caesars AC trip report

I had a $75 direct bet or free-bet coupon for the tables.

I threw it on red at roulette. Ball landed red, up $75. Decided to let it ride. What the hell, I hadn't taken any money out my pocket yet.

Ball dropped in red, up $150. Fuck it, let it ride.

Got red again, up $300.

Was about to take the money when this guy at the table informed me I should switch to black if I want to keep winning. I said that was stupid. If there was a streak, I would ride it till one loss, not get hit with a bunch of losses waiting for one win. You don't know if that ball is going to keep landing on red.

We went back and forth until the guy basically challenged me by stating if I really thought streaks happened that often I would have no qualms about betting red again. So, I grabbed a buck fifty off the table and let the other half go again.

Red, up to $450 with $300 on the table. This guy still wouldn't shut up, talking about how I got supremely lucky and any intelligent person would now bet black. So I let it ride.

Red again, up to $750 with six on the table. I grabbed a buck off and let $500 go for the next spin.

Red again, let it ride.

red again, grabbed $500 for myself and let $1500 go for the next spin.

red again, grabbed a grand and let the table max go for the next spin. Pit boss was called over for that and the dealer explained how I had worked up from a free-bet. He congratulated me and asked for my players card (I hadn't planned on staying for more than two or three spins but now, I was like sure here's my card).

Before this table max spin, the other guy laid three hundred on the table and said, "Put it all on black. I'm gonna prove a point to this guy."

So he had three hundred on black while I had two grand on red.

Ball lands on red. I'm up to $3,750. I let the table max ride again.

Ball lands on red. Up to $5,750. Let the table max ride again.

Well, unfortunately, my ride was up. I lost that one and I made a couple of other fifty dollar bets to see if I could get another streak but finally left with $3500 in purple and all from a free-bet.

The guy I was arguing with shook my hand when I left. He was very gracious about it.

Here's a pic of my purple.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203226269512531&l=6ea1e011ec

Nice.

There's nothing more annoying than other people telling you how to bet your own money.

not sure what you are implying, but streaks mean nothing in roulette

Quote: strictlyAP

not sure what you are implying, but streaks mean nothing in roulette

I'm referring to a method of play based on streaks. Not that I have a way of predicting them but if they do happen and I catch one I will win instead of lose.

Forgetting the zero's, there are only three possible outcomes within a string of outcomes.

All red
All black
red and black mixture.

If the table is all red and you're betting black that's a whole bunch of losses
If the table is all black and you're betting red, that's a whole bunch of losses
and probably you're losing when the table is hopping randomly back and forth.

I like to play so if I catch a streak of red I am winning through the streak not losing. And the same with black.

I've seen many streaks but unfortunately I was not always at the table when they happened as I came at the tail end.

Can't predict when they will occur but when they do, go with the streak, that's all I'm saying.

There's nothing right about it, but there's nothing wrong about it either. If it's the style of play that makes you happy, go for it. This time it was the right choice, and it sure showed a thing or two to Mr. Do-What-I-Say-With-Your-Money.

Quote: Deucekies

There's nothing right about it, but there's nothing wrong about it either. If it's the style of play that makes you happy, go for it. This time it was the right choice, and it sure showed a thing or two to Mr. Do-What-I-Say-With-Your-Money.

Perhaps I should elaborate.

If the ball has landed on black several times in a row, then lets say you bet red.

Now if six more spins land on black you've lost six straight times.

Instead, I advocate betting on the black. Now if the ball lands six more times on black, you've won six times.

"BUT, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE BALL LANDS ON RED THAT FIRST SPIN" I hear you yelling.

That's fine too. You've only lost ONE spin. Leave.

That's the way I do it.

Quote: darkoz

Perhaps I should elaborate.

If the ball has landed on black several times in a row, then lets say you bet red.

Now if six more spins land on black you've lost six straight times.

Instead, I advocate betting on the black. Now if the ball lands six more times on black, you've won six times.

"BUT, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE BALL LANDS ON RED THAT FIRST SPIN" I hear you yelling.

That's fine too. You've only lost ONE spin. Leave.

That's the way I do it.

And that's fine. Your pattern is to go for streaks. I might go for chops. Another guy might go for RRBBRRBB.

Mathematically, no one way of doing it is better or worse than another, and I think that's what others were getting at.

Was at the MGM 8 years ago, streak of 7 blacks
on board. Guy comes running up with his luggage
and put $100 on red, lose. $200 on red, lose.
$400 on red, lose. $800 on red, lose. He looked
like a balloon that's been popped. He says he just
blew his whole trip BR and he hadn't even checked
in yet. I pipe up and say, follow the streak and you
only lose once. If looks could kill, it would be the
one he gave me. That was in my wising up chumps
days..

