REVIEW: New dice Scossa and Red Rock.

Scossa is a brand new dice game, currently on display and on field trial at the Red Rock Casino in the Las Vegas area. I had me a look-see today.

I showed up at Red Rock at 11AM with a friend in gaming, and we waited for them to open the table; the shift manager “Loren” was late opening the game because he was reviewing procedures with the dealers. He wanted them to have the game “down pat,” and they pretty much did, not that it’s a hard game to deal. The table opened at 11:15AM, and we played for a good 45 minutes.

I was initially pessimistic about the game as simplistic, but the game played very well. It was like a “small table Roulette,” very intimate and cosy, an eight foot tub manned by two dealers, both very friendly. Players gathered on each four-foot side and tossed dice to the other side, using roulette glass markers to mark the results; payments were paid to you in your own chip colors. (We bought in and took on stacks of colored chips just as in Roulette.)
I rolled first, betting the:
1. Low Field (3,4,5,6) that pays 3:2 at 2.78%
2. the 6 that pays 6:1 at 2.78%
3. the high payout 2 at 34:1 (2.78%) and
4. the 3 at 16:1 (5.56%).
5. I stop playing the triple 7’s multi-roll bet with its 1 in 216 of hitting it for 200:1, I wasn’t going to attrit my money or chase it into a long session to get there.
6. Note that any bet that is listed as 9:2, 7:2, etc, is a prompt to bet two units for the best value pay return. If you bet single chips on such bets, you get some minor breakage by being paid 4:1 and 3:1, respectively.
7. You could play some splits like Roulette: 2 & 7, 3 & 6, 5 & 4, 8 & 11, and 9 & 10, all at 4:1 For a 2.78% edge. You could split-bet hardways, but why? Bet both desired hardway straight up, so what if they’re adjacent. I’d rather bet and win 34:2 than 16:1; you take down 33 instead of 32.

Steve went with loading the hardways straight up (and where the “regular” 2 and 12 overlapped the 2 and 12 picture hardways bets at the same 34:1 payouts; the hard 2 and hard 12 were redundant.) In twenty minutes we generated a player-audience with us, inadvertently acting like shills for a field trial game. When the table was full, everybody had everything covered in their own player chip colors – except for the HUGE strip “Lucky 7 – for the Dealers!” bet. That pretty much remained unused. When people tip-betted (“toked”) the dealers they put the dealers’ bets along side their regular number bets, especially on the “low field” (3,4,5,6) and “high field”(8,9,10,11). I left down $10, and Syteve went from a $60 buy-in to $130.

So, Scossa basically consists of the existing two-dice crap table “prop bets,” (or one-roll center bets on the existing dice tables) - but with a better house edge on its one-roll bets, and a few different options.

On the negative side, Scossa offers no real multi-roll dice play involving many bets in action in a winning or losing journey ride against a seven-out, as in conventional craps. Conventional craps seeks a “Yes or No” result on a many active bets against a standard Seven-out journey as the “juice” of that game that real crap players play for and seek to have. But this doesn’t deny Scossa's own brand of easy-style gambling action. Scossa is all basically one-roll. But that’s fine on its own terms, it works on its own terms, and as an intimate version of roulette with dice. It works as a gambling game.

For New casino players seeking a “no thinking, no strategy, and no journey” type of game similar to Roulette, then this is a pretty good ticket. Visitors just jumped on feeling comfortable about it.

I DO have one serious problem with Scossa, and that is the “tip jar” dealer request bet that is printed on its layout. That’s a real no-no.
The HUGE “Tip the Dealer – Lucky 7 for the dealer” banner on the game can be considered quite a bit of a problem. I, as a dealer, view it as a Grotesque Solicitation that is unacceptable to any professional in the service industry. It is akin to having an open “tip jar” on a casino table game or a “tip me” button on your lapel as a waiter. Let us not go there. This is bad, and virtually unprecedented. For this game to be taken more seriously, may this utterly unnecessary table felt layout accoutrement be lost. A raw and open eye-sore to any casino player and casino dealer. (I don’t know how to put this except to say that if you are working on tips, you neither poke people in the eye for the tips nor do you worry about the tips, - as your fine service will either account for the tips - or you’re just in the wrong profession. People knew how to tip the dealers using other, better bets or just handed in tips, also good.)
This is perhaps the only “black eye” that this game has, because the rest of the game is actually a very fair and decent table game.

