June 10-13 Downtown Trip Report

I just returned from a trip to downtown Vegas from Thursday evening to Sunday evening. The follow is my trip report. I will make separate posts for each day. Let me first preface with the circumstances behind the trip. This was my forth trip to Vegas, and third with my wife (Mrs. S-M). This time we went out with another couple, a first for us (we'll call them Mr. and Mrs. T). Our other "first" is that we stayed downtown. We've basically stayed at Harrah's properties before, but went downtown to play on our last trip and loved it. The four of us decided that Downtown was the place to be on this trip, and actually made a decision not to go to the Strip at all. I must say that this was my best Vegas experience to date. Mrs. SM and I basically came home with the same cash we went out with after four days of gambling, eating, and paying cash for transportation, etc.

Thursday
We arrived in Vegas around 7:00 p.m. local time (flew out of KC). Took the Bell Trans shuttle downtown for $9. It was a 45 minute ride for us because we were the last stop. We stayed at the Golden Nugget. Mr. T booked two rooms for us on Priceline for $59, which I thought was a great deal. They were basic Carson Tower rooms. Mrs. T arrived that morning at around 8:00 without Mr. T (he had work obligations and couldn't escape town on Thursday). Mrs. T laid by the pool and had a pedicure at the GN spa while she waited for us. At check-in, I pulled the $20 sandwich trick, and asked if any upgrades were available. The desk clerk gave me a sly smile and said, they had booked our rooms next to each other and "didn't I want to be next to me family." I told her it wasn't necessary, and she booked Mrs. SM and I in the new Rush Tower. Needless to say, I was very pleased. The Rush Tower room was more modern, and nice pillow top mattress, comfortable pillows, bowl sinks, a pretty good view of the strip. It was a beautiful room, and could not have been happier. We also received the Golden Values coupon book, which was full of pretty good values.

The girls and I then had dinner at Lillie's Noodle House Pan-Asian at the GN. This was a lovely, dark, and again modern restaurant. We each ordered different dishes, which were served family style. We also ordered the crab rangoon appetizer, and really enjoyed it. The total bill for the three of us was around $60, I believe.

Next we left the GN, and went to Boyd's Fremont. We signed up for B-Connected cards and played VP at the bar for about 30 minutes and had a few drinks. At this point I should state that we all drink, particularly when drinks are comped. I am generally a low stakes player. I like $5 table games (craps, BJ), and will play penny machines or VP, preferably for a nickel. My wife loves penny machines, and has become a Blackjack fan recently. After this trip, I think I converted her to craps (See Saturday's report...) We left the Fremont fairly quickly and went to Fitzgerald's.

Here, the girls saw a $3 BJ table. I explained to them that the table was 6/5 and that I would not play there. Of course, I fell to the peer pressure and sat down with them. This table was in the Fitz' party pit, and the female dealers were scantly dressed in what appeared to be a Hawaiian motif. It quickly became apparent these girls were break-in dealers, and the increased house edge from the 6/5 rule was basically eliminated. At one point, a dealer paid Mrs. T's blackjack twice! First time I've ever seen that for sure. The drink service at the Fitz was swift, though the drinks weren't particularly strong. We ended up playing for around four hours, and drinking pretty heavily the whole time. I was actually playing $10/hand most of the time after getting up early on. When we were finished, I asked the supervisor if I could receive a food voucher, and was told I had to have a players card. I was a bit disappointed, but wasn't surprised. We didn't get cards at Fitz that night because we didn't plan to be there as long as we were. We grabbed a quick snack at McD's to soak up some of the cheap booze, and headed back to the GN for bed. It was a fun night, but we knew it would be a long weekend...

Friday
Mrs. SM and I woke up pretty early, though we didn't plan to. We were both very impressed with the comfortable bed in the Rush Tower room. That $20 appeared to be a great investment. We were basically even on the gambling from the night before. Our first stop that morning was to obtain a 24 karat Card from the GN. Mrs. SM and I then played penny machines for a while until Mrs. T met up with us. We decided to try the breakfast buffet. I used a 2 for 1 coupon from the Golden Values book, and charged the 3 meals (minus coupon) to our room for a total of about $25 after tax. The buffet was pretty nice, but I was not in the mood to stuff myself because of the cheap booze from the Fitz the night before. The girls seemed to enjoy the breakfast though. Next we left GN and headed over to Binion's. I noticed all the BJ was 6/5 and didn't plan to stay there long. However, we ended up getting the free picture with the $1M cash and signed up for a player's card. We sat down at the pennies and played. I quickly hit one for $200. I played long enough to earn 40 points and received a T-shirt for doing so (a pretty good promotion for new players, I thought). We also received a crappy deck of free playing cards. We stayed at Binion's for about two hours.

