Ultimate X basics questions
Similarly, if you were playing a 10-hand game with three next hand multipliers you would have to play all 10 hands to exploit the 3 multipliers?
If you find next hand multipliers you can only exploit them for the denomination they are left at?
Also, to change the subject, It looks like you are playing one hand 10 times on a 10-hand game, right?
If playing a game with only one next hand multiplier on the "original" or first hand, you would put enough money into the machine to at least play one hand, 5 coins, in what ever denomination the previous bet was made in? Then just play 5 coins and you're done, win or lose, right?
Quote: AxelWolfhmmm.... i didn't realize you could play just 1 hand @ 5 coins. can you play 1 hand 10 coins?
You can't, unless it's a 5 Star unit with only one hand period. I think you misread what he wrote.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThey can be on any of the hands. You can play any or all of them for less than five credits but in order to play five credits, you must play every hand. So no, you cannot just play the hands with multipliers unless it's only on the first hand.
So if there are multipliers on hands 1, 4, 6, 7 on a 10-play, you can play 7 hands 4 credits each?
Would that be optimal?
Sounds like a pain in the ass and a RF waiting to happen.Quote: FinsRuleSo if there are multipliers on hands 1, 4, 6, 7 on a 10-play, you can play 7 hands 4 credits each?
Would that be optimal?
Quote: IbeatyouracesThey can be on any of the hands. You can play any or all of them for less than five credits but in order to play five credits, you must play every hand. So no, you cannot just play the hands with multipliers unless it's only on the first hand.
So if there's just one next hand multiplier and it's on just the first hand, there's little reason to play more than just that hand, except if you want to play 5 coins you would have to play all hands? So, if you have a next hand multiplier it seems like you'd want to play the max, 10 coins, in order to increase your advantage. If that's so, you'd always play all hands for 10 coins if there's even one next hand multiplier. And you'd play until you had no next hand multipliers? And what is a Star game? Is there more than one type of UX game?
Edit: It just dawned on me that I made a math/gambling 101 mistake in the above post. You would not bet 10 coins to increase your advantage because it would not increase your advantage. You can always double your wager to double your win, but it does not improve your odds.
Quote: IbeatyouracesOddly, your edge is larger playing just the first hand with a multiplier on a three play machine with one credit than it is playing all three with five credits.
but these are 1 time shots so I think it is best to take a 300% edge for $3.75 than it is taking a 400% edge for $0.25. The edge may be higher on 1 hand for 1 coin but the overall return is higher playing all hands for 5 coins. But I guess you already know that.
Quote: GreasyjohnSo if there's just one next hand multiplier and it's on just the first hand, there's little reason to play more than just that hand, except if you want to play 5 coins you would have to play all hands? So, if you have a next hand multiplier it seems like you'd want to play the max, 10 coins, in order to increase your advantage. If that's so, you'd always play all hands for 10 coins if there's even one next hand multiplier. And you'd play until you had no next hand multipliers? And what is a Star game? Is there more than one type of UX game?
You are over thinking this whole thing. If you have a game with them left behind then you should play all games for 5 coins. If you can not afford to do so then quit looking at them.
Here is some maths for ya. Lets assume you are playing a 100% game to make it easy.
You find a 3 play $0.25 with a 2x on the first line. You can either play all 3 games for 5 credits or play 1 game for 1 credit.
EV for 3 games at 5 coins is
((100x2)+100+100)/3= 133.33% edge.
(1.25x3)X133.33%= $5.00
Profit of $1.25
EV for 1 game at 1 coin is
100%x2= 200%
.25X200% = $0.50
Profit of $0.25
wholly crap I think this is the first time that I have actually tried to do math on this site. If I am wrong, someone please step in and correct me.
Quote: IbeatyouracesOddly, your edge is larger playing just the first hand with a multiplier on a three play machine with one credit than it is playing all three with five credits.
Percentage wise, yes, but not dollar wise. You should bet 5 as long as you can afford the swing. I went round and round with that super-knowledgeable Ardent1 over this. He gave great advice, and definitely knows more than I do, but everything he said had to come with some condescending "I'm better than you" comment. He'd be banned in a week if he came back under the new rules. I don't miss him at all.
Quote: GreasyjohnSo if there's just one next hand multiplier and it's on just the first hand, there's little reason to play more than just that hand, except if you want to play 5 coins you would have to play all hands? So, if you have a next hand multiplier it seems like you'd want to play the max, 10 coins, in order to increase your advantage. If that's so, you'd always play all hands for 10 coins if there's even one next hand multiplier. And you'd play until you had no next hand multipliers? And what is a Star game? Is there more than one type of UX game?
As others have said, you just want to play 5 credits because you get max benefit from the multiplier left over, but don't "pay" for earning future ones.
