New Money$uit 31 2.7% house edge 1.7% element of risk paytable
Poll
 | 11 votes (39.28%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.57%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
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| | 1 vote (3.57%) | ||
| | 15 votes (53.57%) |
28 members have voted
February 26th, 2012 at 1:51:30 PM
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Hi All,
Due to all of the feedback I had gained over the last year from everyone on this site and through live play of my Game Money$uit 31, we have changed the paytables for the game. Everyone who had been involved in the original thread Money$uit 31, I believe will be very happy with the new payouts as many of your suggestions have been addressed!
As a lot of people had requested we dropped the house edge down significantly and made the payouts much better on the lower end as well as incorporating the Money$uit into the payouts a great deal more. You will see that now a 17 is a push, a M$ 17 now pays 1 to 1 and 22 and 23 now pay 2 to 1. Also, a M$ 27 or higher get paid a significant amount more as they are moved into the next pay category... The Demo can be played at Money$uit 31 Game Demo
The new paytable has a House edge (GLI calculated) in terms of the Ante wager of 2.7% and a House edge in terms of the average bet (Also typically referred to as the element of risk) of 1.7%. These numbers can also be calculated by anyone using the spreadsheet that Miplet had posted in the link I had attached in the first paragraph.
I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback on the new low HA payouts and I hope everyone enjoys the game more now than they did prior! The new payouts will be debuting on the floor of the Augustine Casino within the next month. Anyone who lives is in the Coachella area, we will be hosting a fairly large prize pool free tournament for the relaunch of the game in march. I will keep you all updated with the details.
P.S. if anyone who has previously been on my website still sees the old demo upon returning to the site, clear your browser history and cache and the new demo will appear.
Due to all of the feedback I had gained over the last year from everyone on this site and through live play of my Game Money$uit 31, we have changed the paytables for the game. Everyone who had been involved in the original thread Money$uit 31, I believe will be very happy with the new payouts as many of your suggestions have been addressed!
As a lot of people had requested we dropped the house edge down significantly and made the payouts much better on the lower end as well as incorporating the Money$uit into the payouts a great deal more. You will see that now a 17 is a push, a M$ 17 now pays 1 to 1 and 22 and 23 now pay 2 to 1. Also, a M$ 27 or higher get paid a significant amount more as they are moved into the next pay category... The Demo can be played at Money$uit 31 Game Demo
The new paytable has a House edge (GLI calculated) in terms of the Ante wager of 2.7% and a House edge in terms of the average bet (Also typically referred to as the element of risk) of 1.7%. These numbers can also be calculated by anyone using the spreadsheet that Miplet had posted in the link I had attached in the first paragraph.
I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback on the new low HA payouts and I hope everyone enjoys the game more now than they did prior! The new payouts will be debuting on the floor of the Augustine Casino within the next month. Anyone who lives is in the Coachella area, we will be hosting a fairly large prize pool free tournament for the relaunch of the game in march. I will keep you all updated with the details.
P.S. if anyone who has previously been on my website still sees the old demo upon returning to the site, clear your browser history and cache and the new demo will appear.
.
February 26th, 2012 at 2:18:10 PM
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afer reading the instructions twice,
ive played the game about twenty times.
i mean no offense in saying i think it needs more work.
for a game to succeed it needs to be accessible to a large number of people,
a game that can be easy for one player to explain to a new player in a few sentences.
the game lacks the inherent simplicity of 3CP or LIR.
also in those games you have the option of placing a second wager.
in your game you require a second wager (family pot).
i think its a decent enough game
though i personally never play carnival games for money.
ive played the game about twenty times.
i mean no offense in saying i think it needs more work.
for a game to succeed it needs to be accessible to a large number of people,
a game that can be easy for one player to explain to a new player in a few sentences.
the game lacks the inherent simplicity of 3CP or LIR.
also in those games you have the option of placing a second wager.
in your game you require a second wager (family pot).
i think its a decent enough game
though i personally never play carnival games for money.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 26th, 2012 at 2:29:26 PM
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WongBo I'm not offended by your comment. I post on this site for a reason and that's the feedback. As far as your statement that "for a game to succeed it needs to be accessible to a large number of people." The game 31 is a game that has been played all over the world for the last 60 years or so. The following already exists, which if you poll a large number of people as i have done in several casinos you will see that a large number of people grew up playing the game. I think that the family pot is the most attractive part of the game for most people since it offers free odds to players with absolutely no house involvement. This has also been the feedback during live play.
