Mississippi Stud

I was wondering how many of you out there have any experience with Mississippi Stud. Boot Hill Casino in Dodge City, KS added it recently (it replaced Pai Gow Poker.) I've played it twice now, and done fairly well both times (ended up winning over $100 each night.) It seems to me with its low element of risk (1.37 according to the Wizard) and the possibilities of player collusion (the 2nd time I played all of us were blatantly showing our cards to each other and the dealer did nothing to stop us-there were at least a couple of hands that I would normally have bet on that I folded because I knew other players had some of the cards I needed) that this game could give players a better chance to win than many other games. So, can anyone else tell me about either wins or losses with this game? Thanks.

I've only played a little bit, maybe 2 hours total. My favorite card-room has long waits for poker sometimes, and I've played maybe 2 hours of MS Stud while waiting to be seated in the poker room. My experience has been mixed. On the one hand, the variance is huge. You'll have lots of little losses and some big wins. On the other hand, the wins get really big really fast. Last time I played, I turned pocket aces into a full boat (board was JJJ) and another player had the case jack. We pretty much cleaned out the center of the tray on that one.

That has been my experience so far. Several small losses or pushes, but one or two wins big enough to not only make up for the losses but end up with a nice (for me anyway, I'm not greedy) win. And I've been smart enough to walk away soon enough after the wins to keep the next round of small losses from eating it all back up.

deleted

Well, this is definitely now my favorite game. I played again last night/early this morning, and was pretty much up and down most of the night. At one point I was down about $250-$260, and was about to quite, when I made a couple of decent hands, including trips, to get me back in it. I went from that far down to being up about $150, and then lost for a little while, went down about $50 or so, and then back up to maybe just down $20. I had played for over 4 hours and all of us at the table were having a lot of fun while doing it, which is why I stayed as long as I did. Finally, at about 3:20 am, a pit boss came over and told the dealer to only go 3 more hands after the hand being dealt (there were 4 of us playing, but this casino-Boot Hill Casino in Dodge City, Kansas-closes down everything but a couple of blackjack tables around 3 or so in the morning, regardless of how may players are there.) I lost that hand, and then pushed on the next one, leaving 2 hands left. The next to last hand, I got pocket 7s, so I went ahead and bet 3x on each street since I was guaranteed to at least push, so I had a total of $50 out (the table minimum is $5 on the ante, and the max is $10). The first card turned over didn't help me (don't even remember what it was now.) The next card was a 7, which guaranteed me at least $150 (3-1). I told the dealer that the next card needed to be a 7 also. Sure enough, he turns it over and the final 7 appears, giving me quad 7s and a 40-1 payout of $2,000. This is by far my biggest win ever, and was quite a thrill. (It had been a very hot table all night long, with one couple leaving with at least $500 or so, and I was actually the second person that night to get quads.)

Now I realize that this won't happen too often, but it does show that if you play correctly and minimize your losses, you can at least stay in this game for a long time and have a shot at the really big payout.

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UNBELIEVABLE!

I dealt Mississippi Stud.. Great table. Everybody was positive. I think that is mainly because unlike games like blackjack where it is player hand lost to dealer heand.. it's simply player hand lost.

I got tipped over 2,000$ for an 11.5 hour shift. I was getting tossed quarters.. people were putting up 10$ crew bets on the ante... crazyness.

But here.

Player buy in for 200$. Bets between 10-20$ on ante.. Ran it up to 900$. Gave it all back. Buys in for 100$ and loses it.. This happened 6 times... Buys in for another 100$. So player is in for 900$ total.

This guy caught two no brainers in a row that turned into 3 of a kind. Then started betting strictly 25$ ante... and he WOULD NOT FOLD ANY HAND. He would play 2-4 off suit.. all the way. No joking. Most of the time he was just giving away 100$ playing like that. He would get lucky and end up catching a pair here or there.. but had he played optimumally he would be up EASILY another 1,000$ .. he was getting lucky with his quality hands. Like KQ.. he would catch two pair.. etc.. but like.. he would not fold at all.

After some back and forth...he got 88 that turned into 888JJ. 2,500$ nice. he kept playing.

