soulhunt79
Joined: Oct 8, 2010
• Posts: 207
March 13th, 2011 at 1:02:22 AM permalink
Ok, this is way outside of normal play. This situation has happened twice to me. Basically the dealer checks for blackjack, red light goes on, dealer flips over the cards, and it isn't blackjack.

In both cases it happened to be 20. I don't know if this would always occur if it a 15 could happen. I assume something is happening for the red light to error like it did.

Now, in both cases the pit boss basically just said to play out the hand knowing the dealer had 20. My question to any math gurus out there. Should I surrender on more hands other than a 15/16?
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
• Posts: 7895
March 13th, 2011 at 1:55:48 AM permalink
Quote: soulhunt79

. My question to any math gurus out there. Should I surrender on more hands other than a 15/16?

You surrender when the Expected Value for all options is below 50%. See the Wizard of Odds for when that occurs for a variety of games including non standard variants of blackjack like "blackjack switch". There are times (like single deck game) where you surrender with double 7's.
ChesterDog
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
• Posts: 1026
March 13th, 2011 at 3:59:48 AM permalink
Here is the Wizard's blackjack strategy for when the dealer accidentally exposes the hole card. Surrender is not covered on that page, but using the infinite-deck model to look for hands with EV worse than -50%, I found this surrender strategy vs dealer's totals:

dealer=20: surrender 4-9, hard 12-19, and soft 18-19
dealer=19: surrender hard 15-18, but split a pair of 9's
dealer=11: surrender hard 13-16
dealer=10: surrender hard 14-16
dealer=soft 12: surrender 16 (except a pair of 8's) if the dealer stands on soft 17
dwheatley
Joined: Nov 16, 2009
• Posts: 1246
March 13th, 2011 at 4:01:43 AM permalink
The OP was wondering if he should surrender once he knows the dealer's down card. This is the simple strategy if you know the down card: WOO.

Unfortunately, that table doesn't have surrender as an option. You need an EV table for your hands against any dealer total, not just the first card. The tables exist in books, and I'm sure some people on this site, including the wizard, have generated the tables at some point.

EDIT: I got simulposted
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
LVJackal
Joined: Jun 1, 2010
• Posts: 88
March 13th, 2011 at 4:18:29 AM permalink
The red light error is due to the dealer pushing the wrong button. There are two buttons, one with an Ace up and one with a Ten up-card. If he/she presses the Ace it checks to see if there is a Ten underneath and if yes will flash red. Another option would be to request the hand be called dead as a result of the error. Quite a bit more valuable than Surrender.
soulhunt79
Joined: Oct 8, 2010
• Posts: 207
March 13th, 2011 at 8:27:49 PM permalink
Quote: LVJackal

The red light error is due to the dealer pushing the wrong button. There are two buttons, one with an Ace up and one with a Ten up-card. If he/she presses the Ace it checks to see if there is a Ten underneath and if yes will flash red. Another option would be to request the hand be called dead as a result of the error. Quite a bit more valuable than Surrender.

Don't most new tables not even have a button? I know the situation you are referring to, but I'm trying to think back on the time where I saw a dealer actually press a button.

Thanks for the info above though. I kindof expected 12->19 to be surrender. Just wasn't sure what do do on a 10/11 or lower. Not like I'm expecting it to happen, but I'm kindof hoping to be able to surrender when I have a hard 6. :)
soulhunt79
Joined: Oct 8, 2010
• Posts: 207
March 13th, 2011 at 8:30:07 PM permalink
FWIW, one of these times was at the Mirage. I can't remember where the other one was. Maybe there is just a button I'm not seeing n the table, but I've always assumed aces are marked differently than 10s.
PGBuster
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
• Posts: 101
March 20th, 2011 at 7:28:11 AM permalink
Quote: LVJackal

Another option would be to request the hand be called dead as a result of the error.

Ha! Has anyone ever seen this work? Why should you get a "dead hand" because you now see the dealer has 20? Would you request the hand be called "dead" if the dealer had a 16? I suspect the answer to that is "no".
benbakdoff
Joined: Jul 13, 2010