3 Card Poker Ante Bonus

I have a question regarding the Ante bonus in 3CP.

I played 3CP for the first time a few months ago at Harrah's in Vegas. I was playing only the Ante bet and not the Pair Plus. I was dealt a straight which beat the dealer's pair, and I was paid for my Ante and my Play bets.

I was expecting to get paid an Ante bonus for getting the straight (they had the Ante Bonus payout on the table), but didn't. I asked the dealer why, and he said that you have to be playing both the Ante bet AND the Pair Plus bet to qualify for the Ante bonus. That seemed strange to me since it is called an Ante Bonus and the Pair Plus has its own pay table.

A floor person happened to be standing very close to my table so I got his attention and asked him about it. He confirmed that you must be playing both Ante & Pair Plus in order to qualify for the Ante Bonus.

Maybe I just don't understand the rules for 3CP, but is this the way the Ante bonus is supposed to work? Or does each casino have its own policy on whether or not you have to be playing the Pair Plus to be eligible for the Ante Bonus?

That's definitely not normal. But, it's not exactly surprising that Harrah's would find yet another way to grab an additional edge on a game...

Quote: blount2000

I have a question regarding the Ante bonus in 3CP.

I played 3CP for the first time a few months ago at Harrah's in Vegas. I was playing only the Ante bet and not the Pair Plus. I was dealt a straight which beat the dealer's pair, and I was paid for my Ante and my Play bets.

I was expecting to get paid an Ante bonus for getting the straight (they had the Ante Bonus payout on the table), but didn't. I asked the dealer why, and he said that you have to be playing both the Ante bet AND the Pair Plus bet to qualify for the Ante bonus. That seemed strange to me since it is called an Ante Bonus and the Pair Plus has its own pay table.

A floor person happened to be standing very close to my table so I got his attention and asked him about it. He confirmed that you must be playing both Ante & Pair Plus in order to qualify for the Ante Bonus.

Maybe I just don't understand the rules for 3CP, but is this the way the Ante bonus is supposed to work? Or does each casino have its own policy on whether or not you have to be playing the Pair Plus to be eligible for the Ante Bonus?

As far as i know you should have gotten paid on the ante bonus as it is independent from the pair plus...

Quote: blount2000

IMaybe I just don't understand the rules for 3CP, but is this the way the Ante bonus is supposed to work? Or does each casino have its own policy on whether or not you have to be playing the Pair Plus to be eligible for the Ante Bonus?

No, that's not how it's supposed to work. The Ante Bonus is paid for betting the Ante. You're supposed to be paid the bonus even if you lose. Say you have a straight and the delaer has trips, you lose the ante and play bets, but should be paid the bonus.

Each casino can set its own rules, but 3CP is a licensed game, so perhaps they have to follow the manufacturer's rules in this case. I would suggest writtig letters to the casino, the Caesars corporate offices and the makers of 3CP.

Yes, you should have been paid the ante bonus even though you didn't play PairPlus. See Wizard of Odds' Rules. Shuffle Master's short description of the game here doesn't make it clear that the player can win the ante bonus even if he hadn't bet the PairPlus. (Also, can you find the common gambler's spelling error on that page?)

Since almost every player bets PairPlus, some dealers don't even know it's an optional bet. One dealer demanded that I put up money for that bet even though I had already seen my cards. I answered, "but I don't want to make that bet." (I didn't fight too hard because I did have a pairs of deuces.)

Quote: blount2000

I have a question regarding the Ante bonus in 3CP.

I played 3CP for the first time a few months ago at Harrah's in Vegas. I was playing only the Ante bet and not the Pair Plus. I was dealt a straight which beat the dealer's pair, and I was paid for my Ante and my Play bets.

I was expecting to get paid an Ante bonus for getting the straight (they had the Ante Bonus payout on the table), but didn't. I asked the dealer why, and he said that you have to be playing both the Ante bet AND the Pair Plus bet to qualify for the Ante bonus. That seemed strange to me since it is called an Ante Bonus and the Pair Plus has its own pay table.

A floor person happened to be standing very close to my table so I got his attention and asked him about it. He confirmed that you must be playing both Ante & Pair Plus in order to qualify for the Ante Bonus.

Maybe I just don't understand the rules for 3CP, but is this the way the Ante bonus is supposed to work? Or does each casino have its own policy on whether or not you have to be playing the Pair Plus to be eligible for the Ante Bonus?