Quote: EvenBob

Was at the MGM 8 years ago, streak of 7 blacks
on board. Guy comes running up with his luggage
and put $100 on red, lose. $200 on red, lose.
$400 on red, lose. $800 on red, lose. He looked
like a balloon that's been popped. He says he just
blew his whole trip BR and he hadn't even checked
in yet.

Eww.

Tell this story whenever someone even thinks the word "martingale".

Quote: Deucekies

Eww.

Tell this story whenever someone even thinks the word "martingale".

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. If this guy had put the hundred on black instead and made the same bets he would have made $1500 in four spins while still only risking the initial $100.

Or just made four $100 bets and been up $400.

And if the ball had landed on red after all, he'd only have been down $100 (assuming he didn't chase it once the streak ended.)

Quote: Deucekies

Eww.

Tell this story whenever someone even thinks the word "martingale".

To add insult to injury, there were three more
blacks after he quit betting. Then he started
ranting about a gaffed wheel, and how the
casino cheated him. He eventually wandered
away and I think I heard a body hit a parked
car from the 17th floor a little later. Some
people are just slow learners..

I use these free play coupons at CET properties the same way. For some idiotic reason the CET free bet coupons will only let you bet certain bets. Red, low and even in Roulette. But not Black, high or odd. I'm sure the suits upstairs have their reasons. But I doubt they are based on reason. Anyway If I have say a 20 freebet coupon I put it on Red and if it wins, let it ride a couple of times. $20 means little to me..letting it ride 3 or 4 times pays for a nice steak dinner. People are always admonishing me to "take the money and run". I say "what money" I started with nothing. I've never had the stones to let it ride up to the thousands like this OP. Nice hit. Nice picture of the purple too.

Quote: vendman1

I use these free play coupons at CET properties the same way. For some idiotic reason the CET free bet coupons will only let you bet certain bets. Red, low and even in Roulette. But not Black, high or odd. I'm sure the suits upstairs have their reasons. But I doubt they are based on reason. Anyway If I have say a 20 freebet coupon I put it on Red and if it wins, let it ride a couple of times. $20 means little to me..letting it ride 3 or 4 times pays for a nice steak dinner. People are always admonishing me to "take the money and run". I say "what money" I started with nothing. I've never had the stones to let it ride up to the thousands like this OP. Nice hit. Nice picture of the purple too.

Thanks Vendman1.

As for the limited betting options, that's to keep two people from betting opposite each other and guaranteeing profit. If you bet $75 free-bet on black and I bet $75 free-bet on red one of us would have to win $75. We could then agree to split the money later.

And for those who are wondering about the zeros, in Atlantic City the outside bets lose only half. So when using a freebet coupon, the zero results in you being handed the coupon back for another spin. So, guaranteed profit.

Unfortunately they sweat any advantage so the free-bet can only be used on red or even or 1-18.

Quote: darkoz

red again, grabbed $500 for myself and let $1500 go for the next spin.

red again, grabbed a grand and let the table max go for the next spin. Pit boss was called over for that and the dealer explained how I had worked up from a free-bet. He congratulated me and asked for my players card (I hadn't planned on staying for more than two or three spins but now, I was like sure here's my card).

Before this table max spin, the other guy laid three hundred on the table and said, "Put it all on black. I'm gonna prove a point to this guy."

So he had three hundred on black while I had two grand on red.

B

$2000.usd is the table max on an even money bet at a joint like Caesars in AC? What's the world coming to????

Quote: NokTang

$2000.usd is the table max on an even money bet at a joint like Caesars in AC? What's the world coming to????

Every table in the casino should accept 5 digit bets? I highly doubt he went to the HL room with his $75 initial bet.

Quote: tringlomane

Every table in the casino should accept 5 digit bets? I highly doubt he went to the HL room with his $75 initial bet.

lol, no it was a ten dollar table on the main floor

Quote: tringlomane

Every table in the casino should accept 5 digit bets? I highly doubt he went to the HL room with his $75 initial bet.

$2000.usd max on an American Roulette table, even money bets, is a joke, an insult, to the customers and gambling public. You expect that at rinky dinky casinos, not the Caesars of the world. We are in this to win, not be worked like idiots with such low limits.

Quote: darkoz

Thanks Vendman1.