All that aside I appreciate you taking the time to play the demo and say that you at least think its decent. There are several people on here like yourself that dont play any form of carnival game so your response was anticipated, but there are many others that do.
Thank you again for taking the time to play!
All that aside I appreciate you taking the time to play the demo and say that you at least think its decent. There are several people on here like yourself that dont play any form of carnival game so your response was anticipated, but there are many others that do.
Thank you again for taking the time to play!
.
February 26th, 2012 at 2:42:45 PM
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one more thing, if you are interested...
i feel that the push requirement is a little too much.
i lost twenty hands out of twenty.
if people do not get payouts or at least push,
they will not want to or be able to play for long.
if they cant last at the game they are unlikely to recommend it or to play it again.
i feel that the push requirement is a little too much.
i lost twenty hands out of twenty.
if people do not get payouts or at least push,
they will not want to or be able to play for long.
if they cant last at the game they are unlikely to recommend it or to play it again.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 26th, 2012 at 2:43:01 PM
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That's definitely an improvement. There are more playable hands and wins overall.
WongBo:
While it takes a moment to get the concept, it's pretty simple. It's the explanation on the site that's somewhat long-winded.
I'd explain it as "Get suited cards with at least 17 total points. Faces are 10, aces 11. Blind ante is posted and three cards are dealt before placing an equal play wager. One card can be discarded and drawn. The family pot is won by the highest hand whether the play wager was posted, Money$uit hands win ties. "
WongBo:
While it takes a moment to get the concept, it's pretty simple. It's the explanation on the site that's somewhat long-winded.
I'd explain it as "Get suited cards with at least 17 total points. Faces are 10, aces 11. Blind ante is posted and three cards are dealt before placing an equal play wager. One card can be discarded and drawn. The family pot is won by the highest hand whether the play wager was posted, Money$uit hands win ties. "
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
February 26th, 2012 at 2:43:07 PM
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Sorry for me I couldn't at least fathom the basic idea by just looking quickly (i.e. less then three seconds). Your how-to-play page didn't immediately tell me such as your objective is to get closer to {target} than {the dealer}; you receive {n} cards and can {raise, fold, draw, split, double, etc.}. Also a family pot concept, presumably where players play against each other is similar to banking in Pai Gow - many people want to win the casino's money, not other people's - so refuse to play against a player banker. For instance if it was a group of friends, there would be no point in making such a bet.Quote: WongBo...for a game to succeed it needs...inherent simplicity...
This forum is aimed at people who know many casino games (as I do) and sometimes their associated strategies. However the casual player has, on average, less intelligence or willingness to understand complicated games. Most of us probably know Craps' basics and why some bets are better than others - personally speaking, it's a great game. But most people can't be bothered with learning it, even if simpler versions (as we have in the UK) are on offer. That's why Roulette, Baccarat, Blackjack are so popular, 3-card poker has been such a success and Casino War beginning to appear in the UK.
February 26th, 2012 at 2:46:21 PM
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Quote: P90That's definitely an improvement. There are more playable hands and wins overall.
WongBo:
While it takes a moment to get the concept, it's pretty simple. It's the explanation on the site that's somewhat long-winded.
I'd explain it as "Get suited cards with at least 17 total points. Faces are 10, aces 11. Blind ante is posted and three cards are dealt before placing an equal play wager. One card can be discarded and drawn. Totals in Money$uit are better."
That's well within half a minute and easier than 3CP.
basic strategy for 3CP: fold if you do not have Q64. That's nine words.
explain basic strategy to MS31 in nine words
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 26th, 2012 at 2:49:08 PM
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Quote: WongBobasic strategy for 3CP: fold if you do not have Q64. That's nine words.
Do they actually post this on a placard next to the table? That's strategy, not rules.