You got jobbed. I would have pitched a fit, probably not worth it though.

someone got ripped off by two corrupt caesar's employees....quelle surprise

here is an idea. don't go back. write a letter and tell them that you are posting on forums about getting ripped off.
tell everyone you know not to go to caesar properties.

note: many of the posters on here love to talk about how great caesars properties are when they are grubbing for comps.
i have never heard anyone talk about how great the games and paytables are

Quote: WongBo

someone got ripped off by two corrupt caesar's employees....quelle surprise

This is just silly. Assuming that the way the OP told the story is accurate there is exactly 0% chance that the dealer and supervisor denied him his payout because of corruption and you know it. I get that you hate Harrah's but when you let that hate color your vision of the world it just makes you look unfair rather than making Harrah's look bad. It is absolutely inexcusable that these two employees would both not know the rules on the game that they are offering, but for you to confuse ignorance for corruption is completely moronic.

i find it rather impossible to believe that neither employee knew such a basic rule of an extremely popular and widespread game.

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I would have paid the ante bonus

Quote: WongBo

i find it rather impossible to believe that neither employee knew such a basic rule of an extremely popular and widespread game.
if you are going to call people moronic, you might consider changing your signature line first...
ron paul? ru paul has an equal chance as that guy!

I did not call you moronic, I said that you made a moronic claim. From what I can gather you tend to be intelligent but are not open minded on certain issues, and Harrah's is one of them. I am generally a fan of CZR and I have no trouble believing that they would have at least two employees in a 40+ casino chain who misunderstand a rule on a table game. To say that they are conspiring to knowingly cheat a player out of 3 red chips is akin to saying that Dick Cheney ordered the attack on the World Trade Center: It is a wacky way to explain a situation with an obvious explanation. If it could be proved that they were intentionally cheating players not only would their whole company go under but some people would likely face serious criminal charges. You really believe they would risk all this just so that the hold on a 3CP game would increase a quater of a percent? Just admit that you are wrong here.

I do not understand how my politics plays into the situation, but you are right, Ron Paul is not likely to win the nomination. Looks like 4 more years of the status quo.

Thanks for all of the good info. Now I know my initial understanding was correct on how the bonus should be paid.

I realize now that I probably should have raised more of a fuss than I did (even though I was only betting the $5 minimum so we're not talking about big money). I guess I was thrown a bit when the floor person confirmed what the dealer told me.

I was pretty certain (maybe even a bit smug?) that things were fixing to go my way when I called the floor person over, and when they didn't I started thinking I must have misunderstood the rules from the very beginning. So I dropped it. I only played for a little while longer after that and a bonus situation didn't come up again before I left.

At least I will know better for next time.

deleted

Quote: bigfoot66

Looks like 4 more years of the status quo.

Optimist :)

Back on topic, next time ask to see the rules.

At the Excalibur I had to keep reminding the dealer about the bonus. It's common for some dealers to forget to pay it, even if you're playing the Pair+ That same trip I played at Bally's, too, without making the Pair+ or the even worse 6-card bonus bets. I don't recall whether I had an ante bonus in that session, though.

Next time ask for rules and act as though you have never played before. Read them somewhere else and look up the telephone number of gaming. Then go play and if refused the bonus, ask to speak to the gaming table manager. If you do not get satisfaction, write down the name of the highest ranking employee you talked to. Write down the number of the table, time, dealer. etc.
Call GAMING. DON"T GET MAD, GET EVEN !!!

I would blame the dealer and not Harrah's in general. Most of the time when you get a straight or better, and lose, the dealer incorrectly does not pay the Ante bonus, and it doesn't matter which casino. The Pairplus excuse is a new one to me. It just goes to show that the player should not trust the dealer to know his own game, and be prepared to argue when you feel the dealer made an error. Usually the supervisors will know the rules correctly, so don't hesitate to politely ask one for a clarification on the rules. I've done it lots of times.

i admitted my bias against caesars/harrah's when bigfoot called me on it.
i suppose that players who do not play the pair plus are such a small minority of 3CP players,
that this type of misunderstanding is somewhat common.
i still find it inexcusable at a premier strip property on a game they have had for almost twenty years.
this story would make a nice addition to one of the tipping threads...

i agree with the Wizard's suggestion about trying the nice approach.
but be prepared to take it to gaming as buzz suggests!

UPDATE:

I was back in Vegas a week ago and played 3CP again at Harrah's. As before, I was playing only the Ante bet and not the Pair Plus.

I received a straight a few hands in and the dealer paid the Ante bonus without any problems or any mention of having to play the Pair Plus to be eligible. I played again the following night with a different dealer, and once again the Ante bonus was paid correctly whenever it hit.

I was pleased that things went smoothly this time.