Is a TESLA the right car for APs
Thread Rating:
Looking for some feedback on this:
Financially:
I've been crunching some numbers recently, and the monthly payments on a TESLA model 3 are not too much more than what I spend on gas with my gas-guzzling Beemer. While most casinos now have EV charging spots in the parking lot.
Effort/Timesavings:
Autopilot, or just Autosteer seems quite appealing to me. I consider time spent focused on the road 50% non-productive, (I'm sometimes listening to podcasts or making some calls). If I leave it on autosteer in the highway parts, then I can do something more productive like emails/accounting/ learning/practicing indices...Etc or just rest a bit more.
Risk:
Charging stations: The range of Teslas isn't much worse than what I get with my gas car (350 miles), but charging stations are not as common as gas stations. I'm in California and it doesn't seem to be an issue here but I wonder if I traveled outside if it would come up.
I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Model 3 order but wondering if fellow APs have some experiences?
Note: Apologies if this doesn't fit the topic category, not sure which forum topic it should go into.
'Quote: tyler498. If I leave it on autosteer in the highway parts, then I can do something more productive like emails/accounting/ learning/practicing indices...Etc or just rest a bit more.
That is a good way to get yourself killed and hopefully states will soon take drivers licenses away for such behavior. Even on autopilot a pilot cannot just ignore the plane. A car has much more that a person needs to pay attention to. I honestly do not get these people that think self driving cars will let them totally check out from driving.
Quote: AZDuffman'
link to original post
That is a good way to get yourself killed and hopefully states will soon take drivers licenses away for such behavior. Even on autopilot a pilot cannot just ignore the plane. A car has much more that a person needs to pay attention to. I honestly do not get these people that think self driving cars will let them totally check out from driving.
Its about a slow accumulation of being able to do other activities while cars have features that lessen the need for constant intervention.
For example, your car probably has cruise control (likely even adaptive cruise control), and you probably use it every time that you drive. If your right foot is not constantly hovering over the brake pedal, you are technically putting people at risk. But, like most people you probably use it to stretch your legs, scratch your ankles, maybe even change your shoes. Its a risk that you take.
There are more modern features that allow even less driver interaction, and if you can divert this interaction to other endeavors it can be used productively. Driving is a big drain on time, and if that time in the car can be used to focus on other activities, it can benefit everyone (or at the very least cause more enjoyment for yourself). This does not mean that you pay zero attention to the road (I don't know a ton about Teslas, but I think similar cars have cameras that can autocheck if your eyes are where they should be, and will pretty quickly stop you if you are not responding to pings), but not having to use every movement for the purpose of driving can allow for other tasks even while remaining vigilant.
Even before cruise control, you could (and people did) make the same argument about the transition to automatic vehicles. People said automatic vehicle would be dangerous because people would be less involved than manual and people would get lazy/careless, even though it simply allowed you to occasionally use one hand (and have less strain on one leg) without being bound to one task while driving.... Anytime there is a massive transition that allows less attention/control people are skeptical. I am sure if you go really far back you can probably find similar arguments in the early 1900s during the transition from horses to cars.
Quote: tyler498
Risk:
Charging stations: The range of Teslas isn't much worse than what I get with my gas car (350 miles), but charging stations are not as common as gas stations. I'm in California and it doesn't seem to be an issue here but I wonder if I traveled outside if it would come up.link to original post
My understanding is that the quick charge adds about 200 miles of range, not 350.
If you're routing from supercharger to supercharger, this may be a factor.
A 15 minute break every 3 hours of driving probably isn't a horrible idea, but liquid fuels are more like a 5 minute break (fuel only; 9 minutes average with washroom & snack resupply) every 6 hours. This should be considered.
I do see EV chargers of various flavors along most major routes. The farther off the beaten path your travels take you, the more troubles you should expect.
Quote: DieterQuote: tyler498
Risk:
Charging stations: The range of Teslas isn't much worse than what I get with my gas car (350 miles), but charging stations are not as common as gas stations. I'm in California and it doesn't seem to be an issue here but I wonder if I traveled outside if it would come up.link to original post
My understanding is that the quick charge adds about 200 miles of range, not 350.
If you're routing from supercharger to supercharger, this may be a factor.
A 15 minute break every 3 hours of driving probably isn't a horrible idea, but liquid fuels are more like a 5 minute break (fuel only; 9 minutes average with washroom & snack resupply) every 6 hours. This should be considered.
I do see EV chargers of various flavors along most major routes. The farther off the beaten path your travels take you, the more troubles you should expect.link to original post
I meant 350 is what my gas car gives me, which isn't that much more than a TESLA.
