Trip Report - VEGAS
Trip bankroll: $10k
Preferred count: SPEED COUNT
Caesars started my trip out right by picking me up with a limo at the airport...upon arriving I checked in to the new Octavius tower (although a bit of a hike to get too, well worth it) - the room was great - 46" HD TV - jacuzzi tub - comfortable bed - and great view of the strip
Thursday: I normally play $100minimum blackjack 6D, S17, DOA, DAS - however, the $100min tables on the main floor were all H17 and the tables in the Palace Court high limit area were all $500minimum on my first night...so, off I went in search of a better game...
Across the river and through the woods--oh wait, wrong story--ended up at Paris - bought in for $3k and played with two of the friendliest dealers ever - played two shoes and walked out +$1,100
Ended up watching my cousin play for a while at the $15min tables where the dealers seemed to be drawing hands at will (i.e. cousin had a 20 v. dealer 5 (dealer turns over hole card 6, then an Ace for a 12 then - drum roll please - a 9 ughhhhhhhhh what a tease))
Friday evening: Fast forward to the next day - my dad arrived so I spent time with him while he played the slots and actually hit some good payouts - after a wonderful dinner at Delmonico's Steakhouse (my favorite) - I adjourned to the Palace Court which, for some reason on a Friday night, had $100min tables WOOHOO - I bought in for $4k and introduced myself to the others at the table (an LV local woman and a doctor from Pittsburgh) - the woman played basic strategy and the good doctor played every which way (including loose)--the shoes were up and down and never really got a good count to press up so, after two shoes, I was down $200 - the next shoe brought in...as I like to call her "my nemesis" for the trip (it always seems there is someone at a table I am at that thinks their opinion is more important than anyone else's (hmmmm maybe people think that about me? nahhhhh)) - in the middle of the third shoe she sat down and began to play (YES, MIDSHOE ENTRY ALLOWED!!!) - the shoe remained up and down until I hit a good count and began pressing my bets - I won three hands in a row and the count stayed positive - however, another guy at the table and my nemesis had lost three in a row and demanded a shuffle - over my protest, the shuffle occurred - my nemesis then proceeded to lose 8 hands in a row and immediately left - however, the shoe and the count were kind to me and I left for the evening +1k
Saturday afternoon: I have never seen a casino so packed as it was on this Saturday WOW - the $100min was still in effect so I sat down to play with a buy in of my winnings thus far, $2,100 - as I turned to stretch I noticed the man at the table next to me, which was reserved, was betting only two chips - however, these chips were of the $25k variety - therefore, he was betting $50k per hand and had various piles of chips totaling about $545k - not a bad bankroll (more on this guy later)
I ended up playing three shoes, got a good run in a positive count and walked away another +$1,200
Saturday evening: Palace Court raised its minimum to $200 and, not wanting to trek down the strip again, and as I was ahead, I decided to buy in for $4k - well, this shoe was not as kind to me as my other shoes had been - down I went into the rabbit hole - at one point, I lost 12 hands in a row (however, this really got the SPEED COUNT in my favor) - so, with the count very much in my favor I put up 2 hands at $500 each - and then this happened:
Hand 1: 3,3
Hand 2: 2,3
Dealer: 5,X
Hand 1: split 3's - get another 3 - now have there 3's (hit 1st one get a K, hit 2nd one get a K, hit 3rd one get a Q)
Hand 2: 2,3 hit for a 5, hit again for a 10 (total 20)
Dealer: 5, overturns a 9 for 14 - dealer hits an Ace (15), dealer hits an Ace (16) - really really - is this going to happen with $2k on the table???) dealer hits for an 8 BUST!!!!!!!!! YAY!!! I'm back baby!!!
the count stayed with me for a few more hands and I won another +2,200
I was now +$5,500 for the trip with one day to play
Soooooo, did I play on the last day - NOPE!!! I ended up relaxing and socializing and watching others
One hand that I saw was remarkable as I had never seen it happen before - the dealer had a 2 showing, overturns another 2, then deals another 2, then another 2, then another 2, then another 2 (yes, 6 deuces in a row) and, the piece de resistance - hits a 9 for 21 ughhhhhhh
Oh yes, back to the $50 grand a hand guy - the last I saw him he was at a $10 three card poker table - a dealer I had become friendly with informed me he was down a $1.5million marker since the day before but, she informed me he was there one month ago and had won $1million
In the grand scheme of things, my $5,500 is small change BUT, it's a win with SPEED COUNT and makes my third straight trip to a casino (AC and LV) a positive trip
I would love to hear your feedback on my trip!!!
