Hypothetical comp scenario

How do you think most strip casinos figure comps on craps? And I know it varies from place to place. When Im in Vegas I almost always stay at the golden nugget and always play 90% craps, 10% Pai Gow. I ALWAYS play the same system when in Vegas(play at totally different way at local casino because its a $1 table with 10X's odds) Make a $25 P/L bet (with 3,4,5X's odds, but im assuming they will never rate me on odds) then a $30 place bet on the 6 and 8. If the point is a 6,8 I will buy the 4 for $30. Now of course if I hit The 6,8 more then once I will press back and if I hit the 4 I will normally buy the 10 for $30 as well. On a 3 night stay I will play five or six, 4hr sessions. I always make sure to play at least 4 hours at a time as I hear this is the "magic" number they want to see you spend at a table(have no idea if this is true). I normally buy into the craps table at $1500 or so. If I lose that before the 4 hours I walk, If im there for 4hrs Im normally done standing that long and leave as well. Although I have been known to have a 10hr craps session a time or two when im winning big. :)

Like I said I normally stay at the Golden Nugget and always end up getting my room comped and normally charge at least 3 dinners to my room and they end up comped too(retail value about $350). SO....here is the question. Im gong to Vegas in 2 months for a friends bachelor party and they are dead set at staying at Mandalay Bay. And I dont want to stay downtown that far from all my friends so Im gonna stay there too. How do you think I will be rated? Are you only rated on your initial bet? or will the pit boss rate people on their press bets too? My Initial bet is $85 but I could have 200 plus in play not counting free odds bets if the shooter makes a point or two or has a longer roll. Is it really just up to the pit boss and how generous he feels like being when he rates you? I guess my question is if I play 12-16 hours that way over 3 nights (Thur-Sun) do you you think I will get at least ONE night comped?

My fear is....Mandalay is such an "up scale" place me buying into the craps table with $1500 and play at least $85 dollar hands, is like some one at the golden nugget buying into a $5min craps table with $100 bucks and the pit boss will never really look at play and you wont get sh!t for comps.

You should be fine at MB. They are hurting and aren't getting much action these days. Your action should get you some generous room and food comps. If you have any questions, ask the PB how you are being rated at any given time.

I know it sounds stupid...but if you're after comp and they won't rate the odds...
then simply don't play the pass line and JUST play place bets/buy bets (to get rated better)
ie: Place 6/8 and Buy the 4/10.

Quote: TIMSPEED

I know it sounds stupid...but if you're after comp and they won't rate the odds...
then simply don't play the pass line and JUST play place bets/buy bets (to get rated better)
ie: Place 6/8 and Buy the 4/10.

Well im not playing "just to get comps", If that was my goal I would play slots(which I would never do lol). I play the game I like the most(craps) And not paying odds in craps is pointless IMO its the best bet you can make in a casino(short of counting cards). I was just seeing if anyone thought since I have no history with MB if they thought I would get comped my stay with that level of play. And if they rated on my MAX bet, AVERAGE bet, or FIRST bet at the craps table? As I know most casinos will rate average bet. And there are some casinos out there that will rate your odds bets. The M being one of them. But there is no way in hell a strip casino would rate odds bets IMO

No, the Mandalay Bay does not rate the odds bet. I have played there as recently as March 2011.

As far as I can gather, the Mandalay Bay staff will notice you if you are buying in for over $1,000, especially if you are tipping. Do not expect royal treatment like you would receive at a down town casino, but from my experience about 75% of people buy in for about $100 to $200 at the craps table.

They will rate your average bet into the computer after they watch you play for about 5 to 10 minutes. If you watch closely, you can see the pit staff or box man type in your average bet. If you are trying to maximize your comps my suggestion would be to bet slightly large then average when you first get there and throw a couple of bets out for the crew immediately. You can always scale back once you are in the system.

The staff will check their computer from time to time to make sure that everyone in the system is still there and to update the average bets. However, staff is often lazy, so if you already in the system with a slightly higher average bet due to initial play, they might just leave it in there.

With an average bet of under $100 you will probably get a gamber's rate for your room and some food taken off. Depending of course on how long you play.

