGT (SIRCOMA) prevented it.
Quote: AxelWolfI haven yet. Had I done so, It would have been because I had a sensation telling me I was hungry. A Physiological need I guess. Strange question to ask, considering it had nothing to do with making your point. I guess you do that often.
Your question was silly: given that I was discussing casino cheating, table game experiences applied as well as machine experiences. That's why I didn't answer it directly. You also didn't pick up on the fact that neither I nor anyone else have to justify WHY I post something to YOU or anyone else.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, no one on this site thinks much of you and you are happy about that. Why are you still here?
Sorry, your statement is logically flawed; foolishly so. YOU and a couple of other people don't like me. That's not the same as "no one thinks much of you." And here I thought you understood English...don't conflate your one, single, personal opinion with those of others. Your views don't have any more importance than those of any ONE person. You don't count for anything more than that.
Quote: BuzzardKeep that up and I will drop you off my Xmas card list.
NOOOOOOOOOOO!
Quote: AxelWolfEaglesnest, seriouse question, Why don't you think competing game manufacturers are outing others for having gaffed or wacky software?
I can postulate several reasons. The most obvious one would be that if this is a practice in which they all engage, then it would be better for them to collude than to cut each others' throats. Also, I doubt that it would be all that easy for a tech from one company to detect a cheating algorithm in the machines of another company. In my experience, software engineers quite often write deliberately obtuse, impenetrable code as a way to obtain job security. Aside from that, different platforms and different firmware require different code.
Also, any experience of cheating would be part of the PLAYERS' experiences, not of the employees of the manufacturers. And given the reactions the mere suggestion has elicited on this site--supposedly FULL of knowledgeable people--at what point would the allegations of cheating by a player who had lost heavily at a VP or slot machine be considered as anything but the whining of a loser and taken seriously?
Another factor is the multiple jurisdictions where slots/VP appear. These jurisdictions all have different rules and regulations. A given software bug--deliberately or accidentally created--could exist for quite some time in a single jurisdiction without even being detected. It's as if there were several dozen competing manufacturers instead of just a few.
I want to emphasize that I believe casino cheating to be rare. I do NOT think, however, that casinos, given that they are highly competitive with one another--because they offer largely identical products--are necessarily immune to the siren song of acting unethically in order to increase profits. After all, just about all major industries have some bad actors who are motivated by the prospect of short-term gain--why should machine manufacturers and casinos be any different in that regard?
Quote: DRichI could be wrong, but I didn't think Bally had video poker in 1990. I thought their agreement between Bally and IGT (SIRCOMA) prevented it.
Bingo! There was a non-compete clause in the agreement when IGT broke off from Bally's. I think it was for 20 years, or something around that number. The Bally Gamemakers didn't come out until 1998. Eaglesnest could not have been playing a Bally's video poker game in the time frame he stated.
Quote: EaglesnestSorry, your statement is logically flawed; foolishly so. YOU and a couple of other people don't like me. That's not the same as "no one thinks much of you." And here I thought you understood English...don't conflate your one, single, personal opinion with those of others. Your views don't have any more importance than those of any ONE person. You don't count for anything more than that.
So, you postulate that there is at least one person who likes you? Do you have any evidence of this? How about the Easter Bunny?
Quote: mickeycrimmBingo! There was a non-compete clause in the agreement when IGT broke off from Bally's. I think it was for 20 years, or something around that number. The Bally Gamemakers didn't come out until 1998. Eaglesnest could not have been playing a Bally's video poker game in the time frame he stated.
Since you were so utterly confused about the time frame earlier (you thought I was referring to the present...), I'm not sure you're accurate here, but so what if it was a different manufacturer's machine? SOMEBODY made the thing, presumably not in their garage. This was well before "unvideo poker" (Class II) machines ever existed in Montana, so whether these machines were made by Bally or someone else, they were being touted as actual VP machines, not virtual lottery terminals. (And by the way, I never said that they were Bally GAMEMAKERS. Bally has never offered Double Joker VP on a Gamemaker, as far as I'm aware.) Also, I don't know for sure, not having taken the machine apart, just who DID make it--the faceplate could have been a counterfeit.
I freely admit that I do not recall every detail of an hour spent in a casino in Browning, Montana over twenty years ago. I believe I had a hamburger and fries there for lunch, and drank a Coke. However, if your research uncovers the fact that there were no hamburgers in Browning before 1995, feel free to call me a liar. Bingo!