And if the range allows it, I'm thinking I will very rarely need to go to a supercharger. Most of my charging would be at a casino parking lot. So saving the 5 mins stops and small detours to fill-up.
Quote: GandlerQuote: AZDuffman'
link to original post
That is a good way to get yourself killed and hopefully states will soon take drivers licenses away for such behavior. Even on autopilot a pilot cannot just ignore the plane. A car has much more that a person needs to pay attention to. I honestly do not get these people that think self driving cars will let them totally check out from driving.
Its about a slow accumulation of being able to do other activities while cars have features that lessen the need for constant intervention.
For example, your car probably has cruise control (likely even adaptive cruise control), and you probably use it every time that you drive. If your right foot is not constantly hovering over the brake pedal, you are technically putting people at risk. But, like most people you probably use it to stretch your legs, scratch your ankles, maybe even change your shoes. Its a risk that you take.
There are more modern features that allow even less driver interaction, and if you can divert this interaction to other endeavors it can be used productively. Driving is a big drain on time, and if that time in the car can be used to focus on other activities, it can benefit everyone (or at the very least cause more enjoyment for yourself). This does not mean that you pay zero attention to the road (I don't know a ton about Teslas, but I think similar cars have cameras that can autocheck if your eyes are where they should be, and will pretty quickly stop you if you are not responding to pings), but not having to use every movement for the purpose of driving can allow for other tasks even while remaining vigilant.
Even before cruise control, you could (and people did) make the same argument about the transition to automatic vehicles. People said automatic vehicle would be dangerous because people would be less involved than manual and people would get lazy/careless, even though it simply allowed you to occasionally use one hand (and have less strain on one leg) without being bound to one task while driving.... Anytime there is a massive transition that allows less attention/control people are skeptical. I am sure if you go really far back you can probably find similar arguments in the early 1900s during the transition from horses to cars.link to original post
This ^^
Also, Autopilot might not be perfect, but it is already way better and safer than the average human driver. So anyone who uses it is doing the road a favor by reducing risks associated with human driving.
I get so annoyed when people point to imperfections of autonomous driving systems and suggest that for safety we should wait for them to be perfect before we rely on them. Meanwhile, we allow humans to drive and cause a mind blowing 1.35 millions deaths a year.
If one cares about safety, I'd expect a bigger sense of urgency trying to get the humans out of the driver seat.
Quote: tyler498link to original post
I meant 350 is what my gas car gives me, which isn't that much more than a TESLA.
And if the range allows it, I'm thinking I will very rarely need to go to a supercharger. Most of my charging would be at a casino parking lot. So saving the 5 mins stops and small detours to fill-up.
I understood 350 miles as a liquid fuel range.
Recalculating from 350 miles between fuel stops to 200 miles between charging stops is a thing.
If you're the kind of player who may not stay long enough to allow the car to fully charge, that's a consideration as well.
It's less of an issue if you're not randomly driving coast to coast in pursuit of opportunity. If you're regularly in the same region, you can work out the routes with chargers at useful intervals.
I dont have a tesla but I considered one.
Some of the youtubers are driving home the same expressway everyday. Now, imagine driving cross country.
Quote: tyler498
I get so annoyed when people point to imperfections of autonomous driving systems and suggest that for safety we should wait for them to be perfect before we rely on them. Meanwhile, we allow humans to drive and cause a mind blowing 1.35 millions deaths a year.
If one cares about safety, I'd expect a bigger sense of urgency trying to get the humans out of the driver seat
0.02% of the world's population, not a huge number.
People who keep pushing autonomous cars miss the many things that will prevent it. Two autonomous cars come to a stop sign. How do they know or decide which goes first? Sudden and temporary change in the road for construction or an accident, how does the car know how to react?
I hear about how people can't wait for the car to have no controls. How does a mechanic give such a car a proper road test?
If you do not want to pay attention hire an uber.
"What's the driving range with the lights, AC and radio on?
"Well, then it's less."
Quote: TankoIn a showroom, the Tesla salesman mentioned the driving range was 260 miles on a single charge,
link to original post
"What's the driving range with the lights, AC and radio on?
"Well, then it's less."
What is it in the cold in the northeast or upper plains states?
Quote: AxelWolfI can't wait for fully autonomous electric RV's, I'm all in if that happens.
link to original post
You can still hire a chauffeur if you want.
Rock tour buses run on diesel, but you can feel meh that most of it is 10% biodiesel.
Quote: AxelWolfI can't wait for fully autonomous electric RV's, I'm all in if that happens.
link to original post
Housing will become a thing of the past, as people transition to living full-time in self-driving RVs. Your RV can drop you off at the casino, come back when you signal it, circle the city while you sleep, and drop you back at the casino when you wake up.