Next we went outside and went in to Mermaids at the suggestion of Mrs. T. She recalled a trip where she and Mr. T had very little cash and played for a long time and drank for cheap at Mermaids, so in we went. Mermaids is all coin-out machines. The cocktail service, I believe is comparable to a strip club in that the waitresses hounded us every couple minutes for drinks. Mrs. SM won a little on a Monopoly machine, and drained it of nickels. We stayed a Mermaids about an hour and managed to drink a lot more than we needed to in that amount of time. We then got a call from Mr. T, who had just landed at McCarron. We went back to Binion's so the girls could work on that 40 point promotion (they played the pennies pretty slow at max lines with maybe 2 per line). I played pai gow at $10/hand. We were there about an hour before Mr. T arrived at the GN (around 7:00). I had made reservations for the Chart House at the Rush Tower for 8:30, but we decided to re-schedule for Saturday night. Mr. T had the itch, and wanted to gamble immediately. We sat down at a $10 BJ table. We played for about 1 1/2 hours. This was the not a profitable venure for me. I was down after that table.

Next we went out again and went back to the Fitz because the girls didn't dig the $10/hand game. We played at a $5 6/5 game at the Fitz for about an hour. Next we hit their crap table. Mr. T plays the don't pass, which Mrs. SM had never seen before (I always play the pass). Mr. T was the only person at the table winning. Mrs. SM jumped on the don't pass with Mr. T and they were both winning. I wasn't playing and got bored, so I went and played VP for a bit. When I returned to the table they were about even. It was starting to get late, so I suggested we leave. Mr. T really didn't want to quit, so we went to the California. We found a $5, 3/2 single deck pitch BJ game. Mr. T was very impressed because all the $5 or lower tables Downtown to this point were 6/5 were we had been. Mr. T and I played for about 45 minutes here. I actually lost a little. I was tired, and so were the girls. We went back to the GN, and Mr. T stayed out because he didn't get to go out the night before. Overall, I lost around $200 that night I believe. Mrs. SM had lost about $150. This night, we were able to sleep a little longer...

Saturday

We slept in until about 10 Saturday. It was glorious. Mrs. SM and I got up and went down to play machines. She hit a couple machines for about $100 a piece. I believe I lost a little. At around 11:30, Mrs. T joined us for lunch. We ate at the Grotto at the GN. They had a sandwich special which Mrs. T and I both ordered, and my wife ordered the lasagna. the total bill was around $30 (for Mrs. SM and I), which I charged to the room. We ate right next to the Tank pool, and noticed that people made a mass exodus because the winds were pretty strong and it had begun to rain. The girls and I called Mr. T, who apparently stayed out way passed his bedtime, and drank more than he planned to. The three of us played machines while we waited for Mr. T to rise from the dead. I should note that Mrs. SM and I decided to do most of our machine play at the GN because we really enjoyed the place, and thought it would pay-off to do so. Mr. T showed up around 1:30, and we all hit Fremont to find our next destination. Mr. T and I wanted to hit the El Cortez, because the girls refused do so at nighttime do to what I believed was unreasonable fear.

We strolled in to the El Co, which was really quiet. We found a $5 single deck game and sat down. We played for about 15 minutes before Mrs. T reminded Mr. T that if he didn't eat, he would likely die. Not two minutes later, someone came to the table and offered us food. Mr. T ordered a hot dog. It came out in about 10 minutes, and actually looked really good for a $2.25 hot dog. Best of all, Mr. T received that disparately needed nourishment without ever standing up. The BJ was good for everyone but me, so I decided to try craps. This is really when my weekend started to get fun. The game was $3/10x odds, a value player's dream. I played pretty low stakes for a while, $3 pass bet, pretty low odds bets, and the occasional place bet. I had really not been doing well with the gambling, so I was a bit spooked. Eventually, the others joined me at the table. Mrs. SM and Mr. T started in on their don't pass bets. They were beginning to see the dont' pass thing as some kind of inside joke. I thought they were evil, dark-sided, mojo killers. The dice came around to me, and I hit a couple of points before I sevened-out. Then the dice passed to Mrs. SM. I told her that she should at least try playing the pass when she was shooting. This was her first ever roll...

She quickly became the life of the party. The Long Island Iced Teas she was drinking didn't hurt, but she really came into her element and started hitting numbers and winning money. She was tipping the dealers, and they were having fun too. I would say that the craps dealers at the El Co were probably the friendliest dealers were encountered at any table game during our trip. Mrs. SM was starting to really figure out and enjoy craps, and started coming up with bets that she liked to play. I was pleased that she enjoyed the game. We played for about an hour, and figured we should stop. Darth Vader (my new nickname for Mr. T because he played the darkside) ended up losing, while Mrs. SM and I came out ahead. We played a few machines before deciding that a nap would be a really good idea. We headed back to the GN around 6 p.m. to re-charge the batteries.

We all met downstairs at 8:30 for our reservation at the Chart House. The ambiance at the CH was nice, with a beautiful fish tank right in the center. He had all dressed fairly well for this dinner, and later on decided we were over-dressed for Downtown. Our meal at the Chart House was excellent. I had baked-stuffed shrimp, and Mrs. SM had a fillet. Mr. T had a seafood tower, and Mrs. T had some other shrimp dish. Mr. T also ordered a side of fried macaroni and cheese. He shared that with the rest of us, and it was probably the best single dish I ate on the trip. Simple comfort food taken to a new level with a smoked cheese that was truly delicious. Mrs. SM and I decided this was probably the best meal we'd ever had in Vegas. We ordered no drinks at dinner, knowing we'd have comp'd drinks later. The total bill was around $140 plus tip. We did not charge this meal to the room.

