smoothgrh
smoothgrh
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December 1st, 2019 at 11:10:50 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Thank you, Gordon. And yes, I'm sure it's split pairs only once, no matter what pair. I would say you have it all, EXCEPT, that's 2 FOR 1 for BJ, not 2 to 1. So try it again and let's see what you get. I'm thinking maybe 97.60, thereabouts, without checking a calculator. I have no idea where 98.3 comes from.



I just re-read this thread about video blackjack and noticed that the game in the photo uses two decks!

So at some point, IGT reconfigured its blackjack games. The percentages I posted were for their really old (pre-2000) single deck games. I don't know which game I was playing at Harrah's, but I'm assuming it's double deck.

Apologies for passing along erroneous information!
bobbartop
bobbartop
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smoothgrh
December 2nd, 2019 at 12:44:04 AM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh

I just re-read this thread about video blackjack and noticed that the game in the photo uses two decks!

So at some point, IGT reconfigured its blackjack games. The percentages I posted were for their really old (pre-2000) single deck games. I don't know which game I was playing at Harrah's, but I'm assuming it's double deck.

Apologies for passing along erroneous information!




I've never seen an old game like that that uses two decks. Interesting. However, lately, there are brand new games where you have a choice, single deck or double deck. Rules the same on both options, and I assume a fresh shuffle each hand. I'll grab a photo next time I'm in front of one.

Of course, double deck is worse so I still don't see 98.30.

Thanks, this has been interesting, informative.
smoothgrh
smoothgrh
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December 2nd, 2019 at 1:26:31 AM permalink
A few final TR notes:

—At Montbleu, we asked the PGP dealer what was going on with all the unusually dressed young people walking around. She said it was Burning Man. I knew it couldn't possibly be. We went back the next day, and near the garage I saw many people packed to go with all kinds of unusual stuff. I asked what was going on, and one woman said it was an artists consortium. I think that's the group the woman going to the "sex party" was with. Though I think she was trolling us.
—Also on Monday morning, we stopped by Hard Rock Casino. They had $5 craps, so I played with two other people for about 15 minutes and won $10. They also had $3 blackjack, which I have not seen since my last visit to Cal Neva in Reno (maybe 5 years ago?), but the table was packed. Hard Rock Casino had plenty of free parking—Harrah's and (I hear) Harveys now charges for self-parking!
—The “Texas Hold’Em Heads Up Poker" bonus bet works like a video poker side bet—you bet 25 cents to $1.25. Except the pay table changes based on when you make a winning hand—the flop, turn, or river. So if you flop a royal flush, it's huge compared to making it on the river with 7 cards. In that way, it pays kind of like 3 Way-Action Poker. In the photo below, the Mrs. played a 75-cent Bonus bet, and even though she folded in the main game, she won $29.25 thanks to quad 9s that she would have made on the turn. (She had $25 free play, and she wound up winning about $60!)

Last edited by: smoothgrh on Dec 2, 2019
RS
RS
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December 2nd, 2019 at 2:09:21 AM permalink
IME you can hit split aces.
01000101 01110000 01110011 01110100 01100101 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100100 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01101011 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101000 01101001 01101101 01110011 01100101 01101100 01100110 00101110
gordonm888
gordonm888
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bobbartop
December 2nd, 2019 at 10:32:40 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Thank you, Gordon. And yes, I'm sure it's split pairs only once, no matter what pair. I would say you have it all, EXCEPT, that's 2 FOR 1 for BJ, not 2 to 1. So try it again and let's see what you get. I'm thinking maybe 97.60, thereabouts, without checking a calculator. I have no idea where 98.3 comes from.



Okay, with that correction I get 97.646% (not 98.3%)

When I remove Late Surrender, I calculate 97.626% (not 95.7%)
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
DRich
DRich
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bobbartoptringlomane
December 2nd, 2019 at 11:34:12 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Okay, with that correction I get 97.646% (not 98.3%)

When I remove Late Surrender, I calculate 97.626% (not 95.7%)



IGT has had their Blackjack PAR sheets and paytables labelled wrong for as long as I can remember.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
EVBandit
EVBandit
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HugoSlaviagordonm888djtehch34tbobbartop
December 2nd, 2019 at 12:52:58 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

IGT has had their Blackjack PAR sheets and paytables labelled wrong for as long as I can remember.



1. I have a general comment about PAR sheets since my first gaming company shared this info with me (btw, IGT did not share anything with me with respects to PAR sheets). In my video poker game, the first game manufacturer lists two numbers: return under optimal play and return under “field conditions”, e.g. what they expect to get due to short coin, mistakes, etc and the field number was about 2% less than optimal play. So you need to take those numbers with a grain of salt.

2. The best advertised return on single deck IGT Video BJ was 99.7% based its marketing literature and I know several people from that independently verified this number; one programmer cycled through every possible hand to confirm the 99.7% number, e.g. through brute force via perfect play.

Some versions had an unannounced rule of split ace catch face pays 3:2 but pushes on dealer BJ. That version was still below 100%.

And here is a bit of trivia for you: Don’t believe Mickey Crimm when he talks about this full pay version.

“The payback screens on the Game Kings showed 99.5% for the full pay video blackjack. But two glitches IGT wasn't aware of, split aces catching paint was automatic 3-2 BJ, and double after the split. That brought it up to 100%.“ source: M. Crimm tweet dated May 17, 2018

The DAS rule is clearly spelled out on the screen but don’t tell Mickey (exact phrase on the screen is DD after split allowed only on first two cards). Separately Mickey was not aware of the player BJ pushes against dealer BJ on split aces catches face rule. Mickey went on the record on some Reno message board stating he had first hand knowledge the game returned over 100%. Shortly after those posts, many of the full video BJ disappeared from Reno and boy were the AP’s on upset on Mickey’s posts. If I had free time, I would love to dig up those incredulous claims that Mickey made on that message board.

So after about 10 years, Mickey Crimm still has not changed his story:
“The IGT full pay video blackjack, 100.03% was good for running comp, cashback, freeplay, even drawing tickets.”
Source: M Crimm tweet dated May 16, 2018.

It won’t be me to tell M Crimm he double counted the DAS rule.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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December 2nd, 2019 at 5:53:37 PM permalink
Quote: EVBandit


It won’t be me to tell M Crimm he double counted the DAS rule.



Especially if he dies.
EVBandit
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bobbartop
December 2nd, 2019 at 6:34:25 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Without looking it up, and still with sleep in my eyes, I'm thinking about .0015.



I had to check Peter Griffin’s The Theory of BJ (5th edition) and on page 123, for Single Deck the 6-card auto winner is worth about 10 bp or 0.10%.
Vegasrider
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smoothgrh
December 2nd, 2019 at 7:02:48 PM permalink
Sex Party, it’s a Northern Nevada thing. Nothing new or out of the ordinary. Try Reno next time. If you like playing the machines, I recommend the Western Village. Also has the best steak house in town.

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