GENERAL Video Poker question ?

When you play video poker online (not for money) and you see a 9/6 payout schudule for jacks or better is that game going to truely play like a 99.54% pay
out game ?
I guess in other words is the 9/6 schudule one in the same as a 99.54% pay back ?

LAST but not least HOW Sure are you THAT these games play like a 9/6 game in a real brick and motor casino ?
One of my friends SWEARS he was playing jacks or better 9/6 in atlantic city and tracked his chances at 1 card to a flush (which is a 1 in 4 chance)
and the machine gave him exactly ZERO flushes in 55 chances at it.......whats with that ?
to make it worse he tracked his 1 card to a full house chances 1 in 6 and the machine gave him 1 full house in 59 trys .......frankly i know him not to be a liar and i am not so sure these machines are on the up and up.....so i guess thats 2 questions i had.


ONE LAST THING it has NOT eluded me that the casinos dont offer jacks or better as a table game.....to me that screams that the casinos know on a true 99.54% pay back there are at least more then a handful of players that would wreck them on such a table.

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Under the premise that all cards are dealt fair, the house edge depends on the payout table *and* the players strategy.
Poor player strategy results in non-optimal payback.

Futher, a 1 card to a flush doesn't have a chance of 1 in 4. There are 47 cards remaining to be drawn, while only 9 of them have your suit. Its 9 in 47 - its a little worse than 1 in 5.

I doublt your "friend" has much clue about this game.

yes my bad.... a flush is 1 in 5.22 and yes the full house is 11.75 to 1....so those math errors were mine NOT my friends.
and to get back to the basic question the machine did seem to deal him a run WAY OUTSIDE an expected deviant.

Quote: playstkid

ONE LAST THING it has NOT eluded me that the casinos dont offer jacks or better as a table game.....to me that screams that the casinos know on a true 99.54% pay back there are at least more then a handful of players that would wreck them on such a table.

Optimal strategy, with absolutely no errors, would result in the casino WINNING $4.60 for every $1000 bet. If the casino winning that little is being 'wrecked', then you are correct.

i think one of my TWO ? were not answered....do you find my friends bad run WAY OUTSIDE the expected deviant and TWO have you guys ever charted actual numbers that put you in the same "bogus luck" range in a real casino.

I also happen to agree with soopoo about the 4.60 loss per 1000 bet.........funny but when i play online i play at a return of right around 99%.....when i go to a real brick and motor casino my return WITH THE SAME STRATERGY is no where near that.....frankly i think the machines are set to about a 95% return no matter what that 9/6 schudule is telling me.

I suspect it's been tried as a table game, and it just wasn't found to be that fun.

I'm probably going to play some video poker at Mohegan tomorrow evening. I'll keep track of my flush/straight/boat draws and get back to you, although I suspect I'll only be playing enough to see single digits.

Quote: playstkid

i think one of my TWO ? were not answered....do you find my friends bad run WAY OUTSIDE the expected deviant and TWO have you guys ever charted actual numbers that put you in the same "bogus luck" range in a real casino.

I also happen to agree with soopoo about the 4.60 loss per 1000 bet.........funny but when i play online i play at a return of right around 99%.....when i go to a real brick and motor casino my return WITH THE SAME STRATERGY is no where near that.....frankly i think the machines are set to about a 95% return no matter what that 9/6 schudule is telling me.

At every casino? Or just one that you happen to play at? So you are saying the casinos all are risking their gaming licenses, all at the same time, all without a single disgruntled former employee ever making a peep, and have been doing so for years, if not decades? Sounds reasonable to me.

Quote: 24Bingo

I suspect it's been tried as a table game, and it just wasn't found to be that fun.

It'd be sooooo slow as a table game. Can you imagine each hand taking over a minute? And not being able to deal more than one-on-one?

Ugh.

Quote: playstkid

One of my friends SWEARS he was playing jacks or better 9/6 in atlantic city and tracked his chances at
1 card to a flush (which is a 1 in 4 chance)
and the machine gave him exactly ZERO flushes in 55 chances at it.......whats with that ?

to make it worse he tracked his 1 card to a full house chances
1 in 6 and the machine gave him 1 full house in 59 trys

If you think a casino is cheating you at VP, you are not alone.
But why continue to play there?

