Longhorn Double Jackpot Promotion

Contrary to popular opinion, I can be sworn to secrecy about plays, especially when I'm part of it. Such was the case with a double jackpot promotion at the Longhorn last Thursday. The following sign on the machines states the rules in Spanish. Below is my translation.



Double Voucher for the Top Prize

All day each Thursday in March.
If you achieve any top prize in slots, a royal flush, or at least $500 or more in keno, we will double the top prize up to $1000 in free play.

the top prize has to be verified on the screen by a team member.

*Royal flush has to be at the maximum bet.
Management reserve the right to alter or cancel this promotion at any moment.

--------

Axelwolf and I made a deal for information about the play. Several other forum members were there as well. The promotion started at midnight and I arrived early to secure a machine. Every good machine in the casino was taken and I was probably fortunate to get the one I had.

As the rules mention, free play vouchers were given for the doubled portion of any qualifying win. Much of my time was spent waiting for said vouchers. The entire casino, which is small, I think had only two employees writing them for a lot of players hitting wins the requisite $500 to $1000 range. They worked very hard and I never felt they were slow paying winners or showing favoritism to anybody.

At 5:30 AM, somebody came over the public address system to say that the promotion was cancelled per management decision. The Longhorn's sister property, the Bighorn, also ran the same promotion. I hear they cancelled it earlier, around 3:00 AM.

Today I returned to redeem my free play vouchers. My first order of business was to attempt to spend my points on Longhorn swag. I heard other players who did the promotion were informally 86'd, so I wanted to spend my points while I still could. When I presented my card at the player club desk, the woman working there said, "The manager would like to speak with you."

Immediately said manager came out to see me. He shook my hand and was very friendly. In his office, he acknowledged that in retrospect the promotion was too generous and it was a costly lesson for them to learn. He that he fully intended to honor all vouchers redeemed within a week of the promotion. The vouchers didn't state an expiration date, but he said there was one in the official rules, which I still have never seen, and they had the right to alter them. Fortunately, I redeemed them in time, per the advice of Axel.

When it was all said and done, my net profit was $7,454. I have been asked to not write about what game I played and how. Axel has requested that there not be any posts regarding the strategy for promotions such as this.

As far as I know, the promotion is still good, but only for slots. I don't perceive any value playing that game for this promotion, but maybe I'm wrong.

In closing, I'd like to thank Axel for the information. Hopefully he will share more information about his experience with it.

I am glad to hear that you participated. A promotion starting at Midnight was just too late for me.

A rumor that I heard from an employee said that they lost about $250k in those five hours. I have no idea if that is accurate or not.

Quote: DRich

A rumor that I heard from an employee said that they lost about $250k in those five hours. I have no idea if that is accurate or not.

I heard that too. I believe it, especially if it combines both "horn" properties.

Quote: Wizard

Every good machine in the casino was taken and I was probably fortunate to get the one I had.

Heh, many people live in houses bigger than that casino floor.

A few questions....
1. Were you not able to redeem the free play on the day you won it?
2. I assume you would make whatever bets the machine allowed that got you to the $500 mark even if it defied the ‘normal’ strategy for the game you were playing?
3. I assume you could bet machine max so lower type hands would get you to $500 more frequently?
4. Could you bet a lot on a game of keno that you would frequently get to the $500?
5. Mike.... the $7k you profited.... was that all $$ or was some of it ‘swag’?
6. I assume you played with a players card, or not?

Quote: Wizard

I heard that too. I believe it, especially if it combines both "horn" properties.

Yes, I believe that number was for both casinos.

Quote: Wizard

Contrary to popular opinion, I can be sworn to secrecy about plays, especially when I'm part of it. Such was the case with a double jackpot promotion at the Longhorn last Thursday. The following sign on the machines states the rules in Spanish. Below is my translation.



Double Voucher for the Top Prize

All day each Thursday in March.
If you achieve any top prize in slots, a royal flush, or at least $500 or more in keno, we will double the top prize up to $1000 in free play.

the top prize has to be verified on the screen by a team member.

*Royal flush has to be at the maximum bet.
Management reserve the right to alter or cancel this promotion at any moment.