As for the limited betting options, that's to keep two people from betting opposite each other and guaranteeing profit. If you bet $75 free-bet on black and I bet $75 free-bet on red one of us would have to win $75. We could then agree to split the money later.

And for those who are wondering about the zeros, in Atlantic City the outside bets lose only half. So when using a freebet coupon, the zero results in you being handed the coupon back for another spin. So, guaranteed profit.

Unfortunately they sweat any advantage so the free-bet can only be used on red or even or 1-18.

Um, no. If you bet red/black/odd/even and green hits you lose the slip and keep your money.

Quote: Lemieux66

Um, no. If you bet red/black/odd/even and green hits you lose the slip and keep your money.

Um, no, you retain the slip.

You are thinking of a match-play - $75 coupon with $75 of your own cash. This was a Free-Play. There is no money of yours to retain. You retain the slip.

And I know this for a fact. That incident was not the only time I have received a Direct-Bet from Caesars and I have had a zero come out on my first spin. They give you back the coupon.

Quote: darkoz

I had a $75 direct bet or free-bet coupon for the tables....

Ball lands on red. Up to $5,750. Let the table max ride again.

Well, unfortunately, my ride was up.

Here's a pic of my purple.

snip %<Brag link>%

Always assuming that your story isn't a complete fabrication, good on you for sticking it to the stupid smart455 who knew your streak was due to bust. It was all worthwhile just for the anecdotal value.

But equally, your belief in streaks is also nonsense. Each bet after the initial one was with your own real money that was available to spend, including the one you lost. With your belief in streaks, you as likely to end your life a loser as the rest of us, if not more so.

Quote: OnceDear

Always assuming that your story isn't a complete fabrication, good on you for sticking it to the stupid smart455 who knew your streak was due to bust. It was all worthwhile just for the anecdotal value.

But equally, your belief in streaks is also nonsense. Each bet after the initial one was with your own real money that was available to spend, including the one you lost. With your belief in streaks, you as likely to end your life a loser as the rest of us, if not more so.

Um, did I say I was selling a streak system? Or that I had a system that would beat roulette and I was about to live off its proceeds?

In no way do streaks eliminate the house edge. I totally agree. My argument is that it is better to bet with the table's last few spins (BTW that is any streak so even if you see R-B-R-B that is a checkerboard streak) to go with it as it WILL LIMIT YOUR LOSSES TO ONE SPIN. If the streak ends you lost just that one spin.

Now if you keep spinning that has nothing to do with streaks.

And will I be a lifetime winner due to streaks? Of course not. But WHEN I catch a streak like I did last week, then I will be a very LARGE SHORT-TERM WINNER.

Assuming I have the balls to keep riding it like I did. I admit, I don't always have those balls. Sometimes I regret that. It was easier coming from a free-play.

Quote: darkoz

Um, did I say I was selling a streak system?

. No. i'll grant you that.

Quote:

My argument is that it is better to bet with the table's last few spins ... as it WILL LIMIT YOUR LOSSES TO ONE SPIN. If the streak ends you lost just that one spin.

What? And then you stop betting and walk out of the Casino?

Quote:

then I will be a very LARGE SHORT-TERM WINNER.

Until you walk or lose. How do you decide what few $$$ to remove from the table? How do you choose when to cash in and walk before losing it all? Or do you leave your wedge of money on the table till the inevitable wipeout? It might be better to NOT have the balls and miss the last win of the streak if you quit too soon and lift your money and run.

Anyway. Nice anecdote. kudos for that.

Quote: darkoz

Um, no, you retain the slip.

You are thinking of a match-play - $75 coupon with $75 of your own cash. This was a Free-Play. There is no money of yours to retain. You retain the slip.

And I know this for a fact. That incident was not the only time I have received a Direct-Bet from Caesars and I have had a zero come out on my first spin. They give you back the coupon.

That's right that's right. I don't get free things like that.

Quote: darkoz

Um, no, you retain the slip.

You are thinking of a match-play - $75 coupon with $75 of your own cash. This was a Free-Play. There is no money of yours to retain. You retain the slip.

And I know this for a fact. That incident was not the only time I have received a Direct-Bet from Caesars and I have had a zero come out on my first spin. They give you back the coupon.

I have an inquiry with the NJDGE on how Direct Bets are handled in Roulette when a '0' or '00' is the result of the spin. In both instances I bet RED and the spin resulted in a '0'.

One casino took the Direct Bet coupon and gave me 1/2 the value of the coupon in chips.