Quote: aceofspades
In the grand scheme of things, my $5,500 is small change
Please don't think that way. Anytime you can beat the
casino at its own game, its a good win. If they want to
continue to offer a game thats so easily beat, they get
what they deserve. Great job.. And pat yourself on the
back for not playing the last day. That takes real discipline,
last day play has been the downfall of many a successful trip.
Did you encounter any heat when you increased your bets late in the shoe on good counts?
Quote: MidwestAPDid you encounter any heat when you increased your bets late in the shoe on good counts?
No heat - I suppose I have a strategy (or maybe an "anti-strategy" - when I first buy in I say something like "I hope you deal them slow so I can keep the count" - this generally brings laughter from the dealer, other players and the pit boss
For example, I was debating whether to play and "my nemesis" was at the table and she won 3 hands in a row - now, I had been counting since the beginning of the shoe and the count was way high so I put my money on the table and said "the count is great, I'm coming in" - so, "my nemesis" basically berated me saying I was going to "take her cards" and asked me to sit out - now, I am one of those people who says "things happen for a reason" so, I stayed out........wouldn't you know it - she lost the next 6 hands and the dealer benefited from the high count - not her (I know it could have worked out the other way but...) karma's a bitch (especially for those concerned with the "flow of the cards" lol
Does my announcing I am going to count cards disarm the PB's - who knows - but it always makes them laugh and I never get heat :)
Quote: aceofspades
Does my announcing I am going to count cards disarm the PB's - who knows
Good question. When my wife had the antique mall, the cops
told her to watch like a hawk anybody who asked about or
made jokes about shoplifting. They were usually the shoplifters.
I would say you're just dealing with typical casino people, they
don't really care whats going on, they're thinking about their next break.
Quote: EvenBobGood question. When my wife had the antique mall, the cops
told her to watch like a hawk anybody who asked about or
made jokes about shoplifting. They were usually the shoplifters.
I would say you're just dealing with typical casino people, they
don't really care whats going on, they're thinking about their next break.
And here I was thinking I discovered a way to cool their jets!
i would NEVER use the "c" word around casino staff.
why put it in their heads?
i like to just put on my act of the confused but lovable drunk.
there to try my luck again at "twentyone"...
but, hey, whatever works for you.
i only made $2K this week so you got me beat!
Quote: aceofspadesAnd here I was thinking I discovered a way to cool their jets!
Playing dumb is always the best cover. When I
played, I barely knew the rules, let alone what a
counter was, if anybody asked. The last thing
you want is them looking at you or thinking
about you in any way.
Quote: WongBonice report, glad to hear you took a little revenge on CZR, after the BS they pulled in AC.
i would NEVER use the "c" word around casino staff.
why put it in their heads?
i like to just put on my act of the confused but lovable drunk.
there to try my luck again at "twentyone"...
but, hey, whatever works for you.
i only made $2K this week so you got me beat!
Oh yeah - it was my mission!!!
quit while you are ahead,
don't get too greedy.
it leaves the place ripe for your next visit,
(and for the next AP!)
i usually commit to playing for a certain period of time,
but will also make sure to play out a negative shoe
instead of just bolting like i used to do when i was a youngster.
i will also sometimes leave right in the middle of a positive shoe,
just to confound the skill check.
Quote: WongBothat is exactly what you should do,
quit while you are ahead,
don't get too greedy.
it leaves the place ripe for your next visit,
(and for the next AP!)
i usually commit to playing for a certain period of time,
but will also make sure to play out a negative shoe
instead of just bolting like i used to do when i was a youngster.
i will also sometimes leave right in the middle of a positive shoe,
just to confound the skill check.
OK cool _ I thought I was breaking a card counter's code by leaving in a positive shoe once I hit my $ goal
i would probably max out.
(unless it was a chain, like CZR, and was going to play them back home.)
another reason i don't like CZR. i prefer places that are operating on their own.
but hey, you took them for a nice chunk and they didn't seem to mind.
BJ forums go nuts when you say that, because every
hand counts in the long run. But there's something
to be said for the psychological boost of leaving a winner.