Quote: DRichI could be wrong, but I didn't think Bally had video poker in 1990. I thought their agreement between Bally and IGT (SIRCOMA) prevented it.
The non-compete clause turned out to be a huge blunder by Bally's. During the 20 years video poker revenue in the casinos went from literally nothing up to 30%, by far the biggest revenue maker in the casinos.
Quote: EaglesnestI can postulate several reasons. The most obvious one would be that if this is a practice in which they all engage, then it would be better for them to collude than to cut each others' throats. Also, I doubt that it would be all that easy for a tech from one company to detect a cheating algorithm in the machines of another company. In my experience, software engineers quite often write deliberately obtuse, impenetrable code as a way to obtain job security. Aside from that, different platforms and different firmware require different code.
Also, any experience of cheating would be part of the PLAYERS' experiences, not of the employees of the manufacturers. And given the reactions the mere suggestion has elicited on this site--supposedly FULL of knowledgeable people--at what point would the allegations of cheating by a player who had lost heavily at a VP or slot machine be considered as anything but the whining of a loser and taken seriously?
Another factor is the multiple jurisdictions where slots/VP appear. These jurisdictions all have different rules and regulations. A given software bug--deliberately or accidentally created--could exist for quite some time in a single jurisdiction without even being detected. It's as if there were several dozen competing manufacturers instead of just a few.
I want to emphasize that I believe casino cheating to be rare. I do NOT think, however, that casinos, given that they are highly competitive with one another--because they offer largely identical products--are necessarily immune to the siren song of acting unethically in order to increase profits. After all, just about all major industries have some bad actors who are motivated by the prospect of short-term gain--why should machine manufacturers and casinos be any different in that regard?
Wow! You actually made a post without a snide remark about another member. I didn't think you were capable of such a thing.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, you postulate that there is at least one person who likes you? Do you have any evidence of this? How about the Easter Bunny?
I will be even more specific. I will postulate that there are many people ON THIS SITE who like me, or at least, don't display the rabid antipathy to me that you and a couple of other posters do. I know there are plenty of people--hundreds, in fact--of people IN THE REAL WORLD who like me.
Here's something I need to educate you about, apparently. You haven't met me, nor I you. I suspect that is also true for the vast majority of posters on this site. So no one has any valid reason to like or dislike anyone else here--not based on a series of internet discussion board posts! I see in your posts an almost pathological abrasiveness, unwarranted self-assurance, and confrontational manner--but it would be foolish of me to say that I don't like you based on that alone. You may be quite the mensch in real life. The anonymity of the internet--and the lack of consequences for acting badly--creates distorted avatars of otherwise normal and socially well-adjusted people. You may truly not understand all this, but I think that on some level, you actually do.
I think that even asking a jerkface question like you just did would be reason to report you to the moderator, but a) I fight my own battles, and b) I'll chalk it up to your internet persona, not a socially well-adjusted human being, talking.
Quote: mickeycrimmWow! You actually made a post without a snide remark about another member. I didn't think you were capable of such a thing.
As you, apparently, are not--thus, I see the reason for your admiration!
Quote: EaglesnestSince you were so utterly confused about the time frame earlier (you thought I was referring to the present...), I'm not sure you're accurate here, but so what if it was a different manufacturer's machine? SOMEBODY made the thing, presumably not in their garage. This was well before "unvideo poker" (Class II) machines ever existed in Montana, so whether these machines were made by Bally or someone else, they were being touted as actual VP machines, not virtual lottery terminals. (And by the way, I never said that they were Bally GAMEMAKERS. Bally has never offered Double Joker VP on a Gamemaker, as far as I'm aware.)
The Gamemaker came out in 1998. I know. I was there. It was their very first video poker machine. And I'm thinking it was the first multi-game platform. The biggest exploitable game was called Draw Till U Win, 103.2%. It took about 6 years for the game to be pulled off of every Gamemaker in the state. It disappeared quickly out of Las Vegas but lasted for years along I-80 in towns like Fernly, Fallon, Carlin, Elko, Wells and Wendover. I ran a circuit on them until they completely disappeared, which I think was about 2004.
You know dam well the main conversation was about gaffed machines.Quote: EaglesnestYour question was silly: given that I was discussing casino cheating, table game experiences applied as well as machine experiences. That's why I didn't answer it directly. You also didn't pick up on the fact that neither I nor anyone else have to justify WHY I post something to YOU or anyone else.
Quote: EaglesnestI think that even asking a jerkface question like you just did would be reason to report you to the moderator, but a) I fight my own battles, and b) I'll chalk it up to your internet persona, not a socially well-adjusted human being, talking.