Rinse and repeat.
You can hit a casino in Colorado, go to sleep and wake up at a casino in New Mexico.
Quote: SOOPOOYounger son wants fully autonomous vehicle. For every accident that occurs with one of them there would be 10 with human drivers. We old guys can mention the 1000 autonomous accidents and blame the autonomous function, and ignore the 10,000 human driver accidents, because, well, accidents happen! The problem is a legal one. There is an attorney somewhere that will blame EVERY accident involving an autonomous vehicle on the autonomous functionality.
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I find younger people want them more than older people and women want them more than men. I do not get wanting to be sitting in a car driving itself. IMHO people think they are going to do all kinds of things instead of drive. Reality will probably be far different. In any case I do not see it becoming both practical and the majority of cars for 20 years by which time I will be dead and thus not care.
I used to enjoy driving far more than I should have, nowadays, I really don't enjoy it all that much. I actually dislike having to drive any longer than 45 minutes.Quote: billryanI enjoy driving, especially since I don't have to deal with congestion. I've little interest in a self-driving car, unless it could drop me off at a front door and swing by to pick me up when I'm ready. I'm semi-interested in the Tesla pickup truck but it seems to be delayed once again so by the time it comes out, my interest may have moved in another direction.
link to original post
From what I understand the Tesla self-driving isn't too good in the city, but it's fair on the highways.
Aside from the roadsters, I think they look rather boring.
Quote: billryanQuote: AxelWolfI can't wait for fully autonomous electric RV's, I'm all in if that happens.
link to original post
Housing will become a thing of the past, as people transition to living full-time in self-driving RVs. Your RV can drop you off at the casino, come back when you signal it, circle the city while you sleep, and drop you back at the casino when you wake up.
Rinse and repeat.
You can hit a casino in Colorado, go to sleep and wake up at a casino in New Mexico.link to original post
Sounds like the best investment an AP can ever make!
Quote: AZDuffman'
link to original post
That is a good way to get yourself killed and hopefully states will soon take drivers licenses away for such behavior. Even on autopilot a pilot cannot just ignore the plane. A car has much more that a person needs to pay attention to. I honestly do not get these people that think self driving cars will let them totally check out from driving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_jBmo_TIgM
Quote: tyler498As most APs outside of vegas know, it usually involves quite a bit of driving.
link to original post
Risk:
Charging stations: The range of Teslas isn't much worse than what I get with my gas car (350 miles), but charging stations are not as common as gas stations. I'm in California and it doesn't seem to be an issue here but I wonder if I traveled outside if it would come up.
I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Model 3 order but wondering if fellow APs have some experiences?
Note: Apologies if this doesn't fit the topic category, not sure which forum topic it should go into.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFSXDhBXUQg
Quote: billryanI don't believe I've ever heard their pickup described as boring.
It might give the Aztek a rub for ugliest car of our time. And looks like it was designed by yuppies who never used a truck for serious work for yuppies who will never use a truck for serious work.
Quote: billryanOr it is designed for the 80% or so of people who would never entertain owning a pickup. I'm not sure what you call serious work but demonstrations I've seen online show it can tow with the best of them. It's not for everyone but I think Elon and company go out of their way to do that.
link to original post
Look at the sides of the bed. Do they look like they were made for reaching over or tying things down to? Putting a ladder rack or cap on it?
Based on truck sales I do not think 80% would never entertain owning one. Maybe 40% would not. But yes, it is for people who are not into current trucks.
Is that truck available yet? It's interesting for sure.Quote: billryanI don't believe I've ever heard their pickup described as boring. The S was pretty unique when it came out , but has been copied to death.
link to original post
I'm not up to date on electric cars, or cars in general nowadays. Most(not all, obviously) of the new cars all look the same to me nowadays.
I agree some of model S's are cool. I was talking about the standard model type 3 I believe.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryanOr it is designed for the 80% or so of people who would never entertain owning a pickup. I'm not sure what you call serious work but demonstrations I've seen online show it can tow with the best of them. It's not for everyone but I think Elon and company go out of their way to do that.
link to original post
Look at the sides of the bed. Do they look like they were made for reaching over or tying things down to? Putting a ladder rack or cap on it?
Based on truck sales I do not think 80% would never entertain owning one. Maybe 40% would not. But yes, it is for people who are not into current trucks.link to original post
I am guessing that the majority of Pickup owners never tow anything and rarely put anything in the bed.
