Uth: Nothing on WoO about Ultimate Pairs sucker bet?
January 27th, 2025 at 5:56:20 PM
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Wiz,
Something new for you to calc. :)
It's called "Ultimate Pairs"
Note:
The $10 min in the pic is for Ante
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
January 27th, 2025 at 6:09:48 PM
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Interestingly, AT does not win.
What would be the return if ATo paid 5:1 and ATs paid 20:1?
I've seen players get disappointed when AT doesn't win when they're so used to AT being paid in Black Jack.
Anyone guess why the designer of this sucker bet left out AT as a winning hand when people are used to AT winning in BJ?
What would be the return if ATo paid 5:1 and ATs paid 20:1?
I've seen players get disappointed when AT doesn't win when they're so used to AT being paid in Black Jack.
Anyone guess why the designer of this sucker bet left out AT as a winning hand when people are used to AT winning in BJ?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
January 27th, 2025 at 7:48:52 PM
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Thanks. Here is my analysis. 8.9% house edge.
| Event | Pays | Combinations | Probability | Return |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pair aces | 30 | 6 | 0.004525 | 0.135747 |
| A/K suited | 25 | 4 | 0.003017 | 0.075415 |
| AJ or AQ suited | 20 | 8 | 0.006033 | 0.120664 |
| AK unsuited | 15 | 12 | 0.00905 | 0.135747 |
| JJ, QQ, KK | 10 | 18 | 0.013575 | 0.135747 |
| AJ or AQ unsuited | 5 | 24 | 0.0181 | 0.090498 |
| 22 to 10,10 | 3 | 54 | 0.040724 | 0.122172 |
| All other | -1 | 1200 | 0.904977 | -0.904977 |
| Total | 1326 | 1 | -0.088989 |
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
January 28th, 2025 at 12:17:25 AM
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Quote: 100xOddsInterestingly, AT does not win.
What would be the return if ATo paid 5:1 and ATs paid 20:1?
I've seen players get disappointed when AT doesn't win when they're so used to AT being paid in Black Jack.
Anyone guess why the designer of this sucker bet left out AT as a winning hand when people are used to AT winning in BJ?
link to original post
Adding AT to the respective AJ/AQ payouts (+4 suited and +12 unsuited) yields a Player edge of ~1.64%.
It’s a dog eat dog world.
…Or maybe it’s the other way around!
January 28th, 2025 at 3:45:08 AM
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Quote: camaplQuote: 100xOddsInterestingly, AT does not win.
What would be the return if ATo paid 5:1 and ATs paid 20:1?
I've seen players get disappointed when AT doesn't win when they're so used to AT being paid in Black Jack.
Anyone guess why the designer of this sucker bet left out AT as a winning hand when people are used to AT winning in BJ?
link to original post
Adding AT to the respective AJ/AQ payouts (+4 suited and +12 unsuited) yields a Player edge of ~1.64%.
link to original post
oh wow.. never imagined a 10% swing.
how about ATo-AKo paid 5:1, ATs-AQs paid 15:1, AKs paid 25:1 and TT-KK paid 10:1?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
January 28th, 2025 at 5:10:17 AM
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that a pair of aces can disappoint due to difficulty of improvement, while AK Suited starts low in value as is, but has good chances of improvement, is well known to poker players in such games as Holdem.Quote: WizardThanks. Here is my analysis. 8.9% house edge.
Event Pays Combinations Probability Return Pair aces 30 6 0.004525 0.135747 A/K suited 25 4 0.003017 0.075415 AJ or AQ suited 20 8 0.006033 0.120664 AK unsuited 15 12 0.00905 0.135747 JJ, QQ, KK 10 18 0.013575 0.135747 AJ or AQ unsuited 5 24 0.0181 0.090498 22 to 10,10 3 54 0.040724 0.122172 All other -1 1200 0.904977 -0.904977 Total 1326 1 -0.088989
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However, as this shows, AK Suited is a more rare starting hand too. Didn't know that.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
January 28th, 2025 at 7:05:24 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitthat a pair of aces can disappoint due to difficulty of improvement, while AK Suited starts low in value as is, but has good chances of improvement, is well known to poker players in such games as Holdem.Quote: WizardThanks. Here is my analysis. 8.9% house edge.