Reading this...I may venture into BJ territory this weekend...however at a Single-Deck $3 table, LOL.
i of course mean some where between the 65% - 75% range,
and only if it's below +2.
i may not be greedy but i'm also not crazy....
:)
Quote: rainmanExcellent acount of your trip Ace. I enjoyed the heck out of it. weather you left during a good shoe or not is of no concerne. The only concerne is if you won or lost. I can almost picture it, The aceofspades slowly exiting the gates of the evil empire, Pockets bursting with the spoils of war, The suns rays cascading down upon his face bearing the blessings of the blackjack gods.
Ahhhh Rainman - such eloquence - my next two trips will be in AC at Revel ( I have an invite next week and an invite for Opening Weekend (Memorial Day weekend) - I hope those rays of positivity are shining upon me yet again!
Quote: TIMSPEEDGood trip report!
Reading this...I may venture into BJ territory this weekend...however at a Single-Deck $3 table, LOL.
Come to the dark side!
Perhaps, but one thing is certain: Irrespective of whether someone notices your departure and realizes it is during a positive count, you are at the very least leaving the table with the casino's money. That is what winners often fail to do, so its a good thing to practice.Quote: aceofspadesOK cool _ I thought I was breaking a card counter's code by leaving in a positive shoe once I hit my $ goal
As to joking about card counting, it probably is highly dependent upon the whims of the listener. Perhaps it is a risk, perhaps not. Perhaps the real answer depends upon your acting skills and comfort. It is undoubtedly true that the dealer is looking forward to a break from the boredom, a date with the porcelain and is mentally more focused on corns and callouses than counters but why tempt fate?
Quote: aceofspadesI know this goes against what most counters would do but - once I reach a goal for a session (usually +$800 to +$1,500) I end my session - not sure if this behavior will ever garner much heat - anybody else play this way?
I quit when I'm tired or when the hands per hour drop.
I trust that you know what all the experts have said about Speed Count except for the two who sell it.
As I recall from the Golden Touch Blackjack, Speed Count thread on April 5th, you averaged over $900 per hour in Atlantic City over a one year period.
Let's break down your latest results. It looks like you played a total of 8 shoes which should have taken about 3 hours. Your winnings averaged over $1800 per hour, again using the Speed Count. A good card counter using advanced methods would be happy with $200 per hour. You were very, very lucky to have maintained positive variance at 4 separate tables.
Rather than bring up betting spreads, bankroll, index play or heat I'm going to say congratulations and I wish you continued success.
Quote: aceofspadesIn the grand scheme of things, my $5,500 is small change BUT, it's a win with SPEED COUNT and makes my third straight trip to a casino (AC and LV) a positive trip.
I would love to hear your feedback on my trip!!!
My most desired inquiry is "What is Speed Count" .... I thought all you card counters have to be able to do it at a fast pace.
My second inquiry is this "Last Day" thing. I know there is that famous sign as one is about to enter California. It simple reads "Last Chance" and has an arrow pointing to an exit. Do the various members of this board tend to avoid gambling on their final day so as to avoid any sense of desperation? I'd be more inclined to do "touristy" things or relax by the pool the very FIRST day so as to unkink oneself from the contortionist positions of air-freighted sardines or at least to get over jet lag and exhaustion. After you've readjusted sufficiently from whatever travel ordeals there might have been, then you should make full use of your time gambling.
I also don't think it is helping you blend in if that's your goal. From my observation, players that are winning, rarely get up and walk mid shoe, the exception being advantage players, whether counters, shuffle-trackers, ace-trackers who WILL leave mid shoe after their advantage is gone. The winning 'ploppie' who you are trying to emulate, generally will leave at the natural break at the shuffle. Non AP players that jump up and leave mid shoe are generally losing players that either have run out of money or suddenly become frustrated with the dealer pulling winning hands.
i think we all agree that if it is a high count you play it out.
but there is nothing wrong with leaving 6 decks into a shoe
with a count of 1 or 2 if you have made your win goal.
especially if you play alot, and win frequently.
you do have a good point that most people would just wait til the shuffle,
and that leaving early does not really add to the cover that much.
Quote: WongBohe said he walked on a positive count, not necessarily a high count.
i think we all agree that if it is a high count you play it out.
but there is nothing wrong with leaving 6 decks into a shoe
with a count of 1 or 2 if you have made your win goal.
especially if you play alot, and win frequently.
you do have a good point that most people would just wait til the shuffle,
and that leaving early does not really add to the cover that much.