Next we headed for Four Queens and played VP at the bar and drank for about 30 minutes. Nothing special. Then we headed down to the Plaza. At this point, Mr. T, much like a scene out of the Hangover began to retrace his steps from the night before, and realized that he had played at the Vegas Club, and finished his night by eating pancakes at the Golden Gate. It was pretty funny to watch him put the pieces together. At he Plaza, we sat down at a Let It Ride table when we discovered all their BJ was full. This table had a 3-card side bet for $5. On the very first hand, I drew 3-4-5 of spades, but did not play the side bet. I showed my cards to the dealer, who appeared to be angry that I didn't play the side bet. In fact, she was kind of rude about it. I ended up drawing two pair on that particular hand. Mrs. SM played pennies while the rest of us played Let It Ride. I eventually quit because I was losing after about an hour. Mr. and Mrs. T were actually winning. By the time we left, they had done quite well, and had made up a little for Mr. T's wild night. Next we decided we needed to find some $5 blackjack, and headed back to the 4 Queens. I gravitated straight to the crap table, and played there. The others made a trip around the pit and ended up joining me. Mrs. SM lost about $100 rather quickly. I won about that much. Next we decided Mr. T and I would play pai gow at Binion's. We went across the street, and I realized I forgot to cash out my 4 queens cheques. Mr. T told me to give them to the pai gow dealer, and I was surprised that they accepted them. The supervisor reminded me that 4 Queens now operates Binion's. Mr. T told the dealer that he wanted to bank when he could at pai gow. I must admit this really confused me at first, as I really haven't played much pai gow. When he started to take my money, I was starting to get frustrated with the game. The girls were bored too. We decided to go back to the GN for one last drink before bed. We played bar-top BP for a bit, and I got bored and played a few $1 machines nearby. We ended up turning in around 3 a.m.

Sunday (The Conclusion)

Sunday morning I called down and asked for a late check-out, and was denied. Mrs. SM and I showered up and took our bags down to be checked, because our plane to KC didn't leave until 7:30. I told her that I was going to try to see if I could get any of the room charges comped. We had played slots a pretty fair amount at the GN. I had around 300 points on my card, which would have been about $1500 through. Mrs. SM had played more than that, but had actually lost her card at that point (long island iced tea)... I went to a host and asked if I could have any of my charges comped. She told me that we had $55 in food charged to the room (we had booked through Priceline, so we weren't entitled to have any of the room cost comped). She said she would be happy to comp our food charges. I was very pleased. I have never had any food comped, but I had also never charged any to a room, nor had I asked. Lesson learned: it can't hurt to ask! At that point, Mrs. SM and I had pretty well decided we would return to the Golden Nugget on our next trip. It was a beautiful hotel, we had snagged a great upgrade, and $55 in food comps. At this point we had figured out that we were about $700 down on the gambling between the two of us for the weekend, but after the food comps, we felt that if the trip ended there, we had really had a good trip so far.

We checked-out, and met Mr. and Mrs. T for brunch at the Carson Street Cafe. We all filled out a few keno cards and had a mediocre breakfast. This was the only real disappointment for me at the GN. Next we hit the pool for about an hour. If you're not familiar with the GN pool, it's pretty cool. There is a shark tank in the middle that you can swim around, and even go through down a tube slide (which I did not do).

After the pool, we decided to head to the Golden Gate for cheap, reasonable table games. This was the highlight of the trip. The others wanted to play BJ, but BJ had not been good for me on the weekend, so I decided on craps. There were two $5/10x tables running. One had about 5 players, and the other was empty. I kind of like to control the dice, so I went to the empty table and bought in for $100. I played for about 15 minutes by myself. I was basically playing the pass line with $10 odds on all numbers, and placing the 6/8 for $6 a piece. I doubled my money in that 15 minutes (plus some tips for the dealers). I decided to quit and check on the others at the BJ table. I bought in there and literally lost 6 hands in a row. I said, "screw this," and went back to the empty crap table. This is when things really got crazy. I started rolling, and just couldn't lose. I started hitting hard ways, and actually rolled 3 hard sixes in a row. I usually don't play the hardways, but I was up a little, so I thought, "what the hell." Put $5 on the hard six and hit it on the next shot. That was the kind of roll it was. I was still the only one at the table, but Mrs. SM came over after about 15 minutes. She started in playing the don't pass the first time I came out after her arrival. Of course, I rolled a 7. At that point I was up about $200, and suggested that she just play the pass with me. I hit about two points before the dice moved to her. She asked me if she should shoot, or if I wanted her to pass the dice back to me. I said I would take them. From that point, I rolled for around 40 minutes. I was starting to attract some attention. It was quite thrilling. I was still winning, and I was really spread out on the board. One guy showed up and played the don't pass, and I took great joy in watching another Dark Sider lose. Mr. T showed up and made some snarky comment about jumping on on the don't's, and I shot him a look that scared him off of that notion. This roll was the most thrilling moment in my entire gambling life. about halfway through, I told Mrs. SM that when I did lose, we were getting the hell out of there. As I said, I rolled for about 40 minutes. I colored up immediately after I sevened out. I was given $629 in chips. I dropped $25 for the dealers (I had actually played for them quite a bit during the roll too). Mrs. SM had bought in at the Golden Gate for $20 at BJ. When we left that crap game, she had $350. I was on cloud nine.