Basic strategy for blackjack is incredibly complicated compared to any other game, except for VP, and that doesn't stop it from being played.
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February 26th, 2012 at 2:51:39 PM
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how many times have you seen 31 or scat in a casino?
it may be a 'popular' home game but it isnt easy enough for the masses.
i just think it needs to be simpler.
people are not going to understand it as instinctively as BJ or baccarat.
it may be a 'popular' home game but it isnt easy enough for the masses.
i just think it needs to be simpler.
people are not going to understand it as instinctively as BJ or baccarat.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 26th, 2012 at 3:01:13 PM
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Quote: WongBobasic strategy for 3CP: fold if you do not have Q64. That's nine words.
explain basic strategy to MS31 in nine words
Rules: Combine Suited cards to get a 17 or higher = 9 words
Strategy: Play 15+, 7s and A-9 10-10 = 8 words
BTW my How to play was wordy. I changed it. let me know what you think Wong...
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February 26th, 2012 at 3:03:23 PM
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Plus the three line basic strategy is listed under the demo.
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February 26th, 2012 at 3:23:42 PM
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Upon reading the new description, two questions:
1) Does the family pot wager have to be mandatory? It's a free bet for the player, but someone might choose not to make it. Other players' expectation is not really affected.
2) Have you considered picking the Money$uit not randomly, but as the suit of the last winning hand? No effect on anything, but feels a little classier, and adds kind of an explanation to it.
1) Does the family pot wager have to be mandatory? It's a free bet for the player, but someone might choose not to make it. Other players' expectation is not really affected.
2) Have you considered picking the Money$uit not randomly, but as the suit of the last winning hand? No effect on anything, but feels a little classier, and adds kind of an explanation to it.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
February 26th, 2012 at 3:30:47 PM
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Quote: P90Upon reading the new description, two questions:
1) Does the family pot wager have to be mandatory? It's a free bet for the player, but someone might choose not to make it. Other players' expectation is not really affected.
2) Have you considered picking the Money$uit not randomly, but as the suit of the last winning hand? No effect on anything, but feels a little classier, and adds kind of an explanation to it.
The Family pot is Mandatory yet I don't see why it couldn't be eliminated if a casino requested, as it doesn't effect the math at all. I wouldn't make it an optional wager though. I don't feel that would play well.
Also, The random Money$uit will tie into other side wagers in the future once the game is established. I had mentioned the Money$uit wager in another thread...
Is the new How To Play easier and quicker to understand?
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February 26th, 2012 at 3:34:54 PM
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Before it was introduced to a casino, have you ever seen any game in a casino?Quote: WongBohow many times have you seen 31 or scat in a casino?
Personally, I think the learning curve for M$31 is very short. If someone doesn't "get it" in a hand or two, then they probably aren't going to play table games at all.
For the record, there's a difference between getting it and enjoying it. Whether people enjoy it enough to play and make it a successful new game remains to be seen.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 26th, 2012 at 3:38:39 PM
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There's a table game version of Hold 'En that has a required bet for a pot that is a zero edge item. It's mandatory, but, like this Family Pot, it's at the table minimum. I do not see it as a detriment to the game, or that much of an obstacle to cause people to not play the game.Quote: P901) Does the family pot wager have to be mandatory?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 26th, 2012 at 3:39:39 PM
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Yes the new page is much easier to understand, especially as there are already some suit based games. I'm not sure why the game isn't simply using just the best suit you have, presumably this enables a 1 in 4 chance and the pay table. I haven't worked out the strategy but have you considered a basic game: that loses for <17 and pays for 18+, perhaps with bonus for very good hands or all three suited and then introduce a side bet for those lucrative payouts. It would then have a similar mechanism (except the need for drawing) to 3CP. Also, accepting that 33 would be the maximum, have you considered the effect of using multiple decks with a CSM.
February 27th, 2012 at 7:18:44 AM
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Hi Mr$uit31,
Wondering what the new play rate and hit rate is with the new pay tables. If you play the optimal strategy as outlined, what percentage of hands is a player making the play wager and what percentage of total hands are then winning, the hit frequency (ignoring pushes)?