Noted, WongBo. Although I still would argue that concept of 'win goal'. But whatever one is comfortable with.
Additionally, I meant to mention that any mention of counting is a bad idea. I appreciate that you (aceofspades) are trying to diffuse and lighten the situation with humor, but I think YOU bringing up the topic is not beneficial. May just get someone thinking that otherwise wouldn't have been. Now if someone else brings it up, I have at times responded with something light, like "oh I tried that a few years ago....it just doesn't work. Then again, I am not rainman".
I would think the first question would be does it detract from the cover but I fear that perhaps while you are all worrying so much about covering yourselves its quite possible that no one is looking.Quote: WongBoand that leaving early does not really add to the cover that much.
Quote: FleaStiffMy most desired inquiry is "What is Speed Count" .... I thought all you card counters have to be able to do it at a fast pace.
My second inquiry is this "Last Day" thing. I know there is that famous sign as one is about to enter California. It simple reads "Last Chance" and has an arrow pointing to an exit. Do the various members of this board tend to avoid gambling on their final day so as to avoid any sense of desperation? I'd be more inclined to do "touristy" things or relax by the pool the very FIRST day so as to unkink oneself from the contortionist positions of air-freighted sardines or at least to get over jet lag and exhaustion. After you've readjusted sufficiently from whatever travel ordeals there might have been, then you should make full use of your time gambling.
SPEED COUNT is a much-maligned counting method that requires no conversion to a true count and is admittedly not as effective as Hi-Lo, KO, or "you name it" any other counting system BUT - it has always worked for me so, despite being laughed at by nearly everyone else, I use it
For me, the "last day" comes into play when I am in a positive for the trip
Quote: kewljNoted, WongBo. Although I still would argue that concept of 'win goal'. But whatever one is comfortable with.
Additionally, I meant to mention that any mention of counting is a bad idea. I appreciate that you (aceofspades) are trying to diffuse and lighten the situation with humor, but I think YOU bringing up the topic is not beneficial. May just get someone thinking that otherwise wouldn't have been. Now if someone else brings it up, I have at times responded with something light, like "oh I tried that a few years ago....it just doesn't work. Then again, I am not rainman".
I suppose also I tend to be very social and will sit and BS with dealers and pit bosses and not "wong in" - just sit and talk, get to know people - this helps as well and when you are friendly with people, they tend to ignore your counting :)
Quote: 1BBI quit when I'm tired or when the hands per hour drop.
I trust that you know what all the experts have said about Speed Count except for the two who sell it.
As I recall from the Golden Touch Blackjack, Speed Count thread on April 5th, you averaged over $900 per hour in Atlantic City over a one year period.
Let's break down your latest results. It looks like you played a total of 8 shoes which should have taken about 3 hours. Your winnings averaged over $1800 per hour, again using the Speed Count. A good card counter using advanced methods would be happy with $200 per hour. You were very, very lucky to have maintained positive variance at 4 separate tables.
Rather than bring up betting spreads, bankroll, index play or heat I'm going to say congratulations and I wish you continued success.
1BB thanks for the well-wishes - and, according to my host - I played approximately 4 1/2 hours
Congrats on a great trip. I also use Speed Count at a much smaller bankroll and have had good success also. I can play relaxed, chat, and still have a handle on when to increase my bet or, just as importantly, when a shoe has gone so negative that it would be better to sit out a few hands or simply leave. As you've noticed, some people seem irritated by speed count, but it suits me just fine. Thanks for writing your report.
--Joe
Quote: joehypnosisAce:
Congrats on a great trip. I also use Speed Count at a much smaller bankroll and have had good success also. I can play relaxed, chat, and still have a handle on when to increase my bet or, just as importantly, when a shoe has gone so negative that it would be better to sit out a few hands or simply leave. As you've noticed, some people seem irritated by speed count, but it suits me just fine. Thanks for writing your report.
--Joe
Irritated? No. Concerned? Yes.
There are many counting methods to fit the individual goals of different players. Some are strong,some are weak and there's no denying that Speed Count is on the weaker end of the scale. The wins that aceofspades has posted are anything but typical for any counter using any method.