3 hours after the big full house hand.. he had 3,260$

Declares, "this is my last hand".. Put ups 25$ ante (10$ crew bet) 75$-75$-75$ in the blind

the community cards: A - A - A

full table. Nobody had an Ace. We KNEW he had to have the Ace. --- but he ended up having 9-2...

WOW.. What a run!

Is my math correct when I calculate...

If 5 players with 2 cards did not have an ace.
3 community cards were all aces.

There 1 ace left in deck.. and the player that went blind.. has a 2/39 shot (little better than 5%) at having the case ace for 4 of a kind.

wow... better than a 1/20 shot at 10,000$ with a 9-2 off suit... the tapes would have been examined for a LONG time on that one.

do any casinos in pennsylvania or connecticut have mississippi stud?

Quote: mrstud52

do any casinos in pennsylvania or connecticut have mississippi stud?

New table games in PA need to be OK'd by some gaming board; I haven't seen Mississippi Stud mentioned in any online news articles related to that, and I try to look for that stuff. Not saying I'm certain, but I haven't seen it up for consideration. Looking at the websites of all the PA casinos, none of them list Mississippi.

You can mess around with it for free at http://www.mississippi-stud.com/. My experience is that you either lose all your money very quickly, or hit big and fast; not much in between.

besides barona, what casinos have mississippi stud in california?

i will be in washington state for first time....do any of the casinos have mississippi stud?

Might get a chance to play this game in a few weeks.

Wizard nor any others seem to be mentioning a side bet. If that is the case I'll be ready to play for sure, the pressure to play the side bets [which I can handle] does take away a bit of the fun. Looks like the variance is plenty high without any such.

So, can anyone confirm this can be expected?

MS has the three card bonus ala pair plus and a $1 progressive. Not to mention the Caesars properties with the six card bonus.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

MS has the three card bonus ala pair plus and a $1 progressive. Not to mention the Caesars properties with the six card bonus.

uh oh, LOL.

Where does the 6th card come from?

Quote: odiousgambit

uh oh, LOL.

Where does the 6th card come from?

It's a cross-table bonus that CET offers on SHFL poker-based games. They deal however many extra cards are necessary off the top of the deck, and hold them until last. It has to be a single-deck game.

UTH they deal 4 cards.
3 Card Poker they use dealer+player hands.
MissStud they deal 1 extra or 4 extra (can't remember which they use) and either add the 1 to dealer+player, or add 4 to Player.
There are other games they have it on; I think both Crazy4 and 4 card poker, among others.

On all tables, it's a flat $5 bet.

Quote: beachbumbabs

It's a cross-table bonus that CET offers on SHFL poker-based games. They deal however many extra cards are necessary off the top of the deck, and hold them until last. It has to be a single-deck game.

UTH they deal 4 cards.
3 Card Poker they use dealer+player hands.
MissStud they deal 1 extra or 4 extra (can't remember which they use) and either add the 1 to dealer+player, or add 4 to Player.
There are other games they have it on; I think both Crazy4 and 4 card poker, among others.

On all tables, it's a flat $5 bet.

Thanks.

Is the standard deviation known? Seems like I might have seen that somewhere, but can't find it now.

Quote: beachbumbabs

It's a cross-table bonus that CET offers on SHFL poker-based games. They deal however many extra cards are necessary off the top of the deck, and hold them until last. It has to be a single-deck game.

UTH they deal 4 cards.
3 Card Poker they use dealer+player hands.
MissStud they deal 1 extra or 4 extra (can't remember which they use) and either add the 1 to dealer+player, or add 4 to Player.
There are other games they have it on; I think both Crazy4 and 4 card poker, among others.

On all tables, it's a flat $5 bet.

The process for the six-card bet at CET tables is the same on UTH, Texas Hold'Em Bonus and Mississippi Stud. First four cards from the deck are set aside. Hands are settled later after the main game has been played.

Let It Ride does the same with three cards set aside.

Crazy 4 has a single card set aside. One of the more disappointing versions of this bet . . . so often you are drawing dead. At least the other games you can turn your crap hand into something decent. I don't often play the bet, but did turn a 7-2 offsuit fold in Mississippi Stud into 4 Deuces earlier this year. First hand of the trip, too!

