HugoSlavia
HugoSlavia
Joined: Aug 16, 2017
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November 30th, 2019 at 8:10:22 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Between Charlie strategy and card composition, I really have to stay awake. Do I stand 16 against a ten? Are there 5s out or 6s out? 16 against a 9? How are the 7s?


For rarity, I was only referring to 5-card 17s against a strong dealer up card. Some of the other scenarios such as any 16 vs T occur much more routinely for sure. I don't play a lot of vbj, so I haven't tried to master all the strategy fine points because it would slow me down too much.
bobbartop
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
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Thanks for this post from:
HugoSlavia
November 30th, 2019 at 8:30:41 PM permalink
Quote: HugoSlavia

For rarity, I was only referring to 5-card 17s against a strong dealer up card. Some of the other scenarios such as any 16 vs T occur much more routinely for sure. I don't play a lot of vbj, so I haven't tried to master all the strategy fine points because it would slow me down too much.



Yes, Hugo. 5-card 17s against 9, T, Ace, comes up all the time. It might surprise you.

And I don't even hesitate, I don't slow down at all. Automatic hit.
HugoSlavia
HugoSlavia
Joined: Aug 16, 2017
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November 30th, 2019 at 9:26:29 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Yes, Hugo. 5-card 17s against 9, T, Ace, comes up all the time. It might surprise you.


OK, thanks for the correction. For whatever reason, those situations didn't stick in my memory, and I have no clue how to calculate the frequency of occurrence.
smoothgrh
smoothgrh
Joined: Oct 26, 2011
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December 1st, 2019 at 11:02:40 AM permalink
The percentages are correct. I believe the rules are correct—if you include the automatic win on 6 cards.

smurgerburger
smurgerburger
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December 1st, 2019 at 12:28:03 PM permalink
Quote: HugoSlavia

House edge calculator:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/

Just an idle wish, but I would like to see additional radio buttons supporting some of the really bad rule options encountered on video BJ machines. The author probably assumed such games to be unplayable, but a 2.5% house edge can sometimes be viable if the machine earns points at the reel slot rate.



I've had the same thought, the calculator should allow all options that can be found in VBJ.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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December 1st, 2019 at 3:08:31 PM permalink
Thank you for posting this image. It's very interesting. I still think there's something wrong with this picture. Well, not the picture, lol, I mean in a figure of speech. Even-money on blackjack's almost 2-1/2% by itself. Surrender, S17, 6-Card Charlie, and probably DAS too, is not going to put it over 98%. It's going to be in the 97% range. I dunno. I'm missing something.

And I am stumped as to how it can ever be as bad as in the 95% range, let alone 93.20. I don't get it.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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December 1st, 2019 at 4:04:36 PM permalink
Now I know where I've seen those same numbers before. If you look at vpfree (not vpfree2), there are some files you can download. I just downloaded a spreadsheet that I haven't looked at in a long time. Sure enough, 99.5, 98.3, 95.7, and 93.2. And the name of the file is "Game King".

Most likely I am missing something. I usually am. But don't forget, In The Beginning, (sometime after God made the Earth), Bally's actually gave Pick'em to the casinos with the WRONG math. That's why there used to be Pick'em all over the place. One day they saw the light. Now no more Pick'em. I'm just sayin.
smoothgrh
smoothgrh
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December 1st, 2019 at 7:20:21 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Thank you for posting this image. It's very interesting. I still think there's something wrong with this picture. Well, not the picture, lol, I mean in a figure of speech. Even-money on blackjack's almost 2-1/2% by itself. Surrender, S17, 6-Card Charlie, and probably DAS too, is not going to put it over 98%. It's going to be in the 97% range. I dunno. I'm missing something.

And I am stumped as to how it can ever be as bad as in the 95% range, let alone 93.20. I don't get it.



It DOES seem odd that there's such a big gap between BJ game #2 and #3, instead of between #1 and #2. One would think—as you pointed out—that 5 for 2 vs. 2 for 1 is the major difference.

And the 93.2% blackjack is even-money for BJ, no splitting, and no double downs. Even if all those bad rules doesn't get the percentage down that far, the game doesn't even feel like blackjack anymore!

These percentages come from Game Kings going back 20+ years, so you might be right that the posted percentages are off.
gordonm888
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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December 1st, 2019 at 10:17:41 PM permalink
I cannot reproduce the posted percentages for any of the four sets of rules that are posted - I get much higher values. Clearly, there must be a rule that is not being quoted.

For instance, on #2 I modeled:

Single deck
BJ Pays 2:1
Dealer stands on 17 (including soft)
Double only on 10,11
Split up to 3x (except aces cannot be resplit and only one card drawn to a split ace)
DAS (except Aces)
Late surrender vs. Dealer 2-10 but not vs Dealer A.
6-card Charlie

I calculate that player has a positive expectation for this game.

If the rule is Split Pairs (once only) the expectation is still quite positive.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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December 1st, 2019 at 10:32:46 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I cannot reproduce the posted percentages for any of the four sets of rules that are posted - I get much higher values. Clearly, there must be a rule that is not being quoted.

For instance, on #2 I modeled:

Single deck
BJ Pays 2:1
Dealer stands on 17 (including soft)
Double only on 10,11
Split up to 3x (except aces cannot be resplit and only one card drawn to a split ace)
DAS (except Aces)
Late surrender vs. Dealer 2-10 but not vs Dealer A.
6-card Charlie

I calculate that player has a positive expectation for this game.

If the rule is Split Pairs (once only) the expectation is still quite positive.




Thank you, Gordon. And yes, I'm sure it's split pairs only once, no matter what pair. I would say you have it all, EXCEPT, that's 2 FOR 1 for BJ, not 2 to 1. So try it again and let's see what you get. I'm thinking maybe 97.60, thereabouts, without checking a calculator. I have no idea where 98.3 comes from.

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