--------

Axelwolf and I made a deal for information about the play. Several other forum members were there as well. The promotion started at midnight and I arrived early to secure a machine. Every good machine in the casino was taken and I was probably fortunate to get the one I had.

As the rules mention, free play vouchers were given for the doubled portion of any qualifying win. Much of my time was spent waiting for said vouchers. The entire casino, which is small, I think had only two employees writing them for a lot of players hitting wins the requisite $500 to $1000 range. They worked very hard and I never felt they were slow paying winners or showing favoritism to anybody.

At 5:30 AM, somebody came over the public address system to say that the promotion was cancelled per management decision. The Longhorn's sister property, the Bighorn, also ran the same promotion. I hear they cancelled it earlier, around 3:00 AM.

Today I returned to redeem my free play vouchers. My first order of business was to attempt to spend my points on Longhorn swag. I heard other players who did the promotion were informally 86'd, so I wanted to spend my points while I still could. When I presented my card at the player club desk, the woman working there said, "The manager would like to speak with you."

Immediately said manager came out to see me. He shook my hand and was very friendly. In his office, he acknowledged that in retrospect the promotion was too generous and it was a costly lesson for them to learn. He that he fully intended to honor all vouchers redeemed within a week of the promotion. The vouchers didn't state an expiration date, but he said there was one in the official rules, which I still have never seen, and they had the right to alter them. Fortunately, I redeemed them in time, per the advice of Axel.

When it was all said and done, my net profit was $7,454. I have been asked to not write about what game I played and how. Axel has requested that there not be any posts regarding the strategy for promotions such as this.

As far as I know, the promotion is still good, but only for slots. I don't perceive any value playing that game for this promotion, but maybe I'm wrong.

In closing, I'd like to thank Axel for the information. Hopefully he will share more information about his experience with it.

I don't have much to add for now. I would like to thank the person who tipped me off early and gave me time to prepare, he is a member of the forum and part time AP who lives out of own and couldn't make it to the play himself. He didn't expect or want anything for the information, nonetheless, I will be sending him over a couple of thousand for the information, as I normally do take care of people for good information about play, and that goes for anyone. Not too bad considering he had no risk. I think he knew I would not dick around. They don't always work out and there are costs involved with setting plays even before you get down. It also takes time away from other stuff you are playing.

Truth be told, I'm surprised that you guys would post anything about this.

I am no longer welcome at Longhorn and was escorted out the day after the promo by security. Must be doing something right when give you the old heave-ho!

Thanks for the money Longhorn!

Quote: PokerGrinder

I am no longer welcome at Longhorn and was escorted out the day after the promo by security. Must be doing something right when give you the old heave-ho!

Thanks for the money Longhorn!

1.) Open a casino.
2.) Come up with a stupidly player advantageous promotion.
3.) Lose a crap ton of money.
4.) Throw out the majority of the players who we lost money to.
5.) ???????
6.) Profit.

It seems like you could get to profit faster by just skipping steps #2-#4.

I think the Longhorn deserves praise. Sounds like they realized they made an error but still chose to honor the results. It is quite easy to imagine it going another way.

Quote: SOOPOO

I think the Longhorn deserves praise. Sounds like they realized they made an error but still chose to honor the results. It is quite easy to imagine it going another way.

That's true. I still don't know what the purpose of 86'ing anyone who took advantage of a one-off thing is. You'd think they'd just not have that kind of promotion again.

Quote: Mission146

That's true. I still don't know what the purpose of 86'ing anyone who took advantage of a one-off thing is. You'd think they'd just not have that kind of promotion again.

They must realize that they are not smart enough to not make a similar mistake in the future. And probably rightly determined that anyone clever enough to take advantage would also be clever enough to not just frequent the Longhorn to play the -EV games that the Longhorn makes its profit off of. It is clearly a good business decision to 86 those that availed themselves of the promo.

Quote: PokerGrinder

I am no longer welcome at Longhorn and was escorted out the day after the promo by security. Must be doing something right when give you the old heave-ho!

Thanks for the money Longhorn!

i honestly cant believe you guys let casinos treat you like that - what the hell

Quote: SOOPOO

They must realize that they are not smart enough to not make a similar mistake in the future. And probably rightly determined that anyone clever enough to take advantage would also be clever enough to not just frequent the Longhorn to play the -EV games that the Longhorn makes its profit off of. It is clearly a good business decision to 86 those that availed themselves of the promo.