Wondering what the new play rate and hit rate is with the new pay tables. If you play the optimal strategy as outlined, what percentage of hands is a player making the play wager and what percentage of total hands are then winning, the hit frequency (ignoring pushes)?
February 27th, 2012 at 7:58:41 AM
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Maybe I have led a sheltered life, but I have never seen, let alone played, this game on East Coast, Texas, or Colorado.
DON"T LIKE IT.
That being said, you should try a get something about it on the Augustine Casino webpage.
DON"T LIKE IT.
That being said, you should try a get something about it on the Augustine Casino webpage.
February 27th, 2012 at 8:28:22 AM
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P>S> It's the players who will decide the fate of your game, assuming the casino gives you a fair trial.
CONGRATULATIONS ON GETTING IT ONTO THE FLOOR
CONGRATULATIONS ON GETTING IT ONTO THE FLOOR
February 27th, 2012 at 8:59:43 AM
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Quote: ParadigmHi Mr$uit31,
Wondering what the new play rate and hit rate is with the new pay tables. If you play the optimal strategy as outlined, what percentage of hands is a player making the play wager and what percentage of total hands are then winning, the hit frequency (ignoring pushes)?
Paradigm,
I have to get back to you with the exact hit % numbers, as GLI has not outlined those numbers for me. t\To answer your other question, the numbers i do have for you now are:
Out of 22,100 hands players will
fold: 9,445 hands (42%)
stand pat: 859 hands: (4%)
Play and discard: 11796 hands (54%)
As you can see with the new math the fold % is down significantly. It was above 60% with the old tables. The new numbers the player folds %10 less than when playing carribaen stud and 10% more than playing 3 card poker...
.
February 27th, 2012 at 9:03:09 AM
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Quote: buzzpaffMaybe I have led a sheltered life, but I have never seen, let alone played, this game on East Coast, Texas, or Colorado.
DON"T LIKE IT.
That being said, you should try a get something about it on the Augustine Casino webpage.
Buzz may I ask why you dislike it so much? What specifically dont you like about it?
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February 27th, 2012 at 9:08:30 AM
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Mainly the learning curve for someone who has never played the game. That's the same hurdle all new games face.
Sorry to sound so negative, but just giving my honest opinion.
That being said, try not to place too much emphasis on forum members here.
6:5 Bj gets lots of players, yet I believe the only forum posters who have sat at a 6:5 table were either drunk or attracted
to a hot female player sitting there.
Sorry to sound so negative, but just giving my honest opinion.
That being said, try not to place too much emphasis on forum members here.
6:5 Bj gets lots of players, yet I believe the only forum posters who have sat at a 6:5 table were either drunk or attracted
to a hot female player sitting there.
February 27th, 2012 at 9:18:06 AM
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I was just curious about your reasoning. I know most people on here don't mess with carnival games but feedback is feedback. As far as the learning curve statement, as DJ had said earlier, from what we have seen during live play at the augustine... players that had never heard of the game before understood the combining suited cards aspect(the most important rule) within 3 hands.
Thank you for taking the time to play!
Thank you for taking the time to play!
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February 27th, 2012 at 9:20:27 AM
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Assuming you can get them to sit down and try the game. That's the hard part. And try and get something about it on the casino website.
Couldn't hurt.
Couldn't hurt.
February 27th, 2012 at 10:05:01 AM
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I'm not understanding how the decision to play or fold can be made privately. It would seem to me that with the family pot feature, the player to act last would have a significant advantage. Is there a "button" like in poker which determines the order that players make their decisions? To me, if I was playing this game I would always want to sit in the last seat. If everyone folds to me, I can stay in with a much worse hand hoping to simply draw and beat the other players totals. How is this dealt with?
February 27th, 2012 at 10:31:36 AM
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Quote: duckmankillaI'm not understanding how the decision to play or fold can be made privately. It would seem to me that with the family pot feature, the player to act last would have a significant advantage. Is there a "button" like in poker which determines the order that players make their decisions? To me, if I was playing this game I would always want to sit in the last seat. If everyone folds to me, I can stay in with a much worse hand hoping to simply draw and beat the other players totals. How is this dealt with?