Another note - most tables, you must play every other bet on the table to play the six card. For Mississippi stud, CET tables have the 3-Card bet on the community cards that must also be played.

Last note . . . there are still some locations in Vegas that are paying the $1 million on the Six Card Diamond Royal. Most have scaled it back to $100,000 for any 6 card Royal.

Quote: mrstud52

besides barona, what casinos have mississippi stud in california?

The card casinos have it -- Commerce, for sure has it. My son hit a royal there for $20,000 which was the table max and he was betting black chips. If he had only known a royal was coming.

Rincon has it. I think Pechanga might have it and even Pala.

It wouldnt surprise me if Bicycle has it.

Quote: AlanMendelson

...My son hit a royal there for $20,000 which was the table max and he was betting black chips...

He didn't raise with his 3 and 4 card royal like he's supposed to or was the $20,000 the aggregate?

He was betting black chips. So $100 on the ante and $300 in each position. The max payout for the table was $20,000 but he kept betting 3X $100 because at best he thought he could draw a flush. He didn't know it was a royal, obviously, until the third card from the dealer.

Had he known a royal was coming he wouldn't have bet so much because he still would have hit the table max.

That's what I thought. He ran into the aggregate payout.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

That's what I thought. He ran into the aggregate payout.

...and they say high-rollers get the better returning games.

Quote: Mission146

...and they say high-rollers get the better returning games.

Yeah...That's the lowest aggregate I've heard of.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Yeah...That's the lowest aggregate I've heard of.

Article Time!

Honestly, if there is one, "Standard," casino concept I despise, it is that of the Maximum Aggregate Payout. The players effectively play with a higher house edge, I don't think people can be expected to (mental math) identify the maximum bet they should be making while still enjoying the lowest house edge on the game, the Optimal Strategy itself could theoretically change in some cases, and even if it doesn't, you're still playing with a higher house edge by way of not getting paid in full.

It would be much preferable for the casino to lower the Table Max to a maximum theoretical loss that they find more tolerable, or alternatively, to construct a different paytable thereby resulting in a maximum loss that they deem tolerable. The problem is that they want all of the benefits of offering a larger Min-Max spread, but they don't want the repercussions of a potentially huge payout on a single hand. And that, my friend, is not gambling, which is what casinos are supposed to be doing. (Albeit with an edge)

I think they should be illegal. If the layout says I get paid 1000 to 1, I expect 1000 to 1. No less.

Jason said that had he gotten the same royal at Rincon it would have paid fifty-thousand and at Barona it would have been 400-thousand.

At Chumash near Santa Barbara I think it also would have been 400-thousand or 200-thousand.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Jason said that had he gotten the same royal at Rincon it would have paid fifty-thousand and at Barona it would have been 400-thousand.

At Chumash near Santa Barbara I think it also would have been 400-thousand or 200-thousand.

Most aggregates are $50,000 that I've seen.

Why did he raise on his first two cards though? Not supposed to unless dealt 6's though Aces.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Most aggregates are $50,000 that I've seen.

Why did he raise on his first two cards though? Not supposed to unless dealt 6's though Aces.

Not supposed to raise a two Royal, but you do raise any inside pair, 2's-5's included.

Quote: Mission146

Not supposed to raise a two Royal, but you do raise any inside pair, 2's-5's included.

Yep, you're right. I forgot. I'm so used to playing this game with information and you don't raise those unless you trip up :-)

I'd like some information! I played it live exactly three times in my life...first time I quit after the first hand when I was dealt a pair of 5's and lost. Second time I won almost two hundred, third time I pushed the first hand and lost the second, so I quit.

Definitely was not supposed to raise on his first hand, if you have a pair of any kind you can't wind up with a flush or straight [never mind whether royal] - so he didn't have a pair

a royal with 5 cards, no discard/draw, no wild cards, wow

I literally have never seen one playing poker for some 45 years with 5-8 players at the table, and that is with 7 cards, or draw poker

with wild cards, sure, seen plenty

I grant you I play poker infrequently

PS: 500 to one, the regular payoff, considering, can't be anything like a fair bet?