At this point, Mr. and Mrs. T had to head to the airport because their flight was earlier than ours. We saw them off, and figured we had about 2 hours before we had to leave ourselves. We decided to play pennies at the GN to kill time. I lost $50 pretty quickly, but Mrs. SM ended up winning $400 on a LIFE machine. At that point, we counted our cash and determined that we were officially ahead for the trip. We went to The Grille at the GN and ordered some food. Around 5:00 we got a cab and headed to the airport. I was very, very happy with the end of the trip. So was Mrs. SM. We found out our flight was delayed by 30 minutes.

When we eventually got up in the air, we were told we'd be taking an alternative flan pattern due to storms over Kansas. About half way into the flight, we were told that we would not be able to land in KC at 12:30 due to storms, and that we would circle over Manhattan, Kansas, to see if the storms would pass. After about 30 minutes of circling, the captain said that we were low on fuel, and would have to land in Salina, Kansas, to refuel. Once grounded, we were told that we would basically have to wait there until the storms in KC passed through. We were grounded for over an hour. We ended up landing in KC around 3 a.m. Mrs. SM was really unhappy about the flight situation, but I just chalked it up as one of the realities of air travel. It didn't ruin the trip for me, although I wasn't very chipper today after a long night.

As I said, this was my best Vegas trip to date. After our winnings, we basically paid for every dollar we spent including paying Mr. T for the room, all the food, tips, ground transportation, and a couple of souvenirs for our kid back home. The only thing that we didn't cover with winnings was our flight. After all expenses, we return home with $35 less cash than when we left. I considered this to be a wildly successful trip.

Thanks for the report, quite detailed for four full days. I had a series of rolls like that a couple of trips ago at Tuscany... made about $700 playing $5 pass/coming always with full 3/4/5 odds in a few hours. I know the kind of feeling you had going on that roll, congratulations.

Questions: How did you feel getting around downtown (in terms of personal safety)? I've only stayed around the strip - what did you enjoy more about DT than the strip?

Quote: ahiromu

Thanks for the report, quite detailed for four full days. I had a series of rolls like that a couple of trips ago at Tuscany... made about $700 playing $5 pass/coming always with full 3/4/5 odds in a few hours. I know the kind of feeling you had going on that roll, congratulations.

Questions: How did you feel getting around downtown (in terms of personal safety)? I've only stayed around the strip - what did you enjoy more about DT than the strip?

ahiromu,

Thanks for complementing my detail, but keep in mind I did drink quite a bit, so I missed out on a lot of detail, and may have skewed some of the details that I did post ;)


As far as safety goes. During the day, it was just fine. As I mentioned, Mr. T and I really wanted to check out the El Co, but the women refused to go there at night. Personally, I would have walked over there without a thought, but the women wouldn't. I did carry a money clip instead of a wallet, and kept my hand in my pocket while we walked. I have done that in the past on the Strip as well, though. I saw more LVPD and private security officers all over downtown that I have on the Strip. Overall, I think it's really pretty safe.

As to what I enjoyed...honestly everything. The Strip doesn't good table games for value players, in my opinion. All of the blackjack is either 6/5 or $25/hand which I can't do. I was a bit disappointed to see quite a few 6/5 tables on Fremont St., but at California, Golden Gate, and El Cortez, there were good, cheap, 3/2 games available. The only 3/4/5 odds craps I saw was at Fitzgeralds. Otherwise everyplace was 5x or 10x. I guess Fremont and California both had 2x according to Mr. T, but I didn't even check at those properties. I'd say the disadvantages to Downtown would be fewer higher quality dining options, and less glitz. I would personally be content with never going back to the Strip. I will probably hold out to see what kind of room rates I can get in the future. Harrah's still sends me good offers, and our last trip was October '09. By the next time we return to Vegas, those offers will probably have dried up...

Awesome trip report. I am a huge advocate and fan of downtown and reading this gave me the warm fuzzies!

As far as safety I agree with you. I am a smaller person, sometimes drink more than I should, and have characteristics that make me "look like a victim" and I always feel safe in the well traveled parts of downtown even alone.

Next time you come, if you haven't tried it already go the the 777 Brew Pub @ MSS. It is soo good. Also a detail you may have left out is how pleasant the Go Go stage near the craps table @ GG can be (I look at it instead of the table when I have larger bets riding). Also the deep fried amazingness (twinkies, oreos, and candy bars) should not be missed, especially when trying to soak up excess alcohol.