Another casino wouldn't pay me 1/2 the value. They said that I must keep the Direct Bet coupon there for another spin. When Black was the result of the next spin they took the coupon. I was p*ssed and left the table. That's when I decided to file an inquiry with the NJDGE on how the Direct Bet should be handled. I will let you know how the DGE ruled when they notify me.

On a side note, one time the dealer didn't know what to do. She paid me 1/2 the value and let me keep the coupon. I went to another table, placed it on Red and won. That resulted in 1 1/2 the value of the Direct Bet coupon.

Quote: FatGeezus

I have an inquiry with the NJDGE on how Direct Bets are handled in Roulette when a '0' or '00' is the result of the spin. In both instances I bet RED and the spin resulted in a '0'.

One casino took the Direct Bet coupon and gave me 1/2 the value of the coupon in chips.

Another casino wouldn't pay me 1/2 the value. They said that I must keep the Direct Bet coupon there for another spin. When Black was the result of the next spin they took the coupon. I was p*ssed and left the table. That's when I decided to file an inquiry with the NJDGE on how the Direct Bet should be handled. I will let you know how the DGE ruled when they notify me.

On a side note, one time the dealer didn't know what to do. She paid me 1/2 the value and let me keep the coupon. I went to another table, placed it on Red and won. That resulted in 1 1/2 the value of the Direct Bet coupon.

It might be up to the individual casino. Were both instances CET properties? The term direct bet is theirs so am not sure if you mean you had a free-play coupon in general or an actual direct bet.

Although you would have won 1/2 the money instead of losing to the black, you also could have won the entire amount if it had been a red. I kind of like the idea of being handed back the coupon on zero's. I means I don't have to fret about those numbers. To me it turns the spin into a "free odds" bet since the zero's are neutralized when using the coupon.

Quote: FatGeezus

...One casino took the Direct Bet coupon and gave me 1/2 the value of the coupon in chips.

Another casino wouldn't pay me 1/2 the value. They said that I must keep the Direct Bet coupon there for another spin. When Black was the result of the next spin they took the coupon. I was p*ssed and left the table. That's when I decided to file an inquiry with the NJDGE on how the Direct Bet should be handled. I will let you know how the DGE ruled when they notify me.

On a side note, one time the dealer didn't know what to do. She paid me 1/2 the value and let me keep the coupon. I went to another table, placed it on Red and won. That resulted in 1 1/2 the value of the Direct Bet coupon.

And a pair of dealers in Caesar's paid me the full amount of my direct bet after 0 came up for my bet on even. I objected but lost that argument and took the winnings. I'm sure the dealers are not trained on how to treat a direct bet at roulette.

Quote: darkoz

My argument is that it is better to bet with the table's last few spins (BTW that is any streak so even if you see R-B-R-B that is a checkerboard streak) to go with it as it WILL LIMIT YOUR LOSSES TO ONE SPIN. If the streak ends you lost just that one spin.

The point that you're missing is that it doesn't matter what the table's last few spins are. You can do the same thing by just randomly picking from {even, odd, red, black} and just leave after you lose once.

In other words, it's not the fact that you are "betting a streak" that limits your losses to one spin. It's that fact that you stop betting after you lose that limits your losses to one spin.

Quote: FatGeezus

I have an inquiry with the NJDGE on how Direct Bets are handled in Roulette when a '0' or '00' is the result of the spin. In both instances I bet RED and the spin resulted in a '0'.

One casino took the Direct Bet coupon and gave me 1/2 the value of the coupon in chips.

Another casino wouldn't pay me 1/2 the value. They said that I must keep the Direct Bet coupon there for another spin. When Black was the result of the next spin they took the coupon. I was p*ssed and left the table. That's when I decided to file an inquiry with the NJDGE on how the Direct Bet should be handled. I will let you know how the DGE ruled when they notify me.

FatGeezus:

I had a direct bet today and read the fine print. There is a line in it which is very clear. It reads:

"This Direct Bet Coupon may only be wagered once regardless of the outcome."

That would point to the proper procedure on the zeros to be a surrender of half the value of the voucher and for you to be paid. Not handed back your voucher as I was or for the voucher to be forced to remain there for another spin.

I used the voucher today (lost it) but next week I will approach a pit boss and question how the return of the voucher goes against their own printed rules.

If you didn't notice that, you might want to add that to your NJDGE enquiry.

well explained axiom

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

The point that you're missing is that it doesn't matter what the table's last few spins are. You can do the same thing by just randomly picking from {even, odd, red, black} and just leave after you lose once.