I thought of the game “Bet Your Luck,” a small Roulette-like similar to this but using a card count-down to a card range to same effect, also a small and intimate Roulette version.

I wish it luck, and I think it may succeed, and by that I mean double digit installs.
Time will tell.

Thanks for the nice review.

What were the table limits while you were there?
Min and max bets?
Are the chip values $1 or can they be higher as in Roulette?

Off to see the Wizard...

Excellent review Dan!

Did you happen to get a feel for what the other players and dealers thought of the game?

In craps, dealers say "Yo" instead of "Eleven". Do the Scossa dealers do the same thing?


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Let's not forget, the Wiz has a page for a pre-opening review and math: https://wizardofodds.com/games/scossa.html

I played it last night as well, around 8:00. Sorry I missed you. Had a great experience, turning $20 into $100 in about 10 minutes only. My standard bets were the 3 to 6, which pays 3-2, and all hard hard hops (11, 22, 33, 44, 55, and 66) at 34 to 1 each. Of course, all carry a 2.78% house edge.

At one point I hit three hard hops in a row. After the first, I put a $1 bet on both the 11 and 66 for the dealers, because I REFUSE to tip on the "lucky 7 for the dealer." On the next roll one die was clearly a 1, but the other was leaning against the side, with the 1 at a about a 30-degree angle. I was worried the dealer would call it a no roll, but he called it a one, winning for both of us on the hard 2.

To answer the question, they do the chips like in roulette, where each player has his own color. I bought in for $20 for 20 pink chips. I'm not sure what the limits were, I should have noted that. About whether the dealers liked the game, I'm not really sure. It had only opened for the first time a few hours before, and a suit was watching it carefully.

Quote: Wizard

I played it last night as well, around 8:00. Sorry I missed you. Had a great experience, turning $20 into $100 in about 10 minutes only. My standard bets were the 3 to 6, which pays 3-2, and all hard hard hops (11, 22, 33, 44, 55, and 66) at 34 to 1 each. Of course, all carry a 2.78% house edge.

At one point I hit three hard hops in a row. After the first, I put a $1 bet on both the 11 and 66 for the dealers, because I REFUSE to tip on the "lucky 7 for the dealer." On the next roll one die was clearly a 1, but the other was leaning against the side, with the 1 at a about a 30-degree angle. I was worried the dealer would call it a no roll, but he called it a one, winning for both of us on the hard 2.

To answer the question, they do the chips like in roulette, where each player has his own color. I bought in for $20 for 20 pink chips. I'm not sure what the limits were, I should have noted that. About whether the dealers liked the game, I'm not really sure. It had only opened for the first time a few hours before, and a suit was watching it carefully.

A couple of questions:

1. Did it feel like you were rolling the dice more or less when you had them? I don't know about the 2/3/12 thing to pass, especially since a lot of people would bet the 2 and 12. Stinks that you have to pass after a big win.

2. How many times (if any) did the 3 7s in a row hit, and was it being played?


Also good luck Shackleford!

Quote: cclub79

A couple of questions:

1. Did it feel like you were rolling the dice more or less when you had them? I don't know about the 2/3/12 thing to pass, especially since a lot of people would bet the 2 and 12. Stinks that you have to pass after a big win.

2. How many times (if any) did the 3 7s in a row hit, and was it being played?


Also good luck Shackleford!

HE DID IT! Could be an Inq though...

Quote: cclub79

A couple of questions:

1. Did it feel like you were rolling the dice more or less when you had them? I don't know about the 2/3/12 thing to pass, especially since a lot of people would bet the 2 and 12. Stinks that you have to pass after a big win.

2. How many times (if any) did the 3 7s in a row hit, and was it being played?

Also good luck Shackleford!

1. I was certainly throwing the dice, like in a "tub" craps table. However, you don't get the excitement of craps, because everybody's bets are all over the board in Scossa.

2. They hit twice in a row when I was there, but nobody was on the three sevens bet. Based on comments overheard, I think another player was betting that before I arrived, but quit. The next roll was not a 7.

3. Ugh! I forgot to bet on him.

Quote: Wizard

1. I was certainly throwing the dice, like in a "tub" craps table.

Do the dice move to a new shooter after every throw?

Quote: RPToro

Do the dice move to a new shooter after every throw?