This is all so very funny. You won't have to contact a moderator, Mr. E. I guarantee you they are watching this thread very closely. And the one they are watching the most is you.
Quote: EaglesnestI will be even more specific. I will postulate that there are many people ON THIS SITE who like me, or at least, don't display the rabid antipathy to me that you and a couple of other posters do. I know there are plenty of people--hundreds, in fact--of people IN THE REAL WORLD who like me.
Here's something I need to educate you about, apparently. You haven't met me, nor I you. I suspect that is also true for the vast majority of posters on this site. So no one has any valid reason to like or dislike anyone else here--not based on a series of internet discussion board posts! I see in your posts an almost pathological abrasiveness, unwarranted self-assurance, and confrontational manner--but it would be foolish of me to say that I don't like you based on that alone. You may be quite the mensch in real life. The anonymity of the internet--and the lack of consequences for acting badly--creates distorted avatars of otherwise normal and socially well-adjusted people. You may truly not understand all this, but I think that on some level, you actually do.
I think that even asking a jerkface question like you just did would be reason to report you to the moderator, but a) I fight my own battles, and b) I'll chalk it up to your internet persona, not a socially well-adjusted human being, talking.
So, a "no" on the evidence then?
I'm guessing that the answer is the same for the Easter bunny. That's a shame, because I really like chocolate.
Quote: mickeycrimmThe Gamemaker came out in 1998. I know. I was there. It was their very first video poker machine. And I'm thinking it was the first multi-game platform. The biggest exploitable game was called Draw Till U Win, 103.2%. It took about 6 years for the game to be pulled off of every Gamemaker in the state. It disappeared quickly out of Las Vegas but lasted for years along I-80 in towns like Fernly, Fallon, Carlin, Elko, Wells and Wendover. I ran a circuit on them until they completely disappeared, which I think was about 2004.
As I said, it's quite possible that a) I'm misremembering the machine manufacturer as stated on the glass; I'm only certain that it was a major, well-recognized manufacturer at that time, or b) the machine was some kind of counterfeit with a Bally front glass. It's really kind of tangential to the discussion--and therefore pointless--to try to attack my anecdote and call me a liar because you have an agenda of discrediting me. It was a bar, restaurant, and casino in Browning, Montana. It was approximately 75 yards north of and across the street from the Museum of the American Indian. The waitress had black hair in braids and was quite beautiful. I had a hamburger. The sun was shining. The Giants had just beaten the Dodgers in a nationally televised game.
(AHA! Eaglesnest you stinkin' liar! I've just spent three hours on the internet and there WAS NO NATIONALLY TELEVISED GIANTS-DODGERS GAME ON ANY DAY BEFORE 1995 after which hamburgers were served in Browning, Montana! And the Museum of the American Indian is EIGHTY-THREE yards from the nearest building! So you are clearly a diseased scumbag! Cocka doody poo-poo!!!!!!!!!!!! (frowny face emoticon) )
Browning was pretty much the Wild West as far as gambling was concerned for quite some time. The tribe took/takes its sovereignty seriously and thus didn't consider that it had to sign a gaming compact with the state. So what I experienced may have been unique to the Blackfeet reservation (the hamburger was good, though). I just had a hard time believing that anyone there would have had the skill to gaff a VP machine--not back then. So I concluded that it had most likely been sold to them that way--with or without "this will be a very profitable machine for you," wink wink, nudge nudge.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, a "no" on the evidence then?
I'm guessing that the answer is the same for the Easter bunny. That's a shame, because I really like chocolate.
"Evidence" to support my contention that there exist in the world several hundred people who like me? What do you want, affidavits? Videos?
This is getting pretty stupid, even for you. Drop it already. Or I WILL ask for the attention of the moderator. You are starting to get a little too frequent with the personal attacks and insults. As I've said before, you have no basis to be uncivil. I may have to conclude that you are incapable of civility and block you. That would be a shame. DROP IT.
Quote: AxelWolfYou know dam well the main conversation was about gaffed machines.
And Axel, we are all supposed to ask you for permission if we want to expand on the subject or move the discussion in a slightly different direction? We must have your blessing before we can do that?? REALLY???
You aren't 1/100th as important as you think you are.
Quote: mickeycrimmThis is all so very funny. You won't have to contact a moderator, Mr. E. I guarantee you they are watching this thread very closely. And the one they are watching the most is you.
