IGT Video Poker Programming
Anyone have any thoughts about this? Thanks
You are having a problem with human perception, happens all the time.
I watched a player at a VP terminal once at the Seminole Hard Rock, in 2007. Back then, they were a Class II casino, and all of the results were based on bingo outcomes. These games did not deal a fair game of poker. I realized what was going on when a fairy flew across the screen and corrected the cards.
In mid 2008, they changed to Class III games, which are fair.
Quote: CrystalMathIn mid 2008, they changed to Class III games, which are fair.
Is it possible that they could still offer both?
I doubt they do, but I've never been there. And from what I have heard about the Hard Rock in Tampa paytables there from others, rigging of the machines definitely seems quite unnecessary.
Quote: tringlomaneIs it possible that they could still offer both?
I doubt they do, but I've never been there. And from what I have heard about the Hard Rock in Tampa paytables there from others, rigging of the machines definitely seems quite unnecessary.
I just read that some tribes have not signed compacts with the state for class III, so they still operate class II games. I'm not sure if one casino would or could offer both.
Don't trust anything outside the state of NevedaQuote: CrystalMathI just read that some tribes have not signed compacts with the state for class III, so they still operate class II games. I'm not sure if one casino would or could offer both.
Quote: CrystalMathI just read that some tribes have not signed compacts with the state for class III, so they still operate class II games. I'm not sure if one casino would or could offer both.
I've been to Hard Rock Tampa quite a bit in the past year, and have never seen (while playing or watching) the "fairy" that gives you a different win than what was possible from your held cards, so I doubt there are any II left there at least.
Quote: JIMMYFOCKERDon't trust anything outside the state of Neveda
That may be a little harsh, let's just not trust them tribal casinos, after all I am a bigot.
Quote: JIMMYFOCKERDon't trust anything outside the state of Neveda
Quote: DeMangoThat may be a little harsh, let's just not trust them tribal casinos, after all I am a bigot.
I agree. It's actually an insult to my home state of Missouri, whose laws are half-copied from Nevada, along with many other Midwest states. I assume it was a bit of a joke, but if not, it's terribly narrow-sighted.
Quote: cclub79I've been to Hard Rock Tampa quite a bit in the past year, and have never seen (while playing or watching) the "fairy" that gives you a different win than what was possible from your held cards, so I doubt there are any II left there at least.
Have you seen people play badly enough for the fairy to appear though? lol But I'm pretty sure you're right though that there isn't any Class II left, you don't see any units with electronic bingo cards on them, do you?
Quote: CrystalMathI just read that some tribes have not signed compacts with the state for class III, so they still operate class II games. I'm not sure if one casino would or could offer both.
The Florida Indian casinos do, in fact, ALL have class II machines mixed in with class III machines, and you have to carefully look at them to see which you are playing. The Class II machines are playing bingo, at bingo odds, with all other class II machines in the building. There is usually (but not always) a very small icon in one corner which you can click or select somehow (depends on the game) in order to show you the bingo game in which you are actually competing. Yet another reason I refuse to gamble in Florida Indian casinos. It's entirely possible that one or more of them ONLY have Class II; last I saw the Mikkosukke (sp) tribe's casino was that way, but it's been several years since I walked around inside.
Quote: onenickelmiracleSeneca Niagara has little Christmas trees lit up near card readers to alert people the machines are class III and not II like they apparently started with. Has anyone ever seen those?
Sounds odd...lol And NY is the one state that is backwards. State-run racinos, video poker not from a random deck. Indian casinos, can have poker from a random deck.
Outside of Nevada, one always has to question if a VP game is on the level, those are the facts.Quote: tringlomaneSounds odd...lol And NY is the one state that is backwards. State-run racinos, video poker not from a random deck. Indian casinos, can have poker from a random deck.
Quote: tringlomaneSounds odd...lol And NY is the one state that is backwards. State-run racinos, video poker not from a random deck. Indian casinos, can have poker from a random deck.
Class II machines just can't whether bingo or VLTs. They're simulations of slot machines and cannot be slot machines just because they want to. The law is the basis for their existence and they must stay within the loophole. The thing is with NA casinos is they are bound by compacts and the NA law of 1988 which I can't remember the name of it. State run places can't be so bold to totally violate their own constitutions and the NA places aren't bound to them.
Quote: onenickelmiracleClass II machines just can't whether bingo or VLTs. They're simulations of slot machines and cannot be slot machines just because they want to. The law is the basis for their existence and they must stay within the loophole. The thing is with NA casinos is they are bound by compacts and the NA law of 1988 which I can't remember the name of it. State run places can't be so bold to totally violate their own constitutions and the NA places aren't bound to them.
Well, yes, they are basically slot machine simulations, but technically the results are determined by the results of a bingo game vs. other patrons in the casino. But the distribution of prizes are very unrestrictive, so it's not difficult to make the machines to award prizes mimicking slot machines. It's pretty much an outdated, and pretty stupid, law.
And in New York, they do allow Indian casinos to offer Class III, but their Racinos use VLTs that don't offer random video poker (unlike Maryland and Oregon that do offer random VP with VLTs). Why New York is completely retarded in this regard is beyond me. Stupid lawmaking I guess.
http://www.gaming.ny.gov/gaming/
Quote: JIMMYFOCKEROutside of Nevada, one always has to question if a VP game is on the level, those are the facts.
It is my understanding that Louisiana reg's are stricter than Nevada reg's with respect to the fairness of games resembling live games. Can't speak to specifics in other states.
No, false.Quote: camaplIt is my understanding that Louisiana reg's are stricter than Nevada reg's with respect to the fairness of games resembling live games. Can't speak to specifics in other states.
Quote: camaplIt is my understanding that Louisiana reg's are stricter than Nevada reg's with respect to the fairness of games resembling live games. Can't speak to specifics in other states.
Quote: JIMMYFOCKERNo, false.
It is on some points.
Louisiana Sec. 2413:
k. games which shall be random and shall be tested to at least a 99 percent certainty using a standard correlation test or analysis (a correlation test or analysis for purposes of this Section is defined as the process by which each card or number position is chosen independently without regard to any other card or number drawn within that game play)
Laws downloaded from here:
http://lgcb.dps.louisiana.gov/laws.html#statuts
Some other states require 99% certainty as well.
Nevada Sec. 14.040:
2. Must use a random selection process to determine the game outcome of each play of a
game. The random selection process must meet 95 percent confidence limits using a standard
chi-squared test for goodness of fit.
http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=2957
Now, does it matter? Probably not. Virtually all machines are likely 99%+ certain. You seem to not trust states outside of Nevada, but I personally think some Nevada regulations are quite vague/outdated versus some other states. Nevada (and every other state) should use the 99% certainty criterion, imo.