Duck,
you can see in the other thread that this had been addressed already. The probability of the everyone folding is very rare. In certain jurisdictions we may employ a button or just add another regular dice to the shacker to determine the first to act, if it is deemed necessary... As of now this isnt something that seems to be an issue, nor has it shown to be a problem during live play...
What are your thoughts on the game in general?
.
February 27th, 2012 at 11:34:30 AM
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I like it and would play if if I saw it at the Casino. I think the payout on the Demo is not paying correcly though. I had a mini royal in the moneysuit and got paid $500 for my $5 bet. The pay table says it should have been 70 -1. I think I got a 31 that paid incorrectly earlier but I wasn't really paying attention.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
February 27th, 2012 at 11:53:22 AM
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Quote: Zcore13I like it and would play if if I saw it at the Casino. I think the payout on the Demo is not paying correcly though. I had a mini royal in the moneysuit and got paid $500 for my $5 bet. The pay table says it should have been 70 -1. I think I got a 31 that paid incorrectly earlier but I wasn't really paying attention.
Thank you for the kind words!
I will have my developer take a look and fix the issue if it is paying incorrectly. Thank you for the update!
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February 27th, 2012 at 3:03:57 PM
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The payout problem was fixed. Thanks again Zcore!
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February 27th, 2012 at 3:24:27 PM
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Like Buzz, I am from the East Coast, unlike Buzz, I have grown up playing 31 (scat) and do not find this game at all hard to play. And most of the people I know also know how to play, and those that don't are taught in less than 5 minutes, including young kids. (Yes, I take the kids money too. Gotta teach em young!) We bend the corners on your dollar bill. When all four corners are bent, you lose your dollar..............
I like the new pay table much better, but I would still avoid the game. It is not the HE that is driving me away, it is the number of hands that don't get played, OR, the number of times I would have to play needing a draw. It is just too high for me. I would think the game would get more play if you took a page out of the penny slots. Get the player involved in 90% of the hands, but just bleed them away.........
Figure out a way to let me play more hands, perhaps losing my ante, but pushing my play bet. One way to do this would be to let me total my cards that aren't suited. If I have a total over 27( or whatever number), then I push my play bet, but lose my ante. If I have less than 24, then I would lose both ante and play. I am sure you could figure this out in such a way that I would get to play 75% of my hands, and still keep the HE as it is. my opinion...
I like the new pay table much better, but I would still avoid the game. It is not the HE that is driving me away, it is the number of hands that don't get played, OR, the number of times I would have to play needing a draw. It is just too high for me. I would think the game would get more play if you took a page out of the penny slots. Get the player involved in 90% of the hands, but just bleed them away.........
Figure out a way to let me play more hands, perhaps losing my ante, but pushing my play bet. One way to do this would be to let me total my cards that aren't suited. If I have a total over 27( or whatever number), then I push my play bet, but lose my ante. If I have less than 24, then I would lose both ante and play. I am sure you could figure this out in such a way that I would get to play 75% of my hands, and still keep the HE as it is. my opinion...
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
February 27th, 2012 at 4:09:10 PM
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Raleigh I appreciate your honest feedback as always, you have been involved in Money$uit discussions for a while now. I had looked into some paytables where i included the 16 as a push with all 17 pushing as well(no M$ 1 to 1). I didn't like what I had to do with the other paypouts (18-24 1 to 1 and drop 28-29 to 4 to 1 etc...), they just weren't quite as good/exciting enough for my taste in a carnival game. If i kept payouts where I thought they should be the HA drops unfeasibly low if not +ev...
Money$uit now has a fold % of 42.7% (10% lower than the fold percentage of Caribbean stud, also about 10% more than TCP). That is following the optimal folding strategy. I typically don't follow optimal strategy... I play 14 or higher, A-8 even as low 9-8. I play a majority of the hands, when the cards aren't awful. I understand what your saying about having to draw to win but I feel its the same as playing a borderline hand in 3 card (Q or K high) or 4 card (low pair) and lose, which happens very often.