Well, mickey baby, you've been suspended at least once that I saw (and yes, so have I), so chances are you're being watched equally closely. But your statement that they are watching me "the most" is not supported by evidence, only your personal belief and eagerness to say something nasty. I honestly don't know why you've been so hostile to me. Is it just a feature of your personality, shaped over the years by endlessly cruising back and forth on I-90, looking for keno machines to exploit? I imagine that's a lonely and unfulfilling life, certainly not leavened by much human contact. This could easily make a person bitter, hostile, and defensive. I sympathize with you if that's indeed the case (as with Axel and Axiom, I don't know if your internet persona is an accurate reflection of who you are in real life).
All that said, please give it a rest with the personal attacks and insults. It is actually possible--REALLY!--for you to disagree with someone in a civil manner.
Quote: EaglesnestAs I said, it's quite possible that a) I'm misremembering the machine manufacturer as stated on the glass; I'm only certain that it was a major, well-recognized manufacturer at that time, or b) the machine was some kind of counterfeit with a Bally front glass. It's really kind of tangential to the discussion--and therefore pointless--to try to attack my anecdote and call me a liar because you have an agenda of discrediting me. It was a bar, restaurant, and casino in Browning, Montana. It was approximately 75 yards north of and across the street from the Museum of the American Indian. The waitress had black hair in braids and was quite beautiful. I had a hamburger. The sun was shining. The Giants had just beaten the Dodgers in a nationally televised game.
(AHA! Eaglesnest you stinkin' liar! I've just spent three hours on the internet and there WAS NO NATIONALLY TELEVISED GIANTS-DODGERS GAME ON ANY DAY BEFORE 1995 after which hamburgers were served in Browning, Montana! And the Museum of the American Indian is EIGHTY-THREE yards from the nearest building! So you are clearly a diseased scumbag! Cocka doody poo-poo!!!!!!!!!!!! (frowny face emoticon) )
All you are doing here is trolling, Mr. E. I'm surprised the moderators have let you get away with it for so long.
Please lock this thread. It has deteriorated into nothing more than a vehicle for some of the more entrenched denizens of this board to launch personal attacks on me. Nothing of substance is being discussed any longer.
I am disappointed at the lack of civil discourse here, particularly on the part of AxelWolf, Axiom, and mickeycrimm, but then, it's the internet.
Quote: EaglesnestWell, mickey baby, you've been suspended at least once that I saw (and yes, so have I), so chances are you're being watched equally closely. But your statement that they are watching me "the most" is not supported by evidence, only your personal belief and eagerness to say something nasty. I honestly don't know why you've been so hostile to me. Is it just a feature of your personality, shaped over the years by endlessly cruising back and forth on I-90, looking for keno machines to exploit? I imagine that's a lonely and unfulfilling life, certainly not leavened by much human contact. This could easily make a person bitter, hostile, and defensive. I sympathize with you if that's indeed the case (as with Axel and Axiom, I don't know if your internet persona is an accurate reflection of who you are in real life).
All that said, please give it a rest with the personal attacks and insults. It is actually possible--REALLY!--for you to disagree with someone in a civil manner.
Is that you, Rob?
Quote: mickeycrimmIs that you, Rob?
Not everyone who says something about gambling that you disagree with is Rob Singer.
Thank you for responding in, alas, predictable fashion to my request for civility and common decency from you.
Quote: EaglesnestI honestly don't know why you've been so hostile to me. Is it just a feature of your personality, shaped over the years by endlessly cruising back and forth on I-90, looking for keno machines to exploit? I imagine that's a lonely and unfulfilling life, certainly not leavened by much human contact. This could easily make a person bitter, hostile, and defensive. I sympathize with you if that's indeed the case (as with Axel and Axiom, I don't know if your internet persona is an accurate reflection of who you are in real life).
I only work about half the days in a year. If I didn't like my lifestyle I would do something else. I have lots of friends. Your imagination is now running wild.
Quote: EaglesnestWell, mickey baby, you've been suspended at least once that I saw (and yes, so have I),
Mickey gets suspended all the time. There is usually alcohol involved.
The thing about Mickey and Axel is that they are knowledgeable people. They play for a living. I've never met Mickey in person but I have met Axel and he definitely knows what he is doing. As for Mickey, I can tell that he knows his stuff just by what he writes. DRich builds these things for a living (as do a few others on this forum). In other words, they all know exactly what they are talking about. The fact that you disagree so vehemently with all of them about the facts gives us all a pretty good idea exactly how much you know.