If you are there for 4 nights and play 4 to 6 hours a day, yes you should get a night free, in my opinion.

Some info to maybe help answer your questions about MB:

-I just came back from Vegas and stayed 2 nights at Mandalay Bay. The two nights were comped up front on an email offer. (I had zero history with MB before this, I think I got it because as was said, MB seems to be hurting right now.)
-I played zero the first night (got in late and headed straight to Cosmo).
-Next day I played almost exclusively craps. Typically buy in $200 at $10 tables though (I sometimes seem to keep peeling $100 like they are nothing, but that is another story). My play was $11 pass, 2X odds, (That is always $10 for me and $1 for dealers...EVERY SHOOTER), place the 6 and 8 for $12. I go up $18, 24, 30, 42, 60, 90, 120, 180, etc as 6 and 8 hit. I will from time to time place the 5 and/or 9, or buy the 4 and/or 10 if the shooter is on a roll or I am up.

-I put in about 4 hours in afternoon (+$200 thankyou very much!!), and asked about "comped dinner"? I guess I earned $46 in "Express comps" which are like points I can just use at restaurant. Other comps, pit boss said charge to room and have host look at end. Ate at Wolfgang Puck's had a $55 meal, charged to my room.
-I put in another 3 hours at night (+$350 thankyou very much!!)

-I asked pit boss about average bet, they had me for $95. Since my starting bet was $23 ($11 + $12 if point is 6,8) or $35 ($11 + $24 if 4,5,9,10), they most definitely were taking into account my pressing. But it must have been an average not just taking my MAX bet since at times I had $600+ on the table.
-Was $95 fair?? I don't know. Was it better since I had dealer's on line for every shooter whether I win or lose? I don't know. just wanted to toss out numbers for you to get some feel.

-On checkout next day I stopped at player's club and asked about comps. Told the way it works is this: Your play first has to pay off the room. Then they would look at food. (They called this "primary comps"). And if that didn't cover everything, then I could use the "express comps" toward the remaining.

-Room was comped up front as mentioned so I don't know what "rate" they billed it at, but was told I had enough "primary comps" to cover that, and still enough left to pick up the $55 dinner. Did I have enough to cover another meal?? I don't know. But I did get to keep all $93 in express comps which will be good for another trip (and good at any MGM/Mirage property)

So that is my MB story. As mentioned, I think I got the room offer as they were trying to drum up business. Maybe the host saw I didn't run up a bunch of charges so picking up one dinner was a good will gesture to try and reel in a new customer (recall zero play before), or maybe i really did have enough in primary comps. The express comps are pretty cut and dried in that they can't hide those numbers (they are available at kiosks and on-line).

You seem to buy in higher than me and play higher than me, so I could only hope you might come out better than me on rating and comps.

Quote: chevy

Some info to maybe help answer your questions about MB:

-I just came back from Vegas and stayed 2 nights at Mandalay Bay. The two nights were comped up front on an email offer. (I had zero history with MB before this, I think I got it because as was said, MB seems to be hurting right now.)
-I played zero the first night (got in late and headed straight to Cosmo).
-Next day I played almost exclusively craps. Typically buy in $200 at $10 tables though (I sometimes seem to keep peeling $100 like they are nothing, but that is another story). My play was $11 pass, 2X odds, (That is always $10 for me and $1 for dealers...EVERY SHOOTER), place the 6 and 8 for $12. I go up $18, 24, 30, 42, 60, 90, 120, 180, etc as 6 and 8 hit. I will from time to time place the 5 and/or 9, or buy the 4 and/or 10 if the shooter is on a roll or I am up.

-I put in about 4 hours in afternoon (+$200 thankyou very much!!), and asked about "comped dinner"? I guess I earned $46 in "Express comps" which are like points I can just use at restaurant. Other comps, pit boss said charge to room and have host look at end. Ate at Wolfgang Puck's had a $55 meal, charged to my room.
-I put in another 3 hours at night (+$350 thankyou very much!!)

-I asked pit boss about average bet, they had me for $95. Since my starting bet was $23 ($11 + $12 if point is 6,8) or $35 ($11 + $24 if 4,5,9,10), they most definitely were taking into account my pressing. But it must have been an average not just taking my MAX bet since at times I had $600+ on the table.
-Was $95 fair?? I don't know. Was it better since I had dealer's on line for every shooter whether I win or lose? I don't know. just wanted to toss out numbers for you to get some feel.

