Pai gow fortune bet edge with envy payouts on dealer's hand?
Quote: AnnoraxThe Mystique Casino in Dubuque, IA, pays out fortune bonus envy bonuses on the dealer's hands as well as the player's hands. They use paytable 2 on the wizardofodds site (the 2/3/4/5/25/50/150/400/1000/2000/8000 table with $5000 top envy). At a full table with six other hands that can trigger an envy bonus (the other five player hands plus the dealer), does this make a $5 fortune bet +EV? If not, what's the edge with that additional hand thrown in there?
Not an answer, sorry, but an interesting scenario a dealer told me about at Harrah's in Council Bluffs, IA happened that's very related...
A player was banking on a given hand. The banker got a straight flush. He wasn't playing the bonus, but when his hand became the banking hand, Harrah's refused to pay the Envy bonus since he was banker. The dealer correctly pointed out that his hand would not have been enviable, so the banker's hand should be. The dealer is actually researching the situation to press charges against the casino (that's not the right terminology, but he's pretty bold, and I could see him succeeding.)
Thoughts on this, Dan?
Quote: TiltpoulNot an answer, sorry, but an interesting scenario a dealer told me about at Harrah's in Council Bluffs, IA happened that's very related...
A player was banking on a given hand. The banker got a straight flush. He wasn't playing the bonus, but when his hand became the banking hand, Harrah's refused to pay the Envy bonus since he was banker. The dealer correctly pointed out that his hand would not have been enviable, so the banker's hand should be. The dealer is actually researching the situation to press charges against the casino (that's not the right terminology, but he's pretty bold, and I could see him succeeding.)
Thoughts on this, Dan?
Yes:
Envy is ALWAYS payable on any PLAYER hand - regardless of banking.
100% of the time IF in a player's hand - regardless of banking, not banking, - etc.
Players envy other players' hands at ALL times, regardless of banking, if still played by a player.
The dealer or house CANNOT claim "well, it WOULD have been the dealer's hand - had x, y, and z not occurred, and the moon be in Aquarius, etc. - so I am not paying you" - because the straight flush unquestionably WAS A PLAYER'S hand envied by his fellow players.
That is the sole requirement for envy payout, - and it was met.
Casino Gotta pay if they had also taken the players losing Bonus bets. Could another player have said, "Well, I would have gotten a four of a kind if there was no banking this round, - as the start position of the deal had shifted by the same offset? No way. Total BS. Period, end of story.
Gaming has GOT to decide against the casino.
Quote: AnnoraxThe Mystique Casino in Dubuque, IA, pays out fortune bonus envy bonuses on the dealer's hands as well as the player's hands. They use paytable 2 on the wizardofodds site (the 2/3/4/5/25/50/150/400/1000/2000/8000 table with $5000 top envy). At a full table with six other hands that can trigger an envy bonus (the other five player hands plus the dealer), does this make a $5 fortune bet +EV? If not, what's the edge with that additional hand thrown in there?
This PGP side bet info (Envy effect) is answered here.
Quote: PaigowdanThis PGP side bet info (Envy effect) is answered here.
So, the dealer's hand is worth .93%? I guess that makes the EV for a full table plus the dealer about 2.2%