I'm sorry that, a few decades ago, you played a pull-tabs game that you didn't know was pull-tabs. Get over it.
Quote: EaglesnestAs I said, it's quite possible that a) I'm misremembering the machine manufacturer as stated on the glass; I'm only certain that it was a major, well-recognized manufacturer at that time ...
Eaglesnest, who were the major video poker manufacturers before 1990? I didn't start in gaming until 1990 so I am not very familiar with them.
Quote: EaglesnestTO MODERATOR:
Please lock this thread. It has deteriorated into nothing more than a vehicle for some of the more entrenched denizens of this board to launch personal attacks on me. Nothing of substance is being discussed any longer.
I am disappointed at the lack of civil discourse here, particularly on the part of AxelWolf, Axiom, and mickeycrimm, but then, it's the internet.
If you have a beef, PM the moderators directly.
Placing messages in threads about moderator actions is the act of the passive-aggressive. Or someone who thinks the mods are actively reading everything every second of the day.
Wow that sounds personal, didn't you just admonish AX for that?(BTW telling someone they are blocked is a no no, according to Mission and company). I didn't get personal with you in this thread, like your last statement, obviously meant as an insult .Quote: EaglesnestAnd Axel, we are all supposed to ask you for permission if we want to expand on the subject or move the discussion in a slightly different direction? We must have your blessing before we can do that?? REALLY???
You aren't 1/100th as important as you think you are.
REALLY, You know what I think?
It does not really matter what you think, I'm important to the people around me, both personally and financially. I have helped quite a few people become successful.
I have turned down many offers for more, I can have that verified. I have even turned down helping a few casinos.
You can call me out and attack my horrible grammar and spelling. I don't try to do better, I know "somthings" are clearly wrong, I chose to not care. Hell 3 of my keys don't work on my keyboard and the glass is smashed on my phone. Even under perfect conditions I would still suck at it, the cost of F---ing around skipping classes a ton and getting laid since middle school(You had to be smart in that class)
No one, I know of, who meet in person thought I was stupid(maybe after 7 shots while having fun). I've done my share of stupid things, usually to myself(notorious for losing crap). What writing skills I do lack in, I make up for in many other ways.
You can be the best writer and most educated person around, even a brilliant mathematician. When it comes to AP/gambling/money/social skills, that can all be meaningless. I have seen it first hand. There are many public cases, "smart" guys can figure out all the mat but they cant AP or hold on to a BR.
All this permission stuff you are getting at, is really childish. We were debating a particular subject. Wanting to keep that subject at the forefront shouldn't turn into "You're not my boss/daddy you can't tell me what to do"
It's simple, its probably billions to one that anyone is really seeing what the OP claims. I think it's a bad Idea to even plant seeds in peoples heads it's any thing more than a myth.
Anyone qualified to make a valid believable allegation would present more facts and evidence. They would probably prove it to themselves first. If they can do that, then they can prove it to others.
Quote: AxelWolfYou can call me out and attack my horrible grammar and spelling. I don't try to do better, I know "somthings" are clearly wrong, I chose to not care. Hell 3 of my keys don't work on my keyboard and the glass is smashed on my phone. Even under perfect conditions I would still suck at it, the cost of F---ing around skipping classes a ton and getting laid since middle school(You had to be smart in that class)
No one, I know of, who meet in person thought I was stupid(maybe after 7 shots while having fun). I've done my share of stupid things, usually to myself(notorious for losing crap). What writing skills I do lack in, I make up for in many other ways.
You can be the best writer and most educated person around, even a brilliant mathematician. When it comes to AP/gambling/money/social skills, that can all be meaningless. I have seen it first hand. There are many public cases, "smart" guys can figure out all the mat but they cant AP or hold on to a BR.
All this permission stuff you are getting at, is really childish. We were debating a particular subject. Wanting to keep that subject at the forefront shouldn't turn into "You're not my boss/daddy you can't tell me what to do"
It's simple, its probably billions to one that anyone is really seeing what the OP claims. I think it's a bad Idea to even plant seeds in peoples heads it's any thing more than a myth.
Anyone qualified to make a valid believable allegation would present more facts and evidence. They would probably prove it to themselves first. If they can do that, then they can prove it to others.
I messed this up. I'll have to start over.
Quote: AxelWolfYou can call me out and attack my horrible grammar and spelling. I don't try to do better, I know "somthings" are clearly wrong, I chose to not care. Hell 3 of my keys don't work on my keyboard and the glass is smashed on my phone. Even under perfect conditions I would still suck at it, the cost of F---ing around skipping classes a ton and getting laid since middle school(You had to be smart in that class).