If they 86 people on a promotion that most people could find an advantage on, that's probably a mistake. You want to 86 the people who have figured out the susceptible promotions that most people wouldn't have figured out.

Quote: rxwine

If they 86 people on a promotion that most people could find an advantage on, that's probably a mistake. You want to 86 the people who have figured out the susceptible promotions that most people wouldn't have figured out.

That’s kind of the case here, I think.

The obvious play for a slight advantage is video poker as long as the paytables aren’t complete garbage, but they wouldn’t have been doing the obvious play. Per the OP, I’m not going to speculate as to what they might have been doing, so no point asking...but it would have been better than VP.

I’d also say the casino itself would probably have known VP becomes beatable and fully expected people to play that. VP wouldn’t kill them though, given the rules of the promotion.

"Here's your damn bonus stimulus bonus, now get out and don't come back!"

Quote: SOOPOO

They must realize that they are not smart enough to not make a similar mistake in the future. And probably rightly determined that anyone clever enough to take advantage would also be clever enough to not just frequent the Longhorn to play the -EV games that the Longhorn makes its profit off of. It is clearly a good business decision to 86 those that availed themselves of the promo.

I’d agree with that, but if you ran another easy to beat promotion, then the people who were 86’ed will just tell other AP’s how to go in there and beat it.

In the meantime, if you hadn’t kicked them out and see them in there again like it’s APCON-Las Vegas chapter...you don’t have to get tagged for six figures; you can just immediately know you screwed up and pull the plug on the promo.

Never too late to learn I suppose.

I have been to Vegas countless times and have never even heard of the Longhorn. I had to Google it to make sure it is even IN Vegas.

Some local girls once took me to, what was it called, some dump owned by Terrible Herbst I think it was, in Vegas for karaoke, so it's not like I haven't seen the less elegant side, but - never the Longhorn.

I will neither confirm or deny I was 86ed. Actually, I'm going to deny it, nobody said anything other than I wasn't welcome back.

This isn't the first time, and it won't be the last time casinos toss out Advantage Players for beating their promotions. As far as I'm concerned, they're dumb to do so since it just gives him a bad reputation and there will always be more Advantage Players to replace the ones they tossed out, they can never possibly get them all. In my opinion, they should use the opportunity to promote how much money they gave out and ask Advantage Players to give them good reviews and suggest everyone using their facilities. If they could just get half the advantage players that played to hop on Twitter, Instagram, discord etc. and post up pictures of all the bonuses they received how well they did that would be the best course of action. I'm fairly certain most Advantage Players would go out of their way to do those things since it would be beneficial for them to do so, instead of getting 86ed and in hopes the casinos will continue to run good promotions.

Quote: MDawg

Never too late to learn I suppose.

I have been to Vegas countless times and have never even heard of the Longhorn. I had to Google it to make sure it is even IN Vegas.

Some local girls once took me to, what was it called, some dump owned by Terrible Herbst I think it was in Vegas for karaoke, so it's not like I haven't seen the less elegant side, but - never the Longhorn.

It's a dump and a half, but most Advantage Players don't care all that much about how nice the casino is when they are making easy money.

Quote: rxwine

If they 86 people on a promotion that most people could find an advantage on, that's probably a mistake. You want to 86 the people who have figured out the susceptible promotions that most people wouldn't have figured out.

i still see the promo available on their website as of this moment so based on what im seeing said in this thread - and your speculation - you seem to be spot on

my question to you guys is did you stay on one machine the whole time?

if other properties lost alot of money im sure that what were hearing is some of the juciest stuff anyone on the internet can read as of today tbh

Quote: MDawg

Never too late to learn I suppose.

I have been to Vegas countless times and have never even heard of the Longhorn. I had to Google it to make sure it is even IN Vegas.

Howard Hughes once drove by it without stopping.

Quote: heatmap

i still see the promo available on their website as of this moment so based on what im seeing said in this thread - and your speculation - you seem to be spot on

my question to you guys is did you stay on one machine the whole time?

if other properties lost alot of money im sure that what were hearing is some of the juciest stuff anyone on the internet can read as of today tbh

Yeah, it's definitely still there. And tomorrow is Thursday. How does that work? Can they actively advertise a promo that was canceled? How is that allowable?