Wish I could go shoot dice downtown soon, but I'm tied up with some contractors working around the house for a bit :(

What's MSS stand for?

Quote: Robmorrow

What's MSS stand for?

Main Street Station.

Famous for its microbrewery.
A downtown casino offering good bargains on rooms and food, 20x at craps and the microbrews are comped on the gaming floor but cheap even if you have to go to the bar and pay for them.
Downtown crowd with alot of orientals and retirees.

One thing to remember about players club cards is that you do not have to go to the Club Desk to join. The Pit Clerk will be sent over with your drivers license to join for you and the Floorman will hand you your card while you are playing. Also... you have to be in the computer at the time they ISSUE the comp but that doesn't mean that your recent play can't be acknowledged. As long as they have a club number to put into their computer system for you, they can issue a meal comp to you.
Its best if you go to the desk yourself: that way you can give a different mailing address if you prefer or you can get a freebie trinket or the like.

I always get a players club card. Some people who check out of the hotel but later play that day do not use their club cards for fear the computer will consider it a separate visit at low play.

In my first trip to Vegas, early on the trip, I signed up for the Sahara player card (I was staying there). The woman at the desk advised me not to play anywhere without getting a player card first. I've done just that at very casino.

As for safety, I have one rule I stick by: do not walk empty streets at any time, but especially not at night. I wouldn't cross from Fremont St. to the Cortez at night, but during the daytime it's ok. The blocks where the Fremont St. experience is located are safe at any time.

Great trip report, I really enjoyed it! I have to say I'm a little surprised you couldn't find more $5 3/2 downtown. I thought 6/5 was relegated to the strip - outside of the party pits. Are DT casinos only offering $5 tables in the party pits now?

Besides EC with 3/2 $3, 4q's has $10 3/2 with no royal match. At night stay off that 1 block stretch between EC and Fremont. Even during the day NOW, the homeless and druggies have increased. The latest is to wait for the bus and ask for bus fare. Also, the stretch between Sahara and Strat is a war zone, especially at night. One dealer at Sahara told me he now avoids the section between Sahara and Mcdonalds.

Quote: likeplayingcrapsandbj

Also, the stretch between Sahara and Strat is a war zone, especially at night. One dealer at Sahara told me he now avoids the section between Sahara and Mcdonalds.

The McDonalds at the corner of Sahara and Paradise? Like, almost across the street from the hotel entrance?


For the record, I was in Vegas last September, staying at the Sahara. On my first night, I walked along Sahara all the way to the Albertsons at Sahara & Maryland (I took the bus back). On my second night, I walked from the convention center along Paradise to the Sahara. On my third night, I walked from the Stratosphere to the Sahara. On my last night, I walked from the hotel to the McD's in question, with my luggage, grabbed some grub, then walked back down Paradise to the #108 bus stop, waited about 15 minutes, then got on for my ride to the airport.

Maybe the area downtown is rougher, but I felt that Vegas was no more dangerous than any other city.


The key is, don't look like a distracted tourist.

Quote: Nareed

As for safety, I have one rule I stick by: do not walk empty streets at any time, but especially not at night. I wouldn't cross from Fremont St. to the Cortez at night, but during the daytime it's ok. The blocks where the Fremont St. experience is located are safe at any time.

I disagree about the safety between the FSE and El Cortez at night. My wife and I walk it all the time at all hours and have never had a problem or even been approached. EC always has a security guard hanging out on the corner, and we usually pass at least two police officers on the way.

The only time I've ever felt uncomfortable was walking down Ogden between MSS and the Gold Spike. It's fairly isolated along that stretch and the homeless like to use it to get up and down downtown (since they aren't welcome on Fremont).

I'd actually be surprised if Fremont has more crime than the Strip. The Strip has a much higher density, a higher percentage of drunks, more money, and longer stretches of isolation. Seems like the place where pickpockets and muggers would prefer to hang out.

/\ /\ /\

I agree with this assessment based on past experience (not this trip, because the girls refused to even try). I personally figured that if all four of us made that walk, we'd be safe. One person, or maybe even a couple, I might not. I would certainly not do it if I had been drinking before hand.

Enjoyed reading your trip report - it was very informative and gives me food for thought prior to my pending trip.

Was somewhat surprised to read that you found $5 3:2 BJ at the California, as I thought that all casinos in DT had pretty much gone to 6:5 on single deck.

Good information.

Quote: justbrent

I disagree about the safety between the FSE and El Cortez at night. My wife and I walk it all the time at all hours and have never had a problem or even been approached. EC always has a security guard hanging out on the corner, and we usually pass at least two police officers on the way.

I'm speaking for myself only. I travel alone and carry a fair amount, for me, of cash, and usually a camera also (no other irreplaceable valuables).

Some years ago I was robbed at gunpoint, in broad daylight, on an empty side street next to a bank. Had I not tried to use a shortcut to the parking lot, I don't think I'd have been robbed. Since then I avoid empty streets, especially at night.

