Super Aces VP Strategy Chart ?

I usually play JoB or DW using the strategy
charts on the WoO website.

But I would like to try full pay Super Aces
because it has a lower house advantage.

1-1-3-4-5-8-50-80-400-60-800

Does anyone know where a simplified
strategy chart can be found ?

Or do you pretty much keep any Ace
you get ?

THANKS.

I don't know how simplified you want it but you can generate the strategy on the wizard's site. https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/calculator/

Larwiz / Wiz:

Exactly what I was looking for !

thanks

Be careful with money management for this game Johnny. A lot of that return is lumped into those Aces (9.5%!). Much swingier than JoB or DW!

Appreciate that.

I didn't see a variance # on the WoO site,
so I'm not sure how it stacks up against
JoB or DW.

So.....

I've misplaced my VP training software,
but if anyone is familiar with Super
Aces, the WoO strategy chart shows
a pr of J, Q, K better than a pair of
2 thru 10's.

That doesn't make sense to me unless
the EV is negligible (sp ?).

Super Aces WoO StrategyCalculator

I am thinking about making a trip to
Horseshoe Southern Indiana to play
this game, which isn't available
closer to where I live as far as I
know.

Are you planning on playing this game for five million hands on your visit? If not, it's no more scarier a game than job, and you have so many opportunities to hit big winners.

Well with a bank roll of $ 100 (yeah, I know, maybe
a LITTLE more than that), that would be something
between about 50 and 5 million hands methinks.

Quote: JohnnyQ

I've misplaced my VP training software,
but if anyone is familiar with Super
Aces, the WoO strategy chart shows
a pr of J, Q, K better than a pair of
2 thru 10's.

That doesn't make sense to me unless
the EV is negligible (sp ?).

Um...a pair of Jacks thru Kings guarantees your money back, but a pair of 2s-10s doesn't? ;)

Quote: JohnnyQ

Well with a bank roll of $ 100 (yeah, I know, maybe
a LITTLE more than that), that would be something
between about 50 and 5 million hands methinks.

Yikes, you're going to go broke a lot at $2.50/hand here (50c machines and higher are the only full pay machines). If you are looking to maximize time being there, I definitely play JoB for $1.25/hand.

Also when I went to Southern Indiana for the Race to Rewards, I failed to find these 8/5 Super Aces machines. I may have misread the vpFree description on placement though. I did nicely on the 9/6 JoB machines though. :)

Super Aces will play like a crappy Double Double Bonus (DDB) Machine except when you hit the Aces.

Variance of Super Aces vs. common poker games:
8/5 Super Aces is 63.38 bets/hand.
9/6 DDB is 41.98 bets/hand.
"Not So Ugly Ducks" is 25.78 bets/hand.
9/6 JoB is 19.51 bets/hand.

I am going to do a risk of ruin calculation for 1500 hands for 8/5 Super Aces at 50c and 9/6 JoB for both 25c and 50c.

Here are the results for Super Aces (5000 Sims) starting with a 40-unit bankroll ($100/$2.50 = 40 units):
Winnings listed in terms of final amount of money in front of you in betting units (1 unit = $2.50 where 40 units = "break even"):
Results
Sims 5000.0000000
ROI % -0.0609136
SD 7.9600267
Sim. Ruin % 90.1000000
Sim. Win % 0.0000000
% of Royalless Sims 98.8000000
% of Aceless Sims 93.0400000
RoR without Aces 90.1000000

$`Win/Loss Summary`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0.0 0.0 0.0 42.1 0.0 1563.0

$`Summary of Play length`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
60.0 126.0 184.0 388.4 418.0 1500.0

$`Summary of Royals`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0.000 0.000 0.000 0.012 0.000 1.000

$`Summary of Aces`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0908 0.0000 3.0000


You have a 90.1% risk of losing that $100 before hitting 1500 hands. Basically, if you don't hit the Aces, you're sunk on that tiny of a roll. The median session is only 184 hands!

Playing 9/6 JoB instead at $2.50/hand instead:
Results
Sims 5000.0000000
ROI % -0.4560956
SD 4.4175419
Sim. Ruin % 72.2600000
% of Royalless Sims 98.2200000

$`Win/Loss Summary`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0.00 0.00 0.00 36.17 26.00 1689.00

$`Summary of Play length`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
62.0 290.8 621.5 789.4 1500.0 1500.0

$`Summary of Royals`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0186 0.0000 2.0000

Here the median session lasts 621.5 hands, and you will play the full 1500-hand session 27.74% of the time (RoR = 72.26%). But a little over 25% you're going to be playing 300 hands or less.