Quote: rdw4potus

Yeah, it's definitely still there. And tomorrow is Thursday. How does that work? Can they actively advertise a promo that was canceled? How is that allowable?

You don't have to cancel the promotion, just eliminate the way it was exploited. I'm really surprised this is being discussed at all.

If I were the horns management, I'd be loudly proclaiming that players won a half million dollars off them.

Quote: rxwine

Howard Hughes once drove by it without stopping.

honestly i dont know shit about mdawg so i cant pass judgement imo and i figured i was the only one who thought it was off - but that statement was one of the oddest ones ive read so far from him

I believe the promo is still going but has been changed to only include reel slot machines. Probably little to no advantage available on those machines.

I know this will ruffle feathers but if I was advising them I would also tell them to pay all the advantage players and to 86 them.

I'm a little confused.



Wizard mentioned that he just returned from three days vacation. Elsewhere today SooPoo said something about how AW and Wiz have been AP'ing a casino. Does that mean Wizard has been holed up for three days raping and pillaging at the Longhorn? PG joined you? So, he's still in Vegas?

If the three of you got together to clock this casino...that's actually pretty cool. Nice united move. 🥷🏼

Quote: MDawg

I'm a little confused.



Wizard mentioned that he just returned from three days vacation. Elsewhere today SooPoo said something about how AW and Wiz have been AP'ing a casino. Does that mean Wizard has been holed up for three days raping and pillaging at the Longhorn? PG joined you? So, he's still in Vegas?

If the three of you got together to clock this casino...that's actually pretty cool. Nice united move. 🥷🏼

Yes, if you were following along. I was informed about the promo early and then made a deal with various AP's from the forum, outside the forum including friends and family, and took a percentage of their action (win or lose) then coordinated an effort to make sure everyone had a machine and played the correct games. This isn't the first time, and it won's be the last time. 90% of them you don't here about.

Quote: DRich

I know this will ruffle feathers but if I was advising them I would also tell them to pay all the advantage players and to 86 them.

My feathers are not ruffled due to this statement. I might be inclined to advise the same if I didn't think/ know there was a better way. They can never be rid of all the AP's, there are always new AP's to replace them so it didn't do them any good to 86 people. They even tossed out people who are not AP's.

Quote: SOOPOO

I think the Longhorn deserves praise. Sounds like they realized they made an error but still chose to honor the results. It is quite easy to imagine it going another way.

They tried to not pay, they were forced by gaming.

Quote: PokerGrinder

They tried to not pay, they were forced by gaming.

Exactly, that is the reason one should always gamble in regulated jurisdictions. No way would they have paid if this was an oversees online operation.

Quote: DRich

Exactly, that is the reason one should always gamble in regulated jurisdictions. No way would they have paid if this was an oversees online operation.

Not true.. Casino-On-Net (Now Casino 888, I believe, but I'm not sure exactly what the deal is with all that) paid over a Million dollars on their 007 roulette Promo. And look at them now, one of the biggest/best around who have now entered into the US regulated market. I don't think they banned anyone for that promo either(?,) I know others and I wasn't banned. Unfortunately, I had to stop using them once they stopped catering to the US market.

Quote: DRich

Exactly, that is the reason one should always gamble in regulated jurisdictions. No way would they have paid if this was an oversees online operation.

Sometimes the publicity is worth the loss. For example the mattress millionaire in Texas who hedges his promotions with SuperBowl bets. Win or lose - he covers the cost of his annual promotion. (Not to be confused with Alan Erlick from Theroux's LV documentary, the Canadian mattress king who is now allegedly a broke Uber driver.)

If the word gets out that so and so owner of a casino booted a high roller for winning too much, that's not going to look good. I've seen it happen both ways - there is a well known story about a shoeless homeless "bandit" who took his social security check to over a million playing blackjack at a Steve Wynn casino, and Wynn let him keep playing, booting him finally only because the guy was too rude and constantly swearing loudly at his dealers. The story did not have a happy ending - for the player. But in that case, the story that was circulated was that Wynn let the guy keep playing - did not cut him off for winning, which was true. By the time Weinberg cut him off the guy had lost most everything.