PPS:

Quote: Poker probability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "probability" of drawing a given hand is calculated by dividing the number of ways of drawing the hand ("Frequency") by the total number of 5-card hands (the sample space; ). For example, there are 4 different ways to draw a Royal flush (one for each suit), so the probability is 4/2,598,960, or about 0.00000154%.

that's @ one in 649,740 [edited-the % mark does not belong there, will try to edit at wikipedia]. I'm not sure what the effect is of having the player keep increasing the bet on it though

PPPS: edited at wikipedia, some a-hole may come along and change it back? hopefully I did not compound the error

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_probability

I've seen three on MS. The first two at Motorcity and they were within two weeks! No they weren't mine.

BTW, anyone want to give us the EV for raising 3x vs 1x with two royal cards?

Quote: Mission146

I'd like some information! I played it live exactly three times in my life...first time I quit after the first hand when I was dealt a pair of 5's and lost. Second time I won almost two hundred, third time I pushed the first hand and lost the second, so I quit.

well, check out the internet, there's this Wizard of Odds guy that .... wait, you know that ! LOL

I'll have a chance to play soon ... several days away though. Hope to anyway.

I feel a little trepidation since I keep winning on the free game here. Over and over again. You know what that means. Doomed! But I'll try to give it a fling if the minimum is reasonable.

OG,

IBYA was referring to hole-carding, I played the game already knowing the Optimal Strategy.

Quote: odiousgambit

Might get a chance to play this game in a few weeks.

Wizard nor any others seem to be mentioning a side bet. If that is the case I'll be ready to play for sure, the pressure to play the side bets [which I can handle] does take away a bit of the fun. Looks like the variance is plenty high without any such.

So, can anyone confirm this can be expected?

Of all the carnival games, Mississippi is the one where you never seem get side-eye for not playing the side bets.

About 6 months ago Mrs and I were at Rivers in Pittsburgh, and I sat down to play Mississippi. I bought in and said, "no whites." (There was a progressive meter, and it wasn't very high, around $15k.) Then, placing my bet, I didn't play the 3 Cards, and the dealer said, "You never know, it might be a straight flush." And of course, the first three cards were 7-8-9 of spades. About 90 minutes later I pointed out that there wasn't another straight or flush since then, and only a few pairs. Everyone shrugged and the game continued.

Quote: odiousgambit

PPS:
that's @ one in 649,740 [edited-the % mark does not belong there, will try to edit at wikipedia]. I'm not sure what the effect is of having the player keep increasing the bet on it though

PPPS: edited at wikipedia, some a-hole may come along and change it back? hopefully I did not compound the error

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_probability

I fixed it again. My first ever Wikipedia edit.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I've seen three on MS. The first two at Motorcity and they were within two weeks! No they weren't mine.

BTW, anyone want to give us the EV for raising 3x vs 1x with two royal cards?

Assuming you won't bump into the aggregate:
Average change in EV of 1x vs 3x : -0.1684693
Overall change in EV: -0.00508203

Quote: miplet

I fixed it again. My first ever Wikipedia edit.

%$@*$# ... I assume I went in the wrong direction with the decimal point LOL

you have dipped your toe into a world you can get addicted to, editing at Wikipedia. Some of it is frustrating, some of it just 'meh'. But sometimes you realize you have contributed something that might last for posterity. That's the addicting part.

Quote: Mission146

Article Time!

Greetings!

I promised a Rant, a vehement Tirade, as it were, against Maximum Aggregate Payouts...and here it is:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/Casino-MAPs/

Quote: Mission146

Greetings!

I promised a Rant, a vehement Tirade, as it were, against Maximum Aggregate Payouts...and here it is:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/Casino-MAPs/

I've always considered aggregate table limits a reminder to not bet more than $10 per spot at these games. Have they gone down to $25k and $20k, as mentioned in the article? Everywhere I've played, $50k seems to be the standard number.

Also, progressive and side bet jackpots are never lumped with the base game. If you think they might be, ask.

Quote: Mosca

I've always considered aggregate table limits a reminder to not bet more than $10 per spot at these games. Have they gone down to $25k and $20k, as mentioned in the article? Everywhere I've played, $50k seems to be the standard number.

Also, progressive and side bet jackpots are never lumped with the base game. If you think they might be, ask.

To the first paragraph, yes I've seen it, but 50k seems to be the normal.