"The shooter will roll the dice until he rolls a 2, 3, or 12.
The average rolls per shooter is nine."

From the WoO Scossa page HERE

Is a correction needed at the WoO Scossa page?

"Rules"

"There are a host of bets available. Most of them resolve based on one throw of the dice.

The only exceptions are the hard ways and Triple Sevens bet."

I thought the hardways were also 1 roll bets.
The Triple 7s the only non 1 roll bet.

Table Limits -
I should have mentioned that the limits were $1-$10 only (A $10 hardway pays $340). Probably subject to real change as its a field trial.
The ONLY multi roll bet was the triple 7's, and each chip gets taken if no seven, or receives a lammer saying "ONE," "Two," or "Three" on each consecutive 7, where the "Three" lammer means pay that bet 200x!
Dice get passed to the next shooter on any crap number thrown (2,3, or 12).

Good and informative review Dan.

You mentioned in your original post that there was 2 dealers. Is it because it's a new game on trial, because I thought the creators pitch it as a 1 dealer game?

The game could easily be handled by one veteran Scossa dealer, but that this point in the game's early trial, two dealers manage each side the of the table very well and concurrently, so they sped up the flow of the game. Part of the field trial is procedure using best procedures best for the game.

Quote: Paigowdan

The game could easily be handled by one veteran Scossa dealer, but that this point in the game's early trial, two dealers manage each side the of the table very well and concurrently, so they sped up the flow of the game. Part of the field trial is procedure using best procedures best for the game.

Ah, right, that makes sense.

Quote: Paigowdan

For New casino players seeking a “no thinking, no strategy, and no journey” type of game similar to Roulette, then this is a pretty good ticket. Visitors just jumped on feeling comfortable about it.

Interesting way to put it. I was wondering how it would play, as it is a hybrid between craps and roulette. Looks like it is a fun game to throw a few bucks on to mix things up.

Thanks for the review!

The inventor of the game has been following this thread intently. He says to not be surprised if the felt is replaced to remove the "lucky 7 for the dealer" bet.

Quote: Wizard

The inventor of the game has been following this thread intently. He says to not be surprised if the felt is replaced to remove the "lucky 7 for the dealer" bet.

I think that would be a smart move. Beyond the Lucky 7 for the Dealer, I think the felt looks pretty sharp. The triple 7's dead in the center as well as the scossa symbol at the top give it a nice, clean feel. It is also less intimidating than a craps layout, especially for new players, which has termonology that requires a certain level of understanding (come, pass/don't pass, etc). Any Joe can understand the Scossa layout after a few quick glances.

Beyond that, Scossa has peaked my interest, especially with you all giving it some good feedback. I will be sure to give it a few go-around's next time I am in Vegas.

Quote: Wizard

The inventor of the game has been following this thread intently.

In that case, I have two comments specifically for the inventor:

1 - No need to eavesdrop. Feel free to join the conversation. As you can tell, we're a pretty civilized bunch, and won't beat you up (except for that dang dealer tip bet!)

2 - Can we get a picture of the layout? I'm very confused about the split bets, and think a look at the layout would be helpful. (Don't suggest I stop by the Red Rock for a looksee. It's a far drive from New Jersey...)

Thanks.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

2 - Can we get a picture of the layout? I'm very confused about the split bets, and think a look at the layout would be helpful. (Don't suggest I stop by the Red Rock for a looksee. It's a far drive from New Jersey...)

I wanted to see the same thing. The internet showed me this partial view of the layout. I can't figure out how to strip the image from the webpage, so I'm just posting the link...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

In that case, I have two comments specifically for the inventor:

1 - No need to eavesdrop. Feel free to join the conversation. As you can tell, we're a pretty civilized bunch, and won't beat you up (except for that dang dealer tip bet!)

2 - Can we get a picture of the layout? I'm very confused about the split bets, and think a look at the layout would be helpful. (Don't suggest I stop by the Red Rock for a looksee. It's a far drive from New Jersey...)

Thanks.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/images/scossa3-lar.jpg

[I am assuming the Wizard is fine with a link to his site, let me know if not]

You can see most of it. You bet the splits by placing your chips inbetween the two numbers. IE see the thin line dividing the 4 & 5?

Quote: Wizard

The inventor of the game has been following this thread intently. He says to not be surprised if the felt is replaced to remove the "lucky 7 for the dealer" bet.