When Venetian first opened the stories that circulated were that everyone was winning at the Baccarat tables - which there were more than a few high rollers who were clocking them for serious money, and the stories that circulated about how people were winning big and no one was cut off kept the place packed.

Some strange contrasts from Longhorn:
They have one of the best paycheck cashing promotions in the valley at $25 (if there is anything better, I haven't seen it). And the worst new player promotion; literally a bag of cookies.

Looking at their website, one monthly promotions link brings up March, another one brings up September. March promotion is for $500 to $1000 in freeplay. September is for $4 to $40 in freeplay. Quite a bit of a difference.

The "Double Jackpot" is still there, but exclusively a "Doubly Royal" (according to their website). I remember those being common in bars around 2010 - 2014 or so, but not seeing them as much anymore. Pretty easy to use wizardofodds to see that it should add close to 2% to the total return (on a $1.25 bet). They have 98.9% machines, plus 0.2% back in points, so there is clearly still a player advantage available.

I never got my certificate or t-shirt for the monster burger. I even had a three-egg omelet with it as well. The omelet was 1,000 points. I like the idea of menu items that can only be purchased with points.

Quote: TomG

Some strange contrasts from Longhorn:
They have one of the best paycheck cashing promotions in the valley at $25 (if there is anything better, I haven't seen it). And the worst new player promotion; literally a bag of cookies.

Looking at their website, one monthly promotions link brings up March, another one brings up September. March promotion is for $500 to $1000 in freeplay. September is for $4 to $40 in freeplay. Quite a bit of a difference.

The "Double Jackpot" is still there, but exclusively a "Doubly Royal" (according to their website). I remember those being common in bars around 2010 - 2014 or so, but not seeing them as much anymore. Pretty easy to use wizardofodds to see that it should add close to 2% to the total return (on a $1.25 bet). They have 98.9% machines, plus 0.2% back in points, so there is clearly still a player advantage available.

I never got my certificate or t-shirt for the monster burger. I even had a three-egg omelet with it as well. The omelet was 1,000 points. I like the idea of menu items that can only be purchased with points.

I can never pass up the $4 chicken fried steak. It is a great greasy spoon restaurant

Quote: Wizard

If you achieve any top prize in slots, a royal flush, or at least $500 or more in keno, we will double the top prize up to $1000 in free play.

I'm no AP, but one of those thing seems to be much easier than the others. I love reading threads like these. Thanks!

Thanks for the news from the Longhorn!

I'm glad that place is still getting some (self-inflincted) love after they removed their famed blackjack tables.

Longhorn was one of about three places I ever got heat for blackjack. Good rules, good penetration, double on three cards, bj in the suit of the day paid an extra $5, daily tournaments that paid over 100% of entry fees. Spread 2 to 100 and eventually said I couldn't play cards there anymore. I can usually hide that type of stuff on single or double deck (leave after a max bet), much harder on six, because the bigger bets can stay out there a lot longer.

Would usually go there after trying a 3 to 100 spread at Alamo single deck. At one time they had a daily free poker tournament.

This reminds me of around fifteen years ago, Suncoast had a promo where they were paying 2-1 on blackjacks. They let you play a maximum of two spots, so it was me, the Wizard, and the Wizard's wife, taking up 6 of the 7 spots at one of the tables, betting the max on each hand. After maybe 15-20 minutes the floorperson came over to tell us they were canceling the promotion. I think we actually lost money, since we got quite a bit fewer than the expected number of naturals, but it was still fun.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

This reminds me of around fifteen years ago, Suncoast had a promo where they were paying 2-1 on blackjacks. They let you play a maximum of two spots, so it was me, the Wizard, and the Wizard's wife, taking up 6 of the 7 spots at one of the tables, betting the max on each hand. After maybe 15-20 minutes the floorperson came over to tell us they were canceling the promotion. I think we actually lost money, since we got quite a bit fewer than the expected number of naturals, but it was still fun.