In other words, it's not the fact that you are "betting a streak" that limits your losses to one spin. It's that fact that you stop betting after you lose that limits your losses to one spin.

I completely agree with you.

I am not missing that point--I was simply not arguing it to begin with. As I stated in an earlier post, I am not advocating streak betting as a system for overcoming the house edge at roulette. My argument is WHEN a streak has occurred (as randomly by chance as that happens) it is better to have WON all those spins by betting the same side as the streak than to have LOST all those spins by betting against them.

to more succinctly put the argument:

When a streak has concluded, it is better to have won all the spins than to have lost all the spins.

or perhaps it is even better stated as:

When a streak has concluded, it is better to have won all but the last spin than to have lost all but the last spin.

That is the totality of my argument.

omg you just dont get it- you only know its a streak looking back at it- the chance is exactly the same and you will lose or win the same exact amount

Quote: strictlyAP

omg you just dont get it- you only know its a streak looking back at it- the chance is exactly the same and you will lose or win the same exact amount

Sorry, strictlyAP, you just don't get what I am saying.

Since you feel I would have won or lost exactly the same amount(your words above) then had I bet black during my experience in the OP you are stating I would STILL have won $3500 by losing 14 straight spins?

Quote: darkoz

When a streak has concluded, it is better to have won all the spins than to have lost all the spins.

I can't argue with that

Quote: FatGeezus

I have an inquiry with the NJDGE on how Direct Bets are handled in Roulette when a '0' or '00' is the result of the spin. In both instances I bet RED and the spin resulted in a '0'.

One casino took the Direct Bet coupon and gave me 1/2 the value of the coupon in chips.

Another casino wouldn't pay me 1/2 the value. They said that I must keep the Direct Bet coupon there for another spin. When Black was the result of the next spin they took the coupon. I was p*ssed and left the table. That's when I decided to file an inquiry with the NJDGE on how the Direct Bet should be handled. I will let you know how the DGE ruled when they notify me.

On a side note, one time the dealer didn't know what to do. She paid me 1/2 the value and let me keep the coupon. I went to another table, placed it on Red and won. That resulted in 1 1/2 the value of the Direct Bet coupon.

I spoke with a NJDGE state investigator this morning. They investigated my inquiry and they were in agreement with me. The Direct Bet coupon is good for one spin only at roulette. They went to Caesars and asked them what would happen if the coupon is on red and a '0' was the result. Caesars told them, that they would let the coupon be used for another spin. When Caesars was told they were wrong, they argued back that that was the way they always handled it. The NJDGE informed them that they must take the coupon and pay the patron half the value of the coupon. The investigator told me that they are now going to all the casinos to make sure that all the casinos handle direct bet coupons this way.

That was the good news. The bad news was that they said they could do nothing to get me back paid.

In the future, before I place my Direct Bet coupon on the table, I will ask them what happens if the '0' comes out. If I don't here the correct answer, I have the investigators number on my phone.

Thanks for correcting the Caesars' error through the help of the Agent. Many APs will get the benefit of your good deed.

All APs should have that due-care-Agent's phone number handy just in case of "emergency" such as imminent-back-rooming, imminent-lifetime-eviction, imminent false arrest, etc... Hey I attempted to PM you with some confidential stuff, but your PM option is deactivated. If you reactivate your PM option, I'll re-PM you.

Quote: FatGeezus

I spoke with a NJDGE state investigator this morning. They investigated my inquiry and they were in agreement with me. The Direct Bet coupon is good for one spin only at roulette. They went to Caesars and asked them what would happen if the coupon is on red and a '0' was the result. Caesars told them, that they would let the coupon be used for another spin. When Caesars was told they were wrong, they argued back that that was the way they always handled it. The NJDGE informed them that they must take the coupon and pay the patron half the value of the coupon. The investigator told me that they are now going to all the casinos to make sure that all the casinos handle direct bet coupons this way.

That was the good news. The bad news was that they said they could do nothing to get me back paid.

In the future, before I place my Direct Bet coupon on the table, I will ask them what happens if the '0' comes out. If I don't here the correct answer, I have the investigators number on my phone.[/]

I'm OK with Corps which pick and choose clienteles. Both insurance companies and casinos have the right to pick and choose customers. They may keep profitable ones and kicked out the rest. But, I'm not OK with a casino supervisor who says counting cards... is like stealing food from a buffet (a foodlifting offense), or video-taping a movie in a cinema (a piracy offense).

Darkoz, looks like the other player taunting you actually inspired you to continue and keep parlaying your free bet with an occasional skim. Congrats!!!!