Quote: DRichQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryanOr it is designed for the 80% or so of people who would never entertain owning a pickup. I'm not sure what you call serious work but demonstrations I've seen online show it can tow with the best of them. It's not for everyone but I think Elon and company go out of their way to do that.
link to original post
Look at the sides of the bed. Do they look like they were made for reaching over or tying things down to? Putting a ladder rack or cap on it?
Based on truck sales I do not think 80% would never entertain owning one. Maybe 40% would not. But yes, it is for people who are not into current trucks.link to original post
I am guessing that the majority of Pickup owners never tow anything and rarely put anything in the bed.link to original post
Define “rarely.” Lots of them tow. They might just load the bed a few times a year but those who know to them it is important. Trucks also still have brand loyalty. Ford guys do not just switch.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: DRichQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryanOr it is designed for the 80% or so of people who would never entertain owning a pickup. I'm not sure what you call serious work but demonstrations I've seen online show it can tow with the best of them. It's not for everyone but I think Elon and company go out of their way to do that.
link to original post
Look at the sides of the bed. Do they look like they were made for reaching over or tying things down to? Putting a ladder rack or cap on it?
Based on truck sales I do not think 80% would never entertain owning one. Maybe 40% would not. But yes, it is for people who are not into current trucks.link to original post
I am guessing that the majority of Pickup owners never tow anything and rarely put anything in the bed.link to original post
Define “rarely.” Lots of them tow. They might just load the bed a few times a year but those who know to them it is important. Trucks also still have brand loyalty. Ford guys do not just switch.link to original post
To me rarely would be that most pickup drivers probably only use the bed of the truck 5 times a year.
Quote: DRichlink to original post
To me rarely would be that most pickup drivers probably only use the bed of the truck 5 times a year.
The thing is, that is still what they buy it for. It is the same thing on the range of an EV. EV proponents say that I only "need" to go more than 250 miles a day "a couple times a year." But the fact that I do need that range from time to time means I cannot easily make do with an EV.
I am currently wondering if I should get that little Hyundai pickup for my next vehicle instead of a Tuscon. A couple times a year I need to get something big at Home Depot or elsewhere that would use the bed. So the fact that the bed can carry a 4x8 is a major factor there. If it did not do that I would not even consider it.
Most cars have only 1 person in them most of the time, yet we still buy cars that hold 4-5 people. Why? Because sometimes you need the extra seats.
Quote: AZDuffman
I am currently wondering if I should get that little Hyundai pickup for my next vehicle instead of a Tuscon. A couple times a year I need to get something big at Home Depot or elsewhere that would use the bed. So the fact that the bed can carry a 4x8 is a major factor there. If it did not do that I would not even consider it.link to original post
Many of the home improvement stores I see will rent you a pickup truck for an hour for $20, so you can get your larger occasional purchases home.
I believe UHAUL still offers cargo vans and pickups for $20/day + mileage, but it's less convenient.
Not saying these are the best options, but they are options if you're more focused on the other 358 days a year when a truck may be less convenient.
Quote: Dieterlink to original post
Many of the home improvement stores I see will rent you a pickup truck for an hour for $20, so you can get your larger occasional purchases home.
I believe UHAUL still offers cargo vans and pickups for $20/day + mileage, but it's less convenient.
Not saying these are the best options, but they are options if you're more focused on the other 358 days a year when a truck may be less convenient.
I have seen that at THD. Uhaul will kill you on mileage charges. Thing is it is not always THD. Not always even a store. My brother saves his leaves for me to dump in my garden to compost. As does his neighbor. So I fill the back of my SUV. I know scrappers who will see an old washing machine in the trash and load it up. People who tow need it to tow. Nobody is going to go thru the hassles of renting for these kind of things. Meanwhile, the truck is not "less convenient" for most people. What you spend on extra gas would equal 1-2 rentals that you describe, if that.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: Dieterlink to original post
Many of the home improvement stores I see will rent you a pickup truck for an hour for $20, so you can get your larger occasional purchases home.
I believe UHAUL still offers cargo vans and pickups for $20/day + mileage, but it's less convenient.
Not saying these are the best options, but they are options if you're more focused on the other 358 days a year when a truck may be less convenient.
I have seen that at THD. Uhaul will kill you on mileage charges. Thing is it is not always THD. Not always even a store. My brother saves his leaves for me to dump in my garden to compost. As does his neighbor. So I fill the back of my SUV. I know scrappers who will see an old washing machine in the trash and load it up. People who tow need it to tow. Nobody is going to go thru the hassles of renting for these kind of things. Meanwhile, the truck is not "less convenient" for most people. What you spend on extra gas would equal 1-2 rentals that you describe, if that.link to original post
All fair points.