I understand that this probably wont change your opinion, but i feel the need to offer my two cents...
As always, Thank you taking the time to get involved!
Money$uit now has a fold % of 42.7% (10% lower than the fold percentage of Caribbean stud, also about 10% more than TCP). That is following the optimal folding strategy. I typically don't follow optimal strategy... I play 14 or higher, A-8 even as low 9-8. I play a majority of the hands, when the cards aren't awful. I understand what your saying about having to draw to win but I feel its the same as playing a borderline hand in 3 card (Q or K high) or 4 card (low pair) and lose, which happens very often.
I understand that this probably wont change your opinion, but i feel the need to offer my two cents...
As always, Thank you taking the time to get involved!
.
February 27th, 2012 at 8:40:32 PM
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I can understand your desire to keep the bigger payout for the top hands, and I agree with you, that lowering those payouts to accommodate more hands would be detrimental to the game in general. Perhaps you have hit the sweet spot with the latest table. Congrats on the installs. May you get many more.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
February 27th, 2012 at 9:10:16 PM
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Quote: mrsuit31Paradigm,
I have to get back to you with the exact hit % numbers, as GLI has not outlined those numbers for me. t\To answer your other question, the numbers i do have for you now are:
Out of 22,100 hands players will
fold: 9,445 hands (42%)
stand pat: 859 hands: (4%)
Play and discard: 11796 hands (54%)
As you can see with the new math the fold % is down significantly. It was above 60% with the old tables. The new numbers the player folds %10 less than when playing carribaen stud and 10% more than playing 3 card poker...
There are also 402 hands that it makes no difference if you fold or play and GLI has you folding those hands. I would play them as it improves your chance at winning the family pot.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
February 28th, 2012 at 9:43:22 AM
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Mip,
That makes sense for the original discrepancy in the numbers... GLI clearly states that they don't take the family pot into account, they merely minimize the edge vs the house..
That makes sense for the original discrepancy in the numbers... GLI clearly states that they don't take the family pot into account, they merely minimize the edge vs the house..
.
February 28th, 2012 at 5:35:31 PM
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Quote: mrsuit31Mip,
That makes sense for the original discrepancy in the numbers... GLI clearly states that they don't take the family pot into account, they merely minimize the edge vs the house..
I consider that a major weakness of the game. If optimal strategy says you should fold your main bet, then playing that optimal strategy will always hurt your EV on the family pot. It reminds me of some of the pai gow side bets where you used to have to play a full house or flush to get the bonus. If one of your bets causes you to decrease your EV in the other bet, I will not play such a game.
February 28th, 2012 at 5:47:02 PM
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Quote: SOOPOOI consider that a major weakness of the game. If optimal strategy says you should fold your main bet, then playing that optimal strategy will always hurt your EV on the family pot. It reminds me of some of the pai gow side bets where you used to have to play a full house or flush to get the bonus. If one of your bets causes you to decrease your EV in the other bet, I will not play such a game.
So you would play if there was no family pot?
.
February 28th, 2012 at 6:03:20 PM
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Quote: mrsuit31So you would play if there was no family pot?
Perhaps. I've played it on your demo site for a while. It seems like fun, but of course it's easy to play with fake money... It 'feels' like it is a relatively 'even' game. I haven't read all of the posts, but another issue I have with the family pot is that I usually am playing with a friend or friends, and although the family pot is a zero sum game, it just wouldn't feel right for me to take my buddies dough.... or donate to them, either...
February 28th, 2012 at 6:21:18 PM
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Quote: SOOPOOPerhaps. I've played it on your demo site for a while. It seems like fun, but of course it's easy to play with fake money... It 'feels' like it is a relatively 'even' game. I haven't read all of the posts, but another issue I have with the family pot is that I usually am playing with a friend or friends, and although the family pot is a zero sum game, it just wouldn't feel right for me to take my buddies dough.... or donate to them, either...
My favorite part of the game is the family pot. I think it would be even more fun to play with friends and take their money talking crap the whole time about how much they suck, but I guess that's just me haha. This is evident when I play hold'em...
Of course you are still entitled to your opinion, and I thank you for saying the game is fun. I think if you give it a little more time the family pot will grow on you...