-On checkout next day I stopped at player's club and asked about comps. Told the way it works is this: Your play first has to pay off the room. Then they would look at food. (They called this "primary comps"). And if that didn't cover everything, then I could use the "express comps" toward the remaining.

-Room was comped up front as mentioned so I don't know what "rate" they billed it at, but was told I had enough "primary comps" to cover that, and still enough left to pick up the $55 dinner. Did I have enough to cover another meal?? I don't know. But I did get to keep all $93 in express comps which will be good for another trip (and good at any MGM/Mirage property)

So that is my MB story. As mentioned, I think I got the room offer as they were trying to drum up business. Maybe the host saw I didn't run up a bunch of charges so picking up one dinner was a good will gesture to try and reel in a new customer (recall zero play before), or maybe i really did have enough in primary comps. The express comps are pretty cut and dried in that they can't hide those numbers (they are available at kiosks and on-line).

You seem to buy in higher than me and play higher than me, so I could only hope you might come out better than me on rating and comps.

Thanks for the info man, good post! I hope I end up getting comped as well as you! But I fear I wont LOL, As it seems Like I get screwed in comps at every casino I have no history with. And that goes double for casinos I have no history with on the strip! But maybe this trip will be different I can only hope :)

You need to start playing at Terrible's where I get my room and food comped for $.25 video poker :)

Quote: vert1276

there is no way in hell a strip casino would rate odds bets IMO

When asked, dealers and floor supervisors at Bally's and Paris have told me in no uncertain terms that odds bets are rated. Try asking where you're playing. If they demur or otherwise won't answer directly, then it's most likely they don't rate odds bets.

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Quote: gofaster87

No offense Teddy, but you couldn't pay me to stay at that place.

Is that because you have unlimited wealth or because you live a monk's existence and shun materialistic ideals.

When it comes to comps there are three basic options:
1. Increase your play to get the comps you want at your chosen casino
2. Take your normal play to a casino that will comp you for it
3. Forget the comps and pay for your own dang buffet

.....

Quote: SanchoPanza

When asked, dealers and floor supervisors at Bally's and Paris have told me in no uncertain terms that odds bets are rated. Try asking where you're playing. If they demur or otherwise won't answer directly, then it's most likely they don't rate odds bets.

I have always wondered about places that will "rate the odds". That is only useful if their comp rate is the same as a place that does not rate your odds. If they rate your odds thus giving you a larger bet, but then turn around and use a lower house edge in the calculation of comps, isn't it just a wash for the player? On the other hand the casino gets the free self-promotion value of being able to say "We rate your odds bet".

Since it seems they never really tell you ultimately how they calculate comps, how do I know if I really benefit from it?

Quote: gofaster87

i just don't like the atmosphere

There are many places I don't like to go, but you could still pay me to go there. For enough, I'd walk right into the middle of a Al Queda terrorist camp wearing a t-shirt with the dead picture of dead Osama bin Laden on it.

Quote: chevy

I have always wondered about places that will "rate the odds". That is only useful if their comp rate is the same as a place that does not rate your odds. If they rate your odds thus giving you a larger bet, but then turn around and use a lower house edge in the calculation of comps, isn't it just a wash for the player? On the other hand the casino gets the free self-promotion value of being able to say "We rate your odds bet".

Since it seems they never really tell you ultimately how they calculate comps, how do I know if I really benefit from it?

Bingo- Bally's and Paris are both Harrahs (Caesars) and as many have said here they are tight with comps. I believe it was Cosmopolitan, but maybe Aria, that gave out a brochure that defined how much certain play was worth. My son read it to me and it was, in my opinion, quite a bit of action to merit the comps listed. At the Aria the pit boss stated, when my son gave them his shiny new Player's card, that they do not rate any table game action at less than $25.

.....

Quote: SOOPOO

At the Aria the pit boss stated, when my son gave them his shiny new Player's card, that they do not rate any table game action at less than $25.

Was that including odds? Don't bettors are particularly interested in that aspect.