Forget the walk to ElCo. If you want an adventure, take off by yourself after dark on a walk down to the Western. You are sure to meet some interesting individuals. I'm not sure why anyone would go to the Western, but just saying...come to think of it I don't understand how places like that keep their doors open.

Quote: pecogg

Enjoyed reading your trip report - it was very informative and gives me food for thought prior to my pending trip.

Was somewhat surprised to read that you found $5 3:2 BJ at the California, as I thought that all casinos in DT had pretty much gone to 6:5 on single deck.

Good information.

The $5 game at the Cal would be double deck, not single. The only places offering 3:2 single deck are ElCo, 4Q (with d10), Binion's (with d10).

Quote: justbrent

EC always has a security guard hanging out on the corner, and we usually pass at least two police officers on the way.

I have spoken to those guards several times this last year and they always tell me to stay off the street at night. There is a reason EC has security guards.

Sorry...guess I just read single-deck into it. $5, DD, 3:2, is still not bad, depending on the rules.

Quote: thegov2k2

The $5 game at the Cal would be double deck, not single. The only places offering 3:2 single deck are ElCo, 4Q (with d10), Binion's (with d10).

I stand corrected. That was at the end of the night, and I was worn out from the night before. Now that you mention it, it was definitely double deck. My friend and I were perplexed as to why at the same time of night, the California was super quiet when they offer reasonable rules, and Binion's was hopping with crappy games...

Quote: likeplayingcrapsandbj

I have spoken to those guards several times this last year and they always tell me to stay off the street at night. There is a reason EC has security guards.

I always figured it was because they wanted people to feel more comfortable walking the two blocks between the end of the FSE and El Cortez. I'm pretty sure EC doesn't hire them to scare off customers, although it sounds like what they are doing.

Seriously, though, There are multiple businesses open between FSE and El Cortez, there is a reasonable amount of foot traffic, even late at night, and the lighting is adequate, if not great. I guess it's possible that a crazed lunatic might jump out in plain sight and attack you during the walk, but that's possible a under the canopy at FSE, on the Strip, or just about anywhere. I have made the walk, after dark, at least 8 times in the last 18 months, and I have never even been approached by a pan handler. I am approached by a panhandler at least once a week, in broad daylight, walking to lunch from my office building in downtown Dallas.

Maybe it's just a question of the level of risk that you are willing to tolerate. I think it's a pretty low risk proposition. Certainly less risky than playing the tables with higher minimums and less favorable odds in the FSE out of fear of taking a two block stroll.

I would never hesitate to walk to the ElCo after dark, and others shouldn't be scared away either. Of course if your that bothered by homeless/druggies then you probably shouldn't be in Vegas to begin with. Sure they are odd, but relatively harmless. Heck earlier this year this was a report of someone being kidnapped right by the Tropicana on the strip.

Now, as I've said, venturing much past the ElCo at night...well you probably won't find much there but some really cheap and dirty propositions.

Quote: StingMe

I stand corrected. That was at the end of the night, and I was worn out from the night before. Now that you mention it, it was definitely double deck. My friend and I were perplexed as to why at the same time of night, the California was super quiet when they offer reasonable rules, and Binion's was hopping with crappy games...

I don't know if I'd call the Cal game reasonable...there's no das or anything, just h17. It's reasonable for downtown, at least they're dealing more than halfway through. When I visited last month, MSS wasn't even giving 50%.

I never leave my room with more money than I can afford to lose at the tables. If I were mugged, I would therefore only lose what I had pre-determined I could lose. This may be flawed logic, but I think it's a valid point. When you walk anywhere, you probably shouldn't carry more cash than you can afford to lose. It would be much better to lose any amount of money at the tables than at gunpoint, though.


I wanted to briefly touch on a point that was brought up in another thread prior to my trip. I mentioned that I pricelined my room at GN. Another poster mentioned that he believe it was error for players to do this, because if you book through the hotel, you're more likely to have your room comped. I was able to obtain both meals I charged to me room comped. Personally, I was happy with that. It was $55 in comps. The wife and I put probably around $2500-3000 through the machines at the GN. I maybe could have received a comped room, but everything worked out. As I stated prior, we basically paid for all our expenses with our winnings on this trip.

That being said, I will probably book through the GN on my next trip. First of all, I might simply get a better deal from the get go, whether it's comped or paid. Second, I certainly can't expect to win like I did on this trip. Even though things worked out very well for me this time, they might not, and likely won't, the next. The other thing I don't think I can rely on a second time is the $20 sandwich trick to get into the Rush Tower. My wife will want to stay in that tower again, so I think I'll just book it, and not risk the possible disappointment of being turned down on the $20 trick.

Yet another point I want to bring up. There really was a lot of 6/5 blackjack Downtown, which was a bit disheartening. Overall, blackjack wasn't that great for me over my trip, and I think I'm honestly going to focus my play on craps in future. In some strange way, I think I enjoy playing blackjack here in Missouri more than in Vegas. Craps, however, is much more thrilling out there for a number of reasons.

Quote: thegov2k2

The $5 game at the Cal would be double deck, not single. The only places offering 3:2 single deck are ElCo, 4Q (with d10), Binion's (with d10).