I played a promo last year that had about a 9% advantage and I got crushed. My wife was with me and I kept explaining to her that we need to keep playing because it is just too good to walk away from. She reminds me of it at least once a month.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

This reminds me of around fifteen years ago, Suncoast had a promo where they were paying 2-1 on blackjacks. They let you play a maximum of two spots, so it was me, the Wizard, and the Wizard's wife, taking up 6 of the 7 spots at one of the tables, betting the max on each hand. After maybe 15-20 minutes the floorperson came over to tell us they were canceling the promotion. I think we actually lost money, since we got quite a bit fewer than the expected number of naturals, but it was still fun.

There were quite a few places that ran the same promo in the 90's and some of them lasted for at least 24 hours.


Treibales had a 3 to 1, it only lasted until the camera for their documentary turned off and then they got nasty. I still have some of their opening day collectors chips.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

This reminds me of around fifteen years ago, Suncoast had a promo ...

That was at the Rampart.

It really is mind blowing to me a casino can bar you just for participating in a promotion following the rules and doing nothing else. To me it would seem like no longer being welcome at McDonald's because I just bought 2 Filet O Fish sandwiches for $5. At the same time is the casino firing everyone involved with producing the promotion? That's probably the thing to do or the casino should buy a calculator and some paper and pens to think twice about what they offer. All the players did was think of a way to have a good likelihood of collecting said promotion at a reasonable cost. Maybe the next promotion should be 2 free buffets in 2 weeks and free room in board in jail after you collect the second buffet because you're trespassing.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

It really is mind blowing to me a casino can bar you just for participating in a promotion following the rules and doing nothing else. To me it would seem like no longer being welcome at McDonald's because I just bought 2 Filet O Fish sandwiches for $5. At the same time is the casino firing everyone involved with producing the promotion? That's probably the thing to do or the casino should buy a calculator and some paper and pens to think twice about what they offer. All the players did was think of a way to have a good likelihood of collecting said promotion at a reasonable cost. Maybe the next promotion should be 2 free buffets in 2 weeks and free room in board in jail after you collect the second buffet because you're trespassing.

In Nevada any business can ban any patron as long as the reason isn't against the law (racial, gender, etc).

I worked at a company once where we banned a patron because he lacked proper hygiene.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

It really is mind blowing to me a casino can bar you just for participating in a promotion following the rules and doing nothing else. To me it would seem like no longer being welcome at McDonald's because I just bought 2 Filet O Fish sandwiches for $5. At the same time is the casino firing everyone involved with producing the promotion? That's probably the thing to do or the casino should buy a calculator and some paper and pens to think twice about what they offer. All the players did was think of a way to have a good likelihood of collecting said promotion at a reasonable cost. Maybe the next promotion should be 2 free buffets in 2 weeks and free room in board in jail after you collect the second buffet because you're trespassing.

Casinos sometimes offer a great BJ game to entice and expose advantage player. Perhaps the genius who offered up this promotion did it to expose the APs.
Yeah, that's the ticket.

Quote: DRich

In Nevada any business can ban any patron as long as the reason isn't against the law (racial, gender, etc).

I worked at a company once where we banned a patron because he lacked proper hygiene.

I understand, however generally the public doesn't believe in it and wants a reason and for the reason to be valid and reasonable. I see how someone should not be forced to go somewhere they don't want to be and for people to choose where they go and to not explain their reasons, but the opposite, a little confusing. Say maybe I don't want to go to Ruby Tuesday's because I find the staff young, arrogant, and smug but wouldn't want them telling someone as a customer to never be allowed because they're young, arrogant and smug. We know casinos may say there is no reason, but there is a reason, and they may not bar everyone for the same reason who qualifies, and that is unfair. As we may also know, when casinos are not allowed to bar someone, they bar them for another reason, but it's really not the reason. These things are common in Vegas, but not elsewhere. Elsewhere in the country, it is as if, they call someone too smart, they're calling everyone else stupid, or so it seems.

What’s funny is you all think the griffin black book is probably dead.

It just went digital

Quote: heatmap

What’s funny is you all think the griffin black book is probably dead.

It just went digital

I thought it was computerized a long time ago.

Quote: DRich

I thought it was computerized a long time ago.

you know what - im looking at their wikipedia and i think i assumed they went out of business because of the chapter 11 bankruptcy

i guess they arent dead heh