Free Odds in Craps

One thing for sure is I'm pretty sure I would tire of Craps without being able to take the rollercoaster ride on the variance coming from taking the odds.

I just really have to wonder how this business of "free odds" ever came about anyway? Did other table games ever have them?

The free odds I think is a way to give you a better value than the place bets while maintaining a house advantage. I don't think there's any other game that allows free odds unless you call doubling in blackjack a "free odd".

I've always thought as the odds as a "loss leader" of sorts -- a mechanism in which to attract betters to the table. The thing about it though is that you have to make a pass/come don't pass/don't come bet to get the odds, so your expected loss per hour will not be any lower even if you take full odds (in the long run anyway).

Quote: boymimbo

The free odds I think is a way to give you a better value than the place bets ...

Basically you are saying there was an impulse to give better value [than place bets, maybe someone else guesses proposition bets] but for what reason? To show some crocodile tears?

I read up a bit online on history of craps, but havent seen a hint as to how free odds got started.

Well, it is a way for casinos to compete with each other. And I've never known a vendor of any product to do poorly if he uses the term "free" in the description of his product or its features.

A casino has limited space around its table and if variance is the tool that will let them maximize that space then free odds is the manner in which they allow variance to work its way thru the bettor's buy-in at a faster rate.

I know that in a captive market such as a cruise ship's extended voyage, the odds are likely to be no more than 2x, but in Vegas with casinos in walking distance of each other the odds are likely to be more attractive. So it is a bit of a market driven feature.

I think its like Benny Binion sweeping the peanuts and sawdust off the floor, putting down a carpet and offering free drinks. It changed the game and it forced other casinos to follow suit.

In 'private' craps, i.e. as played in back alleys up against a wall, bets amongst players on the point number is a very common bet, after the standard center bet (i.e. fading the shooter). According to Scarne on Dice (FWIW!), in an early form of casino craps (usually illegal) called 'Open' or 'Money' craps players were permitted to continue to do this even though the house banked the center bets (Pass / don't pass) and the off-number bets (today called place bets). That is, even though the players bet against the house on the pass line, they could, after the point was established, bet on that point number amongst each other. (They could not bet the other off-numbers amongst each other, only the current point). For example, the point is 4, I could bet with my neighbor that the 4 'does' and take 2:1 odds on the bet. It seems ~plausible~ that when the modern 'bank' craps evolved, this point number betting turned into the free odds bet.

Quote: DrEntropy

... It seems ~plausible~ that when the modern 'bank' craps evolved, this point number betting turned into the free odds bet.

Doc, makes sense, and backed up by some knowledge. Still a guess, but I have to give that quite a bit of weight.

From my sketchy knowledge, I seem to recall that free odds were started by a strip casino -- can't remember which one, but I'm leaning Sahara/Riveria/Dunes or something of that ilk. Once they started, other casinos started "upping the bet" on how many odds you could take and things got out of control. Eventually, it settled down to the standard 3x4x5x we know today and odds are available at every craps table in the country.

You could probably fill out more details through googling.

Around 1813, Bernard de Mandeville of New Orleans took the game of hazard, simplified it, and transformed the game into the first version of craps. His adaptation of Hazard traveled up the Mississippi River on steamboats, spreading throughout the United States. Mandeville's craps had one major flaw; the game was vulnerable to the use of fixed dice due to its betting rules. John H. Winn, a dice maker and originator of the variation known as "Bank Craps", fixed the problem by introducing the possibility for players to bet 'right' or 'wrong' in the layout of the craps table, including a space for 'Don't Pass' bets. His adjustments revolutionized the game, eliminating the usefulness of fixed dice and making it possible for players to bet for or against the roller. Bank Craps was very close to the game we still play today..

In the game of Hazard, bets are between the caster and the bank (the setter), which may be the remaining players acting as a group after the first throw, the caster (and others, in side bets) may wager an additional sum that the chance will come before the main. These bets are made at odds determined by the relative proportions of the main and the chance.

The "Free Odds" are a variation of the additional wagers that would be made after one established his "Chance" and "Main" numbers.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazard_%28game%29

"Free odds" seems like a relatively low risk way to entice gamblers. They still have their "risk of ruin" which goes up considerably for most people if they take maximum free odds. From what I've read the odds were tightly controlled at one point and 2X was considered the norm.
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I wonder how many people drive out to the Eastside Cannery and play the 100X odds with $5 minimum bets. I get the feeling that the gamblers that have the money to throw $500 a roll would rather be comped to death at the Paiza club in the Venetian.
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Guys who have worked at Binion's for decades tell me there used to be a type of gambler who would belly up to the Snack Bar and eat red beans and rice, and then roll up to the tables and throw down tens of thousands of dollars. When Benny ran the place he used to keep $5million to cover the normal house, and $25 million to cover the high rollers. Sometimes he would drive a few million down to Ceasars to give them a loan for a few days if they were running low. He would say, big casino, small vault; small casino, big vault.