To the second. I was basing my statement on an Ask the Wizard question in which Wizard appeared to have spoken to two casino reps who both indicated that it went by Side and Main bet.

Hello All,
I didnt see it from quick scan of earlier posts.
Which Wizard-approved Onlice casinos offers Mississippi Stud table game pls?
Thanks in Advance.

Sorry, new to site and don't know the best way to get my question answered. Anyway, my favorite casino just got Mississippi Stud.
Saw on various sites the house edge is 4.91% and the element of risk is 1.37%. Can someone pls explain what "element of risk" is (I've never heard it before). Is this a playable game given the high house edge? Any other info is also appreciated. Thx.

Quote: rickbow

Sorry, new to site and don't know the best way to get my question answered. Anyway, my favorite casino just got Mississippi Stud.
Saw on various sites the house edge is 4.91% and the element of risk is 1.37%. Can someone pls explain what "element of risk" is (I've never heard it before). Is this a playable game given the high house edge? Any other info is also appreciated. Thx.

rickbow,

On the Wizard of Odds Mississippi Stud page, see:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/mississippi-stud/

you'll find the following explanation of "element of risk" (a term coined incidentally by the WoO):

"On average, the player will bet 3.59 units per hand. The ratio of the expected loss to total amount bet, what I call the "element of risk," is 4.91%/3.59 = 1.37%."

Also at the WoO's site you'll find a very nice Basic Strategy card and a trainer where you can play free MSS and have the program correct your strategy errors.free

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Quote: rickbow

Sorry, new to site and don't know the best way to get my question answered. Anyway, my favorite casino just got Mississippi Stud.
Saw on various sites the house edge is 4.91% and the element of risk is 1.37%. Can someone pls explain what "element of risk" is (I've never heard it before). Is this a playable game given the high house edge? Any other info is also appreciated. Thx.

Hi, rickbow, and welcome! doghand offered good info above.

In general:

House Edge was developed to contrast and compare games that only had one (ante) bet all of or most of the time. You place a bet, something happens, you win, lose, or draw.

One bet all of the time resolved games:

Craps
Roulette
Baccarat
Pai Gow Poker or Tiles

One bet most of the time games:

Blackjack (you add money only to your ante on double or split hands).

Those can be well-represented with an HE calculation. So the formula ONLY uses the ante/single bet.

However, virtually ALL the poker-based games require you to back up your ante bet with more money, or fold. This started with Caribbean Stud, and includes 3 card poker, all the Texas hold'ems, and Mississippi Stud, many others. So the HE is inadequate in figuring your true risk.

EOR is calculated by figuring out the average number of units you will bet to play the game according to optimal strategy.

In MS Stud, you ante. The dealer gives you 2 cards. You either fold or bet 1-3 units to continue. The dealer shows you a card. Fold or bet 1-3 units. Dealer shows you a .card, fold or bet 1-3 units. Dealer shows last card, THEN you win or lose at least 4 units (ante+3 raises) if you haven't already folded.

But the HE on MS Stud, using the HE formula, would only count the ante amount. Which throws it wildly out of a playable range compared to other HE games above. The EOR calculation shows a truer risk comparison, which puts it in range of a craps pass line bet or a mediocre blackjack game. With a LOT more volatility (swings to your bankroll) than either of those games. So high adrenaline, crazier ride, to get to the same place IN THE LONG RUN.

Personally, it's too volatile for me. Can't stand dumping money into that game waiting for a big strike. But I have several friends who love it. So whatever floats your boat, right?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Personally, it's too volatile for me. Can't stand dumping money into that game waiting for a big strike. But I have several friends who love it. So whatever floats your boat, right?

I’ve played it where I lost all my money without ever winning a hand. And I’ve played it where I doubled up in ten hands. Very rarely have I gone back and forth around the center. Once or twice, but it isn’t common. You are more likely to lose 2/3 of your stake, then win almost all of it back on one or two hands.

Like Babs says, it’s a low-edge game for volatility freaks. Skip the Pairs Plus bet: 7.5% HE/EoR. Skip the progressive, that will chew you up. You aren’t getting a Royal.

Forums are for offering opinions, and I have a different opinion about House Edge (HE) and Element of Risk (EOR.) I definitely do NOT agree with Babs or the Wizard that "EOR provides a truer risk comparison," especially in Miss Stud. Quite the opposite. I regard the creation of the EOR parameter as Shackleford's Folly.