I'd be interested to hear the background of the game's development and the story of how it finally got to a field trial...

Both of those are partial views.

I just read the WOO page for this game. I was a bit surprised by

Quote:

Much like craps, no skill is required to play

Granted, technically speaking, craps doesn't require any skill at all. You can throw chips on the table, yell out a number, pick up dice, and roll them. But I think some people might argue that proper betting, or knowing what bets to make, as well as the correct payout odds, does require some, well, maybe not "skill", but at least "knowledge of the game".

I at first wondered if it was meant to be read as "The game is similar to craps in play, but requires no skill to play." Or something similar. But now, I'm not so sure. Anybody?

Quote: konceptum

I just read the WOO page for this game. I was a bit surprised by

Quote:

Much like craps, no skill is required to play

Granted, technically speaking, craps doesn't require any skill at all. You can throw chips on the table, yell out a number, pick up dice, and roll them. But I think some people might argue that proper betting, or knowing what bets to make, as well as the correct payout odds, does require some, well, maybe not "skill", but at least "knowledge of the game".

I at first wondered if it was meant to be read as "The game is similar to craps in play, but requires no skill to play." Or something similar. But now, I'm not so sure. Anybody?

I think he wrote it the way he wanted, and you can't say he is really wrong... but I would vote for your version.

I, too, got a chance to try my hand at the game this past weekend.
However, my plan was to swing for the fences and go for the three “7s.”

I bought in for $20 dollars. ($1 units)
I was betting the 3-6 and 8-11 range bets for two units and one unit on the three 7s.

I hit the Seven on my third try, but failed with another non-seven on the next toss.

On my six toss, I again rolled a Seven, however, this time I rolled another Seven for two consecutive sevens. Only one more for the home run, and as fate would have it, it didn’t happen.

My concept was to use the two range bets to provide free action for the three 7s bet. However, hitting any seven …. wipes out your range bets.
My session ended in a loss.

My next attempt will be to more conservative and see if I can show a profit.

Toss in Italian

Very brief Las Vegas Sun description of the game and mention that it will be on display at trade show.

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: konceptum

I just read the WOO page for this game. I was a bit surprised by

Quote:

Much like craps, no skill is required to play

Granted, technically speaking, craps doesn't require any skill at all. You can throw chips on the table, yell out a number, pick up dice, and roll them. But I think some people might argue that proper betting, or knowing what bets to make, as well as the correct payout odds, does require some, well, maybe not "skill", but at least "knowledge of the game".

I at first wondered if it was meant to be read as "The game is similar to craps in play, but requires no skill to play." Or something similar. But now, I'm not so sure. Anybody?

I think he wrote it the way he wanted, and you can't say he is really wrong... but I would vote for your version.

I Prefer this version :

Scossa™ preserves the excitement, speed of play and table camaraderie of craps while embracing the simplicity of roulette.

Quote: TinhornGambler

I, too, got a chance to try my hand at the game this past weekend.
However, my plan was to swing for the fences and go for the three “7s.”

I bought in for $20 dollars. ($1 units)
I was betting the 3-6 and 8-11 range bets for two units and one unit on the three 7s.

I hit the Seven on my third try, but failed with another non-seven on the next toss.

On my six toss, I again rolled a Seven, however, this time I rolled another Seven for two consecutive sevens. Only one more for the home run, and as fate would have it, it didn’t happen.

My concept was to use the two range bets to provide free action for the three 7s bet. However, hitting any seven …. wipes out your range bets.
My session ended in a loss.

My next attempt will be to more conservative and see if I can show a profit.

Your next attempt is an expected LOSS. What an exciting game. So interesting!

The game was not open on Friday (9/24) all night. The floor said, "we will open when we have enough dealers". I was there till 3 AM Sat, it never opened.

That is unfortunate. Were the BJ and Craps tables full?

Yes, just like any weekend.

Any idea if this is offered anywhere besides Redrock, Northern Nevada perhaps?

Quote: boxman4

Any idea if this is offered anywhere besides Redrock, Northern Nevada perhaps?

The Red Rock removed it, I think sometime in early October.

I know it was there one week then gone the next!

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

I know it was there one week then gone the next!

The Scossa people have promised an exciting new announcement "within the week" about Scossa being placed nearer to or on the Strip. I have no further information.