The extra benefit of playing 9/6 JoB, you can move down to quarters, giving yourself 80 betting units instead of 40. (So breaking even equals ending the session with 80 units)

Results
Sims 5000.0000000
ROI % -0.4560956
SD 4.4175419
Sim. Ruin % 42.7800000
% of Royalless Sims 96.7000000


$`Win/Loss Summary`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0.00 0.00 33.00 77.82 98.00 1656.00

$`Summary of Play length`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
208.0 926.8 1500.0 1225.0 1500.0 1500.0

$`Summary of Royals`
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0332 0.0000 2.0000

Now you are completing a 1500 hand session over 50% of the time, and over 926 hands 75% of the time. You have a risk of ruin of only 42.78%.

Personally, I'm bringing a few hundred bucks minimum to play Super Aces, especially if this is further away from your home casino. Gas and driving time has value too!!!

Quote: tringlomane

Um...a pair of Jacks thru Kings guarantees your money back, but a pair of 2s-10s doesn't? ;)!!!

Yeah, I'm not normally that completely oblivious, but I
had my blinders on pretty tight apparently, focusing
on the 4 of a Kind paying higher for the other
combinations.

Thanks. Very Obvious in hindsight.

I know sometimes VPFREE2 is not up to date, so
that would be a bummer to drive that far and then
find they don't have Full Pay Super Aces at 0.50
afterall.

Maybe I'll put that out there to see if anyone
can confirm one way or the other. I was at
HSI right after Christmas and did pretty well
on the 9/6 JoB.

The first time I was HSI was also to do the
Race to Rewards last summer.

Super Aces Bonus is a tough game to win, but when you get lucky you can win big.

If you like Double Double Bonus then you might like Super Aces Bonus better because you don't need the kicker with quad aces for the 2,000 coin payoff.

But Super Aces Bonus lacks the smaller jackpots that come with kickers on 2s, 3s, and 4s.

Before playing Super Aces Bonus I would check the pay table on Double Double Bonus. At Harrah's Rincon casino all of the Double Double Bonus games were reduced to an 8/5 Pay Table, but the Super Aces Bonus pay table is the "full pay version." So if you would otherwise be a DDB player, you should be playing SAB instead.

The exception at Rincon would be if you are on a royal flush jackpot game on DDB and then only if the royal is exceptionally big.

Years ago, Morongo near Palm Springs did not have double double bonus but the casino was loaded with SAB machines which probably were the most popular VP machines in the place. I don't know what it's like now -- I havent been there in about four years.

At Pechanga, the $5 Super Aces Bonus machines do not pay $1200 on 4oaks but instead pay $1195 which is just under the threshhold for a W2G. Some of you might prefer that but it does cut into the return slightly.

Quote: JohnnyQ

I know sometimes VPFREE2 is not up to date, so
that would be a bummer to drive that far and then
find they don't have Full Pay Super Aces at 0.50
afterall.

Maybe I'll put that out there to see if anyone
can confirm one way or the other. I was at
HSI right after Christmas and did pretty well
on the 9/6 JoB.

The first time I was HSI was also to do the
Race to Rewards last summer.

I used to report good games and conditions to VPFree2 and their messageboards but not anymore.

The admin is a first class hypocrite. They have this policy of where you can't belittle people and this a-hole Harry Porter gets away with belittling everyone. The admin doesn't ban Harry Porter. Yes, I got a private email from Harry Porter when he realized he was being a-hole.

At the end of the day, all you have are APs who use the site to burn out the good games. In 2008, they wiped out numerous games and opportunities in Reno. It was so sad.

Someone needs to alert RogerKint about this thread . . . he might have something to say.

Teddy gave me a shout-out on the show for hitting a few huge (for me) jackpots on this game. He and MustangSally (RIP) were vital in helping me understand the bankroll requirements/variance with this game. Basically, stick to JoB unless you have a replenishable bankroll and have the discipline to keep a tight stop-loss.

The trick to beating this game is to say this joke to yourself before you begin:
"Do you even f__cking know how much an Ace is worth in hi-lo? Do you even f__cking keep a side count?" - bizarro Wizard.

Full-pay Super Aces strategy is somewhat similar to 9/6 Job with some intuitive exceptions 'cause it's all about the Aces. To oversimply it you go for inside straight draws instead of redrawing, hold only the Ace (unless it's suited with another high card), go for inside straight draws that contain high cards (like the other bonus games), break up two pairs that contain a pair of Aces and break up Aces-full to go for that 4th Ace.

I've played this game multiline, $5 denom. and hit 4 Aces three times within a few hundred hands. I'm done playing it until the next loss rebate. Hopefully, you have the same positive variance with this game that I did.

Quote: RogerKint

He (teddys) and MustangSally (RIP) were vital in helping me understand the bankroll requirements/variance with this game.

Can you link this thread if you can find it? Also re-reading MustangSally's last posts, I am not thrilled about why she left (right before I started to post, figures). I wish she would have just blocked posts instead of ceasing to post. I have read some of her old posts on 2+2, and it's often great, detailed math and her not being active is a HUGE loss to any gambling forum. With her math skills, I was shocked to read her field was biology to be honest (bioinformatics, maybe).

And nice quad Aces hits on this variance cluster****!

The Eureka has quarter triple-play by the front door.