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February 28th, 2012 at 6:31:40 PM
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Also, you may like Money$uit 31 Stud a little more. That game players are dealt 2 card and after a play decision is made two community cards come out, players use one to complete their hands. The family pot is unaffected by your decisions in that game and everyone gets the cards for the family pot. Also in that version The "Money$uit" wager will debut, where people will be able to (optional wager) wager on what they think the Money$uit will be. Most likely paying 2 to 1. No progressive. The demo should be up on the site within a few weeks or so...
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February 29th, 2012 at 7:18:05 AM
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Quote: mrsuit31My favorite part of the game is the family pot. I think it would be even more fun to play with friends and take their money talking crap the whole time about how much they suck, but I guess that's just me haha. This is evident when I play hold'em...
Of course you are still entitled to your opinion, and I thank you for saying the game is fun. I think if you give it a little more time the family pot will grow on you...
In general I am a Pai Gow poker and tiles player. One of the reasons I like those games is that often new players sit, and are frequently asking for help, advice, etc. It makes it a very social game, which makes it very enjoyable for me. In your game, you have established a 'basic strategy', which if I ever played I would know, and generally use. But it would be unethical for me to know a competitors hands and give them advice, say, to fold, when that advice might help me in the family pot part and hurt them in the family pot part. It just would feel all wrong.
February 29th, 2012 at 7:32:47 AM
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" Also in that version The "Money$uit" wager will debut, where people will be able to (optional wager) wager on what they think the Money$uit will be. Most likely paying 2 to 1."
Really think anybody will take 2 to 1 on a 3 to 1 shot. REALLY
Really think anybody will take 2 to 1 on a 3 to 1 shot. REALLY
February 29th, 2012 at 8:30:03 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOIn general I am a Pai Gow poker and tiles player. One of the reasons I like those games is that often new players sit, and are frequently asking for help, advice, etc. It makes it a very social game, which makes it very enjoyable for me. In your game, you have established a 'basic strategy', which if I ever played I would know, and generally use. But it would be unethical for me to know a competitors hands and give them advice, say, to fold, when that advice might help me in the family pot part and hurt them in the family pot part. It just would feel all wrong.
I understand what you are saying Soo. I am thinking that in stud we may just do away with the family pot so that I can offer a family pot game and a non family pot game (also a game with fewer required wagers). Also, just to note. In mostly all carnival games, seeing others cards is not allowed due to the advantage gained from knowing the other cards... That would also be the case in my game, all advice would need to come from the dealer.
Buzz, I do think that people would play that bet (and if they dont want to, they dont have to its optional). Before informing people I was already coming out with the wager they insisted that I use it in the game. Its a simple wager with 4 outcomes, I feel that most people will love its simplicity. Also, having it pay 2.5 to 1 wouldn't be an hard thing to do...
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February 29th, 2012 at 9:33:16 AM
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Good luck with that. the money wheel has some big payoffs to disguise what a bad bet it is. Most people can count to 4.
People insisted you offer that bet. Come on, I was born at night, but it was not last night.
People insisted you offer that bet. Come on, I was born at night, but it was not last night.
February 29th, 2012 at 10:15:31 AM
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Quote: buzzpaffGood luck with that. the money wheel has some big payoffs to disguise what a bad bet it is. Most people can count to 4.
People insisted you offer that bet. Come on, I was born at night, but it was not last night.
Thanks for the good luck wishes, even though it was sarcasm. As I keep saying I appreciate any feedback that comes my way.
I dont see why your so bent out of shape and hate a game because on an optional side wager that doesn't need to be placed. If it is such an awful bet simply dont play it. The %25 probability of wining 2.5 to one is not all that different than, Any seven in craps paying 4 to 1 with a 16.67% prob of hitting and a 16.67% HA. I dont see them taking that off a craps layout anytime soon... And I'v definitely seen people making that bet... Is it Smart, no, do people win, yes. Isnt playing carnival games about trying to get lucky from time to time?
Also, "the money wheel has some big payoffs to disguise what a bad bet it is" this may be true but people still generally know that the higher pays are bad bets. That being said i see no shortage of people crowded around the wheel playing these bets...