Quote: gofaster87

Mgm properties have only rated at $25 and above for a quite a few years now. Excalibur may be an exception and Circus Circus is no longer the same players club anyhow.

This brings up an interesting question - Which do you view as the "better" scenario? Rating only at mid-level table play ($25 and higher) like M-life, or taking cards at most any level with CET (I think $10 was the lowest I've been rated at), and dealing with the pitiful comp rate (as evidenced by the Wizard's Harrah's review) of 2-6% of theo? My own experience as a flea drives me towards CET, but I usually save my bankroll so I can get some rated play at MGM.

-Bill

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I forgot to add that New york, Luxor and Excalibur are a little more forgiving on the comps as seen when my friends have stayed there.

Quote: gofaster87

Really depends on what you're looking to get out of your trip. If the upscale MGM properties(Bellagio, MGM, Mirage) are more to your liking than save your bankroll for those and try to stay only during the week when rates are cheaper and the comps will cover more. Mlife is pretty pitiful though and playing at just the $25 level wont get you much. If you have established play they will send you decent offers(discounted rooms or free rooms during off peak times.)

I never play for comps, so the MGM play is usually so I can get casino rate at the properties, since it is a little less than the promo email rates. Thanks for the insight into some of the levels at MGM, I've always been curious. Right now, I haven't played at a CET store in over 15 mos, so the comp offers start to show up on the website again, trying to lure me back - too bad the airfare and schedule with the wife's work are cost prohibitive (only weekends from the East Coast). My last trip we stayed half downtown (MSS) and half strip, and even my wife remarked how quick the money went once we hit the strip.

-B

Quote: vert1276

How do you think most strip casinos figure comps on craps? And I know it varies from place to place. When Im in Vegas I almost always stay at the golden nugget and always play 90% craps, 10% Pai Gow. I ALWAYS play the same system when in Vegas(play at totally different way at local casino because its a $1 table with 10X's odds) Make a $25 P/L bet (with 3,4,5X's odds, but im assuming they will never rate me on odds) then a $30 place bet on the 6 and 8. If the point is a 6,8 I will buy the 4 for $30. Now of course if I hit The 6,8 more then once I will press back and if I hit the 4 I will normally buy the 10 for $30 as well. On a 3 night stay I will play five or six, 4hr sessions. I always make sure to play at least 4 hours at a time as I hear this is the "magic" number they want to see you spend at a table(have no idea if this is true). I normally buy into the craps table at $1500 or so. If I lose that before the 4 hours I walk, If im there for 4hrs Im normally done standing that long and leave as well. Although I have been known to have a 10hr craps session a time or two when im winning big. :)

Like I said I normally stay at the Golden Nugget and always end up getting my room comped and normally charge at least 3 dinners to my room and they end up comped too(retail value about $350). SO....here is the question. Im gong to Vegas in 2 months for a friends bachelor party and they are dead set at staying at Mandalay Bay. And I dont want to stay downtown that far from all my friends so Im gonna stay there too. How do you think I will be rated? Are you only rated on your initial bet? or will the pit boss rate people on their press bets too? My Initial bet is $85 but I could have 200 plus in play not counting free odds bets if the shooter makes a point or two or has a longer roll. Is it really just up to the pit boss and how generous he feels like being when he rates you? I guess my question is if I play 12-16 hours that way over 3 nights (Thur-Sun) do you you think I will get at least ONE night comped?

My fear is....Mandalay is such an "up scale" place me buying into the craps table with $1500 and play at least $85 dollar hands, is like some one at the golden nugget buying into a $5min craps table with $100 bucks and the pit boss will never really look at play and you wont get sh!t for comps.

SO....Here is what happened I went to Vegas last weekend. I know in my OP I said I was going in 2 months but it was about 5 weeks ....I'm always so bad with dates LOL. First of all let me just say I never asked the pit boss what they were rating me at and if they rated odds on the craps table or not. I always feel uncomfortable asking the pit boss these kinda things for some reason, I don't know why. To me I think im gonna get what im gonna get, asking changes nothing so why annoy the guy I figure LOL! But anyways wasn't to concerned about the comps I was gonna get. Was just going to have fun with friends for buddy's bachelor party!