What does d10 mean?

Did you try walking to the El Cortez through the new "walkway" they cleared to their front entrance? It's just north of Fremont street. It is well lit and landscaped and the security guard from the ElCo can see you as you walk down it from Las Vegas Boulevard.

What is the $20 sandwich trick? It is just showing a folded up $20 bill to the check-in person, or something else?

I can never get upgrades, so I guess I need to change my approach. And I'm staying at the GN next month, so I can use all the help I can get on trying for an upgrade.

Quote: justbrent

What is the $20 sandwich trick? It is just showing a folded up $20 bill to the check-in person, or something else?

I can never get upgrades, so I guess I need to change my approach. And I'm staying at the GN next month, so I can use all the help I can get on trying for an upgrade.

Yep, wrapping a $20 around your driver's license when checking in and asking if an upgrade is available. If you don't want to go that route, just ask how much of a bribe you need to pay to get a better room :-)

Quote: ruascott

Yep, wrapping a $20 around your driver's license when checking in and asking if an upgrade is available. If you don't want to go that route, just ask how much of a bribe you need to pay to get a better room :-)

I don't want to de-rail this thread, but I'm hoping that somebody can help me understand this better. If it's best to move to a new topic, I can do that.

I've been to the twenty dollar website, and it says that you slip the person $20, and ask for a "complimentary upgrade". So, to me, this implies that the upgrade is free, and is offered by the hotel, and that giving the person $20 "encourages" them to look for this free upgrade. I guess my question is, what if you just asked if there was a complimentary upgrade available, without the $20? Am I supposed to believe that the person then wouldn't offer it to me?

Quote: konceptum

I don't want to de-rail this thread, but I'm hoping that somebody can help me understand this better. If it's best to move to a new topic, I can do that.

I've been to the twenty dollar website, and it says that you slip the person $20, and ask for a "complimentary upgrade". So, to me, this implies that the upgrade is free, and is offered by the hotel, and that giving the person $20 "encourages" them to look for this free upgrade. I guess my question is, what if you just asked if there was a complimentary upgrade available, without the $20? Am I supposed to believe that the person then wouldn't offer it to me?

It may be wise to start another thread (not that it bothers me, and this is my thread), or do a search because I bet there's another thread on this topic. This was my experience just to re-cap...

My friend booked the rooms on priceline about two months ago. He put in Four Stars, Downtown, which would only apply to the Golden Nugget. He bid $59 for Thursday-Sunday/per room for two rooms. When I got there, his wife was already checked-in. I presented the $20 to the desk clerk (female) between my credit card and DL. I said, "Are there any upgrades available." She smirked a bit (my wife caught it too, and laughed). She said to me, "you booked through priceline, and we put your two rooms adjacent to each other. Don't you want to be next to your family?" (We were not family, just friends, but that doesn't matter). I responded, "no, that's not really necessary." She quickly said, "I can put you in the Rush Tower." I said, "that sounds great."

Sometimes, a little grease does go a long way.

Quote: StingMe

I presented the $20 to the desk clerk (female) between my credit card and DL. I said, "Are there any upgrades available." She smirked a bit (my wife caught it too, and laughed). She said to me, "you booked through priceline, and we put your two rooms adjacent to each other. Don't you want to be next to your family?" (We were not family, just friends, but that doesn't matter). I responded, "no, that's not really necessary." She quickly said, "I can put you in the Rush Tower." I said, "that sounds great."

Sometimes, a little grease does go a long way.

Does the hotel clerk keep the tip or put it in a tips pool or give it to the hotel?

Quote: Nareed

As for safety, I have one rule I stick by: do not walk empty streets at any time, but especially not at night. I wouldn't cross from Fremont St. to the Cortez at night.

The area between the Fremont Street canopy and the El Cortez is not empty at night. It actually includes three or four extremely popular non-gaming bars. You'll see a lot of UNLV students and young hipsters hanging out, chatting outside. If you're so paralyzed by fear that you can't catch your breath, stop off in the piano bar or the falafel shop on the way until you get your wits about you.

Quote: likeplayingcrapsandbj

Does the hotel clerk keep the tip or put it in a tips pool or give it to the hotel?

I have always been under the presumption that the clerk keeps the tip for him/herself.

I would note that this trick apparently doesn't work everywhere, and that some hotels in Vegas have taken steps to prevent it. From personal experience, I can say that Bally's and Flamingo (both Harrah's properties) have taken such steps. What they do is have the clerks offer upgrades for a slight up charge. In the past, I have had South Tower comped rooms at Bally's, and was offered a North Tower room for $20/night more. We chose to stick with the South Tower for free at the time... My cousin and my Dad both report that Flamingo always offers a "GO" room upgrade to their comped guests for about the same $20/night upcharge.

There are also a couple of convenience stores, one or two souvenir shops, a tattoo place, and an art gallery. The covenience stores are a little dingy, but appear reputable enough. The souvenir shops are average for the area. The tattoo place is very nice with very friendly and helpful employees. The art gallery just opened, but I've read good things.