An online casino can cheat any player, and they have in the past.

A land based casino can cheat players and have so in the past, even in Nevada.
Google "licence to steal American Coin"

IF I owned VP machines and I wanted to rig them so I could make even more money, I would make certain rare hands not hit.
IMO, Easily done in this computer age.
Even Easier at some casinos, like Indian run, than others.
Right?. The fox looking out for the chickens.

To answer your questions
The chance of getting NO flushes in 55 attempts is 1 in 119,477
The chance of getting 0 or 1 FH in 59 attempts is 1 in 29.31

Quote: thecesspit

It'd be sooooo slow as a table game. Can you imagine each hand taking over a minute? And not being able to deal more than one-on-one?

Ugh.

What's more, it just occurred to me that at such a narrow margin, with shoe play impossible, it'd be highly susceptible to AP. Dealing face down would be a no-brainer, but even then just seeing who was taking how many cards would be a sure tell, just like in real draw poker. Plus you couldn't go above five hands.

Quote: 7craps

If you think a casino is cheating you at VP, you are not alone.
But why continue to play there?

An online casino can cheat any player, and they have in the past.

A land based casino can cheat players and have so in the past, even in Nevada.
Google "licence to steal American Coin"

IF I owned VP machines and I wanted to rig them so I could make even more money, I would make certain rare hands not hit.
IMO, Easily done in this computer age.
Even Easier at some casinos, like Indian run, than others.
Right?. The fox looking out for the chickens.

To answer your questions
The chance of getting NO flushes in 55 attempts is 1 in 119,477
The chance of getting 0 or 1 FH in 59 attempts is 1 in 29.31

Thanks for your input...getting back to what i was saying ITS NOT THAT I FOUND LOSING surprising rather what was surprising was THE RATE i lost at.....when i played practice games on line the % return was in a whole different zip code from what happened in AC....AND YES THEY were BOTH 99.54% return games

if you're good player which i know i am..... and if you're playing at about 99% return which i do consistently online it should take you in excess of 3 hours to deplete over 50% of your bank roll.....NOT 30 OR 40 MINS !

Re the other half of this question... it WAS a table game at Foxwoods in the early 90's. 1-2-3-4-5-6-25-100-800 payout. $5 a hand only. S-L-O-W play as there were 5 spots to deal. Must hold 1 card rule IIRC.

Quote: 98Clubs

Re the other half of this question... it WAS a table game at Foxwoods in the early 90's. 1-2-3-4-5-6-25-100-800 payout. $5 a hand only. S-L-O-W play as there were 5 spots to deal. Must hold 1 card rule IIRC.

when the casino sets Such a low max bet isnt that pretty much their way of saying we know this game can be beat.

Quote: 98Clubs

Re the other half of this question... it WAS a table game at Foxwoods in the early 90's. 1-2-3-4-5-6-25-100-800 payout. $5 a hand only. S-L-O-W play as there were 5 spots to deal. Must hold 1 card rule IIRC.

when the casino sets Such a low max bet isnt that pretty much their way of saying we know this game can be beat.

I have seen luck as bad as yours and actually much worse on a regular basis. You are suffering from the nasty side of variance and all the skill in the world won't help against that. As an example, I've played a documented 2400 hands without a single quad in both online practice and brick and mortar casinos. You really get an education on variance if you play as a team. On one of my recent trips, my wife and I were playing side by side at the same game and my session bankroll that usually will last 6 hours of play was almost wiped out in 2 hours. During that 2 hours, my wife hit the equivalent of 2 Royals with big bonus hands. She got 2 of those hands just 3 hands apart!!

The casino isn't cheating you, though it may feel like it when you're on the down side. Playing with my wife all the time proves to me that Lady Luck (aka Variance) can be just as good to you as bad. We should always remember that no matter what else, we are by and large playing negative expectation games and therefore we must experience more losing sessions than winning ones. Personally, I find 99.54 JoB to be about as exciting as watching paint dry. You really can't expect to ever have a positive session in that without a Royal. I'll play higher volatility games like DDB or even TDB because you have hands there that can make your day and have a much higher frequency than Royals.

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