I find it less convenient to my life to have my brother in law ask me to dispose of his compost, or so and so is moving into their first apartment, or can you help me pickup firewood, or my stepfather in law upgraded stoves and still has the old one and his wife's mom's just broke 3 counties over and could I run it up to her and help her install it; this all directly led to me opting out of the truck.
Not having a truck in the driveway has dramatically reduced the number of truck related favors I am asked to provide.
You can like these sorts of things if you want, though.
Quote: DieterQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: Dieterlink to original post
Many of the home improvement stores I see will rent you a pickup truck for an hour for $20, so you can get your larger occasional purchases home.
I believe UHAUL still offers cargo vans and pickups for $20/day + mileage, but it's less convenient.
Not saying these are the best options, but they are options if you're more focused on the other 358 days a year when a truck may be less convenient.
I have seen that at THD. Uhaul will kill you on mileage charges. Thing is it is not always THD. Not always even a store. My brother saves his leaves for me to dump in my garden to compost. As does his neighbor. So I fill the back of my SUV. I know scrappers who will see an old washing machine in the trash and load it up. People who tow need it to tow. Nobody is going to go thru the hassles of renting for these kind of things. Meanwhile, the truck is not "less convenient" for most people. What you spend on extra gas would equal 1-2 rentals that you describe, if that.link to original post
All fair points.
I find it less convenient to my life to have my brother in law ask me to dispose of his compost, or so and so is moving into their first apartment, or can you help me pickup firewood, or my stepfather in law upgraded stoves and still has the old one and his wife's mom's just broke 3 counties over and could I run it up to her and help her install it; this all directly led to me opting out of the truck.
Not having a truck in the driveway has dramatically reduced the number of truck related favors I am asked to provide.
You can like these sorts of things if you want, though.link to original post
Those relate to the socialibility (is that a word?) of a person. I have known people who like having a truck to be able to help folks out. You can also make a couple bucks off of it. Some just like the social capital it brings.
It comes down to how you use your vehicle. When I haul stuff I say I am getting some "U" out of my SUV. Honestly, if feels manly when you are using your pickup or SUV to haul stuff.
Quote: AZDuffman
I am currently wondering if I should get that little Hyundai pickup for my next vehicle instead of a Tuscon. A couple times a year I need to get something big at Home Depot or elsewhere that would use the bed. So the fact that the bed can carry a 4x8 is a major factor there. If it did not do that I would not even consider it.
About 25 years ago when I bought my first house I decide to paint it. I needed to buy an extension ladder so I called a friend that had a pickup truck. He didn't answer so I drove to a car dealership, bought a pickup truck, drove straight to Home Depot and bought a ladder, went home and started painting the same day. Purely an impulse buy as I was single and already had two cars and two motorcycles. I kept the truck for four years or so but it was a foolish buy but I was able to accomplish my goal.
All of a sudden, Tesla is all they are willing to talk about. It’s the only car they will ever drive again. Everyone else is stupid for not immediately going out and purchasing one. Every other car brand is going to be extinct in 5 years. They refer to as Elon Daddy Musk.
And honestly, I would be all over it if
A) Super Chargers were as ubiquitous as gas stations
or
B) I was wealthy enough to own multiple 65k+ vehicles
The cult of Elon will argue that enough superchargers are strategically placed around the country that you can go anywhere in the country.
That might be true, but you will regularly be going 45-60 minutes out of your way to charge up on a long trip. There is nothing efficient about that.
Quote: Dieteri
Deleted. My error.
Quote: gamerfreak
The cult of Elon will argue that enough superchargers are strategically placed around the country that you can go anywhere in the country.
His cult does amaze me. Mention how ugly the dash of the Model 3 is and they say how every other car has too many bad switches and controls. Like turning on the headlights with one switch is somehow a bad idea compared to finding menus on a screen.
I feel bad for low level managers at other companies who have to listen to upper management tell them "we need to get that kind of loyalty form our customers!" Place I used to work at is probably having meetings saying that.
Quote: AZDuffmanlink to original post
Those relate to the socialibility (is that a word?) of a person. I have known people who like having a truck to be able to help folks out. You can also make a couple bucks off of it. Some just like the social capital it brings.
It comes down to how you use your vehicle. When I haul stuff I say I am getting some "U" out of my SUV. Honestly, if feels manly when you are using your pickup or SUV to haul stuff.
Also fair points.
Yes, I'm probably antisocial and jaded after years of getting asked to help some tangential acquaintance move apartments, then they keep me there until all hours of the night because they forget that I need the truck empty so I can go do my thing.
Bumper stickers that read "Yes, this is my truck, No, I won't help you move" are a thing. The stickers don't work as well as one might hope.