A "Five Star" game is a unit that offers single-hand versions of popular multi-line games including DreamCard, Quick Quads, Super Times Pay, and Ultimate X.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI know this, trust me! ;-)
As GWAE pointed out, the return is higher. My statement was about the player edge only, not the return.
Figured you did. Just wanted to make sure it didn't accidentally mislead others who might misinterpret what you wrote. I feel like the way you wrote it might think that betting one on the multiplier hand(s) is the better play "money-wise" when it's generally not.
Quote: GWAEbut these are 1 time shots so I think it is best to take a 300% edge for $3.75 than it is taking a 400% edge for $0.25. The edge may be higher on 1 hand for 1 coin but the overall return is higher playing all hands for 5 coins. But I guess you already know that.
I agree.
quit trying to confuse newbs u might confuse yourself in the process.Quote: IbeatyouracesOddly, your edge is larger playing just the first hand with a multiplier on a three play machine with one credit than it is playing all three with five credits.
Don't play less then 5 coins juat don't do it.
Quote: AxelWolfquit trying to confuse newbs u might confuse yourself in the process.
Don't play less then 5 coins juat don't do it.
Thanks everyone for your responses. May I ask, if you play five coins, since there are next hand multipliers, then you must play all hands for five coins? And if this is basically all I need to know I'm good with that. I'm guessing that with a 12 x multiplier you would want to play 10 coin? You may get next hand multipliers and you're exploiting the 12 x multipliers ( even though you are playing other hands without multipliers at a negative expectation?
Quote: GreasyjohnThanks everyone for your responses. May I ask, if you play five coins, since there are next hand multipliers, then you must play all hands for five coins? And if this is basically all I need to know I'm good with that. I'm guessing that with a 12 x multiplier you would want to play 10 coin? You may get next hand multipliers and you're exploiting the 12 x multipliers ( even though you are playing other hands without multipliers at a negative expectation?
No, still play five. What's the reasoning behind generating multipliers for the next hand?
Quote: tringlomaneNo, still play five. What's the reasoning behind generating multipliers for the next hand?
Okay. I can just play 5. The reasoning, probably incorrect, in playing 10 is the double payout on the multiplier ( or 12 times!, and you are eligible for future multipliers. I would assume that if you got next hand multipliers that's good ( otherwise why would someone vulture them).
Quote: tringlomaneNo, still play five. What's the reasoning behind generating multipliers for the next hand?
Deleted by poster (same post as above--poor cell service!).
Quote: FinsRuleSomeone wrote that it was a red flag to play one hand and leave. Can someone elaborate? Just don't use your card, right?
Of all the AP plays that generate heat, ultimate X vulturing should be the least of your worries. Casinos do not give a flying rat's ass about players Ultimate X vulturing. I ve done it openly in front of casino personnel and they always seemed completely disinterested. It's not cheating/thievery and it doesn't take money away from their coffers.
Quote: GreasyjohnOkay. I can just play 5. The reasoning, probably incorrect, in playing 10 is the double payout on the multiplier ( or 22 times!, and you are eligible for future multipliers. I would assume that if you got next hand multipliers that's good ( otherwise why would someone vulture them).
Double payout? Yeah, that's the disconnect. The first five credits are for the value of the current video poker hand (with or without multipliers), the second five credits are for the privilege of creating multipliers for the next hand. You don't get any extra payout beyond the multipliers by betting 10 instead of 5.
Quote: Swanson234Of all the AP plays that generate heat, ultimate X vulturing should be the least of your worries. Casinos do not give a flying rat's ass about players Ultimate X vulturing. I ve done it openly in front of casino personnel and they always seemed completely disinterested. It's not cheating/thievery and it doesn't take money away from their coffers.
That's what I thought, which is why I was wondering what the person was talking about.
Quote: FinsRuleSomeone wrote that it was a red flag to play one hand and leave. Can someone elaborate? Just don't use your card, right?
I've been using my card at the local casino for vulturing. I haven't been red flagged because of it yet. But I do play other stuff too (~6 hours of live poker last trip for instance and a couple of hours of other 99%+ VP).
You can take his advice if you wish. Hell, be blatant about it.Quote: FinsRuleThat's what I thought, which is why I was wondering what the person was talking about.
Or
It does take money from the casinos your taking money from the ploppies who would normally get that money and lose it back. AP's are walking out the door with it.
IF CASINOS DON'T CARE WHY ARE THEY FINDING WAYS TO MAKE IT DISAPPEAR? You cant seriously think they are doing it just to keep the extra money. Ask Drich I think he said they want to make all crap AP proof now.
I know at least 4 people that have been tossed out of casinos for this. Especially in the high limit room's. It all depends on the casino(Luxor was one) . I have never heard of a banking or vulturing type machine that was well known that has not has some kind of heat at one time or another. Flush Attack was very notorious for this, Vision machines, Indiana Jones, Globe shopping, Net pay, Stamps, Bingo slots, Bonus run, etc etc.