You go up to the Miss Stud table, and your plan is to make $10 your unit bet -your first round bet. What will be the statistically average cost of playing each MSStud hand? It is the House Edge, 4.91% multiplied by your first round bet, $10. So the average loss per hand will be 49.1 cents. That is clear actionable information expressed in a way that we all understand. The House Edge parameter is demonstrably useful in helping gamblers to select a game.

Now, MissStud is a game in which you will lose about 75% of your hands, so how is a house edge as low as 4.91% achieved? In several ways, but largely the House Edge is reduced to 4.91% by allowing you to bet more when you are certain you are going to win (or at least certain you are not going to lose.)

Example: You are dealt a high pair JJ-AA, which is a guaranteed winner. So, your immediate action is to put out $100 for all four rounds. You aren't truly "wagering" the additional $90 at that point, because you have a guaranteed winner with a prospect of getting an even higher payout on the $100 if you improve your hand. It is the game designer's way of rewarding you for having a very good hand; he could have used a higher payout ratio in the MSStud paytable to reward a high pair but instead he also allows you to increase your bet to 3X in each round.

You had no intention, when you approached the table, of betting $100 per hand. You weren't searching the casino seeking to wager $100 at an "element of risk of 1.37%." That's silly, it's nonsense, its not the way that gamblers select a game and approach decisions. The wretched, horrible truth about Miss Stud, that many players don't like, is that you bet $10 with the expectation that 75% of the time you will be stuck losing $20, $30, $40 or more.. But somehow, Michael Shackleford conjured up the notion that that scenario is a virtue of MSSTud because basic strategy requires you to bet a lot more money in order to lose 49.1 cents a hand.

When an EOR is much less than the HE it means that with correct play you are going to be wagering far more of your money than your initial bet - with far more volatility and much greater risk of ruin. A low EOR is often a terrible thing for a game to have. I repeat, a low EOR is often what decent people fear in the night - it is ruin. It is a wretched, unwelcome by-blow of Satan.

Clearly, Michael Shackelford is an honorable excellent intelligent person of considerable achievement and stature in his field. He is the jolly, benevolent leader of a community of like-minded people (well, not like-minded when it comes to politics.) But, in what may be one of his worst moments, he has done an evil awful (but, admittedly minor) mis-service to the gambling community by defining the Element of Risk parameter and insisting that a game with low EOR is a benefit to the average gambler.

Imagine that Mississippi Stud had been designed as a game in which a player is limited to bet 1X the unit bet (or otherwise FOLD) each round, without the ability to bet 3X the unit bet each round, and in which the HE of 4.9% was achieved by a higher payout ratio on the winning hands -then it would have had the same HE and a higher EOR than the current version but been essentially the same game. The lower EOR of the existing MSStud game signifies no real world benefit or virtue in comparison to the imaginary game version I just defined.

And to somehow conjure up the fantastic statement that House Edge is not useful or less useful than EOR -when House Edge tells you how much your average loss will be for each hand - is just bone-deep wrong.

Mark Twain defined three types of falsehood -lies, damned lies and statistics. EOR is a false hope.

Quote: gordonm888

Forums are for offering opinions, and I have a different opinion about House Edge (HE) and Element of Risk (EOR.) I definitely do NOT agree with Babs or the Wizard that "EOR provides a truer risk comparison," especially in Miss Stud. Quite the opposite. I regard the creation of the EOR parameter as Shackleford's Folly.

You go up to the Miss Stud table, and your plan is to make $10 your unit bet -your first round bet. What will be the statistically average cost of playing each MSStud hand? It is the House Edge, 4.91% multiplied by your first round bet, $10. So the average loss per hand will be 49.1 cents. That is clear actionable information expressed in a way that we all understand. The House Edge parameter is demonstrably useful in helping gamblers to select a game.

Now, MissStud is a game in which you will lose about 75% of your hands, so how is a house edge as low as 4.91% achieved? In several ways, but largely the House Edge is reduced to 4.91% by allowing you to bet more when you are certain you are going to win (or at least certain you are not going to lose.)

