Need Clarification on Three Card Poker Ask the Wizard posts
February 5th, 2011 at 12:37:33 PM
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The following post states if the player never makes a PLAY bet for the dealer the HA is 10.11%.
I deal 3 Card Poker and I like to play my tip bets on the ante. Will I win more money for myself on the ante or should I be going for the long shot on the pairs plus bet? Thanks! – Tim from Deadwood
If you can trust the player to make the raise bet when he raises his own bet then you should put the tip on the ante. However, if the player will never make the raise bet for you, then the tip would carry a 10.11% house edge, making the Pairplus the much better bet. October 4, 2006
This next one confuses me. How can this result in a 26% "dealer" advantage?
Three Card Poker toking: If a player tokes on the ANTE bet, but does not toke on the dealer's play bet, then the toke bet is technically "surrendered," - just as if the player had refused to make his own PLAY bet to play out the hand, technically. However, most dealers ignore the absence of a matching PLAY dealer's bet, and are loath to petition a generous player for fear of appearing selfish, so just pay the ANTE dealer's bet. Of course, the PLAYER must ALWAYS make a PLAY bet to match his ANTE bet if he wants to play out his Three Card Poker hand. Is there an unfair dealer's toke edge to this practice, or is it similar to surrendering after double down for less? I think it's unimportant, as since the player's hand is active, then the toke is active, and the risk versus reward are simply cut in half for both the dealer and the house, - no harm done. The Wizard's view would be GREATLY appreciated by this dealer. Regards, Dan from Las Vegas
You're right. If the player makes an ante bet for the dealer then he doesn't seem required to match it with a raise bet if he raises his own bet. The optimal strategy on the tip is to raise with K/Q/10 or better. To keep it simple, this is almost the same as ace high. Anything less and the raise portion of the tip is a bad bet. Following this strategy will result in an advantage of 26.09% on the combined tip bets. January 18, 2007
I deal 3 Card Poker and I like to play my tip bets on the ante. Will I win more money for myself on the ante or should I be going for the long shot on the pairs plus bet? Thanks! – Tim from Deadwood
If you can trust the player to make the raise bet when he raises his own bet then you should put the tip on the ante. However, if the player will never make the raise bet for you, then the tip would carry a 10.11% house edge, making the Pairplus the much better bet. October 4, 2006
This next one confuses me. How can this result in a 26% "dealer" advantage?
Three Card Poker toking: If a player tokes on the ANTE bet, but does not toke on the dealer's play bet, then the toke bet is technically "surrendered," - just as if the player had refused to make his own PLAY bet to play out the hand, technically. However, most dealers ignore the absence of a matching PLAY dealer's bet, and are loath to petition a generous player for fear of appearing selfish, so just pay the ANTE dealer's bet. Of course, the PLAYER must ALWAYS make a PLAY bet to match his ANTE bet if he wants to play out his Three Card Poker hand. Is there an unfair dealer's toke edge to this practice, or is it similar to surrendering after double down for less? I think it's unimportant, as since the player's hand is active, then the toke is active, and the risk versus reward are simply cut in half for both the dealer and the house, - no harm done. The Wizard's view would be GREATLY appreciated by this dealer. Regards, Dan from Las Vegas
You're right. If the player makes an ante bet for the dealer then he doesn't seem required to match it with a raise bet if he raises his own bet. The optimal strategy on the tip is to raise with K/Q/10 or better. To keep it simple, this is almost the same as ace high. Anything less and the raise portion of the tip is a bad bet. Following this strategy will result in an advantage of 26.09% on the combined tip bets. January 18, 2007
Don't get me started on House Advantage vs. Hold Percentage!
February 5th, 2011 at 12:44:28 PM
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I guess I understand your questions
But I am just too lazy to answer them.
But I am just too lazy to answer them.
winning streaks come and go, losing streak never ends.
February 5th, 2011 at 1:19:20 PM
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Let's say the player places a $1 toke bet on the ante.
The first Q/A states that if the player never places the $1 PLAY bet the dealer's toke bet has a 10.11% HA.
The second Q/A seems to say that if the dealer was able to coach the player whether or not to place the $1 PLAY bet for the dealer it would result in a 26.06% "dealer" advantage if the cited strategy was used.
How can there be such a drastic change in the HA with just this change in strategy?