So when I booked at MD the rate was $130 Thursday, $170 Friday and $230 Saturday. for a total of $530 plus tax and fee's. I booked through MD's web site. I got in about 7PM Thursday Played craps for about 4 hours. Betting $25 P/L with 3-4-5X's odds. And $60 is place or buy bets. Just like how I described in the OP. So including odds like $185 to $245 when pressing back a little on place and buy bets on the table at a time. Bought in each time for 2K (wired down 15K for the 3 day weekend adventure). On Friday I played about 6 hours of craps the same way. And about 2 hours of $50 a hand BJ. Saturday Played about 5 hours of craps same betting as before. About 2 hours of BJ at $100 a hand and about 2 hours of Pai Gow at $100 a hand. On Sunday didn't play much my flight left at 3:25pm. Played about 2 hours of craps same betting as before and maybe a half an hour of BJ and $100 a hand.

Ok so I had $530 in room rates. And I bought dinner for everyone one night on the room card. Tab was $480(tipped $75 in cash). Didn't spend any more money on meals as everyone kinda just took turns picking up meals for the group. So my Total was about
$1040 at check out(with taxes and fees). I asked if I had any comps to apply to my bill. A host came over(very nice guy) and said they were going to comp my whole bill....LOL this blew me away! I was thinking at best they would pick up maybe $300 of it. The host was really cool..gave me his card and said he would love to get my business. BLAH BLAH BLAH just the normal host stuff you get everywhere. I told Him I normally stay at the Golden Nugget and he said he would "take care of me" if I wanted to make the switch LOL. BLAH BLAH BLAH! :). Vegas must be hard up for gaming right now or something LOL Im just a small fish and they treated me like gold LOL I didn't even lose that much. Like I said I wired down 15K and they wired back 11K and I had about $300 in cash on me when I left. So I lost like $3700 gambling. CRAZY!!!! What do you guys think?

Wow, that is awesome! That is a very generous comp. You played right at the "sweet spot" that casino hosts like to see -- mostly green and black chips. I think you just about broke even -- your expected loss was probably right around $1,000 or so. Mandalay Bay has always been pretty palmy with comps for good players.

Great story, and great comps. But...

Quote: vert1276

(tipped $75 in cash).

I think you know what I'm gonna say about that...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Great story, and great comps. But...I think you know what I'm gonna say about that...

What? To small?

They'd have comped it if you charged it to the room as well?

Quote: vert1276

So my Total was about $1040 at check out(with taxes and fees). I asked if I had any comps to apply to my bill. A host came over(very nice guy) and said they were going to comp my whole bill....LOL this blew me away!

Vegas must be hard up for gaming right now or something LOL Im just a small fish and they treated me like gold

So I lost like $3700 gambling. CRAZY!!!! What do you guys think?

Well, you lost $3700, so of course they're going to comp you...believe me, if it'd of swung the other way (you WON $3700) I can bet they'd have a hard time comping ANYTHING at all.

Quote: TIMSPEED

Well, you lost $3700, so of course they're going to comp you...believe me, if it'd of swung the other way (you WON $3700) I can bet they'd have a hard time comping ANYTHING at all.

Thats not true at all. Sometimes you get a little better comps at the desecration of a host if you have had a really bad run. But comps are calculated by your rate of play and have nothing to do with whether you win or lose.

Quote: vert1276

Sometimes you get a little better comps at the desecration of a host if you have had a really bad run.

Gee, I've heard Vegas called Sin City, but I didn't think people took it so literally! :P

Quote: Nareed

Gee, I've heard Vegas called Sin City, but I didn't think people took it so literally! :P

LOL that was a funny typo on my part :)

*discretion

Quote: vert1276

LOL that was a funny typo on my part :)

*discretion

It's unusual for a typo to make sense and work in context.

ya normally it never works that way when your auto spell check makes something work like that LOL.

Quote: gofaster87

Mgm properties have only rated at $25 and above for a quite a few years now. Excalibur may be an exception and Circus Circus is no longer the same players club anyhow.

At Monte Carlo last weekend, pit boss told us "you have to bet at least $15 to be rated." So, add that to your list of places that will comp below the $25 level