My concern is that someone reading this forum, someone who trusts this forum may get the impression that there is easy money to be made using this count. Nothing could be further from the truth.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/2477-golden-touch-blackjack-speed-count/
Quote: 1BBIrritated? No. Concerned? Yes.
There are many counting methods to fit the individual goals of different players. Some are strong,some are weak and there's no denying that Speed Count is on the weaker end of the scale. The wins that aceofspades has posted are anything but typical for any counter using any method.
My concern is that someone reading this forum, someone who trusts this forum may get the impression that there is easy money to be made using this count. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I would hope that anyone thinking of attempting any count understands that counting does not equal automatic wins - between bankroll, variance and dumb luck (good or bad), players have to be sure they can ride the waves that blackjack creates
My belief is that anyone intelligent enough to participate in a message board on the Wizard's website (mathematical genius he is) - would be intelligent enough to weigh the pros and cons of any counting system they come across.
As I have stated numerous times - I am +37k for 2 1/2 years - year 1 was amazing - year 2 horrible - year 3 starting out right - but years 4,5,6,7,etc. could be just as bad as year 2 - I would hope, yet again, that people are not taking my results NOR ANY other counters results as the gospel according to the gods of blackjack - you have to tailor the count to your needs, goals and bankroll.
I wish you all good luck as always!
Quote: aceofspades
My belief is that anyone intelligent enough to participate in a message board on the Wizard's website (mathematical genius he is) - would be intelligent enough to weigh the pros and cons of any counting system they come across.
Uh... NO! You haven't read posts on 'hot' numbers on roulette? You haven't read the DI debates? You haven't read the 'Craps Strategy Investment' thread? Just because a bright man, our Wiz, started this forum..... there is no IQ test for entry to this forum.
Quote: SOOPOOUh... NO! You haven't read posts on 'hot' numbers on roulette? You haven't read the DI debates? You haven't read the 'Craps Strategy Investment' thread? Just because a bright man, our Wiz, started this forum, there is no IQ test for entry to this forum.
I defer to you SOOPOO about other areas of the message boards as I have not ventured beyond the realm of Blackjack - perhaps I should open up my eyes and cross my fingers!!!
So, what would be the easiest counting method to
start with ? I'm interested in starting out with an
easy method, see if I can learn that and keep
track of the count, and then go from there.
Thoughts ?
Ace-Five ?
Quote: JohnnyQSubject Matter Experts:
So, what would be the easiest counting method to
start with ? I'm interested in starting out with an
easy method, see if I can learn that and keep
track of the count, and then go from there.
Thoughts ?
Ace-Five ?
Ace-Five is one, but off hand I would imagine it's not much better than the speed count (no evidence here, just guessing). I started with Red Seven and then switched to KISS III which are nearly identical. They're both good unbalanced counts that don't require a TC conversion, which is what gets most newbies hung up. I like the initial running counts and playing strategy of the KISS III a fair bit better than Red Seven.
KO is also a well-regarded beginner's count that's actually pretty powerful.
I was there for the Memorial Day Weekend @ the JANUGGET and some folk were saying that VP is a good deal @ the JANUGGET as well as a mention of GSR. I just was not sure what machines were the right ones to play as far as the pay scales and points earned at either of these sites As well if anyone knows of any hotspots downtown Reno and the strategical areas of play I would as well appreciate that info. As I have moved to Susanville area from Arkansas just recently and am searching for a new strategical Gambling home.
Quote: aceofspadesI'm back baby - heading back to Break Vega$ in July - who's with me?
When in July ? I will be out there 25-28
Quote: RaleighCrapsWhen in July ? I will be out there 25-28
Sunday July 28 thru Friday 08/02 !
Quote: centuryI am currently searching for an updated version of a trip report for the Reno/Sparks Nevada area.
I was there for the Memorial Day Weekend @ the JANUGGET and some folk were saying that VP is a good deal @ the JANUGGET as well as a mention of GSR. I just was not sure what machines were the right ones to play as far as the pay scales and points earned at either of these sites As well if anyone knows of any hotspots downtown Reno and the strategical areas of play I would as well appreciate that info. As I have moved to Susanville area from Arkansas just recently and am searching for a new strategical Gambling home.
As soon as TIMSPEED gets his hacked account straightend out, I am sure he will be able to provide you with lots of good info. THe JANUGGET is his home away from home.