Some of the descriptions that I've read in this thread make it sound like a back alley in Newark. It's a commerical district in a working class neighborhood with a visible police and private security presence. If you're not comfortable, don't make the walk. But I think it's a little unfair to give the impression that it's some type of hot bed for crime, because it's not.

Quote: justbrent

There are also a couple of convenience stores, one or two souvenir shops, a tattoo place, and an art gallery. The covenience stores are a little dingy, but appear reputable enough. The souvenir shops are average for the area. The tattoo place is very nice with very friendly and helpful employees. The art gallery just opened, but I've read good things.

Some of the descriptions that I've read in this thread make it sound like a back alley in Newark. It's a commerical district in a working class neighborhood with a visible police and private security presence. If you're not comfortable, don't make the walk. But I think it's a little unfair to give the impression that it's some type of hot bed for crime, because it's not.

I agree with you, but my wife doesn't. Although I would try to make the world think otherwise, what she says goes, and I don't argue.

Quote: StingMe

I agree with you, but my wife doesn't. Although I would try to make the world think otherwise, what she says goes, and I don't argue.

I'm not taking issue with your description.

It's actually kind of a shame not to make the walk at night because there are some incredible neon signs out in front. The giant martini glass is a favorite of mine. In fact, there's a picture of it that my wife took hanging on our bathroom wall.

El Cortez did put a well lit walkway with music from Las Vegas Blvd to there Port Cochere. The gaurds keep an eye on it. It gives you an alternative to that block of Fremont Street.

It is not dangerous, but you will get panhandled.
* The downtowner bar on Las Vegas Blvd a few hundred yards south of Fremont Street is one of the trendier upscale bars, guests are media, lawyers, and artists. Very unassuming entrance, but it is nice inside.
* The Griffin bar, the Beauty bar, and "Don't tell Mama" (piano bar) all have middle class customers. The Beauty Bar is open late and features alternative music, so is more geared at the very young. The piano bar has older people and a mix of gay straight. Excellent singers.
*Emergency Arts (next to the El Cortez) has a coffee shop with free wi-fi (very short supply downtown) so bring your laptop. It is opening a number of galleries. Many of the same people are in the downtowner late at night.

The Western is not really dangerous either, but it is so disgusting that you will not be able to breathe.

Quote: StingMe

I agree with you, but my wife doesn't. Although I would try to make the world think otherwise, what she says goes, and I don't argue.

Yeah, I think we understand your point of view. It was someone else that posted and said they'd never walk down there after dark, or ever during the day. All I can say is that individual must not be from a major city, or spend much time in one. We just felt it necessary to defend a good establisment like the ElCo and not scare any casual readers from making the trip, as its no more dangerous than walking the strip.

Quote: teddys

What does d10 mean?

d10 is shorthand for "Doubling is only allowed with totals of 10 or 11".

Quote: StingMe

I agree with you, but my wife doesn't. Although I would try to make the world think otherwise, what she says goes, and I don't argue.

A lot of women freak out in that 'hood. If you look at police reports that block does not have a lot of crime, but you are getting closer to the district. They used it as a backrop in the Disney movie Race to Witch Mountain which was released in 2009.

El Cortez is celbrating it's 70 years in business next year, as the oldest casino resort in Las Vegas (purpose built with hotel rooms). Jackie's 90th birthday is this year.

If you are staying downtown, I would suggest the convenience stores as a place to buy your water, snacks, beer, and so forth. The Don't tell Mama piano bar is a truly something different for Vegas.

A very nice Mexican bar is going up on the opposite (East) side of El Cortez.

Quote: pacomartin

A lot of women freak out in that 'hood. If you look at police reports that block does not have a lot of crime, but you are getting closer to the district. They used it as a backrop in the Disney movie Race to Witch Mountain which was released in 2009.

I had to watch the trailer for that movie. It looks like such a stinker! With the Rock as its main star, what do you expect, right?

I've had a few very good meals in the area between FSE and the El Cortez. The abovementioned gyro shop is small, friendly and family-owned. It was full of families eating authentic Middle Eastern food on the night I went.

Closer to the El, there's a place called Mamacita's that serves both Cuban and Mexican food. It's inexpensive and really good, despite serving two separate cuisines which normally aren't mixed.

The pizza place next to the gyro shop reminds me of pizza places in New York. Enough said.

Quote: nyuhoosier

The abovementioned gyro shop is small, friendly and family-owned. It was full of families eating authentic Middle Eastern food on the night I went.

Closer to the El, there's a place called Mamacita's that serves both Cuban and Mexican food. It's inexpensive and really good, despite serving two separate cuisines which normally aren't mixed.

The gyro shop is Pakistani owned. The hallal meat (drained of blood) meets Islamic standards, but it is popular with people who keep kosher (including the mayor). It's quite tasty.

I am not so fond of Mamacitas, as there are better Mexican and Cuban places in the city.

The only free wi-fi so far has been the Krispy Creme at Fitzgeralds, so the new coffee shop next to the El Cortez is a welcome addition.