Event Pays Combinations Probability Return Pair aces 30 6 0.004525 0.135747 A/K suited 25 4 0.003017 0.075415 AJ or AQ suited 20 8 0.006033 0.120664 AK unsuited 15 12 0.00905 0.135747 JJ, QQ, KK 10 18 0.013575 0.135747 AJ or AQ unsuited 5 24 0.0181 0.090498 22 to 10,10 3 54 0.040724 0.122172 All other -1 1200 0.904977 -0.904977 Total 1326 1 -0.088989
link to original post
However, as this shows, AK Suited is a more rare starting hand too. Didn't know that.
link to original post
If your first card is an A, there are three more aces to give you pocket AA but only one suited K to give you suited AK.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
January 28th, 2025 at 8:56:16 AM
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This story is not complete though. You may get a suited AK by starting with a K too. That is a lot more chance.
January 28th, 2025 at 9:32:23 AM
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Quote: acesideThis story is not complete though. You may get a suited AK by starting with a K too. That is a lot more chance.
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Fair. More complete version:
There are 4 ways to make suited AK and 6 ways to make a pair of aces.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
January 28th, 2025 at 10:14:12 AM
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Quote: 100xOddsQuote: camaplQuote: 100xOddsInterestingly, AT does not win.
What would be the return if ATo paid 5:1 and ATs paid 20:1?
I've seen players get disappointed when AT doesn't win when they're so used to AT being paid in Black Jack.
Anyone guess why the designer of this sucker bet left out AT as a winning hand when people are used to AT winning in BJ?
link to original post
Adding AT to the respective AJ/AQ payouts (+4 suited and +12 unsuited) yields a Player edge of ~1.64%.
link to original post
oh wow.. never imagined a 10% swing.
how about ATo-AKo paid 5:1, ATs-AQs paid 15:1, AKs paid 25:1 and TT-KK paid 10:1?
link to original post
Last one… 😄 Your scenario above yields a return of -7.27%.
It’s a dog eat dog world.
…Or maybe it’s the other way around!
January 28th, 2025 at 5:21:37 PM
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are you all sure this is only played with one deck of cards?
January 28th, 2025 at 6:10:58 PM
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What about the 1000-1 player and dealer AA version?
January 28th, 2025 at 9:37:27 PM
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Yeah, the paytable in the first post sometimes has a 1000:1 payout for AA vs dealer AA.
There are also these simpler pay tables:
There are also these simpler pay tables:
| Hand | Paytable 3 | Paytable 4 | Paytable 5 | Paytable 6 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Two Red Aces | --- | 100 to 1 | 50 to 1 | --- |
| Two Aces | 30 to 1 | 30 to 1 | 25 to 1 | 25 to 1 |
| Ace Face Suited | 20 to 1 | 20 to 1 | 20 to 1 | 20 to 1 |
| Ace Face | 10 to 1 | 10 to 1 | 10 to 1 | 10 to 1 |
| Pair | 5 to 1 | 4 to 1 | 5 to 1 | 5 to 1 |
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
January 29th, 2025 at 1:35:12 AM
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Quote: JoeTheDragonWhat about the 1000-1 player and dealer AA version?
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This side bet is the same as on Texas Holdem Bonus. The Wizard has a table with the 1000-1 payout
Happy days are here again
January 29th, 2025 at 2:31:06 PM
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Quote: camaplQuote: 100xOddsQuote: camaplQuote: 100xOddsInterestingly, AT does not win.
What would be the return if ATo paid 5:1 and ATs paid 20:1?
I've seen players get disappointed when AT doesn't win when they're so used to AT being paid in Black Jack.
Anyone guess why the designer of this sucker bet left out AT as a winning hand when people are used to AT winning in BJ?
link to original post
Adding AT to the respective AJ/AQ payouts (+4 suited and +12 unsuited) yields a Player edge of ~1.64%.
link to original post
oh wow.. never imagined a 10% swing.
how about ATo-AKo paid 5:1, ATs-AQs paid 15:1, AKs paid 25:1 and TT-KK paid 10:1?
link to original post
Last one… 😄 Your scenario above yields a return of -7.27%.
link to original post
Thx
Wow, adding AT and TT but reducing the suited version to 15:1 swings it back 10+% the other way.