Example: You are dealt a high pair JJ-AA, which is a guaranteed winner. So, your immediate action is to put out $100 for all four rounds. You aren't truly "wagering" the additional $90 at that point, because you have a guaranteed winner with a prospect of getting an even higher payout on the $100 if you improve your hand. It is the game designer's way of rewarding you for having a very good hand; he could have used a higher payout ratio in the MSStud paytable to reward you, but instead he also allows you to increase your bet to 3X in each round.

You had no intention, when you approached the table, of betting $100 per hand. You weren't searching the casino seeking to wager $100 at an "element of risk of 1.37%." That's silly, it's nonsense, its not the way that gamblers select a game and approach decisions. The wretched, horrible truth about Miss Stud, that many players don't like, is that you bet $10 with the expectation that 75% of the time you will be stuck losing $20, $30, $40 or more.. But somehow, Michael Shackleford conjured up the notion that that scenario is a virtue of MSSTud because you are able to bet a lot more money while only losing 49.1 cents a hand.

When an EOR is much less than the HE it means that with correct play you are going to be wagering far more of your money than your initial bet - with far more volatility and much greater risk of ruin. A low EOR is often a terrible thing for a game to have. I repeat, a low EOR is often what decent people fear in the night - it is ruin. It is a wretched, unwelcome by-blow of Satan.

Clearly, Michael Shackelford is an honorable excellent intelligent person of considerable achievement and stature in his field. He is the jolly, benevolent leader of a community of like-minded people (well, not like-minded when it comes to politics.) But, in what may be one of his worst moments, he has done an evil awful (but, admittedly minor) mis-service to the gambling community by defining the Element of Risk parameter and insisting that a game with low EOR is a benefit to the average gambler.

Imagine that Mississippi Stud had been designed as a game in which a player is limited to bet 1X the unit bet (or otherwise FOLD) each round, without the ability to bet 3X the unit bet each round, and in which the HE of 4.9% was achieved by a higher payout ratio on the winning hands -then it would have had the same HE and a higher EOR than the current version but been essentially the same game. The lower EOR of the existing MSStud game signifies no real world benefit or virtue in comparison to the imaginary game version I just defined.

And to somehow conjure up the fantastic statement that House Edge is not useful or less useful than EOR -when House Edge tells you how much your average loss will be for each hand - is just bone-deep wrong.

Mark Twain defined three types of falsehood -lies, damned lies and statistics. EOR is a false hope.

I'm not going all the way in the weeds with you on your EOR argument, partly because it's beyond my skill level to have an equal debate, partly because I already posted why I like the calculation.

However, you're wrong about the hit rate on MS Stud. You will only WIN anything OR PUSH anything less than 7% of the time. More than 93% of the time, you LOSE 1-8 units. (You have to derive that from the Wizard's probability table, adding up the - EV results in the 2nd right column. -8 is the worst playin optimal strategy, though bad strategy can cost you -10 units. ) And your win rate results will be WORSE than that if you don't know optimal strategy.

Of those win OR push hands, you push slightly more than 1%. So your win rate is just a little over 5%. And about 1/2 of THOSE wins are at even money, accounting for about 2.67% of that 5+%

Winning money on only 1 in 19-20 hands on average is not my idea of fun, especially when half of those are only 1:1. Yuck.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/mississippi-stud/
Look at "MS Stud Return Table" , think it's the 3rd table down.

MS is a game where a $500 bankroll isn’t really enough for a $5 ante. Most players sit down, crack a couple Benjamins on the table, and walk away 10 hands later; the second most common situation is the player putting down $100 and walking away 5 hands later.

I still enjoy it. I can lose 2/3 of my bank and win it all back on two hands. Get that third Jack and it’s $150, hit two pair and it’s $100. Play table minimum and bring enough to weather all the hands that come out 7-3. Don’t play the side bets, if anyone says anything the answer is, “The game’s hard enough with just the five cards.”

Thx Dog Hand.
OK, I now understand how "element of risk" is derived but I'm still confused on what it means.
Is a 1.37% "element of risk" a good thing compared to other games (e.g., blackjack)? All I've ever done is compare the "house edge" of various games to see if I want to play it.
The game looks like fun, but should I play it given the high house edge?
Thx again.