Anything that attracts Hustlers in the casino can catch heat. They don't want that element period.
I'm not saying they have undercover security guards dedicated to watching the UX machines. The chances might be low you will ever have a problem. AC your probably fine. If this is your main play I probably would not worry about getting 86ed from a casino for this. Personally I'm not risking losing a casino By blatantly poking 15 machines, dozens of times, in hopes of finding an occasional play.
Also some casinos are aware of the UX people scam/con. and are a bit more jumpy, I have whiteness this in action a few times. I had once guy try to pull it on me. Con man cons ploppie into building up multipliers somehow (usually he guarantees them they will win) He then cleans them up himself.
If anyone wants to make a wager and test the theory, I know a few high limit rooms we >YOU< can spend some time at checking UX machines.
Blatant non caring attitudes like that is what makes this crap go away.
Some Bonus Games were very popular and a huge money makers for the casino. Some locations particular machines lasted for 10 years. Some Casinos didn't just want hustlers and yanked them for only that reason
.
Quote: Swanson234and it doesn't take money away from their coffers.
Not exactly correct. A vulture is much more likely to play correct strategy, leading to higher payouts to the vulture than the random ploppy who might come along and hold 2 pair in DW.
Quote: RSHmmmmm.......here's a funky question. What happens if you bet 6 per line? Or can you not bet 6 per line? Are your only options to bet 1,2,3,4,5 or 10 per line? Not able to bet 6,7,8, or 9 per line?
It'll skip 6-9 to 10. The extra bet is only for the ultimate x option, and not for progressively tiered royals.
Quote: IbeatyouracesNot always true but for most machines yes. The ones where you must bet a minimum of $x.xx will allow you to bet 7+ credits per line but you'll only get paid as if you bet five credits less. An example is you bet 8 per line. Winners are paid as if you bet 3 per line. Here's proof. Minimum bet is $1.00
did you edit this before you responded to this ;) I read the entire statement. And I almost said, do you promise ;).Quote: IbeatyouracesI NEVER said you shouldn't play 5 credits. And no, I'll never confuse myself.
I hope you are joking about everything you just said.... as we all love and respect you.Quote: IbeatyouracesQuote: AxelWolfdid you edit this before you responded to this ;) I read the entire statement. And I almost said, do you promise ;).Quote: IbeatyouracesNot always true but for most machines yes. The ones where you must bet a minimum of $x.xx will allow you to bet 7+ credits per line but you'll only get paid as if you bet five credits less. An example is you bet 8 per line. Winners are paid as if you bet 3 per line. Here's proof. Minimum bet is $1.00
Yeah but only to show this and why I think these games should only have a minimum bet equal to five credits x the number of max hands. In this case, the min bet should be set at 75 cents. But I have no intentions on being helpful to anyone here any longer. In fact I will start to encourage losing gamblers to lose more. Hell, maybe I'll turn to the dark side!
Quote: AxelWolfI hope you are joking about everything you just said.... as we all love and respect you.
Yeah, this. I'm bad with internet sarcasm.
And I have never seen a UX set up to bet somewhere between 6 and 9 credits. Wouldn't that be a horrible idea though? And some of those bets may be below 75%, 80%, etc? You should never be betting 5 for the multipliers if you aren't getting the value of a 5 credit hand right?
obviously.Quote: tringlomaneYeah, this. I'm bad with internet sarcasm.
And I have never seen a UX set up to bet somewhere between 6 and 9 credits. Wouldn't that be a horrible idea though? And some of those bets may be below 75%, 80%, etc? You should never be betting 5 for the multipliers if you aren't getting the value of a 5 credit hand right?
Quote: tringlomaneNo, still play five. What's the reasoning behind generating multipliers for the next hand?
Or worse, NOT generating multipliers for the next hand.
Quote: GreasyjohnOkay. I can just play 5. The reasoning, probably incorrect, in playing 10 is the double payout on the multiplier ( or 12 times!, and you are eligible for future multipliers. I would assume that if you got next hand multipliers that's good ( otherwise why would someone vulture them).
All pays are based on a five-credit bet, and the extra five is for the Ultimate X feature. Since all pays (including those with multipliers) are based on a five credit bet, you never want to bet more than five credits.
Quote: Mission146All pays are based on a five-credit bet, and the extra five is for the Ultimate X feature. Since all pays (including those with multipliers) are based on a five credit bet, you never want to bet more than five credits.
Thanks Mission, I made an edit to my earlier post ( see page 2 ) and understand that now.
Quote: beerseasonI tried playing UX at Hollywood Joliet but when I found a multiplier on it and played it basically reset so i wouldn't get the multiplier, also did this to me at Harrahs AC 6 months ago. Did I do something wrong? Or do some casinos do this to stop vulturing?
Sorry to post this again, I didn't see a reply, thought maybe it got overlooked... I still am unsure if I did something wrong, or some machines are made to not allow vulturing.