I know what people have told me. I know you have no reason to believe and or trust what i say. But please dont publicly call me a liar and try and damage my credibility when you have absolutely no clue what actually has been said and by whom. I think you can at least respect that. And I assure you that my pants are not on fire...
But again a really do appreciate the feedback you are giving, so dont think i am trying to talk down on or lash out at you. feedback will always help perfect any project which is why I ask...
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February 29th, 2012 at 11:25:04 AM
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To the 8 who voted they don't like it regardless of the payouts who havnt already voiced there opinion... What was your reasoning for voting this way? Do you not play any carnival games at all or do you just not like the game 31 in general?
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February 29th, 2012 at 12:17:04 PM
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Quote: mrsuit31The %25 probability of wining 2.5 to one is not all that different than, Any seven in craps paying 4 to 1 with a 16.67% prob of hitting and a 16.67% HA. I dont see them taking that off a craps layout anytime soon... And I'v definitely seen people making that bet...
The "any 7" bet has a lot of importance in craps. Since it's the 7 everyone dreads on point rolls, people try and hedge their bets when they think a 7 is about to roll. They know it's a bad bet, but they have money riding on points, place and buy bets, so they make it defensively through their teeth.
Someone coming up to a craps table and placing a wager on "Any 7" - this just doesn't happen. Ever. That I know of.
Once again, "Any 7" works because people feel strongly about 7.
Does anyone feel strongly about the next Moneysuit? I don't think so. It has no real effect on the game, since the cards are just as random. And there is no way to "feel it coming", no good or bad shooters, you are just betting on what a little electronic box shows next.
So it's a very bland and prosaic bet. Like wagering in blackjack on whether the next dealer upcard is going to be red or black, except it's not even countable. It may work to a limited extent or not, there's no telling, but it clearly has no potential for becoming a hit like Fire Bet, or Lucky Ladies, or really any popular side bet.
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February 29th, 2012 at 12:23:49 PM
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I've tried this game a few times and have never had more than when I started.
I'm sorry I just can't think of any reason people would get that hooked on this.
I think making the family pot optional would be a great way to start.
Most people hate let it ride, three card and carribean stud because they require multiple bets.
I'm sorry I just can't think of any reason people would get that hooked on this.
I think making the family pot optional would be a great way to start.
Most people hate let it ride, three card and carribean stud because they require multiple bets.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 29th, 2012 at 12:26:53 PM
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P90, Fair enough I can see how the any sevens may not have been the best importance comparison, though i was mainly using it to show probability vs payoffs for an optional wager... As you said it has no real effect on the base game, it is merely just an optional side wager for additional betting options. Based on what you said(which is true) it would make no difference if the wager was there or not, Which is why it will be included it in M$31 Stud.
What is your opinion on hop bets in craps?
What is your opinion on hop bets in craps?
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February 29th, 2012 at 12:28:32 PM
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Quote: WongBoI've tried this game a few times and have never had more than when I started.
I'm sorry I just can't think of any reason people would get that hooked on this.
I think making the family pot optional would be a great way to start.
Most people hate let it ride, three card and carribean stud because they require multiple bets.
Wong i think the statement the most people hate 3 card and let it ride is outragous considering they are two of the most popular carnival games in history (one of which being the most successful ever). If people hate Money$uit 31 as much as they hate 3 card or let it ride i will be a very happy man!
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February 29th, 2012 at 12:40:43 PM
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I know those are successful games but they are still reviled by most gamblers.
I know your goal is to have a game that is successful, gets installs, gets played and lasts.
I don't think you are going to convince any casino that this game would be as popular as even carribean.
I mean no offense, you asked for input, I am just opining.
Without seeing the mathematical analysis of the probabilities, I can't really comment too much more on it.
I know your goal is to have a game that is successful, gets installs, gets played and lasts.
I don't think you are going to convince any casino that this game would be as popular as even carribean.
I mean no offense, you asked for input, I am just opining.
Without seeing the mathematical analysis of the probabilities, I can't really comment too much more on it.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