That would also IMPLY that if a player were able to do the following they would be playing at a 26.06% advantage.
Place one unit on the ante every hand. If you get a Q63 or worse fold. If you get a Q64 - KQ9 just let the ante play but don't make the PLAY bet (I understand this is not allowed). If you get KQ10 or better make the PLAY bet. I must be missing something. Please clarify.
The first Q/A states that if the player never places the $1 PLAY bet the dealer's toke bet has a 10.11% HA.
The second Q/A seems to say that if the dealer was able to coach the player whether or not to place the $1 PLAY bet for the dealer it would result in a 26.06% "dealer" advantage if the cited strategy was used.
How can there be such a drastic change in the HA with just this change in strategy?
That would also IMPLY that if a player were able to do the following they would be playing at a 26.06% advantage.
Place one unit on the ante every hand. If you get a Q63 or worse fold. If you get a Q64 - KQ9 just let the ante play but don't make the PLAY bet (I understand this is not allowed). If you get KQ10 or better make the PLAY bet. I must be missing something. Please clarify.
Don't get me started on House Advantage vs. Hold Percentage!
February 5th, 2011 at 1:33:50 PM
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Actually, you understand it perfectly.
"this is not allowed" says it all. for player's bet, of course
For tip bet, the casino doesn't care whether it's a 10.11% HA or 26.06% dealer's advantage.
Remember the casino and the dealers are on the same side, for that matter.
"this is not allowed" says it all. for player's bet, of course
For tip bet, the casino doesn't care whether it's a 10.11% HA or 26.06% dealer's advantage.
Remember the casino and the dealers are on the same side, for that matter.
winning streaks come and go, losing streak never ends.
February 5th, 2011 at 1:37:49 PM
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Quote: Larrymac
How can there be such a drastic change in the HA with just this change in strategy?
I guess you didn't realize how drastic "this change in strategy" is.
If it was allowed, it would mean you can play your ant only (not fold) without make the PLAY bet.
winning streaks come and go, losing streak never ends.
February 5th, 2011 at 1:47:08 PM
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Does anyone have a MEANINGFUL answer?
Although I still think there is a typo or I am misinterpreting the second Q/A. Why would the house allow a bet with a 26% disadvantage? The house is NOT on the dealer's side in this case. This would have a major impact on the overall hold of the game. Don't get me started on hold percentage vs. house advantage again!
Although I still think there is a typo or I am misinterpreting the second Q/A. Why would the house allow a bet with a 26% disadvantage? The house is NOT on the dealer's side in this case. This would have a major impact on the overall hold of the game. Don't get me started on hold percentage vs. house advantage again!
Don't get me started on House Advantage vs. Hold Percentage!
February 5th, 2011 at 2:41:34 PM
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Yes -
1. Always play the tip on the ANTE - it'll add up better.
2. It doesn't really add up to much against the house - unless some player is betting the ANTE for you at great sums on every deal. Have you EVER seen a player tip like this at any casino aside from the High-limit room at Caesars Palace?
3. Floormen frequently don't know or don't care about the math, or don't mind if dealers got some tips to make a living. They were once dealers too.
4. It's more obvious of an advantage play if the player is selectively adding the tip bet on the PLAY bet when he has an ace or better hand, and not on a King or Queen-high hand. If he sticks with the ANTE only bet, it looks kosher to the floor.
5. If the player bets the ante for you, you'll usually double that money and drop it as a tip. If he bets the Pair Plus for you, 79% of the time the dealer can kiss it goodbye.
1. Always play the tip on the ANTE - it'll add up better.
2. It doesn't really add up to much against the house - unless some player is betting the ANTE for you at great sums on every deal. Have you EVER seen a player tip like this at any casino aside from the High-limit room at Caesars Palace?
3. Floormen frequently don't know or don't care about the math, or don't mind if dealers got some tips to make a living. They were once dealers too.
4. It's more obvious of an advantage play if the player is selectively adding the tip bet on the PLAY bet when he has an ace or better hand, and not on a King or Queen-high hand. If he sticks with the ANTE only bet, it looks kosher to the floor.
5. If the player bets the ante for you, you'll usually double that money and drop it as a tip. If he bets the Pair Plus for you, 79% of the time the dealer can kiss it goodbye.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