(Your previous calc was only ATo and ATs without the higher payout for TT)
So this payout still has a high HE but is less confusing/disappointing to people who are used to AT winning in Blackjack.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
January 29th, 2025 at 2:33:24 PM
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Quote: DeucekiesYeah, the paytable in the first post sometimes has a 1000:1 payout for AA vs dealer AA.
There are also these simpler pay tables:
Hand Paytable 3 Paytable 4 Paytable 5 Paytable 6 Two Red Aces --- 100 to 1 50 to 1 --- Two Aces 30 to 1 30 to 1 25 to 1 25 to 1 Ace Face Suited 20 to 1 20 to 1 20 to 1 20 to 1 Ace Face 10 to 1 10 to 1 10 to 1 10 to 1 Pair 5 to 1 4 to 1 5 to 1 5 to 1
link to original post
Interesting.. Another sidebet that uses Ace Face instead of Ace Ten.
Why don't these sidebet creators take into account that people are used to AT winning in blackjack?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
January 29th, 2025 at 11:27:00 PM
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Quote: 100xOddsQuote: DeucekiesYeah, the paytable in the first post sometimes has a 1000:1 payout for AA vs dealer AA.
There are also these simpler pay tables:
Hand Paytable 3 Paytable 4 Paytable 5 Paytable 6 Two Red Aces --- 100 to 1 50 to 1 --- Two Aces 30 to 1 30 to 1 25 to 1 25 to 1 Ace Face Suited 20 to 1 20 to 1 20 to 1 20 to 1 Ace Face 10 to 1 10 to 1 10 to 1 10 to 1 Pair 5 to 1 4 to 1 5 to 1 5 to 1
link to original post
Interesting.. Another sidebet that uses Ace Face instead of Ace Ten.
Why don't these sidebet creators take into account that people are used to AT winning in blackjack?
link to original post
Because the game has nothing to do with blackjack. That's like saying 7-2 should be a winner because it's a natural nine in baccarat.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
January 30th, 2025 at 7:27:52 AM
permalink
Quote: DeucekiesQuote: 100xOddsQuote: DeucekiesYeah, the paytable in the first post sometimes has a 1000:1 payout for AA vs dealer AA.
There are also these simpler pay tables:
Hand Paytable 3 Paytable 4 Paytable 5 Paytable 6 Two Red Aces --- 100 to 1 50 to 1 --- Two Aces 30 to 1 30 to 1 25 to 1 25 to 1 Ace Face Suited 20 to 1 20 to 1 20 to 1 20 to 1 Ace Face 10 to 1 10 to 1 10 to 1 10 to 1 Pair 5 to 1 4 to 1 5 to 1 5 to 1
link to original post
Interesting.. Another sidebet that uses Ace Face instead of Ace Ten.
Why don't these sidebet creators take into account that people are used to AT winning in blackjack?
link to original post
Because the game has nothing to do with blackjack. That's like saying 7-2 should be a winner because it's a natural nine in baccarat.
link to original post
Lots of gamblers know how to play blackjack. They all know being dealt 21 in your 1st 2 cards is an instant win (if the dealer doesnt also have 21).
maybe 1% of them know how to play bacc.
So when you design a game, you don;t take into account another game, even if a majority of your audience knows it?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
January 30th, 2025 at 10:20:01 AM
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Quote: DeucekiesQuote: 100xOddsQuote: DeucekiesYeah, the paytable in the first post sometimes has a 1000:1 payout for AA vs dealer AA.
There are also these simpler pay tables:
Hand Paytable 3 Paytable 4 Paytable 5 Paytable 6 Two Red Aces --- 100 to 1 50 to 1 --- Two Aces 30 to 1 30 to 1 25 to 1 25 to 1 Ace Face Suited 20 to 1 20 to 1 20 to 1 20 to 1 Ace Face 10 to 1 10 to 1 10 to 1 10 to 1 Pair 5 to 1 4 to 1 5 to 1 5 to 1
link to original post
Interesting.. Another sidebet that uses Ace Face instead of Ace Ten.
Why don't these sidebet creators take into account that people are used to AT winning in blackjack?
link to original post
Because the game has nothing to do with blackjack. That's like saying 7-2 should be a winner because it's a natural nine in baccarat.
link to original post
Of course 7-2 should be a winner. That’s the hammer!
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