Louis L'Amour was an editor's nightmare but he's sold about 300 million books.
I talked my friend, Al, into making a few posts on videopoker.com a few years back. Al is 50 years old and has been a career gambler since he was 18. He is one sharp gambler. But his grammer, spelling, capitalization, etc. are not the best in the world. The wannabe AP's on videopoker.com jumped on him for it. Al got pissed and quit posting. It was their loss. He could have taught them a lot. Their writing skills may be better than his but he is 100 times the gambler that any of them will ever turn out to be.
Quote: DRichEaglesnest, who were the major video poker manufacturers before 1990? I didn't start in gaming until 1990 so I am not very familiar with them.
Don't remember offhand. The one name I remember on the first VP machines was Williams, but I'm not sure about the 1990 threshold. The first VP machines I saw in Nevada were in early 1982, and I am only reasonably sure of that date because I was married in Vegas and saw them there at that time.
Quote: thecesspitIf you have a beef, PM the moderators directly.
Placing messages in threads about moderator actions is the act of the passive-aggressive. Or someone who thinks the mods are actively reading everything every second of the day.
Well, according to mickeycrimm, they are, and he's never wrong; just ask him. And I believe you're overthinking when you try to parse out my deep psychological motivations for mentioning the moderator. I am simply trying to get people off my back. Call that "passive-aggressive" if you wish, but it's actually an appeal to common decency (an oxymoronic term when referring to the internet).
Quote: mickeycrimmLouis L'Amour was an editor's nightmare but he's sold about 300 million books.
I talked my friend, Al, into making a few posts on videopoker.com a few years back. Al is 50 years old and has been a career gambler since he was 18. He is one sharp gambler. But his grammer, spelling, capitalization, etc. are not the best in the world. The wannabe AP's on videopoker.com jumped on him for it. Al got pissed and quit posting. It was their loss. He could have taught them a lot. Their writing skills may be better than his but he is 100 times the gambler that any of them will ever turn out to be.
Well, indifference to spelling, grammar, and punctuation can cause misunderstandings, often serious ones. Add or drop a comma and you change the entire meaning of a sentence. In the "good old days," a person wouldn't have made it out of grammar school without being able to construct an English sentence. Nowadays, bad or even horrible writing is largely excused, even though those misunderstandings still persist.
Al and AxelWolf may be great gamblers, but when they post on internet boards, they're writers. If they construct bad sentences, they're failing at that task. In fact, Axel's bad grammar has made me misconstrue what he's said a number of times in the short time I've been here. Since it undoubtedly takes a formidable intellect and a great deal of effort to be a successful gambler/AP, would it be all that hard for such a person to learn to write coherently? That's what the videopoker.com denizens were probably thinking. Like it or not, even in this internet/social media world, how you write and speak connotes your intelligence, authority, and authenticity.
Speaking of which, hello again Beaverdance, Greenslime, etc.Quote: Eaglesnest(an oxymoronic term when referring to the internet).
Quote: AxelWolfAll this permission stuff you are getting at, is really childish. We were debating a particular subject. Wanting to keep that subject at the forefront shouldn't turn into "You're not my boss/daddy you can't tell me what to do"
It's simple, its probably billions to one that anyone is really seeing what the OP claims. I think it's a bad Idea to even plant seeds in peoples heads it's any thing more than a myth.
Anyone qualified to make a valid believable allegation would present more facts and evidence. They would probably prove it to themselves first. If they can do that, then they can prove it to others.
It was quite childish of you to demand an explanation for why I had changed the subject, especially when I really hadn't. Again, even if I HAD changed the subject, so bloody what? I don't need to answer to you.
I think it's a bad idea to plant the seed in people's heads that casino cheating is astronomically unlikely. The OP was basically told that he was hallucinating/using selective memory/etc. Quite possibly that was the case, BUT: a derisive sneer shouldn't be the automatic response to such allegations.
It's VERY disingenuous to ask someone reporting an observed anomaly to "present more facts and evidence." It was something unexpected he personally observed, so do you want to see the footage from his helmet cam or something? We all observe things that we can't verify to others after the fact. However, I suspect that even YOU don't automatically disbelieve everything YOU remember but can't verify. If you come home and tell your wife that you saw something unusual, does she say "PROVE IT!!!" or does she give you the benefit of the doubt?
That's what I fundamentally reacted to in this thread. All of you automatically assumed the OP was a misremembering loony bird.
